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Sarah Huckabee Sanders can't criminalize librarians just yet

  
Via:  Trout Giggles  •  9 months ago  •  60 comments

By:   Jordan Rubin (MSNBC. com)

Sarah Huckabee Sanders can't criminalize librarians just yet
Arkansas Act 372, a law backed by Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, was temporarily blocked by a judge who suggested it may violate the First Amendment.

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Arkansas State Attorney General Tim Griffin is a a former appointee of the Bush Admin...also Sarahs lackey


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jordan_rubin_1.png Aug. 1, 2023, 1:18 PM UTC

By Jordan Rubin

A law backed by Arkansas Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders that subjects librarians and booksellers to prosecution for providing "harmful" material to minors was set to take effect Tuesday. But it ran into a problem: the First Amendment.

That's according to the federal judge who halted sections of the law from taking effect while litigation plays out, finding they likely fall short under the Constitution.

So, what does the statute do and why is it likely unconstitutional?

Sanders, the former Trump White House press secretary, signed Arkansas Act 372 into law in March. It established a new misdemeanor offense of "furnishing a harmful item to a minor," which is violated by one who "furnishes, presents, provides, makes available, gives, lends, shows, advertises, or distributes to a minor an item that is harmful to minors."

One problem with the law is that it's too broad. Minors cover anyone under 18, so the only way for libraries and bookstores to comply would be to keep all minors away from any material with any amount of sexual content.

"This would likely impose an unnecessary and unjustified burden on any older minor's ability to access free library books appropriate to his or her age and reading level," the judge, Timothy Brooks, wrote in his opinion published Saturday.

The Barack Obama appointee noted it's "also likely that adults browsing the shelves of bookstores and libraries with their minor children would be prohibited from accessing most reading material appropriate for an adult—because the children cannot be near the same material for fear of accessing it."

He concluded the "breadth of this legislation and its restrictions on constitutionally protected speech are therefore unjustified."

230309-sarah-huckabee-sanders-mjf-1318-65614d.jpg Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders at the Arkansas State Capitol in Little Rock on Feb. 8.Al Drago / Bloomberg via Getty Images file

The law's vagueness is also constitutionally problematic.

Specifically, in that its use of the terms "presents," "makes available" and "shows" leaves librarians and booksellers "unsure about whether placing books known to contain sexual content on the bookshelves may subject them to liability once a minor walks through the front door," Brooks wrote. The judge observed there's "no clarity on what affirmative steps a bookseller or librarian must take to avoid a violation."

Picking apart another aspect of the law, the judge sitting in the Western District of Arkansas pointed to the procedure by which anyone "affected" by a book can challenge its placement in the library on the grounds of it being "inappropriate."

It's "very poorly drafted," Brooks observed.

"Perhaps any vagueness may be chalked up to the General Assembly's haste to enact Act 372, but the lack of clarity seems to have been by design," he surmised. "After all, by keeping the pivotal terms vague, local governing bodies have greater flexibility to assess a given challenge however they please rather than how the Constitution dictates."

Whatever the law's motivation, the judge found it would "permit, if not encourage, library committees and local governmental bodies to make censorship decisions based on content or viewpoint, which would violate the First Amendment."

These seemingly commonsense points are refreshing amid the nationwide Republican book ban craze. But the state is apparently undeterred, with Arkansas Attorney General Tim Griffin saying: "We are reviewing the judge's opinion and will continue to vigorously defend the law."

One would think the lawman should want to thoroughly review the judge's opinion before deciding whether to continue vigorously defending the constitutionally suspect law. Indeed, such a review could lead Republicans back to the drawing board on the "very poorly drafted" statute.

Though, in keeping with the spirit of the state law, it might be more fitting for them not to read the opinion first.

jordan_rubin_1.png Jordan Rubin

Jordan Rubin is the Deadline: Legal Blog writer. He was a former prosecutor for the Manhattan district attorney's office.

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Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Trout Giggles    9 months ago
 These seemingly commonsense points are refreshing amid the nationwide Republican book ban craze. But the state is apparently undeterred, with Arkansas Attorney General Tim Griffin saying: "We are reviewing the judge's opinion and will continue to vigorously defend the law." One would think the lawman should want to thoroughly review the judge's opinion before deciding whether to continue vigorously defending the constitutionally suspect law. Indeed, such a review could lead Republicans back to the drawing board on the "very poorly drafted" statute.

Not Griffin. He doesn't do much "reviewing

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
1.1  SteevieGee  replied to  Trout Giggles @1    9 months ago

If I were a librarian, under this law, I just wouldn't let anybody under 18 touch any books at all.  I'd tell them I haven't read it so I don't know what's in it and to "write your congressman".

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  Trout Giggles  replied to  SteevieGee @1.1    9 months ago

Not a bad idea

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
1.1.2  SteevieGee  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.1    9 months ago

Also, under this law, any youth pastor who allows teenagers to read the Bible should be prosecuted.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.3  devangelical  replied to  SteevieGee @1.1.2    9 months ago

those prosecutions will take a bite out of teen pregnancies and child molestation incidents in that state...

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3  Kavika     9 months ago

Seems that the ''new republican party'' has the need to get into your bathroom, bedroom and now your reading room is the new jail.

Classic stupid

With the exception of one very fine member, I didn't know that they knew how to read in Arkansas.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  Trout Giggles  replied to  Kavika @3    9 months ago

LOL!

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4  evilone    9 months ago

Other than the parent, who's to judge what's harmful to minors? 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1  seeder  Trout Giggles  replied to  evilone @4    9 months ago

The government!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.1  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1    9 months ago

... a xtian nationalist government.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.1.2  evilone  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1    9 months ago
The government!

Hmm... are they hiring book inspectors? Will they be trained and certified?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
4.2  cjcold  replied to  evilone @4    9 months ago

Not all minors are created equal. Some can understand what others can't

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
4.3  Jack_TX  replied to  evilone @4    9 months ago
Other than the parent, who's to judge what's harmful to minors? 

We've been doing that as a society for longer than the Constitution has existed, and rightfully so.

You're familiar with the existence of an agency known as "Child Protective Services"?

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.3.1  evilone  replied to  Jack_TX @4.3    9 months ago
You're familiar with the existence of an agency known as "Child Protective Services"?

Are they the state agency in charge of determining which books are harmful under the new law? What is their criteria? Are there exceptions? What if I as a parent disagrees, is there an appeal process? Perhaps we should just ban all books just to be sure no child is ever harmed and issue them all handguns instead...

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
4.3.2  Jack_TX  replied to  evilone @4.3.1    9 months ago
Are they the state agency in charge of determining which books are harmful under the new law? 

You didn't specify books in your first comment, but yes they do step in when kids are exposed to shit they shouldn't be.  

That's not a defense of this law, BTW, which appears to be misguided and incredibly poorly written.

That said, there IS a place for society to enact legislation that protects kids... often from their parents or other supervising adults.  That doesn't change because somebody you don't like tries to go overboard with the idea. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.3.3  evilone  replied to  Jack_TX @4.3.2    9 months ago
You didn't specify books in your first comment,...

The article is about books. 

...but yes they do step in when kids are exposed to shit they shouldn't be.  

So children shouldn't be exposed to books? 

That's not a defense of this law, BTW, which appears to be misguided and incredibly poorly written.

You're being too kind. The law is populist garbage and anathema of our 1st Amendment.

That said, there IS a place for society to enact legislation that protects kids... often from their parents or other supervising adults.  That doesn't change because somebody you don't like tries to go overboard with the idea. 

Don't be obtuse. We're talking a specific subject. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
4.3.4  Jack_TX  replied to  evilone @4.3.3    9 months ago
The article is about books.

Your statement was not.

So children shouldn't be exposed to books?

Some books, certainly.  

It staggers me that we need to explain the concept of age-appropriateness.

But...that's why these laws are appearing.

Don't be obtuse. We're talking a specific subject. 

The irony.  FFS.

Do you really imagine that there are no books with graphic sexual content that would be inappropriate for young children?

Do you suppose there are no books that advocate racism?  Romanticize self harm? 

You really want your junior high library handing out copies of Andrew Tate's Alpha to 12 year old boys?

You want lovable Uncle whatever babysitting his 7 year old niece and having "story time" reading 50 Shades of Gray?  

What could possibly go wrong?

So as much as you may not like to consider it, yes, sometimes books do cause harm to children.

 
 
 
TOM PA
Freshman Silent
5  TOM PA    9 months ago

Okay, close down any and all book stores selling the bible!  

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
6  sandy-2021492    9 months ago
It established a new misdemeanor offense of "furnishing a harmful item to a minor," which is violated by one who "furnishes, presents, provides, makes available, gives, lends, shows, advertises, or distributes to a minor an item that is harmful to minors."

Careful, or you won't be able to give your toddler a gun with live ammo.  Never mind the First Amendment, what about the Second?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
6.1  cjcold  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6    9 months ago

The NRA taught me how to shoot as a cub scout.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
6.1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  cjcold @6.1    9 months ago

Assault rifle?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
6.1.2  cjcold  replied to  Bob Nelson @6.1.1    9 months ago

Bolt action .22 rifle.

ArmaLite produced the first AR-15 in 1959.

P.S. The AR in AR-15 stands for ARmaLite not automatic rifle as some believe.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
6.1.3  Bob Nelson  replied to  cjcold @6.1.2    9 months ago

No fun!

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
6.1.4  cjcold  replied to  Bob Nelson @6.1.3    9 months ago
No fun!

Which part?

A .22 is the best rifle to train on.

Even have a .22 long rifle conversion kit for 5.56x45 rifles.

Just as accurate out to about 100 yards where the .22 falls.

Tight 500 yard groups are easy with 5.56 without wind.

 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
6.1.5  charger 383  replied to  cjcold @6.1.4    9 months ago

I recently bought an AR-15 style .22 rifle.  Looks and feels like AR-15, have not got to shoot it yet but looks like a fun little rifle that will be cheap to shoot.  Good price too!

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
6.1.6  Bob Nelson  replied to  cjcold @6.1.4    9 months ago

It just won't do for mass murder.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
6.1.7  Bob Nelson  replied to  charger 383 @6.1.5    9 months ago

That should do the job on schoolchildren.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
6.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Bob Nelson @6.1.6    9 months ago

Handguns are used the most in murders, around 50% while the so called assault rifle is used in 2.5%.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
6.1.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Bob Nelson @6.1.7    9 months ago

Why would you think that’s his intention?

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
6.1.10  charger 383  replied to  Bob Nelson @6.1.7    9 months ago

You really think that?   

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
6.1.11  Bob Nelson  replied to  charger 383 @6.1.10    9 months ago

Not really. But I can't see any more logical reason for such a weapon.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7  devangelical    9 months ago

you can bet that thumper daddy is very proud of his walking genetic defect.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8  JBB    9 months ago

It is a tough time to be a kid in Arkansas...

original

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.1  seeder  Trout Giggles  replied to  JBB @8    9 months ago

Those kids look overjoyed, don't they?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.1.1  JBB  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.1    9 months ago

They look like they just earned they are going to be working in the salt mines inside of attending middle school...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.1    9 months ago

"if you kids want to live and eat in a nice house with all the electronics and wear name brand camo clothes, you're going to make the payments..."

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
8.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  JBB @8    9 months ago

Children make great miners. They're small, so they can work small seams.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
8.2.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.2    9 months ago
Children make great miners. 

Some countries have already discovered that.  

The increasing demand for net zero carbon emissions is placing great pressure for increasing the mining of cobalt .  Currently 60-80% of the world’s supply of cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of the Congo where miners start at the age of seven.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
8.2.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.2.1    9 months ago

Is there cobalt on Arkansas?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
8.2.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.2.2    9 months ago

Not that I know off, but there are children miners in the Congo.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.2.4  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.2.3    9 months ago

So Arkansas is now The Heart Of Darkness?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
8.2.5  Bob Nelson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.2.3    9 months ago

I don't see what Sanders has to do with the Congo.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
8.2.6  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.2.5    9 months ago

Nothing, the linkage is child miners.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
8.2.7  Bob Nelson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.2.6    9 months ago

What will children mine in Arkansas?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
8.2.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.2.7    9 months ago

The power of art with the beauty of nature at the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8.2.9  George  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.2.7    9 months ago

Diamonds? it is the diamond state and has an actual park where you can "mine" for diamonds.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
8.2.10  cjcold  replied to  JBB @8.2.4    9 months ago

Except for Clyde Clifford on KAAY in Little Rock back in the day.

My friends and I would drive to the "hill" for better reception.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
8.2.11  Bob Nelson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.2.8    9 months ago

Was a change in Arkansas law needed to allow children to visit that museum?

Is a museum visit considered "work" there?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
8.2.12  Bob Nelson  replied to  George @8.2.9    9 months ago

I seem to remember children mining diamonds in Africa. So I guess Arkansas is aligning its labor laws on Africa.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
8.2.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.2.12    9 months ago

Arkansas is a state and Africa is a continent. There aren’t any “African” laws to align to.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
8.2.14  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.2.11    9 months ago

No.

I wouldn’t think so.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.2.15  devangelical  replied to  cjcold @8.2.10    9 months ago

beaker street, hell yeah...

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
8.2.16  SteevieGee  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @8.2.1    9 months ago
The increasing demand for net zero carbon emissions is placing great pressure for increasing the mining of cobalt .  Currently 60-80% of the world’s supply of cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of the Congo where miners start at the age of seven.

So...  Do you think this is because of increased mining of cobalt or is it because of the lack of child labor laws in Congo that Gov. Sanders is emulating?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
8.2.17  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  SteevieGee @8.2.16    9 months ago
Do you think this is because of increased mining of cobalt

Yes, increased demand equals increased mining

or is it because of the lack of child labor laws in Congo that Gov. Sanders is emulating?

I doubt that she knows the Congo's laws.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
9  Drinker of the Wry    9 months ago

The horror!  The horror!

 
 

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