"Disappear without recourse": Trump's defiance of a court order means "any American" could be next | Salon.com
By: Russell Payne (Salon)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
President Donald Trump's administration maintains that those that it improperly sent to a prison in El Salvador are themselves responsible for seeking legal relief that could potentially return them to the United States, a position that legal experts say is destined for argument before the Supreme Court.
In the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland resident whom the Trump administration sent to a Salvadoran prison based on an "administrative error," the White House has argued that it can't make its partners in El Salvador return the man it sent them.
The argument came in response to a unanimous Supreme Court opinion last week, which required the administration to "facilitate" Abrego Garcia's return. The Trump administration responded in a filing saying that to "facilitate" his return means simply to "remove any domestic obstacles that would otherwise impede the alien's ability to return here."
Attorney General Pam Bondi expanded on the administration's position in a statement, saying that to facilitate Abgrego Garcia's return would be to provide a plane, but that it's "up to El Salvador if they want to return him. That's not up to us."
In a statement Monday, the president of El Salvador and Trump ally, Nayib Bukele, said that it was also beyond his power to return Abgrego Garcia to the United States. "I don't have the power to return him to the United States," he claimed.
The position of the administration, taken in the context of Bukele's statement, suggests that the administration expects Abgrego Garcia to "find his way back to the U.S. border on his own," according to Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan. She added that she thinks the Trump administration is in violation of a court order for refusing to bring him back.
"They are taking a highly questionable interpretation of the word 'facilitate' to mean that they need only open the door if Mr. Abrego Garcia is able to get out of a terrorist prison," McQuade said. "If they can do this, they can cause any American citizen to disappear without recourse. At some point, the court will need to hold an official in contempt for violating its order."
Jeffrey Abramson, professor emeritus of government and law at the University of Texas, agreed that the administration "seems prepared to defy a federal court order and provoke a constitutional crisis."
"In an unsigned unanimous order, the Supreme Court upheld the order insofar as it directed the Trump administration to 'facilitate' the man's return, though the Court asked the judge to clarify what exactly it meant to 'effectuate' the man's return," Abramson told Salon. "But instead of cooperating, the Trump administration has dug in, refused to do anything, and walked back its earlier concession that the deportation was unlawful."
Abramson said, though, that it's "not clear what Judge Xinis can do to compel the Trump administration to comply with the order to facilitate. She may hold Trump administration officials in contempt of court, but how to give teeth to such a contempt citation is not clear."
Looming over the administration's refusal to bring Abrego Garcia back to the U.S. is Trump's apparent intent to send American citizens to the El Salvadoran prison next.
"We always have to obey the laws, but we also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways, that hit elderly ladies on the back of the head with a baseball bat when they're not looking, that are absolute monsters," Trump told reporters Monday. "I'd like to include them."
Bennett Gershman, a law professor at Pace University, told Salon that the question of what protections an American citizen might enjoy, that a noncitizen like Abgrego Garcia was denied, is probably a question of enforcement. He sees this issue going to the Supreme Court, noting that it will also be a question of whether the Trump administration decides to respect whatever order is issued.
"For example, if Trump decides to deport a citizen to the El Salvador prison, as he has suggested he could do and would do under his broad foreign affairs power, and even though the citizen is protected by the Constitution from cruel and unusual punishment under the Eighth Amendment," Gersham said, "how is that right enforced?"
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Thus lies the way to tyranny.
You need to update your information as to the reality of what's going in this case.
Even CNN's Chief Legal Reporter Blew Up This Major Lie About the Deported Illegal Alien Case
Your link has nothing to do with the central point of this article, and is merely a regurgitation of false and misleading right wing propaganda, but thanks for posting!
Garcia had "withholding of removal" status, so he was allowed to live and work in the U.S.
SCotUS unanimously ruled that his deportation was illegal.
Trump is playing semantic games to test the limits of his power; he is using this man as a political football. This is sick.
A decent human being would —especially after acknowledging the error of his administration— call for El Salvador's Bukele to return him immediately.
Trump is not a decent human being; he is an asshole. You should be criticizing this behavior instead of trying to defend it.
Sounds to me like Matt Vespa is honing his lips for one of those peachy jobs Trump likes to bestow on media personalities who shower him with praise and support.
WHat about Paula Reid? I believe she is analyst for CNN.
When did CNN become right wing propaganda?
According to CNN it seems The Supreme courts wording allowed that.
Paula Reid said that to host Jake Tapper quite clearly yesterday. “They did not order the administration to return him to the United States. They said that they need to facilitate his return. They could have said 'we order him returned,' but they didn't do that,” she said.
The order only mandates he not be deported to El Salvador. There's no way this ends with him back in the US, nor should it. If he comes back, he'll be immediately sent to Guantanamo or any third country that will take him pursuant to the order of removal.
He has zero legal right to be in the US.
I know nothing about her, as to Vespa who appears of late to be a goto, a simple review of his articles over the years reveals over the top partisanship swimming in troll stew.
And what do they do if he says, NO.
Garcia is not a nice man. He is and will always remain an illegal alien, He ties to MS-13 have been verified. MS-13 has been designated as a terrorist organization. Why do lefties clamor so loudly for this thug's return?
He's not coming back to the US and most patriotic Americans applaud his permanent removal.
If he wants to continue to be paid he’ll do whatever the fuck Trump tells him to do. Both of them are pretending the other is in the driver seat. This isn’t rocket science.
Amazing how this violent criminal has never been arrested, huh? Ever ask yourself reasonable questions? Or do you just blindly accept what this administration insists is true without actual evidence?
The actual evidence is there in the article. Ignoring and denying reality doesn't change the facts.
You have this delusion that Trump is going to do anything other than give him a ride home or maybe you can point to the part of the SCOTUS decision that tells Trump what to do. This MS -13 gangbanger is a citizen of El Salvado and you want their President to turn him over to a foreign government, so we can send him to another country.
I’ve searched your haystack for that needle, and unsurprisingly it is not there. Please point it out. One can assume that what you call evidence is going to be so incredibly weak that even you knew it was not a good idea to quote it.
According to Abrego Garcia’s petition last month, the GFIS police submitted explained that “the only reason to believe Plaintiff Abrego Garcia was a gang member was that he was wearing a Chicago Bulls hat and a hoodie; and that a confidential informant advised that he was an active member of MS-13 with the Westerns clique.” The “Western” clique of MS-13 “operates in Brentwood, Long Island, in New York, a state that Plaintiff Abrego Garcia has never lived in,” the petition read.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-administration-lies-kilmar-abrego-garcia-explained-1235318906/
I am under no such delusion that Donald Trump has an iota of empathy or shame. He needs to be forced to do the right thing, every time, no exceptions, because he is a subhuman pile of garbage.
looks like there's several openings available for some new non-maga american heroes and icons ...
Very true, and that also says a lot about those who look up to him. How low of a life form must it take to look up to a subhuman pile of garbage?
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Yes, but it's not quite that simple.
They also ruled that the District Court may have exceeded its authority by the use of the term "effectuate" which the SCOTUS deemed to be unclear. The ruling says "the District Court should clarify its directive, with due regard for the deference owed the Executive Branch in the conduct of foreign affairs."
The football in question was confirmed as a member of MS13 by two different immigration courts in 2019 after being arrested with other MS13 members. Again, it's not necessarily as simple as some media outlets would have us believe.
Well yeah. But this is more complex than that.
Other than the 2019 arrest with 3 other MS13 members?
He was granted a US work permit.
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Arguably, the Court “could” say what they like. However, to retain Constitutional legitimacy, the Court generally tries not to augment the ruling in a case like this. Rather, they were evaluating the language of the District court’s order. Here, the Court affirmed the order to facilitate Garcia’s return.
The Court also asked the District judge to clarify what was meant by “effectuate.” This is because the Court does not wish to violate Separation of Powers by telling the Executive how to do its job.
Semantics aside, I don’t think there is any question that the courts at every level think the US government should do what it can to return Garcia to The States ASAP.
He was arrested standing in front of Home Depot. Can you imagine that? An immigrant standing in front of Home Depot! How unusual! /S
It is inhuman to think there is any evidence of this guy doing anything illegal, other than existing in the US, and that he should consequently spent the rest of his young life in a notoriously horrible prison. That kind of “justice” is some gangsta shit.
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And what was his crime? Existing in the US? Now punishable by a slow, terrorizing death in a place so horrific you wouldn’t even want to be alive in? Wouldn’t it be cheaper to just shoot immigrants on site? Is that where this is going?
He was arrested with 3 other MS13 members. And drugs.
He was confirmed as an MS13 member in two separate immigration court hearings.
He admitted to entering the country illegally. Other than that, he has not been charged with a crime.
However... MS13 was declared a terrorist organization in El Salvador in 2015, and was declared a Foreign Terrorist Organization by the US Govt on Feb 6 of this year.
The man is a known member of what is now a terrorist group. That complicates matters.
he has not been charged with a crime.
Exactly. Did you forget what fucking country you live in?! He was given a virtual death penalty for existing in the US. Do you really want to normalize that?!
For starters, yes. He entered the country illegally, resided here illegally and was subject to a deportation order.
So put him in a foreign prison, throw away the key, and let American tax payers fund his slow death?
Oh FFS.
Apparently I live in a country being overrun by drama queens with zero interest in investing the intellectual capital required for honest discussion.
He wasn't just existing. He was in the country illegally.... Which. is. a. crime. He was also a known member of a notorious criminal gang. He was arrested during a drug bust alongside other known members of the same gang. He wasn't charged because the drugs were on the ground and police could not be certain which gang member threw them there.
Now... that said.... he was later granted a work permit... which made him a legal resident. He went 5+ years without any additional arrests, so it would be reasonable to conclude he was getting his life together.
However.... the declaration of MS13 as a terrorist organization changes things again.
WTF are we normalizing??? There is nothing normal about anything associated with this situation, aside from the batshit hysterical overreactions of emotional leftists and the angry immigrant hatred of the far right..
You're unwilling to look at all the facts and actually think this through, so you're still making no fucking sense.
We could just as easily ask "do you want to normalize bullying other countries into releasing members of terrorist groups?"
We mistakenly deported a member of a terrorist organization, and now we're asking for him back. It's not a simple situation.
This guy is an El Salvadoran citizen in prison in El Salvador. He's there because he's a member of a terrorist group that nearly destroyed that country. They've imprisoned over 75,000 people since 2022 during a massive cleanup of their country, which is finally not a complete gangland shithole for the first time in decades.
Why would they want to release somebody with terrorist affiliations?
Contrary to prevailing left wing foolishness, the POTUS does not actually have control which of their citizens other countries decide to imprison.
What is this guy's criminal record? What crimes has he been convicted of ? Or are we just going to send unconvicted persons to notorious prisons now?
Only people who have been convicted ( or in some cases formally charged) of crimes belong in prison. Your or trumps or Stephen Millers or Pam Bondis opinion of him is not enough to throw him in a dungeon. I would ask what the hell has happened to the right in this country but I already know.
That's an issue for the government of the country he's a citizen of.
Your or trumps or Stephen Millers or Pam Bondis opinion of him is not enough to throw him in a dungeon.
My opinion of him has nothing to do with it. Sure, I don't think highly of people whose wife seeks an order of protection from, or who hangs out with members of one of the the most violent gangs in the world.
I don't care if he's a member of MS-13 or not. There is a legal order to deport him. He should be deported. If the Trump DOJ doesn't want to reopen the order preventing his removal to El Salvador they should either deport him somewhere else or Guantanamo until they find a place to send him.
The people defending Trump and his underlings in this are looking like fools.
This man was NOT supposed to be deported to El Salvador, but he was. Bring him back and put him through due process. Period. Unless you want to cause continued unrest over this.
He hasn't. That doesn't matter in El Salvador.
We can't actually send people to prison in other countries. We can send them to that country, but the prison part is up to the locals.
Similarly, we can't force them to release people, especially if those people are not Americans.
Personally, I do. I think it impacts the legality of whatever happens, and I want us following the law.
There is a legal order preventing his deportation and authorizing his living and working in the United States. The Trump Administration may not agree with that order, but they don't have the right to unilaterally overturn or ignore it.
I'm not suggesting they did, BTW. I'm suggesting they simply fucked up the clerical side of this and accidentally deported somebody they should not have.
In an ideal situation, it should be easy to fix that. But this isn't ideal. He's a confirmed member of an FTO, so shit is much more complicated.
The case of course is more complex, but my statement is in fact correct and yes the fact is that simple . It is a fact that SCotUS unanimously ruled that his deportation was illegal:
Irrelevant to my point. He was illegally removed and the Trump administration is using this case as yet another test to see how far Trump can push his powers. It does not matter what the Trump administration believes or suspects about him, they admitted they made an "administrative error" and SCotUS had declared his deportation illegal. A matter easily resolved by Trump asking Bukele to return him. Obviously Trump has told Bukele to refuse to return Garcia.
Most every topic is more complex than what is handled in a post. But what I posted was 100% factually correct.
www.rawstory.com /marco-rubio-2671784847/
Marco Rubio's 'utter nonsense' ripped to pieces by right-wing legal analyst
Krystina Alarcon Carroll 2-3 minutes 4/16/2025
Krystina Alarcon Carroll
April 16, 2025 3:10PM ET
Andrew McCarthy, a legal analyst for the National Review , is criticizing Secretary of State Marco Rubio for his ‘disingenuous’ explanation for the deportation Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
The 29-year-old Maryland man was mistakenly deported to El Salvador last month. He was a topic of conversation on Monday during President Donald Trump's meeting with El Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele. Rubio, Attorney General Pam Bondi, and others were all present for the meeting and took questions from the media.
McCarthy took issue with Rubio's declarations that judges should not be making foreign policy decisions best left up to the president of the United States.
“Marco Rubio is too smart not to know that what he was saying was utter nonsense,” Columnist and lawyer Andrew C. McCarthy wrote of Rubio’s remarks. “Rubio knows enough about the laws he’s enforcing to understand that the repatriation of an alien — even an illegal alien — is not what’s supposed to happen when an immigration judge has ruled that the illegal alien may not be deported to his home country because he has a credible fear of persecution.”
This is what happened to Abrego Garcia back in 2019 when an immigration judge granted him “withholding of removal to El Salvador.” Meaning, “The illegal alien could be deported (i.e., he remained 'removable') but he could not lawfully be deported to El Salvador.”
McCarthy then stated, “Rubio went on a ridiculous rant about how the foreign policy of the United States is run by the president, not by a judge. As the former senator is surely aware, the withholding of removal remedy was enacted by Congress. (See Title 8, U.S. Code, §1231(b)(3) ).”
“It is inconceivable that the United States secretary of state is unaware that Abrego Garcia had a legal right against deportation to El Salvador that was enforceable in federal court,” McCarthy opined. “A federal court’s vindication of a person’s legal rights is not a matter of the judge trying to wrest control of foreign policy. It’s the law. I’m pretty sure Marco Rubio knows that.”
Are you in favor of suspending due process for Garcia?
You seem to be trying to justify leaving him in El Salvador. If that is NOT what you are trying to do then I again refer you to the concept of due process and how the Trump administration is violating it.
It really doesn't. He's deportable either way.
I agree they need to follow the law though, which means he should not be deported to El Salvador as things stand right now.
is a legal order preventing his deportation and authorizing his living and working in the United State
Again, the modification of the deportation order only prevents his deportation to El Salvador, specifically. It doesn't create a legal right to stay here. He has no visa. He has no green card and he's not a citizen. Those are the legal processes that create a legal right to stay here.
'm suggesting they simply fucked up the clerical side of this and accidentally deported somebody they should not have.
I agree there was a mistake but I think its they deported him somewhere they shouldn't.
Correct.
We arent paying the El Salvador dictator to let them in the country. We are paying him to put them in prison.
Yes, that's what I've been saying. McCarthy is on top of things as usual.
The DOJ should do what it can to get him repatriated, then deport him somewhere else in order to conform with the previously entered orders. Or, they could keep him in prison here and relitigate his claim to be afraid of deportation to his own country and send him there if successful.
Then you are demanding that he be brought back and go through due process.
The only due process he's owed is the trump admin making a good faith effort at securing his removal from El Salvador before being deported somewhere else. The deportation order has been entered. He's had his due process on that issue.
.
He was granted "withholding of removal" status in 2019 by an immigration judge.
If due process finds that he violated the terms of this grant then he could be legally deported. If not, he is free to live and work in the USA.
Read John’s link, or the courts order. The withholding of removal order only prevents his removal to El Salvador. Other than that, the deportation order remains in effect. He can be deported anywhere else without any further legal process.
Look, the Trump administration sent a man who has been convicted of no other crime to a foreign prison. They knew he was being sent to prison, as all the illegal migrants we sent there have been. Does the United States send people to prison for entering the US illegally?
This is a phenomenal moral failure on the part of trump Miller Bondi, Rubio etc. and they will be held accountable one way or another.
Right. But they also ruled that what to do about it is still very unclear.
Completely relevant to any process related to getting him back.
We don't know either of those things.
Our country deports people to their country of origin who enter the country illegally all of the time, regardless of whether they have committed a crime or joined a gang. The trump admin simply needs to follow the follow the laws and fix mistakes when they are made.
Many if not most of the people we have sent to the El Salvador prison are not from El Salvador.
Yep.
Of course not.
Not at all. I'm simply saying that fixing this fuck up is not as easy as our angry liberal friends want to pretend.
The El Salvador dictator will not deny or defy Trump, he wants more money from him. If Trump said get that guy on a plane tomorrow he'd be on a plane tomorrow.
Bull shit.
Trump: Give me back the prisoner.
President Dictator who is so far down on the feed chain that he will do anything Trump says: Uhhhhhh.. Ok.
Unless of course the "coolest dictator" has his dick buried somewhere in the White House.
Trump and Company are fucking pathetic. "I can do anything, except get this guy from a prison that I am paying for sending him too."
They had ought to give up right now before the whole country puts their asses on slow boats to nowhere.
Does not change the fact this was illegal. That was the point I made.
Not relevant to my point ... you replied to my post about this being illegal and argued an entirely different point.
Sure we do. Bukele is sucking up to Trump. If Trump wanted Garcia returned, Bukele would do so. Do you really think that Bukele would defy Trump in the USA with Trump sitting next to him? Trump had already informed Bukele what he wanted him to say and just like Trump's other sycophants he did what he was told to do.
Sure it is. Trump tells Bukele to return Garcia. Done.
I don't think I've suggested otherwise.
FFS. We're having a conversation. They often include the exchange of multiple ideas. Does everything have to be an argument?
No, you're assuming. For all you know Bukele is trying to press Trump for a couple billion in aid or interference with an international court when he's tried for all his human rights violations.
Do you really think all of these discussions are going on in public?
Again, you're assuming.
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I stated a fact. You came back suggesting the situation is more complex. Well of course the case is more complex than the fact that this was deemed illegal by the SCotUS. But that does not change the fact that it was unanimously deemed illegal. The Trump administration broke the law and they are not trying to rectify the situation. They are doing the opposite.
Just stop, you know damn well what has taken place. Trump is testing his limits and part of this was to tell Bukele to not return Garcia.
Excellent. We agree.
I know you have a strong anti-Trump bias and a history of struggling to imagine alternative predicaments.
That's certainly a possibility. It's certainly not the only possibility.
What you label 'anti-Trump bias' is simply dealing with facts. In this case, it is not only a possibility that Trump instructed Bukele to publicly state he will not return him, it is near certainty.
Do you actually believe that Bukele would make a public statement sitting next to Trump that Trump did not approve of? Note how Trump made no indication that he was surprised with his response or was opposed to it.
One need only consider what we know of Trump and the facts of this case to see that Bukele stated what Trump wanted him to state: that he would not return Garcia.
We also agree that Trump is an asshole, but that agreement too does not change the fact that the deportation of Garcia was illegal.
And your proof of this is......?
Facts and bias are not mutually exclusive.
Which would simply mean they knew what was going to said publicly. It offers no indication of what went on privately.
I think we're in agreement on both of those points.
I think we differ on the complexity of extricating a member of a terrorist organization from prison in the country where he is a citizen.
I recognize the normal complexity of international extrication. However, this is a case of a small ally nation that was doing us a favor to please Trump. There is very little chance that Bukele would defy Trump to keep a single person prisoner. Makes zero sense. What does make perfect sense is the Bukele is stating what Trump told him to state … just like what his cabinet does.
Bukele obviously cares about value he can gain from the USA via Trump and would not defy Trump just to keep Garcia. To wit, Bukele is (obviously) doing exactly what Trump asked him to do.
Make an argument rather post witless platitudes demanding ‘proof’. If you think I am wrong then make an argument … add some value.
There is every chance he wants something in return, and he's hoping to leverage an embarrassing situation for his own benefit. He didn't get where he is being a nice guy.
Given the current situation, there is now a significant chance that both Bukele and El Salvador as a country could be the subject of punitive actions taken by a future US regime. Trump haters are not known for their rational thought or restraint, and have shown zero reluctance in going after anybody associated with him.
It's not hard to imagine a situation where the political tide turns and this guy is on trial for human rights abuses, with economic sanctions against El Salvador until they turn him over. In his position, I would absolutely be demanding formal and permanent immunity from anything that could possibly be held against me if some batshit angry lefty wins the WH.
LOL. Neither is your president.
Thanks for demonstrating the point, John.
Oh, and he's your president, too.
Maybe you should look a little harder, don't rely on the "Rolling Stone" to give you the facts. You act like a Chicago Bulls hat is the only reason he's considered part of MS-13 is totally ridiculous.
Kilmer Abrego Garcia Documents
Quite a guy. No wonder he is a hero to so many on the left.
Yes, we agree on this.
Good grief.
Could you give me an example of a batshit angry PotUS in recent times besides Trump?
I can only name one batshit angry PotUS in my lifetime and that is Trump. Nixon, the obvious possibility, was not angry, his big problem was paranoia. LBJ was an asshole but does not hold a candle to Trump.
Right. Pay no attention to the Tesla dealerships on fire. Certainly pay no attention to the NY Attorney General who prosecuted Trump for something she herself was doing.
No, but apparently AOC is the current Democratic frontrunner. Unlikely, to be sure, but Trump was unlikely, too.
Is what you mean by 'Trump haters'? I thought you had a much more inclusive meaning for that phrase ... something like 'anyone who regularly criticizes bad decisions by Trump'.
Yes those who violently destroy personal property in some form of misguided political protest are indeed irrational and irresponsible. Most people who regularly criticize (or silently disagree with) Trump do so responsibly.
Is she an example of someone who you consider to be "batshit angry"?
No no. I mean the people who disagree with everything he does simply because he's the one doing it. We're talking about the nutjobs who disassociate with family members of friends upon learning they voted for Trump. Or they vandalize cars or other private property because they deem it to be Trump related somehow. They might have "needed" the day off work or school after Trump was elected. Or they refuse to serve Trump supporters or his staff in their businesses. Or maybe they rationalize physical violence against Trump or Trump supporters, like saying their disappointed that his would be assassin missed.
I mean people who hate him so much they lose the capacity for rational thought (assuming they ever had it to begin with).
Batshit, yes. Angry, meh....maybe. I think she does a good job at pretending to be angry in order to win votes. But she's exactly the type of person to whom I refer. Whether she is authentically or artificially angry, she would not hesitate to persecute and/or prosecute Trump allies for her own political gain. We've already seen Letitia James do so.
You know whats Batshit? People who know that Trump is not fit for or worthy of office, especially as US president, but endlessy pretend he is just another guy.
I feel confident you'll demonstrate it for us.
You didn't disappoint.
There are actually millions of completely sane possible reactions to Trump and his actions that do not involve hand-wringing or hysteria or anxiety of any kind.
You choose to have a great deal of emotional stress over these events and this man you cannot control. That is 100% your choice. As foolish a choice as it is, I would not seek to deny you the right to make it.
You then demand that everyone else express a similar level of anxiety, and attempt to judge or shame them if they fail to comply. I've told you before and I reiterate now that I refuse to participate in your foolishness. Not sorry.
You dont know what you are talking about on me, and you dont know what you are talking about on Trump. And thats all there is to it.
Well if someone disagrees with what Trump does and cannot provide a reason for the disagreement (other than he is Trump) then I can understand you affixing the label 'Trump hater'. If that is how you define 'Trump hater' then you have a much more restricted definition than others on this site who use that term.
What about those who disagree with almost everything Trump does and provide facts and sound logic to support the disagreement? Is it possible to almost never agree with Trump and not be a 'Trump hater' as you define the term?
Is she 'batshit' in your view because you disagree with her position or because you think she is mentally unstable / irrational?
AOC is clearly to my left, but I do not consider her 'batshit crazy' or angry. She seems driven and still somewhat naive, but she also strikes me as rational, principled, and in control of herself.
Funny, I see her as an individual who cares about the rule of law and cares about decency. Do you see her, as PotUS, vindictively trying to prosecute Trump (without reasonable cause)? I do not. I think that if she were PotUS she would, unlike Trump, attempt to be presidential, attempt to properly execute her duties with fidelity to the constitution, the rule of law, and basic decency. Her policies would, of course, be quite left of center.
And, just to be clear, she is not on my radar for someone I would like to see as PotUS (at least at this stage in her career).
I agree. You are highly critical of Trump but can back up your positions with facts and sound reasoning. You do not qualify as 'batshit'.
I seem to recall you recently posting your dismay over the loss of net worth caused by one individual who you cannot control. I would not presume that you are under 'emotional stress' but clearly you are very much NOT pleased with Trump.
And you can (and have) explained your reasons for your criticism of Trump.
JR (me too) disagrees with Trump far more than you do, but you can always ask why and you will get facts and reasons supporting the criticism.
Let's now add some additional information.
Senator Van Hollen met with Garcia in El Salvador. He arrived and the authorities were able to locate Garcia and provide a meeting with Garcia in civilian clothes sipping a drink with Van Hollen.
This is a senator who was given this courtesy. Now, you actually think that a phone call from Trump, the PotUS, asking for Garcia to be returned from the prison (where the USA is providing funding) would be ignored by Bukele?
There is no complexity here. The USA made a mistake and is asking for the return of a legal resident from an ally nation that the USA is paying to hold deported illegal criminals. Trump makes a phone call, Bukele accommodates.
He is not a legal resident. He has no visa, no green card and is subject to immediate deportation.
He was granted the right to legally reside in the USA and to work here.
no he wasn't and you absolutely cannot provide any evidence that he was given a legal right to stay in the US, or the deportation order was removed, because it never happened. He doesn't have a visa. He doesn't have a green card. He doesn't have asylum. He has zero and never has had any legal right to be in the US.
All he secured was a right not to be deported to El Salvador. If he was given authorization to work, for which I've seen no source, it only allows him to work until deported, which could happen at any time the US finds a third country to accept him. He has no right to any due process before deportation to any country in the world beside El Salvador.
Why do so many progressives refuse to deal with the actual facts of his case?
I stated that he was given the right by an immigration judge in 2019 to legally stay in the USA and to work in the USA by virtue of a withholding of removal.
Correct, he could not be deported to El Salvador; I did not claim he could not be deported elsewhere.
But there is more to this than that, keep reading.
Read this :
But he’s only talking about the really really bad American citizens, just like how he promised to start deportations with the really really bad illegal immigrants. Meanwhile the doting husband and father of an autistic child, who has never been arrested, is sitting in said prison as a result of an accident that Trump refuses to correct - claiming his Chicago Bulls hat makes him a leader of MS13. Nobody is safe in this country anymore.
the nuremberg defense won't be valid for any LE and gov't employees that participated or let this happen, but the good news is that there might be plenty of factory jobs available when they get out of prison ...
Jesse Watters of Fox News claimed that "everyone knows" a Bulls hat is indication of MS-13 affiliation.
Then prove it in court.
My brother in law used to buy sports teams hats to wear every day ( he was going bald). He rarely had any real fan feeling for the team on the hat. He bought them for color and logo style.
Bring the guy back and give him due process, or make the situation a hundred times worse.
My daughter works as an accountant for a very well known sports branding athletic wear company. I wonder if she knows she a kingpin in this gang empire.
I do? huh
If the Trump admin actually did admit they made a mistake and it was a clerical error I agree he should be brought back.
The Trump administration admitted in a court filing that the deportation was an "administrative error".
If it was clearly shown to be a mistake but they refused to admit it, would that mean an improperly deported person should not be brought back?
maga doesn't admit mistakes, they double down ...
Read #3 again. Pretty sure I said if it was a mistake he should be brought back.
So what? Why do you want an illegal alien criminal brought back to the US.
The Trump Admin is making the case that the next left wing populist admin can start housing J6 terrorists in El Salvador prisons too. I mean if the Presidential Admins can do as they please without repercussions what's the next one going to try?
Or, perhaps we stick with the Constitution, the rule of law and the idea of due process?
it's really going to suck for people that choose trump over the constitution ...
Either the law applies to everyone, or it doesn't. In other words - play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
that's way too generous for traitors. form and pour a 10 foot tall, 50 foot long, concrete wall right at the entrance to arlington and let the military honor guard make good use of it ...
I want the law to be followed.
He has a work permit. That makes him no longer an illegal alien. Under US law, he has a legal right to be here.
He has never been charged with a crime, either here or in El Salvador. He has done nothing to violate the terms of his work permit.
So on what basis are you accusing him of being a "illegal alien criminal"?
He absolutely remains an illegal alien. He entered illegally. He was denied asylum and ordered deported. He simply could not be deported to El Salvador under the withholding order and was allowed to work if not deported elsewhere. He could always, and can still be, deported at any time to any other country without further legal process The Trump admin should either have gotten the withholding order removed before deporting him to El Salvador, or deported him to a third country that would accept him. He has no legal right to be here.
Yes he does. He was granted "withholding of removal" status in 2019 by an immigration judge.
Aww, now there you go again, using facts and logic against fear mongering and innuendo.
I think they should be shipped to Gitmo
they can swim there from a CG cutter, south of key west, after receiving a few strategic lacerations ...
so much for the checks and balances among 3 branches of gov't. ...
no due process = no constitution
no constitution = no laws
no laws = no maga
maga opening the disappear without recourse door may come in real handy in 2 or 4 years ...
Adam Kinzinger says it almost time to take to the streets
"Adam Kinzinger finally saying it out loud. We are on our own. It is up to us. And it’s close to time to take to the streets. https://t.co/J1OWw4juCb" / X
Trump is tip toeing toward total authoritarianism, and its in fits and starts because he is trying to gauge the public reaction. Some us tried to warn you last fall, and before that, and now it is unfolding. Adam Kinzinger is a moderate republican, not a "radical leftist", and he says its almost time to take to the streets. We fucked around and found out.
No. We didn't. They did. The ones who voted for him.
But I think they knew that all along. They want authoritarianism. It's the only way they know to bring back the old days of oppression and persecution of minorities, LGBTQ+, women, and any body that doesn't look like them, praise God like them, or thinks like them.
So much for patriotism and the ideals of the American Republic
oh yeah, the summer of maga love ...
I think most of us were brought up with the idea that America and the American system were the good guys.
And now we are going against all that. All to oppose "the other'.
those that support a POTUS that thinks he's above the constitution are in for a rude awakening this summer ...
So he's advocating insurrection? I guess the whole "insurrection is the worst thing ever" lasted two months without a Democrat in the White House. A little longer than i expected actually.
He probably doesnt want to wait four years on the hope Trump will leave peacefully.
We should have demonstrations with millions of people in the streets NOW not later and not even in a little while.
where have you been? insurrectionists are protected by trump now ...
We should have demonstrations with millions of people in the streets NOW not later and not even in a little while.
It’s unfortunate that this kind of public attention is also like crack to Trump. Chaos is his baseline and he loves it.
There wont be a meaningful election for 18 months and even that may not be that meaningful. If the Democrats make gains in 2026 Trump will claim the election was stolen and go back to what he was doing (wrecking the country). Only a mass movement can take the wind out of his sails at this point.
I get it. Just pointing out how this demented psycho simultaneously feeds off of mass movements. As long as he’s the center of attention the subject and severity don’t matter to him.
maga disappearing without recourse might create a disposal problem in a few years. meh, there's probably an abandoned open pit mine in the deserts of arizona or nevada ... /s