Blasphemous Rumors?
I think that God's got a sick sense of humour."
How does this song speak to you?
How is this song blasphemous?
Can a 'creature' call its (supposed) Creator sick?
I don’t know what it is I believe in, but I know that I feel a sense of some kind of higher power, for lack of better words.
[Dave Gahan -lead Singer Depeche Mode 2008.]
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
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Depeche Mode - Blasphemous Rumours (Official Video) |
Girl of sixteen Whole life ahead of her Slashed her wrists Bored with life Didn't succeed Thank the Lord For small mercies
Fighting back the tears Mother reads the note again Sixteen candles burn in her mind She takes the blame It's always the same She goes down on her knees and prays
I don't want to start Any blasphemous rumors But I think that God's Got a sick sense of humor And when I die I expect to find Him laughing
I don't want to start Any blasphemous rumors But I think that God's Got a sick sense of humor And when I die I expect to find Him laughing
Girl of eighteen Fell in love with everything Found new life in Jesus Christ Hit by a car Ended up On a life support machine
Summer's day As she passed away Birds were singing In the summer's sky Then came the rain and once again a tear fell from her mother's eye…
Source: LyricFind
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Is God a "he"?
Can God "laugh"?
Can God "cry"?
Can you reimagine God as 'sick'?
NOTE: Please respond with your thoughts on the video posted above. All thoughts on the subject are welcomed.
"At noon, Elijah began making fun of them. “Pray louder!” he said. “Baal must be a god. Maybe he’s day-dreaming or using the toilet or traveling somewhere. Or maybe he’s asleep, and you have to wake him up.” - 1 Kings 18:27
"6 the Lord regretted making human beings on the earth, and his heart was grieved." - Genesis 6:6
"Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." - 1 Samuel 15:3
"Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks!" - Psalm 137:9
When you think about it, the God of the bible does display many emotions we can only admit are human in origin, which does lead me to believe that it is far more likely that the God of the bible was created by man, not the other way around.
I have to admit, when "Blasphemous Rumors" came out I was in my twenty's and an evangelical pastor in Ohio. My first reaction was that it was truly a blasphemous song and I was shocked, but at the same time I also agreed with much of the songs message. I later became a fan and bought all their albums (well cassette tapes then CD's) when they came out, even some British imports that were hard to find here in the States and saw them in concert several times through the 1990's.
Or, is it humans who write about spiritual beings ascribe "what they know similarities" to the deity?
Keep this in mind, the 'books' are projected toward humanity and not 'above.'
And what would a SICK God come across as anyway?
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DP! You one upped me in this regard: I never saw Depeche Mode Live. (How was it? What they sound like being there)?
They sounded amazing live, perhaps only eclipsed by my other favorite band which I saw half a dozen times, Rush. And that is in comparison to a lot of other bands I saw live back then, David Bowie, Janes Addiction, The Cure, Red Hot Chili Peppers, NIN, Henry Rollins, Ministry, Metallica, Perfect Circle, Tool, Siouxie & The Banshees, Peter Murphy, Living Color, Ice T, Killing Joke, The Chemical Brothers, Snake River Conspiracy, Kid Rock, Chris Isaak, Crystal Method, I even saw Bonnie Raitt, Pink and Lenny Kravitz. After I left my church and moved to California in 1992 I started going to nearly half a dozen concerts every summer. I guess in a way I felt I had to make up for lost time
Excellent! What else can I say? Tain't much that can compare to being 'there' where a quality band is! (Toothiest smile ever!)
That is Elijah 'joking around.' (Funny stuff.) But, . . . do you imagine Heavenly 'staff' have a laugh track rolling?
I feel I have to give this a 'fair airing.'
How does this song speak to you?
How is this song blasphemous?
Can a 'creature' call its (supposed) Creator sick?
I had to comfort the parents of a girl who took her own life and used scriptures to claim that she was in a better place and that God wouldn't send her soul to hell simply because she committed suicide and that God would know her true heart and judge her on that and that they would someday see her again in the Kingdom of God. While they seemed to appreciate my attempts to give them hope and comfort, I felt a bit slimy knowing I had no way to prove anything I was telling them and could only hope that was true, because if it wasn't then I was just selling them snake oil. For such a supposedly loving God to have created man but then step back and watch us go through ultimate suffering here on earth, it just doesn't make sense. The bible says God is love but then how could he send peoples eternal souls to suffer in hell for eternity for the few mistakes they might make in the brief time they are here on earth.
It was then that I started to have serious doubts about what I was teaching and began to see it more as a placebo which even if not true, could help people find peace so I kept dishing out the placebo for a few more years. When I told my older brother who was also a minister that I had serious doubts and was having a crisis of faith when going through my divorce he told me to just "fake it till you make it". I tried but eventually could no longer do it, I felt like the blind leading the blind and just an imposter teaching something I didn't even truly believe in.
I think that's fairly self evident as it's openly calling God cruel and vindictive based upon the suffering humans go through without any apparent intervention on his part, letting those parents of children who have killed themselves, or lost children to disease or fatal accidents suffer a pain worse than death. If this world is truly governed by this God and he has the power to intervene but does not then yeah, he's sick. If he doesn't have the power to intervene then he's not really God.
Definitely, in fact there is no better judge than those who are powerless in the palm of a creator who can create and destroy on a whim. If I could create grasshoppers but then chose to hold them in the palm of my hand and pluck their wings and legs off one by one before ultimately squishing their heads, would I not be sick regardless of my ability to create grasshoppers? If there was some sound reason behind creating them and then killing them wouldn't a compassionate creator do so in the least painful manner, not the most painful? It's easier for me to believe there is no God than to believe there is a God that would allow humans to suffer as they have for so long. It's easier to believe there is no God than to believe there is a God but one that refuses to conclusively prove to all humans who he/she/it is and what it wants from humans instead of just letting them invent thousands of Gods over thousands of years, all giving their God's a myriad of different attributes with a myriad of different ways he/she/it wants to be worshiped, especially if something like our eternal souls outcome was on the line.
But, as a former minister of faith. . . why did you feel compelled to prove "faith" to anyone? That is, the "duty" of faith is not to 'sell' proof or anything else.
I do have an issue with people who "job" in ministry. Because a great number (not all) go too far in their analyses, assessments, and downright preaching/teaching deliveries. They basically leave the 'anchor" of what faith is and try to answer questions and situations from silence.
How do you know what "ultimate suffering" is? Is ultimate suffering dispensed to everybody that lives? What is "ultimate suffering" as a material matter?
Ultimately, "Hell" as it is labeled in scripture is a dwelling place for beings separated from God. Are we really clear as to what goes on there (scripturally)? Should we care about beings captured in such a place. Is it our 'job' to govern "Hell" if we don't plan on holding stake in such a place?
Is a material thing. Many experience it. I can see it happening to those men (and women) who have to stand before the public and "present" for a living or way of life. Surely, I can see it for the laypeople as well over time.
This leads to a larger (set of) question: Should God (and the Godhead) just FIX the world and all its problems, complexities, dilemmas?
What would the FIX look like practically?
Would the FIX leave humanity,. . .human?
I can see that. But then one might ask what led you to such a belief in God once in the first place? No really. And do you suppose you could believe again? Even without these important questions and answers?
Obviously suffering is subjective, but from the number of parents I've known and now being a parent myself I can't imagine a suffering worse than being helpless while watching your child either be self destructive or suffer something like an incurable disease or fatal accident or suicide.
No, and that's also something that leads me to believe there is no creator watching our daily lives as good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people all the time.
Again, suffering is subjective and what might be ultimate suffering for one person may not be for another, we each have our own limits. In general it's whatever trauma, pain, or experience that makes us feel as if our hearts are breaking which most often happens when something or someone we care about is being destroyed or has been destroyed sometimes right in front of our faces without our ability to change the outcome in any way. It's also usually something that most people would consider "unfair" like watching your young child slowly die of an incurable cancer compared to watching a grandparent who has lived a long life suffer the same. While they may both be painful, the child dying way before what most would consider "their time" it adds a deep sense of unfairness to the trauma.
That is one interpretation, I was raised to believe it was an actual place of fiery torment, other religious believe it's simply the grave or "sheol".
There are many differing interpretations so I suppose one may pick and choose their hell, which also seems to indicate that it's an invention of man and not of some God.
Whether we should or not seems immaterial since most humans do care about those they are close to and so when they die would likely care about whether they were in a place of eternal torment or eternal comfort or perhaps no where at all.
Well first one has to decide whether souls exist, then whether a hell exists or not, then decide what type of place an afterlife might be since there is no clear definition of it. I think trying to "govern" something like that would be like trying to govern Neverland and deciding what punishments you'd employ and crimes you'd convict Captain Hook of.
Well I think it's pretty clear that this earth we live on wasn't created for humans considering all the dangers it has, there are a million and one ways for humans to die if they're not careful. If this earth was created just for us you'd think it wouldn't be trying to kill us 24/7. Only through thousands of years of physical and social evolution have humans largely stripped it of its teeth and made it easier for humans to survive on it, though even that has led to a tipping point where our own activities are now turning some places into uninhabitable wastelands.
Well just a planet that didn't have so many constantly mutating viruses or climates that were fatal to humans would be a start.
That would be subjective, we are very different than our ancestors from hundreds of thousands of years ago, but we still consider them our ancestors and would ourselves be considered their descendants and call ourselves "humans" whether we were living in a cave or a high rise. Our average lifespans have increased dramatically over the last few centuries but we still consider ourselves "human", even if we eradicated death completely I believe we'd still consider ourselves human.
Still, your "actual" depiction of the place is separated from God, yes? God would not inhabit a 'fiery pit' or grave, yes?
There are many differing translations of the word and conceptualization of Hell—real or imagined. However, if it an "actual place" that location is definite. Moreover, that place seems not to be leaking out information!
It is material. This material world is for the living. What goes on beyond "the grave" is factually unknown to us. Though, we are told to expect more in another or other realm or realms.
Friend DP, assuming (for the sake of discussion) there is an "actual place": ⇡
How about a spectrum "lock" whereby humanity is invincible to pain, impervious to viruses, and world-wide climate remains a constant, steady, 72°?
Were God to lock the spectrum (of things) to the aforementioned conditions, would it FIX the world, and a generous several of its problems, complexities, and dilemmas?
It comes down to what exactly is the purpose of living on this dangerous rock if the true point to existence is in a spirit form we'll spend an eternity as but just a handful of years here in the material world. So either, this is all there is and we should make the best of it and try to survive the best we can, or we're put here for some unknown reason to suffer and die in the mortal world as some masochistic initiation to our true purpose which apparently is to just be a useless sidekick to an all powerful creator being who doesn't actually need us but that we desperately need or we'll live in eternal darkness away from the creator as punishment or perhaps tormented in a fiery pit for eternity as punishment. Either way you slice it I can't see either option as anything fulfilling or desirable. It's far easier to believe this is all we get and that we should make the most of it while we're here.
You are able to answer this one: Was Jesus' life meant for masochism purposes?
Just so everybody knows. I loved this song in the Eighties. At the time, I was not a Christian believer when it was making its journey up the charts and 'rounds' culturally. But recently its anti-believer message struck me solidly in the 'face.' As though I am hearing it for the first time.
Good Sunday, team! I have 'corrected' my missing vid issue (it was a late night go of it there): Check it out!
How does this song speak to you? How is this song blasphemous ? Can a 'creature' call its (supposed) Creator sick ?
For the record:
The lead on this song now looks like this and this is his back story:
Gahan is a recovering heroin addict. He has survived four brushes with death, living up to the nickname "The Cat", which paramedics gave him during his roughest years in Los Angeles. [48] In October 1993, Gahan suffered a minor drug-induced heart attack during a performance in New Orleans, leaving his bandmates to improvise an encore without him. [49] The second brush came when he attempted suicide by slashing his wrists in August 1995: "It was definitely a suicide attempt," said Gahan, "but it was also a cry for help. I made sure there were people who might find me". [50]
On 28 May 1996, Gahan overdosed on a speedball at the Sunset Marquis Hotel in Los Angeles, which resulted in his heart stopping for two minutes until he was revived by paramedics . [48] He said of the experience, "All I saw and all I felt at first was complete darkness. I've never been in a space that was blacker, and I remember feeling that whatever it was I was doing, it was really wrong. Then the next thing I remember was seeing myself on the floor, on the steps outside my hotel bathroom, and there was a lot of activity going on around me. I tried to shout out "I'm up here!" from wherever it was I was floating but nobody could hear me. In some ways it was very liberating. Then I came to and a cop was handcuffing me. It certainly wasn't a place I'd like to visit again." [14] Several months later, after facing drug charges, Gahan sought help at a rehabilitation center. [51]
On 12 May 2009, shortly before the band were due onstage in Athens , Greece, for a concert on Depeche Mode's Tour of the Universe , Gahan fell ill in his dressing room . He was rushed to hospital where it was initially suspected he was suffering from a bout of gastroenteritis . [52] An ultrasound revealed a malignant tumor in his bladder , which was removed. [53] [54] This resulted in several postponed shows, and Gahan underwent cancer treatments during the remaining three months of the tour. [55]
Gahan later suffered a torn calf muscle while performing in Bilbao, Spain , on 9 July 2009, resulting in two further cancellations. [56] After a two-week break, he and Depeche Mode returned to the tour for their North American leg. While performing in Seattle on 10 August 2009, Gahan again suffered injury, this time straining his vocal cords. Doctors ordered Gahan complete vocal rest, resulting in two more cancelled shows. [57] [58]
In May 2011, Gahan was honored at the seventh annual MusiCares MAP Fund Benefit Concert in Los Angeles [59] for achieving more than 10 years of sobriety. [60]
DP! The same lead singer in the Eighties "presently" in late 2000's. He has grown and gone through some experiences. Member of the Greek Orthodox Church, I read. (I need to get better informed about the church part, I admit.)
Oh well - I tried. No "in-depth" discussion broke forth.
Depeche Mode - Personal Jesus (Official Video)
Songwriters: Martin Gore
For non-commercial use only.
Data From: Musixmatch
Okay! Guest to this group can comment without being made members! Hope it helps garner some SUPPORT!
Mostly it reminds me of how much I miss pre-Violator Depeche Mode. Except for Fletch. Fletch annoys the hell out of me.
But seriously, the song is just Martin's version of the classic question: If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, ever-present, and good, loving and just, then why does he let bad things happen to good people? A girl who 'finds Jesus' getting hit and killed by a car, or other things like innocent children dying of cancer (not mentioned in the song, but the same thing).
Martin is just reasoning that if God actually exists, and is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent (like the story goes), then he must be a sadist, not good, loving, and just. The observation has to be as old as the Abrahamic faith itself.
I always thought the song was okay, but it was never one of my favorites. Now, for something a little more fun...
... Sitting target, sitting praying, and God is saying ... Nothing. Nothing.
Hmm. Going to have to 'raise' you one.
Depeche Mode - Walking In My Shoes (Live on Letterman)
Songwriters: M. L. Gore For non-commercial use only. Data From: Musixmatch
People go through 'stuff.'
Songs of Faith and Devotion was Dave's most drugged-up effort yet. He almost didn't survive that one, and the band didn't. Alan left not long after the tour.
I like a couple of songs on that album, but it's mostly bleh, IMO.
Dig, what is confounding to me is why people come off as locked into a mindset that God, who is not fleshly, could exist seeing the 'human condition' and differing states flesh become and not do anything to change humanity—if that was really God's intention.
What about humanity trying to glean God's perspective? What might humanity represent to God?
It's impossible to really know anything about a fictional, imaginary construct like 'God'.
All you can do is look at the claims people make and see if they make any sense. To my mind they never do.
Does the song have humanist overtones, in your opinion? For example: "Personal Jesus" - is a provocation.
Are you talking about Blasphemous Rumors or Personal Jesus? I don't know what you mean by humanist overtones anyway.
DM was a fun electronic band that IMO was best in the mid to late 80s. They weren't overtly political, anti-religion, or anything else. They were four guys just trying to make fun or interesting music they could sell, like most bands. Don't try to read too much into any of it. Probably a waste of time.
"Humanist overtones" has no meaning to you?
I "lived" Depeche Mode in the Eighties. Emphatically. Love the songs then-now. (Just imagine me in my XM- Channel (33)). This is why I thought to bring the song(s) up. In the Eighties, I honed in on the sound and "the message" but it didn't affect me beyond the beat. Looking back, I can plainly see that Depeche Mode was dabbling in humanist thought:
Blasphemous Rumours?
Personal Jesus?
Plain as day.
I didn't know what you meant by it. But sure, I suppose you could say there's humanist overtones in Blasphemous Rumors. Other songs, too. So what?
See @11. People flirt with many philosophies and ideologies when young, which may not stand the 'test of time.' You follow my drift, Dig? I know I changed too. See @10.
Dave was just the singer. Martin wrote the song.
You might enjoy this archived article from 1993.
Really good article. Really good. Dave is the singer, yes. On reflection: That is a really nice article!
Takes me back to high school when I would listen to "Blasphemous Rumours" on "repeat" (read rewinding over and over) after going through a painful breakup. Depeche Mode and The Cure got me through a lot of hard times...
Emphatically. The Cure was/is the 'fhit.' What an 'invasion'! Depeche Mode too.
Don't get me wrong people. I love Depeche Mode (always have and always will). I love the group enough to be able to 'go there' with their messaging and 'investigate' how and if it has changed over the years. That's all.
This article is not meant to slam Depeche Mode.
What I want to research further is things like the lead singer of Depeche Mode Dave Gahan growth over the years. He has suffered many ordeals in life and my understanding is he is a member of a religious organization: Greek Orthodox Church. I will have to delve further into it.
Life and time changes and influences us all one way or another.
Thanks, to each commentor, for your support. It helps more than you may know! Keep those honest and invigorating ponts of view coming! (Smile.)
It's how we 'grow' as human beings.
I was a fan in the 80's. Bought a lot of their stuff on vinyl while I was in Germany. I had a roommate that was super into classic rock stuff. One day he comes in and starts raving about this new music - DM. Then I told him I've been playing for months and he originally told me he didn't like it and didn't want me to play it in the room. I ended up selling him all my vinyl before he left and took his turntable with him including the DM.
I love the twist and turns in the sounds from the 80's. Love classic rock too! (Chuckles.)
Is there anything good about God, you wish to share?