The Mind of a Flat Earther

Imagine how much effort this guy puts into finding ways to be so wrong about so much.

Imagine how much effort this guy puts into finding ways to be so wrong about so much.

I think it comes naturally to him. No effort required. Just willful ignorance.

Just willful ignorance

hey, wait a minute...

Yes?

Just willful ignorance.

The very definition of willful ignorance.

Imagine how much effort this guy puts into finding ways to be so wrong about so much.

Ah yes, the making of a fine politician. I thought this theory had been proved wrong by the ancient Greeks and verified when the Nina did not sail off the edge, there be monsters there.

Flat earth= Flat linned

Imagine what that ignoramus would have to say about quantum mechanics.

I’ve got a copy of What the Bleep - Down the Rabbit Hole that has six full dvds worth of the movie plus additional interviews with all the scientists who are in the movie.  I break it out every few years and watch parts of it.  Just finished rewatching the entire ten hours +/- of material the other day.  It’s still amazing to listen to such advanced concepts, even though they’ve been around for a while now.  Some of these intellects speak of things that I struggle to accept, but it is still fascinating to hear such bizarre theory from such advanced thinkers.

Both sides of all arguments are not equal. False equivalencies are on their faces false. Some opinions are not worth a damn...

Many people "reason" like this guy. They know a few facts, but don't have enough depth and breadth of knowledge to put their facts in context.

Instead of recognizing that their knowledge is limited (and that offering any opinion would be playing Sorcerer's Apprentice), they jury-rig strange edifices like this guy's flat Earth.

This is exactly the mechanism that leads to having near-unanimity among climate scientists concerning AGW, while illuminated amateurs continue to "disagree".

The simple reality today is that John Doe doesn't "know" any topic thoroughly. We have no choice but to depend on experts. When amateurs take precedence over experts, we get... Scott Pruitt... Betsy DeVos... Steve Mnuchin... oh, wait...

Many people "reason" like this guy. They know a few facts, but don't have enough depth and breadth of knowledge to put their facts in context.

They must do one other thing - be incredibly bullheaded.     I can work with people who lack information in a particular area.   But there is no excuse for stubborn ignorance - especially when one denies such well corroborated information such as the Earth being a spheroid.

We have no choice but to depend on experts. 

But we can verify that these experts are correct (in many cases).   While a small minority actually comprehends time-dilation (and even fewer can work with the field equations) our GPS system works only because it takes time-dilation into account.   Less esoteric examples include common technology such as that which enable us to communicate on NT.

Of course, your GPS example is dependent on the expertise of the engineers who created the system, and your knowledge of it is via an "expert source".

IMNAAHO, there's a better argument about vulgarisation of expertise. We amateurs may not have direct experience of much, but we have heard so many concordant, coherent stories that for them to be erroneous would require a literally incredible series of alt-explanations. Occam's Razor tells us to "believe" the experts.

Of course, your GPS example is dependent on the expertise of the engineers who created the system, and your knowledge of it is via an "expert source".

I often include secondary examples in my comments such as ...

TiG  @ 5.1  - Less esoteric examples include common technology such as that which enable us to communicate on NT.

Other examples include our mobile devices, vehicles, skyscrapers, bridges, battleships, spacecraft, ...   Much of what we have today (the work of engineering and construction) would not be possible if science did not 'work'.   We do not need to trust the expert scientists -in every case- to know that their findings are valid.

We amateurs may not have direct experience of much, but we have heard so many concordant, coherent stories that for them to be erroneous would require a literally incredible series of alt-explanations. Occam's Razor tells us to "believe" the experts.

I think this applies nicely to areas of science such as evolution, cosmology, quantum dynamics, etc. where direct application is difficult for people to realize.   (Most people do not recognize the correlation of vaccine technology with biochemical evolution.)

I think this applies nicely to areas of science such as evolution, cosmology, quantum dynamics, etc. where direct application is difficult for people to realize.

Yes. And if we accept the "truth" of the hard sciences, and thence the ones you cite... it is intellectually difficult to "deny" climatology (for example). It is incombent on the denialist to explain why s/he accepts particle physics as "truth", but not climatology.

These guys do the same thing theists do, start with a premise, then go about digging up whatever they can to support what they want to be true.

Confirmation bias

the same thing theists do

That's a kinda sorta broad brush, wouldn't you say?

All theists trashed in one sentence. Wow.

I want to be 40 years younger and marry her! What an intelligent woman and our conversations would be more stimulating then anything else we could do! I mean she is physically attractive in her own way, but that has nothing to do with it. I am so attracted to her in a different way that is impossible to describe! I could spend days, weeks or years talking to her about so many things. There are so many things about astrophysics that I could learn from her and discuss one on one with her as another person interested. Get me her, a latte, an endless sunny afternoon at a sidewalk cafe and I would be in heaven!

that was a female ?

Uh..yeah.

Trump loves the minds of Flat earthers,

but, apparently, only

purchases and marries well endowed, with his only well intentions, as intended, and illustrated via his artful Porny Stormy Jack Daniels kept in his ignorant igloo playmate coolers, cause they're too hot to not handle with rubber

gloves, that have reservations usually reserved for those waiters and waitresses waiting for the check to come in the mail from the male, man, who can't fill up a reservoir dog, with his little cheap ass reservoir tips, he has to Q, so as the cow tips over, from all the bovine excreted out his big mouth, bass playing turd flushing, all orange and such, with whirl wind flair, from a bnase that jumped, like they just didn't care, too much 

I only listened long enough to hear the caller ask how water stays on a sphere.  My first thought was "gravity?" and good to know I was right.

But....if the earth were flat, water would run over the side. The Earth would have no water if it were flat. Somebody should ask a flat earther about that

The Earth would have no water if it were flat. Somebody should ask a flat earther about that

their argument wouldn't hold water, because obviously, the earth is flat, and would have and to hold, no water, till it broke, and flat earther children would have to be aborted, due to the lactose    of tolerance    and  science fiction overloaded, that fails to keep them even the tiniest tit bit abreast of the whole milk shortage, that allow more than the 1%'s want for even the 2%

to have and to share, till death due them, is not so far apart

They have so much more patience with this idiot than I could ever manage.

I think I need to find a better way to view recent posts. Perusing the main page apparently doesn't cut it. This is four days old and I only saw it for the first time earlier tonight. I didn't respond at the time because I needed to go and do the final assembly on my new garden tiller which arrived in a big box  today , and of course when I finished and came back this was no longer on the front page and I had to find it in my history. Grrrr.

Anyhoo...

I watched the video and all I can say is...WOW. I mean, was it a prank? Some kind of baba booey thing? Call in to a radio show and intentionally say the stupidest shit possible?

I was having a hard time believing this guy was serious, but if he was, then... again, WOW. Actually, I feel a little sorry for this guy. It must be hell going through life being that frikkin' dumb.

Satellites aren't real? They're all a conspiracy? That's even dumber than the idea that the moon landings were faked. And did I actually hear him say that gravity isn't real either, because Mercury hasn't fallen into the sun? JESUS!

Ugh. It seems like every other day I'm confronted with yet another reason to lower my expectations of my fellow humans. I honestly didn't used to think there was this much stupidity out there.

It's also a shame that the girl who had to deal with the caller got the moon thing wrong. It's moving away, not toward us. That was highly cringe worthy. And I kept hoping she was going to do better job of explaining how orbits work, i.e., why orbits are possible. I kept waiting for that old classroom cannonball method of explaining the relationship between the vertical pull of gravity and the horizontal velocity of an object, and how you end up in free fall (orbit) when the two are balanced just so. You're constantly falling, but you just keep missing the ground. When told properly, that one makes it easy as hell to understand. But noooo.

That whole video got on my nerves. I think I need to go watch the Falcon Heavy launch again. Yup. Non-stupid people doing something amazing. Hopefully it'll improve my mood.

Speaking of that, did anyone see the flat Earther freakouts (or any of the stuff from the 'space flight is impossible' crowd) on YouTube over the real-time, live-feed video on the day of the launch of Musk's Tesla and Starman, with a beautifully round, rotating, spherical Earth in the background?

The video from space was faked, don't you know? It's impossible. It's all a trick, a massive conspiracy. New World Order...something, something... Van Allen Belts... something, something... wake up sheeple... blah, blah, blah.

How can there be so much of that crap out there?

We're doomed. 

Well there is a lot of crap out there. A survey in Great Britain found an astonishingly 52% of those surveyed believed the moon landing was faked! This was especially bad among the younger people who had 73% didn't believe it!

They also had some other very odd beliefs.

iflscience

I didn't respond at the time because I needed to go and do the final assembly on my new garden tiller which arrived in a big box today, and of course when I finished and came back this was no longer on the front page and I had to find it in my history.

When you find an article of interest, click on the Discussion Notification symbol (top right corner of the article).   This will cause all future comments to be placed on your tracker - you will thus not miss anything.  

WOW. I mean, was it a prank?

Unfortunately these flat Earthers are serious.   They are even organized (to a degree).   Recently they had a convention.

When you find an article of interest, click on the Discussion Notification symbol

Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Only shows up if new comments are made, though.

Recently they had a convention.

I saw some video of it on YouTube, but I haven't watched any of it. I bet it's painful.

Would you happen to know how they explain away the fact that a person can fly or sail around the world and actually see, with nothing fancier than a Mark 1 Eyeball, that the topography around them remains relatively constant from start to finish, with no drastic changes in the shape of the world around them from horizon to horizon, making it obvious that they are traveling along the relatively constant curvature of the surface of a spherical body?

Would you happen to know how they explain away the fact that a person can fly or sail around the world and actually see, with nothing fancier than a Mark 1 Eyeball, that the topography around them remains relatively constant from start to finish, with no drastic changes in the shape of the world around them from horizon to horizon, making it obvious that they are traveling along the relatively constant curvature of the surface of a spherical body?

I recall one lady ignoring the scientific basis for the question and claim that she conducted her own experiment at the beach.   She looked out over the horizon and saw that it was a straight line.   I think she used a ruler as a guide.   She did not see 'no curving'.    Another guy claimed that he routinely looks out of the windows on jets and he has never seen any curvature.

Not the first time we have encountered individuals with a notion that will persist no matter what facts and reason are presented.

Unbelievable.

Anyone can see with their own eyes the curvature of the Earth when it casts a shadow on the moon during lunar eclipses. Daily phase changes from gibbous to crescent show varying curvature, so eclipses are better, and viewing the very same curvature over several eclipses when the Earth is in different rotational positions makes it plain and obvious that the planet is spherical.

For that matter, anyone can buy a decent telescope and see for themselves the spherical forms of other planets. You can even put a camera on your telescope and snap several photos over an extended period of time of, say, Jupiter, with its clearly visible surface features, and then create a time lapse video of it rotating, making it perfectly obvious that Jupiter is spherical. Or do they claim that Earth is supposed to be different from the other planets? Are we supposed to be the only planet that's flat or disc-shaped or whatever?

I just can't understand the level of stupidity required for denying what can easily be seen, over and over and over again, with their very own eyes.

I just can't understand the level of stupidity required for denying what can easily be seen, over and over and over again, with their very own eyes.

Same here.

You can even put a camera on your telescope and snap several photos over an extended period of time of, say, Jupiter, with its clearly visible surface features, and then create a time lapse video of it rotating, making it perfectly obvious that Jupiter is spherical. Or do they claim that Earth is supposed to be different from the other planets?

I actually once saw someone use this as evidence that the Earth is flat.  She thought that because different photos of Earth from orbit didn't all look exactly the same, that they must be bad fakes.  It couldn't possibly be that they were photos of the Earth at different points during its rotation, or that the cloud cover had moved.

There are many times that I have personally experienced people holding ideas that defy all explanation.   Including facts and logic that are not rebutted - just ignored as if never mentioned.   Funny thing about human beings, sometimes we latch onto ideas and then build a wall around those ideas (confirmation bias) and then when challenged we (some) happily reject as 'obviously wrong even if I do not know why' anything that goes against the ideas.

Flat-Earthers certainly are one of the more obvious, but next we have those who believe in psychics, etc.   Add to that the YEC with their insistence that the Earth is <10,000 years old and all the truly absurd consequences of such a belief (beating their heads against well founded science at every turn).

This is partly why I find the religious topic to be fascinating.   Observing the mental gymnastics is sad but very interesting.   My conclusion thus far is that we are naturally more emotional than rational - critical thinking takes discipline and considerable effort.   'Feeling' is much easier - especially if the 'feeling' produces desirable conclusions.

I actually once saw someone use this as evidence that the Earth is flat.  She thought that because different photos of Earth from orbit didn't all look exactly the same, that they must be bad fakes.  It couldn't possibly be that they were photos of the Earth at different points during its rotation, or that the cloud cover had moved.

I never understand the 'why' of conspiratorial thinking like that. I mean, what would be the point of faking them? What purpose could it possibly serve?

I wish I had an answer for that.   My hypothesis is mental illness - probably mild, but something is likely awry in the cognitive mechanics.  I would not be surprised if paranoia is common with these folks.

This is partly why I find the religious topic to be fascinating.   Observing the mental gymnastics is sad but very interesting.

I just saw part of a video in which an antivaxxer claimed that if vaccines were so great, they'd have been  mentioned in the Bible.  They weren't, so obviously, they're bad, or at least not beneficial.

I have to wonder about her toileting habits, considering toilets weren't mentioned in the Bible, either.

Reminds me of an individual who publicly complained that the Deer Crossing signs were irresponsibly placed at dangerous locations for deer to cross the street.  

But your example is nuttier than that IMO.

I've seen that complaint.  It's right up there with a request I saw to reschedule last fall's solar eclipse to a weekend so that kids could watch .

[Edit: This was supposed to be a reply to Randy @ 11.1 but for some reason it posted as comment 12]

Well there is a lot of crap out there. A survey in Great Britain found an astonishingly 52% of those surveyed believed the moon landing was faked! This was especially bad among the younger people who had 73% didn't believe it!

What a coincidence. I was just reading through the comments on this BBC article about dinosaur footprints found on Scotland's Isle of Skye, and couldn't believe all the comments apparently from young earth creationists arguing about the age of the prints given in the article. Can't be more than 6000 years old, you know.

I wondered a bit if the comments weren't from YEC Americans just trolling a BBC article, but certain manners of speech make me think they are indeed British posters. Many of them, anyway.

Sheesh. Moon landing conspiracy nuts and young earth creationists seem to be just as prevalent in Britain as they are here.

It's like something has gone very, very wrong with the world lately.

So there are actual Dinosaur prints on the Isle of Skye from the Jurassic period and yet 64% of those in the British survey believe dinosaurs never existed. I wonder what is the hell they think made them? Loony tunes everywhere. Idiocy is contagious and spreading across the world. Trump is definitely a carrier and his followers are heavily infected.

Idiocy is contagious and spreading across the world. Trump is definitely a carrier and his followers are heavily infected.

I couldn't agree more.

Would you mind post the above quote on My Discussion page featuring my latest civic contribution to humanity: 


TRUMP'S PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND ADULT BOOKSTORE.

It is the belief of the Board of Directors and Wreckers that your quote should be a centerpiece of the Musem!

Would you mind post the above quote

It's Randy's quote.

I have came across some strange and dumb people; but, never had anybody tell me in person the earth is flat.  This article has prepared me in case I meet one