The president’s absurd, unscientific, unnecessary, and unlawful vaccine mandate is now being echoed by left-wing politicians across the nation.

In New York, after announcing that “God wants” people to get vaccinated, the new Democrat governor began  firing nurses and health care workers  who declined the vaccine. In what world does it make sense to fire nurses in the name of public health?

Likewise, the Biden administration is threatening to fire thousands of unvaccinated Border Patrol agents. On the other hand, the record number of illegal aliens streaming across the border are exempt from the tyrannical rules American citizens are forced to live under. In fact, the Biden administration knowingly has released  thousands of COVID-19-positive illegal immigrants  into American communities.

The president and other liberal politicians continue to move the goalposts every time someone has the audacity to ask when we can have our liberty back.

If Americans  distrust the administration , it’s because of statements such as this by  Dr. Anthony Fauci : “When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75%,”  he said . “Then, when newer surveys said 60% or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.”

If Biden and Democrats have their way, the pandemic-induced panic will never end. The coronavirus has given the radical left the perfect opportunity to create the utopia they have dreamed about for ages: a world of absolute conformity, where all dissenting opinions — and the people who hold them — are ostracized from polite society.

For the radical left, this is not even about the virus, or about public health. It’s about power, control, and forcing the American people to submit. 

But the American people never have submitted to tyranny, and never will. Vaccinated and unvaccinated Americans, Republicans, and Democrats, young and old, should stand together against Biden’s unlawful mandate and state-sponsored discrimination against those who choose to make their own health care decisions.

When Americans speak with one voice and demand the restoration of liberty, then and only then will the pandemic panic truly be over.

thenewstalkers

When a disease that is deadly for some is spreading wildly through the population then mandates are common sense.  There still isn't any way to treat the disease so the only common sense thing to do is control spread and protect against infection.  Even if the number at risk is small at this point in the pandemic, it's only common sense to try to protect them.  Particularly when protecting those still at risk only requires hygiene measure that everyone should be doing anyway and wearing a mask.

The problem with mandates is they require enforcement.  While the mandate, itself, may be common sense, the enforcement has drifted into batshit crazy.  And those opposing enforcement have become even crazier than the batshit crazy enforcers.  That means we have the craziest freedom fighters on the planet.

The thing about liberty is that it includes freedom AND responsibility.  Those feeding us predigested pabulum always leave out one or the other to make their batshit crazy case.  But without both freedom AND responsibility, there is no liberty.  So, whatever the crazies are fighting about it's definitely not about liberty.    

The irony is that between the vaccine takers and the natural immunity from prior exposure pre vaccine availability to present were are close to herd immunity and would have reached it sooner without any mandates.  The blue city mayors and blue state governors from the day the federal 15 and 30 days to stop the spread effort wrapped up have erred on the side of lockdowns, mandates, restrictions in almost every case compared to their red counterparts.  This conflict has been going on since early May 2020.  Now the federal government where it can do so is imitating the blue governors.  Meanwhile the economic divide between no and low restriction red states and heavily restricted blue ones is actually widening not narrowing.  We need to trust that most Americans will engage in individual responsibilities while exercising their rights rather than having a big government fascist blue state assuming we won’t and that’s they need to take our rights to compel obedience to their whims.  

The irony is that between the vaccine takers and the natural immunity from prior exposure pre vaccine availability to present were are close to herd immunity and would have reached it sooner without any mandates.  The blue city mayors and blue state governors from the day the federal 15 and 30 days to stop the spread effort wrapped up have erred on the side of lockdowns, mandates, restrictions in almost every case compared to their red counterparts.  This conflict has been going on since early May 2020.  Now the federal government where it can do so is imitating the blue governors.  Meanwhile the economic divide between no and low restriction red states and heavily restricted blue ones is actually widening not narrowing.  We need to trust that most Americans will engage in individual responsibilities while exercising their rights rather than having a big government fascist blue state assuming we won’t and that’s they need to take our rights to compel obedience to their whims.  

Maybe.  But at what cost?  The virus has already killed 700,000.  How many do we write off because personal responsibility to control spread is too damned inconvenient?  It's pretty obvious that people don't even know how to wash their hands anymore.  And wearing a mask seems to be beyond the ability of most.  There's no common sense being used because so many people don't have any common sense anymore.

If people are so damned stupid and ignorant that they can't use common sense then what are we supposed to do?  We can't depend on batshit crazy stupid people that won't use any common sense.  That's why batshit crazy stupid mandates and enforcement is necessary.  The only way to control crazy stupid is with crazy stupid enforcement.  The batshit crazies on both sides are just too stupid to learn.  Neither side has any common sense.  

There is a possibility that herd immunity won't stop the pandemic because the virus can circulate in animal populations.  Natural immunity wanes over time, too.  Since the coronavirus can infect animals as well as humans then herd immunity among humans won't stop continued infections.  We've wasted so much effort trying to protect political backsides that we've lost sight of what's really going on.

I've got no sympathy for the batshit crazy stupid people on both sides.  Mike Pence ain't gonna get my vote by pandering to batshit crazy stupid people who don't have a lick of common sense.  

Maybe.  But at what cost? 

That is a tough question.  Any death, if the death is to a person close to you is a tragedy. But a death across the country to some faceless individual is not that great an impact to a lot of people.   We know that diet and exercise have a direct impact on cancer and heart disease but we still have the morbidly obese among us. And cancer and heart disease are by far the leading cause of daily deaths.  We have PSA's and education for these but there are no mandates for everybody to out and run a mile a day, exercise daily, watch what  you eat.  And before someone comes along to talk about how COVID is communicable where as cancer and heart disease are not,  but don't. I'm not talking about how things get spread, I'm talking only about personal responsibility to yourself vs mandates.

statista

Mike Pence is pro vaccine and is vaccinated.  Look at Sweden.  They did ok.  Red states with fewer rules and mandates didn’t fare worse than states with the most extreme lockdowns, masking, and vaccine mandates.  Their economies are far better off.  

Great points.  

One Month After Biden Announced Federal Vaccine Mandate, It Still Has Not Been Formally Issued

by Kyle Becker about 22 hours agoupdated 43 minutes ago

One month after the Biden administration announced a draconian federal vaccine mandate that impacted an estimated 100 million Americans and led to mass firings of public servants, teachers, and medical workers, the federal regulation still has not been formally issued.

The Federalist reported on the ongoing fiasco in a post on Thursday that noted, “Joe Biden’s Vaccine Mandate Doesn’t Exist. It’s Just A Press Release”:

Biden’s so-called vaccine mandate doesn’t exist — at least, not yet. So far, all we have is his press conference and other such made-for-media huff-puffing. No such rule even claiming to be legally binding has been issued yet.

That’s why nearly two dozen Republican attorneys general who have publicly voiced their opposition to the clearly unconstitutional and illegal mandate haven’t yet filed suit against it, the Office of the Indiana Attorney General confirmed for me. There is no mandate to haul into court. And that may be part of the plan.

According to several sources, so far it appears no such mandate has been sent to the White House’s Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs yet for approval. The White House, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), and the Department of Labor haven’t released any official guidance for the alleged mandate. There is no executive order. There’s nothing but press statements.

Despite what you may have been falsely led to believe by the media fantasy projection machine, press statements have exactly zero legal authority.

“There is nothing there yet that gives employers any mandate,” Stephanie McFarland, spokeswoman for the Indiana Occupational Safety and Health Administration, told The Federalist’s Joy Pullman on Oct. 6. “The president made an announcement on this asking OSHA to do it, but we’ve not yet seen anything come from it yet,” she also said. When the state agency gets any further information, she said, they’ll review it.”

In September, twenty-four state attorney generals threatened to sue the Biden administration over the announced federal vaccine mandate. The state AGs issued a joint letter to the Biden administration on the lawsuit they intend to bring if it attempts to implement the federal mandate.

“We, the Attorneys General of 24 states, write in opposition to your attempt to mandate the vaccination of private citizens,” the AGs’ letter reads. “On September 9, you announced that you would be ordering the Department of Labor to issue an emergency temporary standard, under the Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) Act , which would mandate that private sector employers require most of their employees to either get a COVID-19 shot, submit to weekly testing, or be fired. Your plan is disastrous and counterproductive. From a policy perspective, this edict is unlikely to win hearts and minds-it will simply drive further skepticism. And at least some Americans will simply leave the job market instead of complying.”

“Your edict is also illegal,” the letter adds. “You propose to enforce your mandate through the rarely used emergency temporary standard provision in the OSH Act. According to the Congressional Research Service, the Department has attempted to adopt an emergency temporary standard only one other time since 1983 (and that one exception came in June of this year and is being challenged). An emergency temporary standard does not have to go through notice and comment and can be made effective immediately upon publication. Because of this lack of process and oversight, courts have viewed these standards with suspicion. Between 1971 and 1983, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) issued nine emergency temporary standards. Of those, six were challenged. The courts fully vacated or stayed the standards in four cases, partially stayed the standards in another, and upheld only one of the six.”

“Courts are skeptical because the law demands it,” the letter continues. “To justify an emergency temporary standard, OSHA must determine that ’employees are exposed to grave danger from exposure to substances or agents determined to be toxic or physically harmful or from new hazards …. ‘ and it must conclude that ‘such emergency standard is necessary to protect employees from such danger.’ Each of the italicized phrases defeats your attempt to rely on this statute. First, while ‘grave danger’ is left undefined, your own statements during the announcement that those who are vaccinated have little chance of hospitalization or death undercut any assertion that there is ‘grave danger.’ Moreover, many Americans who have recovered from COVID-19 have obtained a level of natural immunity, and the statistics are clear that young people without co-morbidities have a low risk of hospitalization from COVID-19. You thus cannot plausibly meet the high burden of showing that employees in general are in grave danger.”

“What is more, the COVID-19 virus is not the sort of ‘substance,’ ‘agent,’ or ‘hazard’ to which the statute refers,” the attorney generals point out. “OSHA, as its full name suggests, exists to ensure occupational safety. In other words, it deals with work-related hazards, not all hazards one might encounter anywhere in the world.…

read more: trendingpolitics

it is absolutely about freedom, because America is about freedom

What freedom, exactly? The freedom to wantonly and indiscriminately spread a highly contagious, dangerous, often fatal disease everywhere you go? Is that the "freedom" we're talking about? Is that what we're defending?

What happened to basic moral responsibilities to our fellow human beings?

But the need long since has passed for extraordinary measures such as    lockdowns  ,    mask mandates  , and other    restrictions on American liberty  .

That's not true, yet. It would be true if more people were vaccinated. 

But 18 months later, we have three safe and effective vaccines

They are not as effective as we need them to be because too many morons won't take the shots.

But that’s a choice that every American should be free to make for themselves.

There are several choices Americans should not be free to make for themselves. They shouldn't be free to detonate explosives wherever they like. They shouldn't be free dump toxic chemicals wherever they like. They aren't free to fire guns into the air. They shouldn't be free to hunt and fish to the point of extinction. In short, they aren't free to make choices that impact other people.

So they shouldn't be free to spread a disease that has killed 5 million people in the last year and a half, and leaves millions more of the survivors with long term damage to their bodies, when we have a safe vaccine that can stop the spread. If ONE person came to this country from say, Africa, with Ebola, all these freedom fakers would demand that person be quarantined immediately. But themselves? "No! Muh Freedom!"

Sorry, that's not a choice you have a right to. If you don't want the vaccine, don't get one. But stay your ass at home and keep the fuck away from the rest of us.

Yet, in his sweeping vaccine mandate on 80 million Americans, Biden and his public health bureaucrats make no distinction between groups based on age, overall health, or any other known risk factors.

Nor do they consider the  1 in 3 Americans who already have contracted and recovered from the virus , and thus have developed natural immunity — which multiple studies have shown is far more effective and longer-lasting than the immunity achieved by vaccination.

Why should those who are naturally immune be penalized for refusing a vaccine that, for them, is probably medically unnecessary?

Likewise, thousands of American military personnel face a less-than-honorable discharge if they choose not to get vaccinated under Biden’s order. Our troops mostly are young and in excellent physical condition, and thus have weathered the pandemic better than almost any other group of human beings on the planet.

We have experienced just  26 known deaths out of more than 200,000  coronavirus cases in the U.S. armed forces. Why exactly does Biden want to fire thousands of our nation’s finest patriots simply for refusing a shot that all evidence suggests most of them do not need?

The president’s absurd, unscientific, unnecessary, and unlawful vaccine mandate is now being echoed by left-wing politicians across the nation.

In New York, after announcing that “God wants” people to get vaccinated, the new Democrat governor began  firing nurses and health care workers  who declined the vaccine. In what world does it make sense to fire nurses in the name of public health?

Likewise, the Biden administration is threatening to fire thousands of unvaccinated Border Patrol agents. On the other hand, the record number of illegal aliens streaming across the border are exempt from the tyrannical rules American citizens are forced to live under. In fact, the Biden administration knowingly has released  thousands of COVID-19-positive illegal immigrants  into American communities.

The president and other liberal politicians continue to move the goalposts every time someone has the audacity to ask when we can have our liberty back.

If Americans  distrust the administration , it’s because of statements such as this by  Dr. Anthony Fauci : “When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75%,”  he said . “Then, when newer surveys said 60% or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.”

If Biden and Democrats have their way, the pandemic-induced panic will never end. The coronavirus has given the radical left the perfect opportunity to create the utopia they have dreamed about for ages: a world of absolute conformity, where all dissenting opinions — and the people who hold them — are ostracized from polite society.

For the radical left, this is not even about the virus, or about public health. It’s about power, control, and forcing the American people to submit. 

But the American people never have submitted to tyranny, and never will...

thenewstalkers

I got one.  I’m not going to use that fact to coerce others to do likewise because I said so.  Freedom and liberty are too important for that.  The constitution is never to be suspended not even for a pandemic.  These police state powers the powers that be acquire now they will not willingly give back once they tell us it’s over if they ever tell us that.  

I got one.  I’m not going to use that fact to coerce others to do likewise because I said so. Freedom and liberty are too important for that.

Really? Let’s test that claim.

Will you also endorse allowing women to abort their pregnancies? Or we can just let women leave their unwanted babies on the street. You know, either way. Freedom. Liberty.

Will you endorse the abolishment of all drug and other controlled substance laws?

Shall we let children buy and drink as much whiskey as they like?

Will you endorse allowing any person who wants to enter the United States to do so at any time - i.e. totally open borders?

Should we also abolish traffic laws? Including laws against drunk driving?

If someone wants to make money selling furs, should they be allowed to kill every Bison in North America?

If someone wants to make money selling whale oil, should they be allowed to hunt and kill every whale?

How about if they want to make money with wood, and they want to chop down every last tree. Would that be ok?

What do you say we let manufacturers dump their toxic waste wherever they like?

How about we let nuclear power companies dump their nuclear waste any place they like?

Let’s bring back CFCs so we can have better propellants, while erasing the ozone layer from the planet.

Do we need to keep fining people for littering?

Do we need to keep arresting people for accidentally starting wild fires when they throw a cigarette out the car window?

How about if we stop trying to “clean up the homeless problem” and just let people sleep, piss, and crap where they will.

Because I mean if Freedom and Liberty are the end-all/be-all most important goals, as you claim, then you should be willing to chuck all of these oppressive freedom-stealing laws.

And if not, then it’s time to stop bullshitting people about how important you think freedom and liberty are to this discussion.

These police state powers the powers that be acquire now they will not willingly give back once they tell us it’s over if they ever tell us that.

Actually, you have already been proven wrong on that point. Like you, I live in California, so I know you know this is true. We had a tiered system of restrictions based on seven metrics of infections and hospitalizations. In June, as each county in the state fell below the minimum numbers, and those restrictions were all lifted. They only returned when the virus surged back. So you know that government will give up these powers because they already did it.

Really? Let’s test that claim.

Will you also endorse allowing women to abort their pregnancies? Or we can just let women leave their unwanted babies on the street. You know, either way. Freedom. Liberty.

Will you endorse the abolishment of all drug and other controlled substance laws?

Shall we let children buy and drink as much whiskey as they like?

Will you endorse allowing any person who wants to enter the United States to do so at any time - i.e. totally open borders?

Should we also abolish traffic laws? Including laws against drunk driving?

If someone wants to make money selling furs, should they be allowed to kill every Bison in North America?

If someone wants to make money selling whale oil, should they be allowed to hunt and kill every whale?

How about if they want to make money with wood, and they want to chop down every last tree. Would that be ok?

What do you say we let manufacturers dump their toxic waste wherever they like?

How about we let nuclear power companies dump their nuclear waste any place they like?

Let’s bring back CFCs so we can have better propellants, while erasing the ozone layer from the planet.

Do we need to keep fining people for littering?

Do we need to keep arresting people for accidentally starting wild fires when they throw a cigarette out the car window?

How about if we stop trying to “clean up the homeless problem” and just let people sleep, ⋅, and ⋅where they will.

Because I mean if Freedom and Liberty are the end-all/be-all most important goals, as you claim, then you should be willing to chuck all of these oppressive freedom-stealing laws.

An appeal to exaggeration and emotions?  Clearly I’m not advocating for the ending of reasonable law and order or certain societal norms.  There is no evidence that masks provide enough of anything to make vaccinated people wear them.  Or that the benefit outweighs the negative impacts on small children coerced into wearing them many hours a day.  There’s no reason to make people already having had the virus take a vaccine, or to make our shortage of first responders and medical staff exacerbated and more accuse by firing the ones not vaccinated.  

And if not, then it’s time to stop bull⋅ting people about how important you think freedom and liberty are to this discussion. 

Freedom and liberty are always important to any discussion, despite his worship lord Fauci’s insistence that we set them aside and shut up and obey. He and Biden and the big tech social media and deep state are taking too much.  At this point mask mandates and vaccinating another 10% of the population by force isn’t going to make enough a difference to justify further freedom losses. Sadly as your side pushes limits on freedom in the face of resistance, the amount your side exerts may well take us beyond the point of no return as a constitutional republic we knew until Jan 20, 2021, but the stand must be taken now or never.  

  Actually, you have already been proven wrong on that point. Like you, I live in California, so I know you know this is true. We had a tiered system of restrictions based seven metrics of infections and hospitalizations. In June, as each county in the state fell below the minimum numbers, those restrictions were all lifted. They only returned when the virus surged back. So you know that government will give up these powers because they already did it.

Not really.  The state regime has been very dictator like and had to be taken to court repeatedly.  The outlying rural areas never really followed those tiers too closely.  We got the governor on the recall ballot and despite the 38-62% result, as many counties voted to recall him as didnt.  We followed the state with our elected officials but businesses and individuals flouted and defied at every opportunity.  We were largely unaffected by the first wave of the virus and when it finally hit us in early October and we went purple, the state was going to clobber us but then the cities got slammed by the second wave and we saw them close outdoor restaurants in LA while we had 25% capacity indoor dining and church attendance here.  .  The last couple of months we went through what the south and Florida/Texas did and we treated it as they did.  Like there, ours are now receding as well.  Our local economy is much more like theirs and less like the rest of here too. Our part of the state is a much better fit for Idaho, Nebraska, or Texas than our own coastal cities/counties.  The governor is now exerting powers wildly out of proportion to the present emergency.  Outside of schools and medical the state controls, there are no mask mandates or vaccine passports here. So what you and I experienced in California are very different.  

An appeal to exaggeration and emotions?  

Nope. Just an appeal to you to examine the logic of your own position.

Clearly I’m not advocating for the ending of reasonable law and order or certain societal norms.

Then your argument that this is all about Freedom and Liberty is effectively dead. It’s time for you to admit that. Freedom has always had reasonable limits. You can’t go around endangering other people and cry about Freedom when reasonable limits are put on you. The prisons are filled with people who have had their freedom taken from them, and with good reason.

There is no evidence that masks provide enough of anything to make vaccinated people wear them.

Actually there is. If you genuinely wish to be educated on this point, I can help with links.

Or that the benefit outweighs the negative impacts on small children coerced into wearing them many hours a day.

Again, there is such evidence.

There’s no reason to make people already having had the virus take a vaccine

There absolutely is.

or to make our shortage of first responders and medical staff exacerbated and more accuse by firing the ones not vaccinated.  

It’s hard to imagine a more wreckless policy than one that allows first responders and medical staff to more easily spread disease.

He and Biden and the big tech social media and deep state are taking too much.

What are they taking? We already have vaccine requirements for all sorts of things - like going to school, working as a first responder, or medical staff. That has existed for generations. This is just another one of the same thing.

At this point mask mandates and vaccinating another 10% of the population by force isn’t going to make enough a difference to justify further freedom losses.

Actually it will. Do you not understand how herd immunity works? There is a threshold where so many people are resistant that the virus can no longer spread. At 70% resistance, a virus may still spread, but at 85% or 90%, it will not. A few percentage points makes all the difference.

Sadly as your side pushes limits on freedom

The way I see it, my freedom has increased by being vaccinated. Just last night, I went out and did a Halloween activity with a bunch of other people and I felt freer to do that because I am vaccinated - and I know others are, too.

the amount your side exerts may well take us beyond the point of no return as a constitutional republic we knew until Jan 20, 2021, but the stand must be taken now or never

That’s nonsense. And you accuse me of appealing to emotion? Our Republic is doing just fine. A vaccine is not going to topple it.

The state regime has been very dictator like and had to be taken to court repeatedly.

Agreed. And when the state overstepped, a citizen could take it to court and win. That is a glorious feature of our system. You want to act like there are no limits and no redress. That just isn’t true. Remember the “law and order” we talked about it? This is part of it! Citizens winning court cases against the government is all the proof you need.

The governor is now exerting powers wildly out of proportion to the present emergency.

If you really believe that, take him to court.

The governor is now exerting powers wildly out of proportion to the present emergency.

If you really believe that, take him to court.

I do.  It’s far easier to simply defy him though.  Our law enforcement agencies don’t enforce any mandates, only providing educational materials from county health. So outside of government agencies where letter of the law compliance is needed to keep funding, the spirit was lost long ago in the small business community and among individuals.  One in every 6 registered voters in my county signed the recall petition yours truly included and here 70% voted to recall him and surrounding counties were as high as 85%. 

It’s far easier to simply defy him though.

So I guess you aren’t as supportive of “law and order” as you claim. I haven’t supported everything the governor has done, but I don’t take the law into my own hands.

Let me know if you want to learn about why it’s so important to vaccinate as many people as possible, as quickly as possible. But if facts stand in the way of just being angry at the governor, I understand.

Oh, I support local law enforcement. Attended a back the blue rally in August 2020 where I signed a recall the governor petition.