Dey Wuz Framed & I Framed 'Em ~ Creative Arts THURSDAY/FRIDAY
A FRAME is the place a photograph or painting, or, any number of other graphic images live, sometimes for many years. Because of this, it's important that the frame, and, that which it frames, work as an entity rather than individual elements.
Cosmos Flower
© A. Mac/A.G.
Native American Philosophy/Monument Valley Flags
© A. Mac/A.G.
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Share your creativity … no matter if you frame it or not.
Great Geronimo picture, Mac.
The framing you've done for your photos above is spectacular.
Not framed photo taken this morning of my dragonscale betta fish - Drogo
I can lead him around the tank with my finger almost like a dog... Speaking of dogs...lol.
Beautiful beta fish and dog, EG
Great photo of Drogo and of course, Kobe being his guard dog self.
The betta fish is spectacular enough to make a certain member of NT jealous.
© G. Gam 2020 Japan
Very colorful, Gsquared. What is it?
Hi Raven Wing I took the photo in a temple in Japan. I do not know what it represents. I just thought it looked great.
Thanks Gsquared. It is indeed very beautiful.
A fascinating photo.
Thank you!
The frame is from a wood burl.
Beautifully coordinated image and framing!
Thanks Mac. I'm very glad that you like it.
Great image!
Thank you Gsquared. So glad you like it.
What I see there is ultimate strength, and unshakable determination.
It is a very powerful image, isn't it?
It was Chief Sitting Bull's mental and physical strength, and his unerring determination that made it possible for him to lead his Tribe against the well trained soldiers in battle, and manage to save the huge number of his people.
real heroes at work
The black and white/grayscale is absolutely correct for the subject matter!
I just learned this neat trick of using a diamond gradient in photoshop to draw the eye to where I want it. It worked nicely here centering on the face of fireman in the foreground. It's subtle but effective.
Indeed it is, EG. Keeping the primary subjects in the fore of attention gives it a very realistic appearance. And by framing it with a very bold black frame enhances the drama of what is happening in the background very effectively.
Very well done!
And a very strong frame to really punch out the photo at the viewer. It's the kind of photo one would expect to see ina a magazine like Life Magazine.
Just awesome...
Thanks. We were out taking photos with the new 35mm lens at the beach that morning and on our way to grab some breakfast we happened upon this duplex fire. Everyone got out safe, but the building was a loss.
That is a great, great photo.
Looks like a stork and an Egret … nice combo!
Thank you. I was a little concerned about the egret braving the gators for a fish. He survived but came away empty handed.
Great action photo with the Egret and 'gators vying for the fish. Beautiful birds!
Amazing!!! What a great shot of the egret with gators approaching it. Lucky bird. Also, the stork allowed you to get awfully close, unless that was a telephoto shot.
Thank you. I took them both with my phone Buzz.
This little fellow's striped antennae caught my eye when he was waiting patiently on an adjacent leaf for the wind
to push him close enough to stretch out and reach the flower. The insect is smaller than a grain of long rice.
Great enlargement of the original size, and keeping the clear details in spite of the super-size enlargement. The flower looks as if it is smiling at being tickled by the insect's out-stretched antennae across its face.
Took me a bit to find him, but your description of "striped antennae" led me to him near the top left of the flower (if I'm right).
Beautiful shot, SP.
© G. Gam 2020 (Kyoto, Japan) Something seems to have got lost in the translation!
I totally cracked up when I saw that sign. I was laughing out loud. I had to take a picture of it. Funny, or what?
Just watch... someone who reads Japanese is going to tell me the translation is correct!
The youngest Son of a friend of mine married a Japanese girl when he was stationed in Okinawa. She learned to speak some English from the Americans living in Okinawa, but, it was very much "peejun Engwish". There were no more children living in Japan, so the Mother, according to their tradition, followed her Daughter to America, sponsored by my Friend's Son, and lived with them.
I learned to speak a bit of Japanese from the Daughter, and tried to 'chat' with her Mother when I visited them. As I would try to engage the Mother, she would smile kindly and nod, as if she understood me, and would say something back tome that I did not understand. One day as the Daughter, the Mother and I were siting at the table 'chatting", when I would say something to the Mother, then both of them would look at each other and kind of giggle, and the Mother would say something and they would giggle. So I would giggle too.
It wasn't until 6 months later that I learned that what I thought I was saying was not what I thought I was saying and they though it was very funny. While I thought I should be embarrassed, I could not help but laugh, as my "peejun Engwish" was so funny.
That is pretty funny, Raven Wing.
My somewhat similar story is when I used to stay with my local friend and his family in Hawaii, they would talk Hawaiian Pidgin English, and sometimes I could not understand what they were saying! I used to just nod and smile a lot...
I can't understand why the Asian people who prepare these signs don't show a draft to an English speaker before they print them out. There are lots of signs here in Chinglish like that - I once did a photo essay of them, but when I saw this one it was a show-stopper.
LOL, I remember when you posted that photo. It cracked me up. I don't see anything in the windows or merchandise on the sidewalk that would warrant that comment...
That is funny as heck.
When we were touring one of the tombs in China, a Ming tomb near the Great Wall as I recall (you sure visit a lot of tombs in China... temples and tombs), I took a photo of one of the attendants wearing a cap that said "F--- the Paparazzi" (my censorship). The attendant didn't read or speak English and didn't have a clue what it said. I think a tourist gave it to him. It was somewhat amusing. I won't post the photo on here because I don't want to get in trouble with the management!
Don't worry, we can use those words sometimes, particularly for emphasis. However, I have a similar kind of story to yours.
One day, in Zhengzhou, I was on a bus, sitting near the front on the seats facing the aisle, and the bus got crowded. A pretty young girl got on and stood right in front of me, facing me. She was wearing a black T-shirt with big white capitals that said: "FUCK YOU, FUCK ME, FUCK EVERYBODY". When she saw my jaw drop almost to the floor, realizing that I could read it, she looked embarrassed, crossed her arms over it and moved away.
When I first saw the English words on the side of the building I thought it said "Don't give a shirt". And like you, I was looking for some clothing to go with the words. It took me 3 times reading it before I noticed that it was missing the 'r' in the last word.
If you stopped at the Ming tomb, I wonder if you took the same tour I did. We did the Forbidden City and the Temple of Heaven, (I thought I did the Lama Temple on my own), the Ming Tomb, the Great Wall and the Summer Palace. However we also stopped at a couple of big sucker tourist stores - one for pearls and another for enamelware.
Do you remember if this was the Ming Tomb? I think it was.
We actually had a private tour guide for 4 of our 5 days in Beijing, and we worked with then during our stay in Xi'an. It was not expensive. The first 2 days in Beijing also included our 4 family members who were living in Shanghai. On our first day in Beijing we visited the Great Wall and The Ming Tombs Dingling. We did not visit the tomb in your photo.
They did take us to a modern department store one day. After walking around there for less than 5 minutes, we told our tour guide that it was no different than what we have at home and that we wanted to see historic sites instead.
© G. Gam 2020
LOL. I don't know if you knew this, but the stores pay the tour guides (or their companies) a percentage of the money paid by the tourists in their group for their purchases, and those stores invariably charge unbelievably exhorbitant prices geared to sucker tourists. You were right to say you would rather see historic sites than retail stores.
Since it was just my wife and myself with our tour guide, we left right away. We have plenty of department stores in Los Angeles! They did take us to a large open air market in Beijing that was interesting and a lot of fun. I have photos I took there. I will have to check and see if any of those photos are decent enough to post on here.
Photos you don't feel are of a quality to post on Creative Arts may still be of considerable interest and value to post on the Discovery group, which is a group for posting about adventures abroad, or anywhere including your own world that perhaps others have not seen but would like to.
I had arranged a private tour guide for myself and a woman I had dated (before I met my wife) who guided us through Guilin and the cruise down the Li River through the weird Karst mountains to Yangshuo, in Guanxi province - but thankfully he didn't guide us to any shops.
Thanks for the info about the Discovery group.
You clean up, I'll keep watch for that crazy dog.
There she is, run goose run.
"Thar she be!!" Goose is gone!!
Oh oh, good thing for that collar and leash - or else....
Adogable! And that is now wise quack.
For those who would like to know more about the benefits and effects of framing, and differing examples of doing so, on the "Pages" of Creative Arts there is a treatise on the subject:
Thanks for posting the link. I might try to frame a photo sometime.
If variety be the spice of life, here's a little dose of spice:
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Nice photos!
Thanks. A very tiny sample, all from different photo essays I've posted over the years.
I believe it's been for several years now, that Buzz posts, not just outstanding quality photo essays and images, but subject matter that makes this Group unique!
Thank you, A.Mac.
Very nice variety of framing, Buzz. They really do enhance the picture.
Thanks, but they pale in comparison to what A.Mac created above.
Lovely essay Buzz.
I just saw this photo on the CTV (Canada Television News) web site and thought it was so amazing I just had to share it with the members here:
Northern lights 'photobomb' images of Comet NEOWISE over Canada
Comet NEOWISE is seen streaking above the sky with the Aurora Borealis visible just outside of Vancouver on July 13. (Liron Gertsman / @liron_gertsman_photography)
Evening Buzz..Spectacular...
I'm amazed that the Northern Lights were visible this time of year. When I was in Alaska we only saw them in the winter.
That's an amazing picture!
Last night the International Space Station (ISS) flew over our house. A friend texted me and I rushed outside to see it. It was fairly bright and you could see the lights. It was moving quickly. I was only able to observe it for a few seconds, but it was very exciting.
WOW
And here we are at Friday once again. Everyone take care and be safe.
Beautiful colors!
Thanks EG.
evilgenius is right - the colours are magnificent. Lots of symbols as well.
Thanks Buzz. You are correct. Some of the animals represent Tribal Clans. Some are Spirit Guides. And some are Birth Totems. The animal symbols in each group are dependent on the various Tribes. There are also Sacred symbols as well.
Absolutely beautiful!
Thanks Gsquared. I'm glad that you like it.
This one gets a WOW, and, another WOW, RW.
Thank you for the very kind compliment, Mac. I truly appreciate it.
That is nice
Thank you charger, I'm very happy that you like it.
Beautiful Raven. I love your use of color.
Thank you, Perrie. I'm very glad that you like it. (smile)
harlequin rasbora (Trigonostigma heteromorpha) from my bigger tank. Most of the white specks floating here are super tiny CO2 bubbles for the plants.
Taken with my Canon EOS 80D & EF100mm f2.8 Macro USM lens @ f/2.8, 1/60 Sec, ISO 1000
Do those guys actually pose for you?
No, these close up shots are difficult at the best of times. I have to set the ISO high and open the aperture all the way up just to get enough light into the camera to get a decent shutter speed. Then if I get too close the fish get spooked and hide or swim too fast to get a clean shot.
I have these tiny little cat fish a 1/2" long that I've been trying to get a clean shot of for months. They sit on the bottom among the plants and almost blend in with the black sand. When I get too near the tank they all swim and hide. Ha!
I have tried to get a couple of shots of some of my fish. It ain't easy. Haha
I can't get a clear shot.
Neon Tetra. Beautiful creature.
Every time I would try to get close, they would dart off somewhere.
I use to have tanks when I was younger. This time I learned a lot more.
Like these Tetra guys like to be in a school. They are happier and live better and longer with at least six of them. I only have four though.
They do look pretty with the electric blue and red.
I have them and six hatchet fish.
Was going to add a couple more of the Neon Tetras and maybe some catfish, but of course with the virus, all plans were shot to hell.
No, but you picked some good fish for the tank though! These are one of my favorites.
They're not that bad. The background being fuzzy is actually a good thing - makes the fish itself stand out, and I thought you got the first one on an excellent angle.
That is a beautiful fish. This one looks rather smug. Does it know how beautiful it is?
A couple of seconds of iPhone video during my lunch break.
Tomorrow is cleaning day for aquariums. Also for some reason photos and video show up much more yellow than in person. The low iron ruby glass rimless 16 gallon tank to the left of this one is much more clear in photos. It's one of the reasons I'm saving up to replace this 45 gallon with a 72 gallon rimless. It will be wider, longer and much clearer.
Aw, it is private. I guess you would need to add me or something.
I get that message too.
Not a photograph but an original poem.. HAHAHA! Yes, I'm weird and I like it!
It’s Under My Bed
© evilgenius 2020
It’s under my bed
got into my head
It’s big and it’s bad
it’s happy I’m sad
Gonna hide right here
Dare not shed a tear
It’s under my bed
dripping with red
It’s big and it’s bad
gibbering mad
Gonna hide right here
From that sharp fanged sneer
It’s under my bed
filled me with dred
It’s big and it’s bad
what more can I add
Gonna hide right here
Frozen through with fear
It’s under my bed
I think that I’m dea…
You're a poet
And you know it.
Funny
Great poem EG.
Thank you RW!
© G. Gam 2020
Beautiful Nanjing
That's a really lovely photo. Very serene and peaceful.
Thank you Raven Wing
Do you know the works of 19th C. American painter, George Inness? Check it out and enjoy the resemblance.
I know of George Inness, but I was not really familiar with his work. I just checked him out. He was a very great painter! Influenced by the Hudson River School of which I am a great fan. To have my photo even slightly compared to his work is really something.
That is a beautiful scene - yet another city I never got to, but then there is just SO MUCH of interest and beauty in China it has to be impossible to see it all. I just posted the magnificent scenery of yet another city I never visited on the Discovery group.
Thank you
a very pretty place, you can feel the beauty
It was part of a large park in Nanjing. If I recall correctly, there was a sign stating it was donated by the people of Japan in remorse for their military's crime against humanity in 1937-38 known as the Rape of Nanjing.
The savagery of the Japanese military at that time spread farther into China than Nanjing (known in America back then as Nanking). I have seen uncensored documentaries that included film taken by the Japanese themselves at the time that will make a person vomit. It will take more than a pretty park to change the feelings of a lot of Chinese people.
As you certainly know, the savagery of the Japanese military at that time spread farther than China. My wife recalls her mother saying how brutal the Japanese military was in the Philippines. Terrible stuff.
My grandfather was already in the U.S. even before World War 1, but almost his entire family, including his mother and 7 brothers and sisters, were wiped out by the Germans in their village in Belarus during World War 2. A couple of his cousins survived by joining the partisans and living in the forest. What a world...
Yet, here we are today taking photos of beautiful things. And we absolutely loved our trip to Japan a few years ago. It was one of my favorite places I have ever visited.
Gorgeous! Would you mind if I painted it?
Thank you. Yes, you may paint it, but only if you promise to post your painting on here for all of us to see when it is finished!
My wife is thinking of possibly painting it, also.
Indeed that would be nice to see.
© G. Gam 2020
Borneo
This village looks like it's floating...
Indeed it does! Very beautiful. Love the varied colors of blue in the water.
Thanks! We only had one day on Borneo on a SE Asia cruise a couple of years ago. What we saw of it was very interesting.
Maybe it was.
It was either on stilts or floating. When I zoom on close on my computer I think I see stilts, but I really like the idea of a floating village.
Here is another one of my creations...
That is spectacular!
Thank you Gsquared. The more I learn, the more I want to learn.
Yet another magnificent image...
Thanks Buzz. The many compliments and encouragement that I receive from you and others here are a great inspiration to me. They make me want to learn more and stretch my imagination in creating new techniques.
I go back and look at some of the early creations I did and can see how far I have come, and often wonder, "What made me think of that? (smile)
Once again, I thank everyone for making this thread and this Group, not just a success, but a FRIENDLY, NON-CONFRONTATIONAL, CIVIL success at that!
And thank YOU for providing a place for those of us who wish to share our photos, paintings, artwork, poems, stories and for those who just want a place to come and share a part of who we are with our NT family.
It is a place that makes NT a cut above other sites. THANK YOU!!
At this point in time 203 comments, postings by 18 different members - this group has hit the jackpot.
More significant I believe, Thursday/Friday has made it to Monday!
It won't stop there....
I don't believe I am going to do this, and don't be too cruel...
But, this is what me not getting a haircut looks like.
Haha
Not too bad, Ender. I thought you were talking about looking like Big Foot, or maybe Wolf Man.
I found an old pic. Mini me... Haha
Nice pic! Good cut on the hair. Looks comfortable.
Ha. I wore those kind of shoes I had on throughout my teenage years.
We use to call them desert boots.
They do look comfortable. My idea of comfort was moccasins.
They were kinda along those lines.
Yeah....those do look very comfortable.
That doesn't look so bad. You would have fit right in during the 60s. I can tie a pony tail (back hair only - not much is on top) for the first time since I was about 2 years old, when my mother loved my golden locks.
When I was a kid my hair was white. Got darker over the years. Now it is getting lighter again. Haha
I wept because I had no shoes …
What's the big deal with hair? I lost mine years ago … no big deal …
Now before anyone jumps to conclusions … I know, it's true, for years I was a well known "friend" of many in South Philly, but that was more than 20 years ago … people can change … anyway … thanks for making this "Group" a hit … well, you know what I'm saying …
Hey, there was a musical about it. Sort of. Haha
My lord you two are a handsome couple.
I thank you for that; what I lack in pulchritude, my wife more than makes up for.
Eh, I have seen your old ball photos. I can see why she fell in love. Haha
You are correct though. She is absolutely beautiful. Stunning.
Wow! That is a very nice picture of you and your Bride. Thank you for sharing. A very lovely couple.
And I really did like the "The Godfather".
Red and I last year on the beach in St. Pete Beach FL.
I still have most of my hair, really it's mine, honest.
You both look great, but it's no family portrait without Wiki.
LOL, Wiki had to spend the week at the doggie daycare center which she loves.
Great pic.
Well, we do have some good looking people around here.
You and Red look like real beach goers. Nothing like a beautiful beach to make the world smile. Your Bride gets more beautiful all the time. A truly great pair!
I love long hair, so I think you look good,
Thank you, Thank you very much...
It is to the point I can pull it all up in a man bun. I really don't like that look so I put it all up and put on a ball cap.
Why do you bother with a ball cap at all?
My hair is long (ponytail) and I never wear a cap
At first I could only pull it back high on my head. Now it is getting to the point I can pull it back low.
Glad it's a look you don't like.
The ones where people have them sticking up on top of their head, I can only shake my head.
It is nice to get it off my face on a hot day though.
Wait a sec. You're Ender, not Elvis. LOL
not bad. I stopped getting haircuts in march and shaving in may.
The hair is one thing but I can't stand getting a beard. It gets all itchy and feels gross.
I feel that way as well. I tried growing a beard while in university, and it itched so bad I've shaved ever since.
“I saw this young man in the grand entry at a Crow Fair and photographed him during a moment when the parade halted,” Bama explains of Young Plains Indian. “I was struck by the symbolism of the wings tied across the brave’s back, making him look like a messenger of death with the feather in his hair crossing the wings as a counterpoint. The combination of outfit with dramatic attitude was a happy accident, as most Indians today don’t have quite the look of those photographed around the turn of the twentieth century. But this brave could have been living in 1879. It is something you could never get in a pose—the look in his eye was positively mesmerizing.”
Young Plains Indian by James Bama
A truly awesome and inspiring photo. The spontaneity of the photo captured a realism that could not otherwise be done. A once in a lifetime moment that cannot be duplicated.
Well done!
The amazing thing this isn't a photo, it's an oil painting by James Bama. He will take a photo and then paint from the photo.
I have four of his paintings. Ken Blackbird is my favorite of the four that I have.
This is a painting from a photo that he took of Blackbird an Assiniboine. The photo was taken in 1980 in Cody Wyoming when Ken was resting on a buckboard during a traditional Assiniboine celebration.
The link appears to be inaccessible, maybe try and repost it.
I think perhaps the link was posted from his phone. I think Kavika will need to copy/paste the image from his phone to his hard drive, and then be sure it has a pgn or jpg extension. Then post the link to the image from his hard drive.
I have seen many links posted from mobile phones that look like that and they will not open. They have to be saved to the hard drive and given a format the site system will accept.
I could be wrong, but, it may be worth a try. TiG may be able to offer better instructions.
Mr. Bama has a very keen eye and ability to paint in a very life-like manner.
If the image was from your phone, see if the suggestion I made to Mac below will work to make the link saved to your hard drive and with a .jpg or .png extension will allow the link to open.
The image was from my computer just like all my others.
Can't you see the Ken Blackbird photo....It's clearly shown on my computer. Here it is again
That's odd. I can see this one, but, all I can see of the other one is just the link and it looks like the kind of link from an iPhone or some kind of device. One of the other members here on NT posted a link that looked like that and she said it was posted from her iPhone, so it would not open, and she had to save it to her computer first and add the correct extension. That is why I thought that was what happened here. However, if that is not the case, then it must have been some kind of glitch at the time you posted it.
That really is a beautiful painting. The artist has such detail in his work. The whisps at the ends of the feathers of the headdress, the small detail of the fringe on his shirt, and bead work around his face. Just amazing detail.
I can't open your link either, even though it's indicated to be jpg.. Maybe it's a copy of a photo on google.
That is amazing. Man he is talented.
This is the 196th comment. Let's shoot for 200 this time.
This is a building at the Sichuan Institute of Fine Arts, which is across the road from where I live. I guess you can tell it's a building at an art college.
That is a beautiful work of art!
It isn't paint, it's mosaic.
That makes it even more beautiful artwork.
So, then, many artists chipped in.
LOL
That is quite amazing.
Well....I'll add to the count..here are some of the oldies......
Oldie but goodie, RW!
Thank you Mac. It's fun sometimes go look back and see the varied directions I have taken and techniques I have learned over the years. What can be frustrating is when I am working on something and doing some trial and error techniques, and suddenly up pops this really nice look, and I can't remember how it happened. And I can't repeat it when I want to. No matter how I try, I can't do it again, as I can't remember what I was doing at the time that it happened as I was trying so many different things at the time.
Another beautiful work of art.
Thank you Gsquared.
That is great.
Thank you!
This one gets a huge WOW! Really nice.
Thanks Gsquared. I'm very glad you like it. (smile)
The expression, which applies in this case, is "Oldies but goodies".
Thanks Buzz.
© G. Gam 2020 In my back yard...
That's really beautiful. If I had a backyard like that I'd never get any house work done. I'd be out enjoying that awesome taste of Nature.
Thanks Raven Wing. I do love it. We have been here for 23 years and it is my little paradise. I love being out there.
© G. Gam 2020 I saw a coyote using the jacuzzi as a watering hole Saturday morning.
The surrounding array of colors in the flowers and the jacuzzi truly compliment each other. No wonder the coyote was attracted to it.
The coyotes patrol through here all the time. We have lots of jack rabbits -- coyote food! I have never seen one drinking from the jacuzzi before.
I had a close encounter with a coyote when I was out in front recently and it came strolling down part of our hill. I think it was scared of me, but it finally ran back up the hill and disappeared. It kept stopping and looking at me as it was moving away, probably to make sure I wasn't pursuing it. We stared at each other for a while a few times. It had a very beautiful face.
That picture doesn't show the sage mixed in with the roses that bloomed a little later. We have sage in other parts of the yard also, and some of them are still blooming now. We had amazing lavendar this year, too.
I grew a lot of my own herbs. When cooking Italian dishes, as well as Southern dishes and experimenting with new dishes, nothing tastes as great as when using fresh picked herbs like Thyme, sage, Rosemary and such. The only thing I don't grow, or use, is Oregano. We don't like each other, and I can use other herbs that can make things taste just as good, if not better, than Oregano.
Sounds good! We don't use the sage or lavendar. We have rosemary growing on our back hill and one of my brothers-in-law picked some to use one time. We did grow sweet basil in a pot in the kitchen window a few years ago and it was absolutely wonderful in eggs and other things. I've been wanting to grow that again. We had tomatoes and Japanese eggplant growing in pots outside a few years ago that were pretty good. We do have a large kalamansi bush in a pot outside. Kalamansi, known as kalamundin in China I believe, is a small Asian lemon that Filipinos love. I think they are also spelled calamansi and calamundin. They are sold n nurseries. My wife grew it from a seed. It produces a lot of fruit sometimes. Since she is Filipino she likes to mix it with soy sauce in a dipping sauce and for some other things she likes. I like some Filipino food, but not everything.
You keep a very full garden, which includes herbs and spices. Eggplant is one of my favorite foods, especially, eggplant Parmesan. I make all my dishes from scratch, so I keep a fairly full supply of herbs and spices. My favorite foods are Mexican, Japanese, Chinese, Italian, Thai, German and Hungarian. So I grow my own hot peppers, tomatillos, garlic, and make my own tomatillo salsa.
However, needless to say, my favorite food is Native American dishes. And of course, Fry Bread. (big grin)
Fry Bread.. YUM!!!!
All I can say is "WOW".
Ha! Thanks
Quite the beautiful back yard G.
Thanks Kavika. I appreciate it.
It's Wednesday, so bridging the gap....my Empress:
That is really beautiful. Love the gown and headdress. And of course, the person wearing the gown and headdress is beyond beautiful.
Thank you, and Fen thanks you as well.