Looming TikTok ban takes US citizens closer to China

It seems to me that in desperation to contain China that the American government appears to have ignited a backlash, and in fact accomplished the exact opposite of what it was trying to do.  Instead of turning the American people away from China, 170 million TikTok users do NOT appreciate it and many are not only signing up to another Chinese social media platform but some are even starting to learn Mandarin.  So congratulations, freedom denying government, you are pushing a lot of Americans towards China.  And I have to laugh.

It seems to me that in desperation to contain China that the American government appears to have ignited a backlash, and in fact accomplished the exact opposite of what it was trying to do.

I remember hearing, many years ago, that The Catholic Church used to put out a list of books, movies. etc that they considered immoral so that devout people would know what to avoid.

Of course the banning had the opposite effect of what the Church intended-- for example, some people would find that list and know what pornography was really "hard core" and buy it!

II remember hearing, many years ago, that The Catholic Church used to put out a list of books, movies. etc that they considered immoral so that devout people would know what to avoid.

I don't know if The Church still does that...????

Well, you know who to ask....

Of course, the TikTok controversy has nothing to do with morality or speech.

Why not start with the real complaint?

The point that Krishna was making was that by banning something it becomes even more enticing and desirable.  The point the article made is that my banning TikTok the government accomplished the opposite of its intention.  Morality was not an issue, and an argument the "TikTok Refugees" was saying is that banning TikTok was a contravention of free speech.  It is no more than speculation that TikTok is a national security issue, same IMO as Huawei.  The accusation cannot be proven.  So IMO the issue before the SCotUS is whether National Security speculation overrules the absolute of free speech. The SCotUS, which is already tainted with ethical issues such as accepting expensive gifts and failing to recuse even when bias is suspect could, since it is bound to earn the ire of half the American public, weasel its way out of this by delaying giving judgment long enough for Trump to reverse the ban.  

an argument the "TicToc Refugees" was saying is that banning TicToc was a contravention of free speech.  It is no more than speculation that TicToc is a national security issue, same IMO as Huawei. 

Based on all China has done, we must assume the worst. Let them divest ownership and we can all be happy..

"Let them divest ownership and we can all be happy.."

Not going to happen.  Personally, I prefer that ByteDance close the platform in the USA and incite half the population (170 million American users) to blame and have bad feelings about their government and SCotUS for screwing them.

There are ten competitors ready to supply that demand. BTW, 170 million American actual "users" seems highly unlikely...

Sorry, you are right.  Statista indicated that in 2024 there were 107.8 million USERS in America.  They predicted it would grow to 121.1 million in 2027 

LINK -> Number of U.S. TikTok users 2027 | Statista

I believe Statista is pretty reliable.  I had used the numbers provided by this source.  

backlinko.com/tiktok-users

Therefore my opinion should be amended to say "one third of the American people" rather than "one half of the American people" - still pretty substantial. 

Based on all China has done, we must assume the worst. Let them divest ownership and we can all be happy..

Well trump is best buddies with China...

"Well trump is best buddies with China..."

Yep, that's why Trump had threatened tariffs of 60% on Chinese goods while campaigning for president, and more recently said he would add another 10% on top of that.  Some "best buddie".

Not going to happen.

It would only be the American operations, and I assume Bobby Kotick would be the most likely buyer.

For that to occur, two things would have to happen:

1.  The SCotUS rules against ByteDance

2.  ByteDance agrees to sell its American operation.

I guess we're going to know pretty soon. 

1.  The SCotUS rules against ByteDance

That is very likely


2.  ByteDance agrees to sell its American operation.

Not so likely.


As you say: We shall see.

I remember hearing, many years ago, that The Catholic Church used to put out a list of books, movies. etc that they considered immoral so that devout people would know what to avoid. Of course the banning had the opposite effect of what the Church intended

There was a similar thing that happened in the music industry.  I'm sure a lot of us are old enough to remember the PMRC and the congressional hearings.

Whatever that was, I assume it was in the USA cause I don't remember it.

Al Gore's wife, Tipper Gore, had an organization called the "Parent Music Recource Center".

en.wikipedia

Okay, so it was just an American thing.  However, I can't open Wikipedia.

In a nut shell, Tipper Gore and her Parent Music Resource Center (PMRC) wanted to censor music THEY thought was offensive.  (Search the "Filthy Fifteen")

From the link:

In August 1985, 19 record companies agreed to put "Parental Guidance: Explicit Lyrics" labels on albums to warn consumers of explicit lyrical content. Before the labels could be put into place, the Senate agreed to hold a hearing on so-called "porn rock". The hearing was held on September 19, 1985, when representatives from the PMRC, three musicians—Dee Snider, Frank Zappa, John Denver—and Senators Paula Hawkins, Al Gore, and others testified before the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee on "the subject of the content of certain sound recordings and suggestions that recording packages be labeled to provide a warning to prospective purchasers of sexually explicit or other potentially offensive content."

That label had the opposite affect that the PMRC wanted causing the sales of records with that label to increase.  

Okay, thanks Jeremy.  There are going to be an awful lot of Americans angry at their government and Supreme Court, and those who are making big bucks from it and those who prefer it to the usual American sites are going to run to the Chinese one.  ByteDance is big enough, strong enough and rich enough to NOT sell, so let's see what happens. 

The flock to The Little Red Book (a/k/a RedNote) is NOT just Chinese propaganda...

AP News

https://apnews.com/article/china-xiaohongshu..." > apnews...

Users  flock to Chinese Xiaohongshu, or …

1 day ago · HONG KONG (AP) — As the threat of a TikTok ban looms, U.S. TikTok users are flocking to the Chinese social media app Xiaohongshu – making it the top downloaded app in the U.S.. Some of the “TikTok refugees,” as they call …

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mothership.SG

https://mothership.sg/2025/01/us-users-flock-to..." > mothership.sg...

US  users  flock to Chinese app Xiaohongshu …

2 days ago · The United States (U.S.) Supreme Court signalled that it is inclined to uphold a ban on TikTok in the country, even as many U.S. TikTok users are worried that the app would be shut down by Jan. 19 ...

As I said when Congress wrote the original TikTok bill they need to reword it to include ALL apps on ANY device run by unfriendly foreign countries and not just cherry pick one app. Or better yet ban ANY app to collect personal data including how people use the app. I don't need YouTube or FaceBook to serve me things IT thinks I want to watch rather.

 "..,.not just cherry pick one app."

By doing so the American government has exposed its actual intent, i.e. to do whatever it can to prevent the inevitable, China's surpassing America.  Co-operating with China instead of saying competition (while actually meaning confrontation) would be better not only for the people of both nations, but the world at large.  I believe there are lots of opinions that indicate that. 

There's another aspect to tis. And that is that Tic Tok may be the most popular-- or one of the most popular social media apps amongstthe younger cohorts!

There are many people in their 30s-- even 20s! -- who are starting businesses  and who sell exclusivly online. And IIRC, Tic Tok is their #! preference. (For the most part they fell that Facebook is "for old people"-- and is too "old fashioned"!)

Although they don't like older mdeia such as fb, they do like to market on YouTube-- as YouTube has many features that help marketers. (They also like Instagram).

But TicTok seems to be the favourite!!!

So a lot of Gen Zers make large sums of money on TicToc.If they didn't have access they'd have to go to other sites where is harder to earn big bucks.

So a lot of Gen Zers make large sums of money on TicToc.If they didn't have access they'd have to go to other sites where is harder to earn big bucks.

I was going to post a few links about that here, but I think I will seedan article instead.

English is the second language taught in Chinese schools and many Chinese people speak English (which is one of the reasons why I never needed to learn Mandarin) and I'm sure many of them also check the English version of TicTok, so look at the possible millions more who get to see what the influencers do.  Young Chinese people follow what's happening in America, have American heroes, adopt English names from them.  I have a student whose name was Kobe as an example.  Will the young Chinese bother with TicTok if it's sold to an American purchaser?

People need to learn how to be uninfluenceable for their own sanity.  I go through life wondering how advertising works on anybody at all, though I realize that for many it does.  I buy stuff all the time, but it’s never because of an ad for it.  I will have car insurance from a company whose commercials I find funny, only to switch to one whose commercials I find utterly repulsive simply because they necome cheaper.  Ads on the Internet are just annoying things that I have to be careful not to touch when I am scrolling.  I record shows on tv exclusively so that I can fast forward through the commercials.  Let’s face it - “influencers” are only who they are because of how many of these worthless ads they can stick in front of strangers’ eyeballs.  If people could just control their propensity to be influenced by ads, then corporations would have no reason to pay “influencers”.

The constant repetition of a name or a logo has its effects on the human brain.  What is the first cold drink that comes to mind?    Could it be ?  Why do corporations pay so much to advertise during the Super Bowl?  Why do corporations pay for their name or logo to appear in a movie?   There was a movie I recall watching many years ago and I think it was someone like Broderick Crawford who forcefully repeated shouted over and over like "You've got to pound it into them, pound it into them, pound it into them, pound it into them" as a method to cause people to buy a product.  Why do you think the Heinz company gave a big gift to the man who survived in the jungle just eating their ketchup?  The story had spread around the world.  I would be willing to bet that the ticket sales for US Air increased dramatically once the story of Sully and the "Miracle on the Hudson" became known.  I'll bet that the people buying the airline tickets asked the sales agents if Sully would be the pilot for their flight.  

The SCOTUS has ruled to uphold the Congressional ban of Tiktok. The law goes into effect on Sunday and will no longer be available for download by new users or updates for current users.

AMERICAN PARANOIA

Tik Tok is Chinese owned.  At least you can get Tik Tok in China, and Google, and YouTube, and Netflix.  Oh wait...  You can't.  They're banned.

CHINA'S DICTATORSHIP'S RAGING PARANOIA

Why should the Chinese dictatorship have access to millions of Americans' personal information, passwords, accounts, etc.?

Well, as you know I've always been an advocate of Spy vs Spy and I don't intend to be a hypocrite, but believe it or not GG, America spies on China no less than China spies on America.  I don't think I need to prove it but I can if you require me to.  I do have some opinions however about the differences when it comes to what China bans and what America bans.  IMO America is paranoid about personal information being in the hands of the Chinese government for fear of Chinese propaganda infiltrating the minds of Americans and personal info of Americans getting into the hands of the Chinese govt, mostly for that reason.  China bans TikTok and all those American sites such as Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, etc because when Xi took over he saw that Chinese young people were getting too Americanized, and he saw that as a negative.  I was in China both before and after his takeover and I saw the changes.  Before Xi I was able to access YouTube, google, etc. 

What perhaps Americans don't understand as well, is why China uses a heavy hand in dealing with subversion, separatism, extremism, criticism, etc.  As an example I'll use what it's like to teach children.  I had absolutely no problem in keeping control of a classroom of 12 students, but I know damn well that it would be hard as hell to keep control of a classroom of 60 students.  Compare China/s population to America's - 4.5 times as many..  Do you see what I mean?   Can you understand why it was necessary to deal with the extremist Uighyrs (that are only a portion of the Uighurs and only a fraction of the Muslims in China) when they became terrorists and were attempting to separate?   What would the American government do if the Alaskans or the Hawaiians tried to separate from the Union?  

There is another reason why what China did with TikTok and what America with it, and it is a BIG difference.  It is the almost holy matter of First Amendment.  There is no proof, only suspicion, that the Chines government would obtain information from ByteDance, and wherefore art thou, the holy "Free Speech"?

I didn't waste my time with another who challenged me on the matter of China not allowing TikTok because his mind is totally closed to China, whereas you've not only been to China but have some knowledge and appreciation for China and its people. 

America spies on China

I should hope so.

Chinese young people were getting too Americanized

How is that really any different from what you believe to be the reason the U.S. might ban Tik Tok?  I was told by one of our tour guides in China that they know what is going on in the outside world.  Hopefully, the thought police will never be able to cut that off.

What would the American government do if the Alaskans or the Hawaiians tried to separate from the Union? 

There is a Hawaii separatist movement among some of the indigenous Hawaiians.  The American government does not put them in internment camps.