Bill Maher offers 'open letter' to pop star Chappell Roan on Israel: 'You don't know much about history' | Fox News
By: Gabriel Hays (Fox News)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
HBO host Bill Maher on Friday offered an "open letter" to Gen Z it girl and pop star Chappell Roan for her recent anti-Israel statements on social media.
The "Real Time" host addressed Roan, who is openly gay, directly during the "New Rule" segment of his show, accusing her of being ignorant on Israel's history and telling the star that she would be in harm's way in Gaza.
"Chappell, if you think it was repressive growing up queer in the Midwest, try the Mideast," Maher said.
CHAPPELL ROAN REVEALS SEVERE DEPRESSION DIAGNOSIS AFTER LOSING ANY SEMBLANCE OF NORMALCY DUE TO SOARING FAME
HBO host Bill Maher slammed pop star Chappell Roan for her pro-Palestinian stance during the latest episode of "Real Time."(Noam Galai / Contributor | Erika Goldring / Contributor)
Roan, who recently exploded into the pop mainstream with songs like "Good Luck, Babe!" and "HOT TO GO!", has called out the U.S. and the Democratic Party specifically for supporting Israel's war against terror group Hamas in Gaza following the Oct. 7 massacre in Israel.
She told Rolling Stone in September that she declined to perform at the White House's Pride celebration this year in protest of the Biden administration's support for the war, and in a TikTok video from several weeks ago, ripped the Democratic Party for "genocidal" positions concerning the Palestinians.
"But f--- some of the s--- that has gone down in the Democratic Party that has failed people like me and you, and more so Palestine," she said, though she indicated she would still vote for Vice President Kamala Harris as it's the only alternative to former President Trump.
Maher on Friday offered some praise for Roan, noting she has said, "I think it's important for me to question myself, question my algorithm, question [that] is some person who tweeted something about something else even true?" A delighted Maher joked, "Preach, queer ally, preach!"
However, he accused her and the rest of Gen Z of getting their anti-Israel talking points from TikTok propaganda.
"Now first off, the fact that you don't know much about history isn't your fault. You live in the United States where the schools stopped doing that whole teaching facts thing a while ago. But getting all your history from TikTok is like getting all your calories from Hostess."
Pro-Palestinian demonstrators protesting the Israel-Hamas war at the University of Wisconsin Library Mallon on April 29, 2024, in Madison, Wisconsin.(Getty Images)
He continued, "I know you're moved by what you see on there. We all are. The dead Palestinian bodies. But it's odd that your generation didn't seem nearly as moved by the Jewish bodies on Oct. 7"
He then quipped, "You killed at Coachella this year, but when Hamas kills at a music festival, it's a whole other thing. Doesn't the sight of so many young women raped at a music festival make it a little personal?"
"My guess is that Gen Z hearts are hardened by the propaganda you see on TikTok, which likes to call the Jews colonizers," the comedian added.
He then gave a brief history lesson, noting how the Jewish people lived in the Holy Land for thousands of years before it became an official country, and pointing out they were there before Islam even existed and much more before various Arab nations demanded the country be destroyed.
Maher then mentioned some of Roan's LGBTQ song lyrics and told her they could get her killed among the people she's so passionate about defending.
"You're a female drag queen, and you sing, 'I f----- you in the bathroom when we went to dinner, your parents at the table.' Yeah, that wouldn't fly in Gaza, although you would, straight off a roof."
As he wrapped up the monologue, he told the pop star, "Chappell, you're not wrong that oppression is bad or that Palestinian and many other Muslim populations are oppressed and deserve to be freed. You just have it completely a-- backward as to who is doing the oppressing."
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New Rule: Dear Chappell Roan. . . I Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)
PREACH BILL!
I do have a question that I need help/advice on. Both groups have this complex claim to the land, yes? (Due to repeat displacements throughout recorded history.)
Correct. Palestine was never an independent country, nor a kingdom. And for that matterit was never a distinct ethnic group--- rather it was a general region!
an area of land in southern Canaan
Regarding 4.2.14 It has been clarified in comment/s which came after that posting.
I am not really sure, and I mean this sincerely, and let me state this upfront. . . I in no way, shape, form, or fashion support Hamas. I do support facts. . .and as a student of the Bible and a "student" of truth I can attest to their being people in that section of the world before Israel appeared on the scene. Also, my understanding is for periods of captivity Israel 'went into captivity' and departed from their homeland in Jerusalem.
Unless I am wrong. And I could be because it is complicated to address the history of the region with respect to historical accounts.
So I ask openly to anyone who can explain this: Who came first Palestinians or Israelites in the Middle East/land of today?
According to the timeline, the ancestors of the Jewish people have lived in the region for a very long time. Ancestors of what are now called Palestinians perhaps lived their also, but the record is not clear. But the modern Palestinians came along much later.
History of the Palestinians - Wikipedia
Thank you for sharing! My understanding is both Palestinians and Israelis (today) have owned the same spaces throughout history. Wars and other conflicts forcing both groups of people (Palestinians and Israelites/Israelis) to be under the authority of other kingdoms/nations.) More to the present, it seems (to me anyway) that the issue is Palestinians are claiming that Israel is "settled" on land that Palestinians claim that records show they have TITLE to.
I don't know. Therefore, I offer to have this discussion to "listen" and learn. Hopefully, from others. . . here. . .with more insights into the historical politics of the region.
First, define Palestinians? What is there relationship with the Bronze Age nomads first settling in the region?
Answer your own questions. Encourage discussion; not stall it, please.
Nothing I wrote was intended to stall conversation but to continue it. Don’t we have to define a Palestinian to answer your question 4. Please continue the conversation.
Then, by all means, define a Palestinian and let's move on. Please. As I would think a Palestinian is someone who is a citizen of Palestine. And, as you can see from the "timeline" above that word, "Palestine" was bandied around for thousands of years in that part of the world.
“The Palestinian National Charter, as amended by the PLO's Palestinian National Council in July 1968, defined "Palestinians" as "those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father – whether in Palestine or outside it – is also a Palestinian."
When has an independent Palestinian state exercised full sovereignty over this land?
Never. Palestinians do not have a country/nation. But, somehow they manage to be a people. One that has 'waged' war and complexity with Israel for our lifetimes. I could ask you how that is possible, but likely you would be hard-pressed to answer it, too.
Only if you include terrorism as a form of warfare.
Terrorism is warfare, yes. That is, it affects national security which leads to warfare.
Not under international law.
Again, this statement lacking context is a statement without back-up.
I know international law on warfare, if you don’t, look it up.
Never!
"Palestine" was never a distinct "tribe"-- or "nation".
(If it was, they would have had their own language (what was the unique "Palestinian language"?, a series of rulers (who was the first "Palestinian King"?) their own "Palestinian currency" etc.
So what was "Palestine"? Well. it was an area. Before the Jews got back their ancient homeland (when the ancient kingdon of Israel was re-established in 1948), they sometimes referred to themselves as "Palestinian Jews"-- meaning Jews living in the area of Palestine (as opposed to Jews living, for example, in France ("French Jews")-- or China ("Chinese Jews").
There's a difference between a nation (or tribe) and an area. For example, in the U.S. some people refer to themselves as "New Englanders". That's an area-- (there is no New Englad national langual, no ruler of New England, no government issued new England currency, no unique New England language.
Thanks, but that will not be necessary.
But how can someone be a citizen of a country that does not exist-- and never did!
So our comments aren't necessary-- only your comments are necessary?
You claim you want to have a discussion-- yet when someone asks a question you refuse to answer it-- and tell the other person to answer their own question.
WTF?
That doesn't sound like a discussion at all!
Okay. . . .
It’s an old CB technique.
How is it possible that a group of people waged war...for so long?
Oh my-- 'tis a mystery indeed!
True dat-- many of us that have been here on NT for a while are well aware of what's been going on!
No, not "true dat" and let's be clear - this is OFF-TOPIC.
Allowed this time, but this is Off-topic. Please stick to the subject matter and not members!
CB, that time line is wrong. I am going to highlight the parts that are relevant
This one is correct:
Situated between three continents, the region of Palestine has a tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics. The region was among the earliest to see human habitation, agricultural communities and civilization . In the Bronze Age , the Canaanites established city-states influenced by surrounding civilizations, among them Egypt, which ruled the area in the Late Bronze Age. During the Iron Age , two related Israelite kingdoms, Israel and Judah , controlled much of Palestine, while the Philistines occupied its southern coast . The Assyrians conquered the region in the 8th century BCE, then the Babylonians in c. 601 BCE, followed by the Persians who conquered the Babylonian Empire in 539 BCE. Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire in the late 330s BCE, beginning Hellenization .
In the late 2nd century BCE, the Hasmonean Kingdom conquered most of Palestine, but the kingdom became a vassal of Rome , which annexed it in 63 BCE. Roman Judea was troubled by Jewish revolts in 66 CE, so Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Second Jewish Temple in 70 CE. In the 4th century, as the Roman Empire transitioned to Christianity , Palestine became a center for the religion, attracting pilgrims, monks and scholars. Following Muslim conquest of the Levant in 636–641, ruling dynasties succeeded each other: the Rashiduns ; Umayyads , Abbasids ; the semi-independent Tulunids and Ikhshidids ; Fatimids ; and the Seljuks . In 1099, the Crusaders established the Kingdom of Jerusalem , which the Ayyubid Sultanate reconquered in 1187. Following the invasion of the Mongol Empire in the late 1250s, the Egyptian Mamluks reunified Palestine under its control, before the Ottoman Empire conquered the region in 1516 and ruled it as Ottoman Syria to the 20th century, largely undisrupted.
1. Palestine was a region and never a country. There has never been a country called Palestine.
2. There were two Jewish kingdoms established there. The Philistines had a country there too, but they are not related in any way to the people who call themselves Palestinians.
3. After the destruction of the Second Temple, the region fell into disarray, with many different occupiers, including Christian and Muslim ones. There was never another country there. It was just a region, known as the Levant controlled by Ottoman Syria. The last known country there was a Jewish one.
The problem is that "World History" has it all wrong, and yet, people will refer to that. Then we have alternative truths. So when they say:
They are wrong. That region was not called in 2000 BCE. It was called Canaan. Even the bible refers to this place. The name Palestine is a fairly new term for the region, in world history. The last known countries there were Israel and Judah.
I think your numbers 2 and 3 hold the narrative. That narrative (as you have stated) going like this: Canaanites and Philistines are not Palestinians "today."
Now you have stated some else too:
There is this 'talk' that when Israel returned to the land and became a state/nation in 1948, the Palestinians lost their property for which they hold deeds. Is this true or false? (As far as you may have heard or know.) : )
(I am trying to understand the "deeper" truths/complexities of the region and not just skim the surface.)
Those that abandoned their property?
Deeds, issued by Britain?
I don't have any context (from you) to place your questions. . . remember it is I who am trying to COMPREHEND the politics of the region that keeps 'firing-up' and has people literally in distress and firing at each other. If you know something-just share it, please.
True.
"Judah"-- the descendents of Israelites and Judeans became current day "Jews".
So what are the so-called "Palestinians"? Arabs of course. And "Arab" is the root of the word "Arabia"-- "Arab" refers to people living in Arabia-- or their descendents.
("Arabs" are descendents of indigenous people of "Arabia"),
Key points! FACT: There has never been a country called Palestine-- Palestine is the name of a region-- not a country! FACT: And the so-called "Palestinians" are not related to the Philistines!
Yet all the antisemitic nations of the UN, and the UN itself, consider "Palestine" to be a country.
In 1948, they were also offered a country, which their Arab neighbors said not to accept. They were also told to flee because the Arab League was going to come in and wipe Israel off the map. Instead, Israel not only held Israel about about 60% more land than before the war. The Palestinians who stayed in Israel kept their property. Those who fled lost their property as the spoils of war. This is what those Palestinians call the Nakba. 250,000–300,000 Palestinians were displaced.
But what is also never talked about is that the Jews who lived in these Arab nations were forced to leave without their possessions. They obviously went to Israel, but most didn't want to leave their homes.
It is very interesting to be able to talk about this. I want it to be known that I am getting a lot out of this. One thing, I tend to remember that Wikipedia is an "editable' document so I am somewhat 'guarded' by what I read from it. That said, I am planning to backtrack on all that I am told about this subject matter at some point.
My own opinion: Only recently a new country, which could be called "Hamastan", or "Palestine" was created when the Jewish occupation of Gaza ended and the inhabitants of Gaza have self-rule.
Of course the Gazans won't admit they have self rule because then they can't claim victimhood-- and that they have no self-ruling entity.
There is this 'talk' that when Israel returned to the land and became a state/nation in 1948, the Palestinians lost their property for which they hold deeds. Is this true or false? (As far as you may have heard or know.)
There have been various groups fighting back and forth in that area-- for centuries. And yes-- many people died. And perhaps worse yet-- many people actually lost their property. And many of them had deeds for that property!
I couldn't help but noticing that you only mentioned Arabs that lost property in conflicts with the Jews. Are you aware that Jews also lost property-- and they had deeds as well.
Could it be that you are biased-- or just unaware of the actual facts? I'm gonna give you the the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not biased, but rather just not well informed.
1. Palestine was a region and never a country. There has never been a country called Palestine.
IMPORTANT POINT!
SOMETIMES i WONDER HOW SOME PEOPLE CAN BE SO POORLY INFORMED!
There were two Jewish kingdoms established there. The Philistines had a country there too, but they are not related in any way to the people who call themselves Palestinians.
EXACTLY!
iT USED TO SURPRIZE ME THAT SO MANY PEOPLE WERE TOTALLY UNAWARE OF THAT!
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you are pretending to be hearing both sides of the argument but what you are doing is, in fact, actually present information that demonizes Israel.
And then you claim you want an actual discussion, but when someone asks a legitimate question,you refuse to answer it and instead tell them to answer their own questions?
That';s not the way to have an actual discussion!
Why? Don't you think people here can see what's actually going on?
Yup-- deeds issued by a colonial power!!!
You're wrong. And worse, you are on the defensive. Worse: It appears you want me to be on the defensive. I have no agenda. Indeed I have SEVERAL TIMES OVER stated my motivation for posting this article. I want to understand/comprehend/know more about the problem in the Middle East!
There are Jewish people (friends even) here which I would never, never try to offend. But, I will not be told by 'anybody' to shut down discussion because it is too difficult or too rough.
Israel is Israel to me. Palestinians are people to me. I have no specific understanding of the region. Thus, with a number of people who SAY they know about the region on this site. . . it should come as no "SURPRISE" that somebody on the site might try to farther and clear up a few questions/ambiguities/lies even which circulate as rumor about those places and the state of the crises.
I am offended that you have taken me on this way, but I will get over it. I have no choice.
Still, for me, this is an undertaking to get answers to questions I have. Asking questions and getting answers might not be easy, is what we do here. It is still the right thing to do (on any subject). And now not all questions are answerable or good questions, so I, you, we, are not under any OBLIGATED to try to answer those of 'mockers' or ones we choose not to answer.
I remind us all of the motto of this place: "Newstalkers" Speak your mind!"
Some of my best friends are Jewish.
A one way street for you.
Whatever. We get as good as we give.
Being unaware of the actual history of the area is nothing to be ashamed of!
And what with the Internet its so easy to become well informed.
You know the olde saying:
GIYF!
What are these varying acronyms you are sharing? "GIYF" means what?!
[✘]
WTF? You ask for the meaning of an acronym, I answer you and you accuse me of trolling. So much for your ideas on what a conversation is.
Was Jesus a Muslim? Was Solomon? Were the Temples of David mosques? Did Moses lead his people to Saudi Arabia?
No. No. No. No.
But, Abraham did not have a land to begin with when he 'founded' a new people. He had to get land from somewhere.
That is true. But they didn't get it from the Palestinians. What does the bible say?
It was the Canaanites that would have a beef if they actually existed anymore.
ASKED AND ANSWERED!
(See comment 5.1.1)
Now you are getting to the bottom line, through history, clans, bands, tribes, states have taken land. Some were successful and some not. Israeli has so far been successful.
Just to be clear: 22 Hours ago. . . long before your "reply" I checked (voted up) Perrie's answer to 5.1.
And yet, it is the Palestinian people who have had this long-running conflict with Israel in the area. The Palestinian people became a. . . people at some point (I suppose) in this area. I think/thought I could get answers from the knowledgeable people about the region on this site. . .at this point in time. . . .
Good for [ ✘ ]
Did the Biblical Exodus ever actually happen?
Probably not.
By the rivers of Babylon—
There we sat down and there we wept
When we remembered Zion.
On the willows we hung our harps.
For there our captors asked us for songs,
Our tormentors asked for laughter,
Saying, ‘Sing us one of the songs of Zion!’
But how could we sing the Lord’s song
In a foreign land?
If I forget you, Jerusalem,
Let my right hand also forget!
My tongue cling to my mouth,
If I do not remember you,
If I do not set Jerusalem
Above my highest joy...
Was Jesus actually the son of God?
Probably not.
The archeological evidence is conclusive that ancient Canaan was mostly pagan and that almost all of the homes had idols and that most of the people worshipped multiple gods...
More accurately quoted as Psalm 137:5-6 King James Version:
(5) If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. (6) If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.
@ jbb:
Quoting a line from the movie titled 'Double Jeopardy' Starring Ashley Judd, Tommy Lee Jones and Bruce Greenwood: "Why are you talking to me? SHE'S the one with a gun." Shouldn't your comment be directed to Perrie who wrote about Canaan, cause I didn't.
Well, it gave us some pretty cool music...
I would appreciate if you could name the song you posted.
I'd forgotten how fun (or funny?) 80s hair and fashion was.
Link?
IIRC, Abraham smashes idols:
Terah was an idol manufacturer who once went away and left Abraham in charge of the store. A man walked in and wished to buy an idol. Abraham asked him how old he was and the man responded “50 years old.” Abraham then said, “You are 50 years old and would worship a day old statue!” At this point the man left, ashamed.
Later, a woman walked into the store and wanted to make an offering to the idols. So Abraham took a stick, smashed the idols and placed the stick in the hand of the largest idol. When Terah returned, he asked Abraham what happened to all the idols.
Abraham told him that a woman came in to make an offering to the idols. The idols argued about which one should eat the offering first, then the largest idol took the stick and smashed all the other idols. Terah responded by saying that they are only statues and have no knowledge. Whereupon Abraham responded by saying that you deny their knowledge, yet you worship them!
Does God exist?
Probably?
Or probably not?
(Y/N)
Thanks-- that is a very interesting article!
The author puts forth a good case that the Exodus never happend.
But interestingly, at the very end he says:
But is there SOMETHING behind the story? Some kind of historical event(s)? It turns out that there is some evidence that the answer is yes. I’ll be dealing with that issue as well in my course.
Cartoon: If Exodus happened in today's world:
Just kidding-- everybody knows that Jesus is the son of God!
EXCELLENT TUNE!
Yes, many legends and myths have some basis in fact. That doesn't mean that they are facts. But the Exodus is still treated as such, despite the lack of evidence that it ever happened as told.
WRT the current Palestinian-Israeli situation, what is the relevance of Exodus?
Abraham told him that a woman came in to make an offering to the idols. The idols argued about which one should eat the offering first, then the largest idol took the stick and smashed all the other idols. Terah responded by saying that they are only statues and have no knowledge.
Whereupon Abraham responded by saying that you deny their knowledge, yet you worship them!
I totally agree with Abraham!
Yes, many legends and myths have some basis in fact. That doesn't mean that they are facts. But the Exodus is still treated as such, despite the lack of evidence that it ever happened as told.
Well, my experience is that of course some people actually treat Exodus as fact-- others don't.
My own POV? I have no idea if its true-- or not!
As Trump might say, so what?
To add to that (some "believers" may find this a bit strange): I really don't care if Exodus is true or not!
Surely you're joking-- "everybody knows" that Trump is a devout Christian!
It’s irrelevant to resolving the current disagreements.
Oooops-- my bad! I "inadvertantly" omitted the /sarc tag!
Exactly, he has always been very devout.
True.
(But after all, the Internet is like that!
)
There is considerably evidence of the monotheism of the Pharaoh Akhenaten that briefly flourished in Egypt during the Armana Period of about 3,500 years ago. Akhenaten's monotheistic beliefs were then subsequently outlawed after his death and his monotheistic cults banished from Egypt. This was likey background for Jewish Exodus stories. The Ten Commandments were in fact mostly and directly lifted from more ancient Egyptian scriptures where commandments to honor the gods, ones parents, the holy days and to not steal, lie, cheat, commit adultery etc etc can be found in Egyptian going back for over five thousand years. There is lots of archeological evidence of Akhenaten and of Amarna as original monotheism. Whereas, archeological evidence of King David is that of a backwater tribal chieftain whose palace was more if a cave network than a ziggurat and whose people were not monotheistic except for a few zealots.
The First Temple of Jerusalem was built about 1,000 BC and the Second Temple about 500 BC. Ancient Canaan and Canaanites were conquered by Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome. We know this much.
Agreed!
The fact is: Christianity was "spun off" from Judiasm-- meaning Judaism came before Christianity was formed. And later on, Islam was invented.
Well, that's true, Islam is invented just like Scientology is an "invented" religion. Krishna, YOU could invent a new religion if you wanted. Just get a few celebrities to adopt it and you're off to the races. Am I hinting that people are gullible? You're damn right I am.
I already have! And I am the Guru. Interested? Want to hear more?
Just send money, then I will begin to tell you the mysteries of the religion I recently invented!
Scientology isn't even a religion-- its an evil cult.
It's already afternoon here and that was my first laugh out loud of the day. Thank you.
Its members consider it to be a religion.
It seems many of them never leave. But some eventually figure out how evil it is and leave.
And those who leave sometimes find their life endangered.
Unfortunately that's all too true:
From Wikipedia:
Since its formation, Scientology groups have generated considerable opposition and controversy. This includes deaths of practitioners while under Church of Scientology care, several instances of extensive criminal activities, and allegations by former adherents of exploitation and forced abortions.
In the 1970s, Hubbard's followers engaged in a program of criminal infiltration of the U.S. government , resulting in several executives of the organization being convicted and imprisoned for multiple offenses by a U.S. federal court. Hubbard himself was convicted of fraud in absentia by a French court in 1978 and sentenced to four years in prison. [ 19 ]
You're welcome!
Everyone here knows it’s hard for me to resist linking songs from my past to comments here:
Get up in the morning, slaving for bread, sir
So that every mouth can be fed
Poor me Israelites, ah
I think that by now everyone here knows it's hard for me to resist linking movies that I've watched to comments here.
Not everyone knows I'm unable to open items from certain websites.
And there are some who don't give a shit that I can't.
Well, you may have taken notice that I always include 'extra' typing of Youtube titles just for your 'service' and convenience.
Er, at least now I wonder if you have noticed!
That's because they are Heathens and have absolutely no compassion for their fellow man.
Tell them about the wonderful new religion I founded (we're having a Columbus Day Special Sale-- tell them to join before its too late!!!)
If they convert to Krishna's "ENR" (Excellent New Religion) within the next 24 hours their soles can still be saved)
(And possibly even their souls as well!)
Thank you. You're not the person who prompted me to post my comment about it.
"Everyone here knows it’s hard for me to resist linking songs from my past to comments here:"
I think that by now everyone here knows it's hard for me to resist linking movies that I've watched to comments here.
Well, contrary to popular belief (as per my many admirers ) I also am not perfect.
My "hard to resist" vice? When coming across really incredibly stupid/uninformed comments on social media, I find it hard to resist making incredibly feeble attempts at humour!
Now for a different perspective.
DISCLAIMER ! This comment focuses on an article written by Al Jazeera . I am including it for an open discussion and hope of understanding both sides of this lifelong conflict : I have no "favorites" or "side" in this.
( Exception : I respect the innocent lives of all - all who live in the region which are being lost and utterly 'wasted'.)
Now, back to trying to understand this region's problems. If you can help me. . . and others do so. . . by all means "Enter."
I would find a better source.
How about the Quran? It is the holy bible of Islam, the bible of the Muslims.
LINK -> Sahih al-Bukhari 2926 - Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) - كتاب الجهاد والسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
Or what the Imams (this one in America) tell their flock:
What is the factual error/s with the statements? What does not have the ring of truth to it. (It just can't be a blanket rejection of the source. I hope-at least.) Though, I can only imagine the hard feelings. . . .
BTW, I understand and can perceive bias can be in nearly 'everything' one, I, can read about the Middle East. . . it is why I am asking for one-on-one thoughts from among. . . 'us.' I have a sense, a discernment, about members here.
Oh, you are saying that what I quoted from the Quran is a lie? Search it for yourself.
My question to you is why use a source that would have a bias. There are plenty of other sources.
And why is there no mention of the Jews forced to flee Arab and Muslim nations?
And if there was full on ethinic cleansing, why are their Arabs in Israel, in their government? Why do the Bedouins call Israel their home? Don't you think there is something more to this story?
Arabs in modern day Israel 21% of Israelis are not Jewish and identify as Arab Muslims and Christians. That comes to 2,080,000 people.
Jews In Arab nations:
Egypt: 80,000 in 1948 to fewer than 100 today
Jordan: There are no Jewish citizens in Jordan
Syria: 18 Jews remain in Syria
Iran: 148,000 in 1048 to 9,826
So tell me, who is more tolerant?
Buzz, are you aware that the Old Testament talks about Jews wiping out others in the Middle East?
Because 'they' have a point of view too. And since I am looking at this issue from both, even several sides, seeking answers and "the bottom of this" (if you will) I should know what they say about it themselves.
Frankly, I have been clear, I don't know who is writing what about the Middle East, but I am willing to 'engage' the topic now. Thus, I am investigating. . . viewpoints in order to UNDERSTAND what all this talking, fighting, and yes killing is all about.
I'm not talking about ancient history, I'm talking about NOW. If you would rather talk about ancient history I'm not interested.
The Koran was not written NOW.
I say no such thing. Indeed, 7.1 is not even about the Quran.
But it is FOLLOWED NOW - It is believed in and used as a present everyday guide by devout Muslims so it could have been written on Mars a million years ago but it is considered INDISPENSIBLE by Muslims. Do you know what happens if you insult it NOW? Ask Salman Rushdie.
You are correct, you did not. I misinterpreted your comment. I take it back and apologize.
MEMRI!
Sounds like a quote from Trump. I can't remeber his exact words-- anyone remember them? (Something like "I am a very special genius)
More MEMRI Please!
IMO the problem is not that you're not reading about the Middle east, because you are. No-- rather the problem is some of the sources you read that you post here.
Al jazeera? really, that says a lot!
Why indeed?
That reminds me of some of the lyrics in a song from the 60's:
They say in Hinds county
No neutrals have we met
You're either a freedom fighter
Or tom for Ross Barnett . . .
If you are going to discuss the Koran (Now) then you have to discuss the Old Testament (Now). Right is fair..
Exactly, they two are only 600 - 2600 years apart.
NP.
Al Jazeera may speak "volumes" to some here. Me, barely. As my comment 7 states:
What 'attracted' me to the Al Jazeera article (after a search engine loaded it) was its explaining of the Balfour Declaration. But, I guess I knew that the site itself would cause a 'stir' all its own, but hoped it could be suffered as a perspective all the same.
Also, I figured we could discuss what Al Jazeera got right and even what they got wrong in the article. That is my thinking on this.
Yes-- definitely when its about the Middle east!
(One thing we can be grateful for I suppose: its not true of other areas! So thanks for pointing that out!)
I have no idea what you are agreeing to.
I was agreeing to:
And I made the distinction that the OT is much older than the Koran.
They are both old (testaments).
Again, separated by one thousand years and more.
Yet, they are categorically old testament books. And to be clear, I am not defending the Koran. I have heard from inside its covers, but have no interest in reading it.
I wish to discuss some more about this specifically:
and
Again, I am trying to comprehend ("fast") what the questions/issues are in this region which is trapped in 'endless' conflicts and wars. I have no 'side' in this. These 'cousins' have been fighting my entire life and I am finally trying to see why this the case!
Accordingly, if some group of folks are "natives" by definition they were 'first' people. Moreover if someone owned a small percentage of land in a region. . . "WHO" occupied the rest?
Is all this fighting between the two 'cousins' over land and property (title) rights?
How about it is because the Muslims' holy bible, the word of Allah, the Quran, COMMANDS them to fight the Jews and kill them? It also tells them they will be martyrs and will stay alive in the Garden of Allah forever if they are slain in the process of killing the Jews.
Kind of tempting, don't you think? And what about the 72 virgins they'll get to deflower? It's my personal opinion those are the reasons the Hamas militants will not give up until the last militant is killed - they will NEVER surrender even though they are responsible for the well-being of their civilians, the children the news media LOVES to accentuate have been collateral damage, notwithstanding that they are BOUND to be defeated even though if they WERE to surrender the bloodshed would stop immediately, humanitarian aid would be plentiful, Gaza would start to be rebuilt, but NO NO NO, because then they would not be martyrs.
Forgive me (if you will) but I don't think you addressed the question in quotes—there. "Is all this fighting between the two 'cousins' over land and property (title) rights?"
In your opinion. I don't know. I have only heard the above being stated over the years.
I told you my opinion of why the Muslims will not allow the Israelis to live in peace. And as well, it is my opinion and belief that when a nation has been attacked and invaded by its neighbours, and the nation defending itself conquers lands of the attacking nations, it is entitled to complete unmitigated sovereignty over those conquered lands, example being the Golan Heights (Trump agreed with that), and IMO it includes ALL of Judea and Samaria, known as the West Bank, and all of East Jerusalem. The antisemites of the world will argue about that.
Palestinian Arab natives made up more than 90 percent of the population.
False!
Don't do it Buzz-- it's a trap!
LOL. I'll forgive him if he realizes that I'm right and tells me so.
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Hard to describe ...smells kinda ... "putrid".
I’m still trying to hear the fish, gefilte fish.
No surprise there...since apparently you consider al Jazeera a reliable source!
Why don't you post more things from truly reliable sources?
Cheers!
That and killing all the Jews and LGBTQ there.
Thanks for that, I guess. (Sigh.) I get that Muslims in the ME don't like homosexuals, but that means they are ignorant, backward, people in that regard. Two things can be right at the same time. I can not want either Muslims or Jews to fight, maim, ruin, destroy, and/or kill each other (or LGBTQ) peoples.
?
The golden age of Arab Muslim development in culture, science, math, philosophy, etc was ended around 800 years ago. They seem to have little interest in changing this except for those that escape to the West. Here they do very well.
Because Al Jezeera has a perspective and I don't know enough about it to disavow it. Better to talk it through (if feasible).
Don't hold your breath.
There's a huge difference between attitudes re: gays in Israel-- and the Arab world.
Traditionally the Arabs "cure" homosexuality by throw them off high roofss.
The israeli attitude towards gays is one of the most tolerant in the world! (Pride week in israel has won praise from many in gay publicans as being one of the best in the world!)
"Don't Like"?
WTF-- they absolutely hate them, as per their religion.
And yet when people want to talk it through youtell them to answer their own questions!
[✘]
No, they are current people. “First” depends on when you start the clock.
Don't know what you are talking about.
Are Pakistani's native, depends on if your measure is before or after it was split from India. Are Bangladeshis native, depends on if your measure is before Bangladesh was separated from Pakistan.
Over the years I have found al Jazeera to be an unreliable source.
Review:
Al Jazeera, which publishes aljazeera.com , is a Doha-based state-funded broadcaster owned by the Al Jazeera Media Network, an entity partially funded by the ruling family of Qatar. It is among the largest news organizations in the world, with over 80 bureaus across the world and a global audience of over 270 million households in over 140 countries. Initially launched as an Arabic news and current affairs satellite TV channel, Al Jazeera has since expanded into a network with several outlets in multiple languages.
Al Jazeera gained significant attention during the 2023 Israel-Hamas conflict. Its coverage often centered Palestinian perspectives and promoted critics of Israel
Some of its operations are banned in Canada, for reasons that should be obvious to everyone, especially those who quote it. May as well quote Der Shtormer (or is it called Stormfront in English?).
May be. I fully understand. However, I wanted to show their viewpoint for discussion purposes. It's an open discussion (for me anyway).
I have heard this and put a "disclaimer" on it up top. However, what about their perspective strikes you and others 'in the know' as wrong. That is what I need to learn/understand—if anything.
Yes-- its a known hate site.
I don't read or listen to Al Jazeera. The article I posted from the site came up in a google search and I use it as a perspective. May I recommend being a little less defensive in your tone and posture on this. This is not me trying to damn Israel or praise Palestinians. I am 'neutral' more than anything else on the region and its peoples. Of whom I clearly know little because I have been looking at the 'situations' there for decades now. . . 'absent-mindedly.'
(Well, at least you have a sense of humor-- nice to see that!
)
So you just post blatantly anti-Israel stuff from al Jazeera-- without reading it?
(Well, that's your right).
Cheers!
Well-- I suppose that would be a positive step-- shifting your hatred of Israel towards some of the othere here.
CHEERS!
The good 'news' is I don't come here to impress.
Nope. I will keep asking good questions and hopefully or at another's discretion get good answers!
I don't hate Israel. But, you are entitled to think so.
If you really want to look at both sides, don't't forget to see what STORMFRONT says. Posting material from that site will help you present both sides of the arguments!
Although they're more helpful in seeing both sides re: discussions about race, IIRC they also discuss Jews.
(On general principles I will not post a link to their site)
DON BLACK, the site's founder:
"The people that visit Stormfront have a righteous indignation to the Israelization of America. Zionism unbound, that is what goes on in Washington, D.C., these days. … [T]he Jewish people demolish homes abroad and condition peoples minds with the media here in the U.S.A."
— 2004 interview with Impact News
"I remember [the 1950s] quite well, that a lot of people were mad about blacks. They were mad about school integration and black crime…. [B]ut … it was kind of rare to find someone that really, fully understood the Jewish involvement … behind all of this promotion of the destruction of culture and our heritage, the destruction of our schools and our neighborhoods. … [W]ith the Internet — and, I think, with this involvement in the Middle East, American involvement in the Middle East — everything's changed. I mean, we have to calm down people sometimes on Stormfront about the Jews."
— Stormfront.org radio, 2008
So now you insult me. So much for open discussion. Forget it. I am not sure why the mere mention of Israel/Palestine brings about open "hostilities," but it does and it helps 'no one' (else) understand!
On second thought, I have no fear of "Stormfront" if you wish to discuss that racist group post and article and I will meet you there. Perhaps, I can finally learn what makes a racist 'tick' from them if I listen and learn.
I will meet you on your article about STORMFRONT or any other racists group. Cheers!
No insult. I'm like you-- just a very open minded person wanting to have an open discussion-- and like you I respect all points of view and have no bias for or against the Jews!
That's where we differ. I'm biased in favour of the Jews and I'm proud of it and entirely open about it.
Then let's do it! Let's go!
Biden is sending a THAAD and 100 soldiers to operate it to Israel. If Iran launches a ballistic missile attack they will get to meet our lil’ friend.
Well its one of a series of events...where Biden shows he is definitely very "Pro-Israel"...(I would imagine that many who are opposed to Biden's strong support of democracy in the Middle east will be really pissed off by this ...n'est-ce pas?)
Biden is sending a THAAD and 100 soldiers to operate it to Israel.
Well its one of a series of events...where Biden shows he is definitely very "Pro-Israel"...
Here's what the Democratic candidate for President (Kamela Harris) said on the subject:
"Let me be clear, I will always stand up for Israel's right to defend itself and I will always ensure Israel has the ability to defend itself," she said tonight.
She said that Israelis should "never again" go through the horror and "unspeakable" attacks of Oct. 7.
I forgot to insert the link-- its HERE
The acts of October 7, 2023 in Israel were unspeakable. I saw some of the shootings on Youtube! What these two religious people are continuously doing to one another is unspeakable too!
I would guess you admire Joni Mitchell for writing and singing "Both Sides Now".
Yes! I adore the song. Especially, enjoy it since I have 'aged. You are correct.
Joni and I were friends a long time ago. We met when we both came to Toronto (it was her first time in Toronto and I was living in Hamilton then but I'd already been to Toronto many times) to watch the 1964 Mariposa Folk Festival. I got her her first paying gig in Ontario, at the Black Swan coffee house in Hamilton.
What a pleasant memory.
I have met and talked with stars on a personal level several times (I lived in Hollywood) and to this day the pleasant memories make me smile.
You beat me to it (by discovering the story before I did!) Here's a link to the article and the discussion on NT:
Biden sends antimissile system and 100 troops to Israel, deepening U.S. role
Not fair, I had some insider, heads up.
Looks like there may be a significant difference of opinion between Middle-Eastern experts in the Biden administration-- and some of the the self-proclaimed "experts" here on NT, eh?
Hehehe
Many people agree (that those Jews own too much land).
Here's a size comparison map:
Some say Israel's alledged "vast colonial area" ( shown here in dark purple*) is way to large....
_______________________________________
*Note: The Arab world is shown here in Yellow.
To further put things in perspective-- here's a size comparison map of Egypt. Egypt is one of the four Arab (but definitely not "Palestinian) countries bordering israel:
To further put things in perspective-- here's a size comparison map of Egypt. Egypt is one of the four Arab (but definitely not "Palestinian) countries bordering israel:
Size Ratio, Egypt to Israel: 36:1
And as we discussed-- there are some 21 Arab countries...
(Do you still think Israel has "too much land"???)
Exactly, any land is too much land especially when Israel is helping us weaponize and target weather.
There's been a long period of mutual support between Israeli Scientists and Israeli scientists .in many areas of technology.
OMG-- I can't believe I missed that error!
Obviously its a type-- it should read as follows:
There's been a long period of mutual support between Israeli Scientists and American scientists .in many areas of technology.
Golda Meir: I'm a Palestinian, from 1921 to 1948 I carried a Palestinian passport
Can anyone CLARIFY what Golda Meir is saying in this video. I ask because she is saying she is Palestinian and carried its passport, but then at the end of the short clip she says there was only Jews and Arabs in the area. So, what is the PASSPORT signifying? It's a little confused and in need of clarification if available here.
NOTE : After posting the video I see there is some sort of "message" attached to the screenshot showing. It is not anything to do with me or my focus. It shows up only when posting the video. So, that's not me. It speaks to what I wrote earlier about lots of people have 'points' they want to make about this crisis that makes it hard or kind of hard to follow the true narrative. - CB.
The British were issuing passports to residents since their was no national sovereignty.
If I understand you clearly, it was not a passport to a nation but to a ('disputed') territory.
No, a passport from a British administration, not a passport to a nation/territory.
My passport is from the USA, not to the USA.
Yes-- in fact several of us already have.
More than once!
I'm getting tires of repeating myself-- but I'll give it one more try.
First of all "Palestine" was never a country. It was always just a geographical area-- like "New Enland" or "The Midwest" in the U.S.
Capiche?
No need to be condescending. Really. I (and maybe others) are trying to comprehend the height, length, and depth of this Middle East 'problem' on an open forum. It's complex for a reason. I appreciate the assistance of others with the knowledge and the willingness to share, but I will not tolerate 'rudeness.'
After WWII, various colonial powers were given "mandates" over certain colonial posessions-- supposedly to prepare them for independence. The British were given the mandate over the area called "Palestine" (BTW it was a general area-- not a nation).
The British controlled the area called "Palestine". As it population was predominantly jewish and Muslin, they decided to divide it up-- to form two countries. One was israel-- the other was a new Moslem country. (Since there had never been one there before, they decided to name the country after the general region-- so it was to become Palestine.
One addition, the British mandate began in the 1920’s following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in WWI.
Thanks for the info!
So before the Turks (AKA "The Ottomans") were defeated in WWII, the passports were issued by The Ottoman Empire.
(That does not mean it had beena country called "Ottoman"-- or even "Turkey"!)
After WWII, various colonial powers were given "mandates" over certain colonial posessions-- supposedly to prepare them for independence. The British were given the mandate over the area called "Palestine" (BTW it was a general area-- not a nation).
BTW there was a similar situation bordering Israel on the North. The French was given control of the area, which they were toprepare for indepence. The area had been called Greater Syria.
Initially the plan was to create one new country (to be called "Syria") out of the entire area.
But the French had an idea. They gerrymandered it!
Since the entire country of Syria was predominantly Muslim, France was worried that after independence they might not be friendly towards Catholic France.
But the French The French knew there was a tiny area along the coast that was predominently Christian-- (indigenous Christians that were there long before Islam had even been invented!)They were members of some Christian "Eastern Rite" I forget the exact name.
So instead of creating one large (predominently Muslim) country of "Syria"-- they created that plus another (Christian) small country along the coast to be called "Lebanon"!
At the time of its creation (1946) Lebanon was predominently Christian! It was also one of the most diverse countries in the Middle East-- not just Christians and muslims-- but also various different sects of islam-- as well as Druse and other minorities. Even Jews at one point).
Many started wars witheach other. Christians were prosecuted by some Muslim sects-- some massacred. Many Christians emigrated. to other countries.
Eventually Lebanon became a predominently Muslim country.
Many came to the U.S.
One famous Lebanese who immigrated to the U.S.-- a Lebanese Christian, founded the St, Jude hospital.
His name is Danny Thomas.
The Maronite Catholic Church is the largest Christian sect in Lebanon and it is in full communion with the Catholic Church. The second largest is Greek Orthodox and then there are some smaller groups.
Danny Thomas was born in the U.S. His parents emigrated from Lebanon. They were Maronite Catholics.
Thanks for the information.
For some reason I had assumed (incorrectly) that he himself was a first generation immigrant.
Good for you!
I did not know that. Thanks for sharing it! I loved Danny Thomas
Thank you, G!
Just curious-- what is the reason you are referring to?
The Middle East violent break-outs are complex for a reason, Krishna. As far as I can 'tell' or remember, no other nation has the 'peculiar' circumstances which 'handicap' peace between two peoples existing in such close proximity for decades, though it could be possible that some other groups of people do (eg., the Koreas -but even they have 'prolonged' peace as two nations side-by-side with border "fences"). I have heard it stated that the problem is land/title/property gain/loss. But, to be clear, I have heard this over the years from others. I have no opinion of my own about it.
Some have written that the 'problem and complexity' is that the Palestinians and Jews 'simply' HATE each other and wish each other or one wishes the other death! (I have heard that rumored around over the years too.)
As you can imagine, these are 'impossible' situations for two people living so 'intricate' together. It's makes for. . . complex politics. . .and conflict/war.
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You asked. I answered. It's what we 'do' here.
Question: When you visited israel as a tourist-- did you stay exclusively with your tour group-- or did you actually get to talk to the people (both the Jewish israelis as well as their Arab citizens?)
Point me to the statement that gives an impression that I have visited the Middle East, because I am pretty sure I have not! (News accounts over 60 years. . .neighbors in my mixed community of citizens in the states,. . . and the fact that I have Jewish and Palestinian friends (in the states) supply me the 'occasional' remark on the problem.)
For your information, I don't have to 'go' to the Middle East to hear/educate myself about the region as it keeps appearing 'periodic' on U.S. television screens "for the taking."
It may not seem obvious, but it is time to venture out into its discovery . . . has 'anybody' observed just how SCRIPTED our lives in the United States are?
Has this nation 'always' wished and sought after "Father figures"?
We have a wannabe fascist leader with followers in this country, who are vying for a 'license' or certifications to do serious damage to their fellow Americans, namely Liberals and Secularists -with no distinction respectively.
Given that we are in an election cycle, I can envision danger in the United States coming back for the LGBTQ section of 'town' when the Christian Right assumes a posture of dominance. . . and openly act to savage the LGBTQ community wholesale.
We are not as free a nation as we like to think, say, or even imagine being. Indeed, over the past few years one of the astonishing facts about our country that I have come to realize is just how conservative our "free" country has been in the past. . . and is seeking with all its "RIGHT-WING" might to become again!
Who knows, maybe "gays" will be tossed off. . . something (I hope not!), may be not, but they definitely will be send back into the closet and stigmatized if some conservatives take control of the government THIS TIME around!