Is it the lying or is it the cheating?
I have a friend who is going through a nightmare right now. She has beenworking in Europe for the last six months on assignment and recently found out her husband was cheating on her while she was gone.
We got to talking about how the whole fallout is going to be deployed because she wants to wait until she moves back to hand him the papers and pretty much shock him with the whole divorce proceedings... and the discussion started about the lying vs. the cheating.
My husband and I have been married almost ten years now. We married fairly young and have had our ups and downs (like any normal couple). We had our good rows in the beginning when we were still feeling each other out (so to speak).
When I would get into arguments with my husband, he would be very adament that cheating was the end of everything. I'm not disagreeing that cheating is a horrible thing, but I would tell him that lying is just as bad, if not worse than cheating. Cheating was the icing on the big lie cake.
Because lying, like cheating, makes you question everything the other person does and examine it for integrity. A simple "I spent 10 bucks today on gas" turns into... well why? and why only 10 bucks? ... and didnt you just spend 10 bucks on gas?... and does it really show on the statement as 10 bucks? But lying is about everything else, not just sex.
For me, I could probably do counciling if my husband did a stupid, got drunk, and slept with someone else. The first time at least... I mean ten years is worth a little effort to patch up...
But constant lies, or covering up a planned affair.. that is where I draw the line (with something sharp). It pisses me off to no end to be given even the smallest white lie, but my husband just doesnt get why it makes me so angry. And trust me, we've had many conversations about it ...
Anyway, what is your take, your breaking point or your life lessons as it concerns Lying or Cheating?
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Charles, you need to compare notes with my husband, Magnum. He went through much of the same thing... His wife left when their daughter was 2, and I met him 5 years later and married him when his daughter was 8.
We've both been married twice before. In my case, the deal breaker in my first marriage was the cheating, the lying, the drug dealing, and the physical abuse. The deal breaker in my second marriage was the alcoholism and the sudden decision that he didn't want children. I threw the first one out and left the second one. I didn't date for 5 years after my second marriage, and then, not much. Then, Magnum and I met.
Magnum and I have been married 15 years. I love him with all my heart. I don't know what the deal breaker would be in our case, on my side anyway. If he wants to have an affair, go have one, just come home to me at night. Nyeh, do what you need to do, and all that. I wouldn't like it, but I think I could probably deal with it. I would hope that he would be smart enough to make sure I didn't find out. To be honest, I'm not looking for anything, either-- it would have to be pretty open and obvious. As far as ME having an affair, what a hoot! I could care less about any man, but him. I'm just not interested. period.
I think that I'm so committed to him, it would take him leaving me. I'm very happy. For that to end would be devastating to me, and I don't honestly think I could survive another divorce. I have already had a major heart attack and by pass surgery, and frankly, I guess I'd just quit taking my medicine and let nature take its course. Health-wise, I'm pretty precariously balanced, as it is.
If I die, I hope he remarries, because I don't want him to be alone and lonely the rest of his life. There are many different kinds of love-- and it's OK. I know he will care for our son and be good to him. He's the right kind of person, and besides, he's done it before. I'll see him on the other side.
Whatever God has in store for me, I pray for the strength to deal with it with dignity and grace.
Sometimes it is just best to let sleeping dogs lay...especially in reference to past indiscretions. The idea of unburdening your past actions, just to satisfy ones achey-breaky little conscience, is an act of selfishness. If your loving mate has no idea of your affair and such a revelation would crush his or hers world, the better part of valor and honor demands you allow them to continue.
Lying is the most corrosive element in a relationship, in my opinion, because most all relationships are built on the foundation of trust.
If you are not truthful to both yourself and the person whom you are in the relationship with, eventually they will find out. It is not if, it is when, and whenever that is, there are going to be serious repercussions. I feel that it is much better to deal with any potentially disrupting situations right away, in whatever form they come.
In the early Nineties I took a course that was based around the idea of personal integrity, i.e., Doing what you say you are going to do and saying what you mean. Our whole lives are built around interactions with others, and the premise of this course was to show that by maintaining consistency between our words and our actions, recognizing when these two were at odds and then dealing with the situation proactively instead of letting these differences fester, we could thereby lead a more productive or more fulfilling life. (There was a lot more to the course, but that will do for now.)
Knowing that we need to be honest with ourselves and others is one thing, actually being honest with ourselves and others takes discipline.
Life does not seem to be either more productive or fulfilling, for example, when you are rushing to get your stuff packed and out of your girl friend's apartment, all the while being bombarded by thrown objects: glasses, bookshelves, your pants with the crotch scissored out, whatever she can manage to hoist and throw while screaming at the top of her lungs, "You Fucker! Get IT? Fuck-her!" over and over, because you told her the truth.
From the other side, it can be hard to accept that a relationship is over when the truth is finally forced before your eyes. She doesn't love you the same way she used to, stop lying to yourself. It does not matter that you went along with her plans, that you allowed her to have lovers on the side as long as she came home, because you wannted it to work but she was still looking for new lovers, not just sex. You tried and it did not work. The phone rings at night: someone hit redial on her phone and you have to sit there, screaming into the phone that is not to her ear, while she professes undying love for the next shmoe in line. Time to put the phone down and move on.
Trust is not easily gained back once it is lost. I can accept honesty, no matter how much it hurts. Don't lie to me and we'll be fine. I can accept honest mistakes and even grave, hurtful actions, but don't lie to me or yourself, and I will try to do the same for you.
My two cents.
Thank you for sharing that Charles. That is very generous of you to hold yourself to a high standard around your children. It really sets a good example for them.
It isnt right what people do to each other in the name of love sometimes.
I so agree.
I dont know... most lies cant stay hidden forever.
I think I would be way more hurt by a lie that happened 20 years ago and was never revealed, than the same lie that happened 20 minutes ago and was blasted at me out of the blue.
The crushing happened when the lie was committed, not when it was told in my opinion.
I feel the same way Broliver. Lying about something you did doesnt make it go away, it just prolongs the hurt and dammages your integrity.
To open a relationship for shopping around is just awful.
It is very hard to separate liars and cheaters, but in my opinion, being lied to would be the hardest to recover from when trying to fix a relationship. Cheating is physical, your significant other found someone else attractive or whatever and had an affair, but if both sides are willing to work at it, the trust can be rebuilt. But trust is rebuilt by truth, so if a history of lying about other things, not just the affair, is between the two of you, it is doubly hard to rebuild the trust. Lying, even about small things, is a much quicker deal-breaker to me than cheating. Lying, once started, becomes a habit, and that habit becomes a character flaw.
Aeon:
I so agree. Have been married 28 years, and though I have never cheated, if I had I sure as hell wouldn't have had a late night confess all.
I have just that sort of action, the "confession" destroy marriages. Frankly, many times (not saying you Randy) the "confession" isn't done out of a desire to mend what was broken, but to further hurt and harm the other person in the marriage!
Hell, I get such a kick out of the fact that I just actually commented on marriage crap!
If it's never discovered, it's never painful!
You may be right, as may Randy, hell, I don't know. All I know is that in my practice (I don't do divorce work), all of the times clients have "confessed" it's to hurt.
Speaking to friends who do divorce law, it's the same. Their experience is that most such "confessions" are made so as to cause pain, not honestly to keep the marriage going.
@Gunny:
Exactly, well said! I also wonder how many folks who are saying never lie, confess, etc., etc have only been married ONCE and for over 25 years? Hell, the first ten are easy, the second ten start to itch a bit, the next ten, and the next, and the next can get very tough indeed!
@Gunny,
Damn, you mean I still have thirty or so to go!
Good thing about that, I won't be around for that long. I'm kind of just hoping for next week!
Thankfully I never been in that situation.
In my first marriage my wife was very jeleous. Beyond what I could deal with after awhile.There were some really bizare scenes because of it. Finally after two children and ten years of marriage, we parted ways. I hadnever cheated or even thought about it. I could not convince her of that.
I have been married 32 years this time, and we are both very happy. We've had our ups and downs but marriage is an on going process.
I hope that I never have to deal with your question.
The lying - hands down.
I say it completely depends on the relationship. My ex (1st marriage) was abusive in every way except physically and I was not going to wait around for that to happen. Did I lie to him? Absolutely! About many things. Why? I was scared. I had a plan to leave while he was at work for the same reason. It took months of planning. He had no idea. His sister even told me that it wasa good idea for him to not know what was going on and that I needed to be gone before he got home from work. That's exactly what I did. One thing I did not lie to my ex about was when he asked me if I was cheating on him. I said, "Nope, but I sure have thought about it!" And he never knew about all of the lies I told him... There is no reason for him to know. What good would it have done for me to tell him that I would leave work early to go to the beach and just lie in the sun to be away from him and his abuse? Or that I would stay at my mom's for hours because I just did not want to go home?
My husband (2nd marriage), I would never lie or cheat on. He's MY perfect partner in life. He is my other half. I was not whole until he and I got together. I think it would be more difficult for him to lie to me than cheat, but it would hurt either way... A lot. Why? Because if he cheated, then he preemtively lied. He and I have always told each other what is on our minds... Even if it hurts. So, if he was lusting after another and acted upon it? Um, he should tell me he's lusting for another before he acted upon it. That's where the liecomes into playeven before the cheating. If he told me that he was lusting after another and I didn't react? Then the cheating should be of no surprise to me.
I hope that makes sense.