Pope Benedict XVI to step aside on Feb. 28

I have to admit that the whole thing leaves me indifferent.

If I were to guess, my guess would be he may have Alzheimer's or something like that.

I happen to think you are right. I don't see this as being anything more than being aware that he can't do his job anymore.

Wish more politicians would have the self honesty which this Pope has.

but I have a sense there's something more to this than he's acknowledging.

I doubt that Pope Benedict XVI has another agenda. When he was chosen by his peers he had wanted to finally retire and share some quality time with his brother, who is also a priest, but the Pope was loyal to God's call. Now that his health is failing, he kept his promise he made at the outset. He was referring to John Paul II, and the sad state of his health, and the last years of his Papacy which he personally witnessed. Little got done in his last years, and the then, Cardinal Ratzinger, witnessed the effect that the illness had on the state of the Papacy.

These last years of Pope John Paul II were very trying with his poor health, and Pope Benedict XVI is obviously resigning because he cannot physically do the things that the flock needs done. Today's church is communicating 24/7 and the demands on anyone who leads it will require a younger more physically fit leader to navigate the international air plane flights, and the many visits around the world to mention one aspect of spiritual care.

Whooo, honest politicians? It's a great thought, but I don't believe honesty and politicians go together. It's all about them and keeping their job at all costs.

Gotta agree with you on that Charlie!

I am a Methodist, so this isn't earth shattering news-- but I think he is a wise man to know that he just doesn't have the physical "oomph", (for lack of a better word), to continue to lead. I wish him nothing but the best, and hope that he may enjoy a bit of retirement, knowing that the retains the love of his followers.

I wonder who they will pick next. I hope it is someone that is able to support church doctrine, but able to modernize it for today's world. I think that the church has many issues to think through, and needs to take a look at reality.

Such as, my husband is not allowed to take communion in the church, because he is divorced. A finer man would be difficult to find. But his church denies him the comfort of communion, because he wife up and left him? Isn't that a double whammy? We take communion together at the Methodist church, and it seems to help. But, I don't think that is something that should be going on, and he has to live with the fact that he broke a "church law". Piffle.

Take at look at the over population, health, and general well-being of 3rd world countries, and yet, you deny them birth control? This idiocy where they let a woman die because her fetus was still alive, though brain dead... I can't imagine anything more cruel!

Oh well, I guess this is why I'm a Methodist...

Hi Dowser,

Before I went back home to the Church. I was married, divorced, and remarried to my current wife as a Methodist. She was a Baptist, a Presbyterian and a couple of other denominations. But, we decided on Methodism because they has a nice youth program and it was close to our house.

Suddenly one day my wife says, "I think I want to become Catholic." And, I almost fell over. Since I went through what your husband did I may be able to help him get going in the right direction.

Here is my three part story: A Matter of Faith

I can't imagine anything more cruel!

The idiot that caused that death is at fault, not the Church's teachings. He miss applied the whole abortion principle. Danger to the mother always super-seeds whatever else was going on at the time.

If you show my story to your husband and he would like to discuss it, I will be more than willing to help guide him through the process the best way I can.

Ciao!

cc

Apropos who will be picked, Pope, next! My guess is that Africa will be the source of the next Pope. They are growing very rapidly, and are very devoted to the faith. We have many, many priests from those parts here in the US now, and I believe the old tradition of having mostly Bishops from Rome be Pope has been broken with Pope Benedict XVI.

I am not Catholic, but have many friends on FB and personally who are, and they agree with you, Africa it is.

This may all be true, but it is still the most hilarious new story of the week. Does anybody believe Pope John Paul the whatever had all his mental faculties when he died, still in office?

The notion that a Pope can retire for any reason when they are allegedly gods mouthpiece on Earth FOR LIFE pretty much makes the whole thing a sad and pathetic joke. I think if he is quitting for health reasons, then more power to him. Obviously, he must realize that pretending to speak for an invisible, non-existent entity isnt as important as attending to his own health. I couldnt agree more.

Charlie, I don't know if he is at all interested. He is not about to declare his earlier marriage invalid in the eyes of the church, because he has a sweet daughter. Plus, he's married to me and we have a son. So which child would be a bastard?

They wouldn't let me in on a bet, because I, too, am divorced. Seems like the church, here anyway, doesn't recognize his marriage outside the church, (Methodist), but recognizes my marriages inside another church, (Methodist).

For me, I don't feel the need. The spirit doesn't move me to try to join. It may be different for him. But, there is a lot of the doctrine that I just don't agree with, in my heart, for me. He's here on NT-- Magnum. If you want to talk with him about it-- I'll pass your message on to him. And thank you, from MY heart, for the offer!

Well, well, well... I think the Pope is overwhelmed by the pedophile scandal and by his part in the cover- up of it. Things have gotten out of control in the Church. I think the CC is a dying instution because of its bull-headedness in allowing dogma to be more important than spirituality. I'm so angry with the Chruch that I can only say, "there goes another old fart in a robe and funny hat!"

If the Church wants to save itself it will become more progressive and step out of the dark ages. With a bevy of old men to choose from for the new Pope, things don't look to good!

p.s. Is there spell check on this site?

Pope John Paul the whatever was practically comatose and still doing the job!Goes to show you doesn't it?

The Church needs a young, healthy, woman to do the job then maybe something meaningful could happen! OMG, I think I just comitted a mortal sin by saying that!

Charlie,

What the "flock" needs done is a mystery to the minds of the old relics in the Papacy. Their thinking is so archaic they wouldn't know how to administer spiritual/emotional care if they had to. Their idea of spiritual care is telling everyone they are going to burn in hell or if they are in a really good mood just ex-communicating them. A pox on all of them!

I dont know. I think if you really look at the lore of Christianity, you can see that the Christian god must certainly be female, simply represented as male by men who couldnt justify worshiping a god of their own imagining (not a stretch I know). Therefore, a female pope would not only be appropriate, but almost necessary in retaining what little integrity christianity might have left. Desmond Tutu wouldnt be a bad choice either as an option B.

ed: so not a sin at all, lol

Well with jack- asses like Paul Ryan and Rick Santorium in politics and in bed with the Pope who knows, we may get the chance to vote that way!

IDK. Will the votes be siphoned through the electoral college?

Men destroyed the "goddess" but it is definitely time to bring her back!

Tacos, with the regression in the CC and the voter supression of progressives in the GOP the votes will be siphoned thru a conclave of Tea Partiers with little bits of paper and smoke signals coming from the roof of the Capital Building.

I think it will need to make it through the Obamlists as well.

Pedophilia is really, really tiresome. And yes he did know as he was chief investigator for the Church when he was Ratzinger. All complaints came across his desk!

rationalwiki

Of course it has to do with the CC! It is un-natural for men to do without sex. Look at all the perversion it has caused because they won't allow priests to marry. How can priests understand family problems and give advice when they have no clue as to what a normal family is? The Church has lost many, many, many good men who could have been a great asset to humanity simply because of their ridiculous idea that priests should be celebate!The Churchis a cesspool hypocrisy. If there is anti-Catholicism it is because they have brought the wrath down upon their own shoulders. No excuses for them they deserve what they get!

You are flailing around John. They have no defense! If there is a "big lie" it is the many the Church has told through out the march of time. They have no credibility with me not because of the child abuse debacle but because, I repeat, they are a cesspool of hypocrisy!

Well yes, it is just a sick situation all around but consider that the CC condemns people to burn in hell or excommunicates them for the slightest infractions all the while just slapping the hands of the goodly priests. It is a double standard and the fact that it has the power to torture the followers/faithful makes it "evil." The entire set up is immoral and perverted.

There is no difference between the Catholic church and any other group or organization where children are placed in a position where they must 'trust' someone who has power over them. This sounds very cynical, but someone will always abuse that trust. It happens every where, in all faiths, and in all situations.

Until we can somehow control the basest aspects of human nature, innocent children will always be harmed, by someone.

And I resent your use of "liberals." Liberals have more compassion and humanity than most holier-than- thou religious freaks. That's where the Church goes wrong. Instead of trying to solvehumanity's problems they just send you to hell with a one way ticket!

Anti Catholic hysteria. My hysteria about the CC when out the window long ago. Now, it has just turned to disgust! As for perverted- not letting men get married and have a normal sex life- seriously that is not perverted? Living as if it were still the dark ages- that is not perverted? Protecting the reputation of the Church over taking care of the flock- that is not perverted? Telling people they are going to burn in hell for eternity- that is Not perverted? Thinking you own God and can dole It out or with hold It at will- that is not perverted? Jesus weeps!!!

AMEN!

In this country!!! how about the entire planet?

You haven't addressed my questions on page 3 John. They are valid questions. How is what I said about Church doctrine not evil???

It is pretty sickening, for sure.

Bull shit! I am a recovering Catholic and I know quite well what was told, said and done in the CC. There is nothing irrational about about my thinking- just ask the many, many who have left the Church. The CC has left spirituality in the dust for its dogma and magisterium! If it doesn't wise up it will become a thing of the past. This is sad for sure as I miss a lot of the beauty of the mass.

Happily Blue,

Many, if not most, of those Catholic hospitals and universities are owned by communities of men and women religious (brothers, priests, and nuns).

I can't see how that is possible. Those "brothers, priests, and nuns" you mentioned take vows of poverty and I think you will find that they have nothing, no assets. Their families may have donated money to help build these venerable institutions but ownership is really not the issue.

Laffy Taffy

It's always has been about the money. The popes annual income is 200 mil a year, and the Catholic church...

Show us the proof of that.

Otherwise, make a retraction. I serve on one Finance Committee of a very large church, and Bishops are usually quite poor, unless their family or relatives help support charities and hospitals.

Yikes. The CC has had dogma and magisterium for many centuries, if not for millenia.

That doesn't make it right! Just because something is old doesn't make it relevant!

Happily BLUE

So, where's your proof that the Pope earns 200 million per annum?

As a member of the Finance Committee of one church, you have nor get no information bishops and their assets

Correct, but I do have 35 years of corporate recruiting experience in the corridors of power in the US! And, I am not without high-level contacts, and people who have millions, and I can assure you that for clerics to have access to that kind of money, it comes from relatives and friends, not their personal bank accounts.

If the clerics made that kind of money, they would not have a conclave to elect a Pope that they have. It would become a dictatorship.

Catholic Hospitals are a mighty source of charity in this country:

There are more than 600 Catholic health care institutions in the United States,
12% of the total, 1 and about one in six Americans is treated in a Catholic
health care institution each year . Source: link above.

Hi John,

I am a revert to the faith & Church, in 2006. A while back I read some tithing statistics about the givers in the Catholic pews. The paucity of donations is astounding, as I had been a Methodist for about 10 years and for the most part they were quite generous. There the clamor by the preachers was to tithe 10% to your church.

I like the Catholic premise. Tithe 5% or more to your parish, and the other 5% to other missions, etc.

I can't remember where and exactly how much was estimated to be given by the average Catholic but it was pretty close to the 2% you mentioned. I was shocked when I read the figure.

I have a cradle Catholic attorney friend here in my home town who laughed in my face, the day I said the "Tithing was down!" He said, emphatically, "Catholics don't tithe." And, he was right. Not like the other denominations...

We just finished a major capital campaign a year ago, and the number of people who got upset and left our parish because the firm we hired to assist in the fundraising ruffled some feathers during their pitches, along with those of us who helped with the effort, the priests and lay people, shows how stingy we are.

It's sad to say but we Catholics are not well known for cheerful giving.

Ciao,

cc

Here's a good one for you, my great aunt wanted to be a nun but was turned down by the CC because her dowry wasn't big enough! It was awhile ago but still. And I remember reading the history of the CC when they were selling indulgences! It's always been about money and power!

Come on, A.A., that was during Martin Luther's time!

That was a blip on the radar; but a very bad practice, and certainly justification for Luther to call the churches' hand on the practice.

I am sorry, Happily BLUE!

I never said the pope earns $200M a year, nor did I ever say that Catholic hospitals are not charitable.

I had just read Laffy Taffy's claim of the Pope earning 200 million a year and had it my mind that you made the claim. I'm not used to the order of long threads here yet, and the previous comments were no longer visible. I answered a phone call and then went back to typing.

You are not only very confused, Charlie, but your lack of reading comprehension skills, critical thinking, and logic make me question the veracity of your claims about your life and work experiences.

What I was in the past is over. Having attributed the Pope's salary claim of $200,000,000.00 dollars to you is what confused me as I wrote.

This is a Company that I sold: XUKOR, Inc.

Not that it proves anything....Ideveloped, owned and sold an information conglomerate in pieces. Xukor, Inc. was the last piece. Executive Search skills are not transferable, since I was the brains of the business development.

Laffy Taffy

I have a book in my library that I just located, called: "How to be Pope." by Piers Marchant IBSN: 0-8118-5221-0; COPY RIGHT 2005

On page 122 the first item at the top of the page is:

"1. TERMS OF EMPLOYMENT

Compensation

The pontiff receives no salary. You do have use of all the amenities and resources of the VC and Castel Gondolfo, and your room and board is covered. You also receive 24-hour security and use the Popemobiles, and your international visits and vacations are all paid for by the church and the host countries.

+ Medical benefits +Retirement The church's book of canon law (sec 332.2) states. "If it should happen that the Roman Pontiff resign from his office, it is required for validity that he make resignation freely and that it be duly manifested, but that it not be accepted by anyone."

BTW, there there have been only 10 resignations during the 2,000-year history of the position."

Laffy Taffy, your statement is a bold face lie.

I just found a book in my library about the Pope. In it on page 122 his terms of employment say:

The pontiff receives no salary.

The particulars are beneath the Laffy Taffy post.

I am heartily sorry I accused you of this misinformation, Happily BLUE.

Unfortunately, it usually IS about money and power for the institutional RCC.

I keep seeing this same canard being repeated time after time and whenever I challenge anyone to prove it, I get long, non sequitur replies but no facts.

I can state, a posteriori, in my many dealings with Catholics and some Catholic institutions, I've seen no evidence of this. Perhaps you can enlighten me with some unbiased research or facts on this?

Thanks.

That fact that an organization, any organization, has money and fiscal responsibilities means what?

If you are saying the RC exists only for "power and money" your link proves nothing.

If you are saying that because a religious organization fiduciarily supports its own existence, that it somehow negates its primary function of serving the faithful; that is illogical. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

If you are saying that according to your opinion that no religious organization should have money because it violates your perception of that belief, then we might be getting closer to what you are driving at.

The folks that run the Church are politicians, who quite regularly simply ignore Christ's message.

And you know Christs message?

Finances aside, I know Christ's message and it wasn't damning and castigating people! The CC is into punishing and Christ never acted likethat. Jesus has been left in the dust so the CC can control the people by fear and threat of eternal damnation. Poor Jesus!

I don't know Christ's message. All I know or care to know, is that the Prophet Jesus was a man of Peace.

On the side, when I was in high school, I was at a job where all these adults would argue about God, scripture and whose church and/or preacher was the best. The arguments sometimes broke out in fights, each person claiming to know God/Jesus/Bible the best. It got to be old, fast.

Knowing about a faith is one thing. (I studied Catholicism) Acting in accordance to its beliefs, another story altogether. (I'm Neotantric which is related to Hinduism and as such have no belief in the bible)

Not at all. In fact, you are in error on your opinions but being online is a balancing act. First, I have to determine whether your errors need to be corrected, which depends on the amount of time and effort I'd have to invest. As I perceive that you pretty well have your mind made up, such an effort would not be worth the time. I'd have to demonstrate you are wrong which requires proof I'd have to provide and I just don't see you as the type to actually reading it....confirmation bias it's called.

Secondly, this entire discussion is moot. While it's fun for me (win,lose or draw) to engage in these types of discussions, I haven't drawn from it, anything I haven't heard before. Same old, same old.

Lastly, when it comes to "hot button" topics like religion and politics, I've run into more than a few people with some heavy duty personal axes to grind, specifically in regards to Catholics. Up until I was 12, I was raised by fundamentalist Baptist parents and went to their fundie school. They taught me stuff like Catholics worship the devil, worship idols...stuff like that. I was scared of them. It took me a few years to unlearn their lies.

Unlike some people, I don't go out of my way to attack beliefs that are different from mine, I see no utility in it. I have my own biases in regards to fundamentalists, Baptists, evangelicals and charismatics but have learned to be tolerant of them...unless their beliefs clash with my rights as a citizen in this country.

A.A.

Here are some facts: The Pope's resignation:

Wednesday, 13 February 2013

[ Video ]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

As you know, I have decided thank you for your kindness to renounce the ministry which the Lord entrusted to me on 19 April 2005. I have done this in full freedom for the good of the Church, after much prayer and having examined my conscience before God, knowing full well the seriousness of this act, but also realizing that I am no longer able to carry out the Petrine ministry with the strength which it demands. I am strengthened and reassured by the certainty that the Church is Christs, who will never leave her without his guidance and care. I thank all of you for the love and for the prayers with which you have accompanied me. Thank you; in these days which have not been easy for me, I have felt almost physically the power of prayer your prayers which the love of the Church has given me. Continue to pray for me, for the Church and for the future Pope. The Lord will guide us.

A year ago I would not have had an answer, but having been through a bout with cancer, I can understand what being deathly sick does to one.

When my younger sister passed a year ago, I was in such a state that I couldn't stand the long flight to LA from Georgia and back. So, I can well understand the Pope's feelings.

The Church can stand the bad press and so can Benedict XVI.

He can hardly walk.

Ciao!

Charlie