That is a good question. Let me say it this way. I am in a very orthodox Church; and, where we had 85% of the parish attending Mass every Sunday 4 or 5 years ago, we now have dwindled down to less than 25%.
I am told that this is the worst Mass attendance the Church has ever had!
Our Catholic faith has but one absolute that every Catholic must obey. Go to Mass every Sunday. Obviously, they are disobedient in that mandate, and when they vote for a person who is pro-abortion, and pro-partial birth (late term abortion) they are going against God's will. Of course we have Biden, Sibelius, Cuomo, and Nancy Pelosi who call themselves Catholics but violate the Ten Commandments, who knows why? It's easy. They have no faith! They are Catholics in name only.
There are about 60 million, alleged Catholics, in the US; but, obviously they don't believe in, or practice their faith. In the 4 parishes in our area, and in our Southern Dioceses, our Bishop has spoken to the issue of upholding the teachings of the faith, but a good bit of is heard by deaf ears.
Moral relativism is the prevailing attitude in our culture that is contracepting, divorcing, fornicating, itself out of existence. Were it not for the Latinos and Muslims here our population growth would be under 1 child per family. As it is we are just barely 2 children per family.
That just a small start Bruce. The Pope, the Bishops, and the Priests, Deacons, and many faithful Lay People are teaching what the faith is, but society is a complete counter-culture.
This guy is a joke! And no one is pro-abortion, one is pro-choice. There is a vast difference.The Church is supposed to be for the people not the Church to support it's own stodgy dogma. Is it any wonder whyCatholics are dropping out like mad? The Church needs to step gracefully into the 21st century and start dealing with real people with real problems and not hide behind tired dogma and outdated dictates that are obsolete. The Church has only itself to blame for its problems. Quit blaming the President- I think he is more Christian than any of the Catholic fanatics who find themselves in church every Sunday but can't find it in their hearts to be compassionate.
When one calls a spade a spade, people don't like it. Pro-choice is a euphemism which makes people feel good about their choice to kill a baby in the womb. Call it what it is! Murdering a human iin the womb of a mother.
I find it fascinating that people continue to demand that those of faith moderate their faith so as to "step into the 21st century." I am not religious at all, not one bit, but I would ask you, would you alter/change your core beliefs just to be trendy?
Much of what is happening in the 21st century is just a fad, should someone alter their core beliefs to satisfy a fad?
Note, no matter what you think, Obama and his wife attended Reverend Wright's church for decades, THAT is the kind of Christian they are. One cannot get around that, and be honest. If that type of christian is "better than "Catholic Fanatics" in your eyes, so be it.
If that type of christian is "better than "Catholic Fanatics" in your eyes, so be it.
Point one: Catholics are Christians. There are orthodox and capital "O" Catholics of which I am one. Orthodox simply means that one follows the rules and dogma of the Church either the Roman rite or the Eastern rite.
Point two: The term "Catholic Fanatics" is simply a pejorative term used by people who are either uninformed, or referring to those they deem too true to the Magisterium, and the "T" and small "t" traditions of the church because their behaviors seem fanatical to their likes or dislikes of some Catholics.
Point three: No, I would change my beliefs now or ever. I took nine moths to decide whether I wanted to be Catholic or not in 2006. I made my voluntary decision at age 70 to renew what I was taught in grammar school.
There are millions, and millions not faithful to the Church, but call themselves Catholic and probably will not stand-up against abortion, euthanasia, divorce, same-sex marriage, fornication, contraception and all things surrounding sex.
The whole bug-boo in society and the church is about sex, and being allowed to do whatever they want. The Catholic faith has believed the same thing for 2,000 years, and this was reinforced at the Council of Trent in the 1600 hundreds as well again. The church has never changed its stand and it never will change... no matter what the masses say. Amen.
Call it what it is! Murdering a human iin the womb of a mother.
What it is is that abortion is NOT murder, no matter how much you think otherwise!
Pro-choice is a euphemism which makes people feel good about their choice to kill a baby in the womb.
Wrong! Pro choice is nothing more than the stance that a woman has the right to choose for herself regarding her health decisions, including the decision surrounding abortion, which also includes the choice to NOT have an abortion. It seems you either equate pro choice with "pro-abortion," or don't really understand what pro choice means.
The whole bug-boo in society and the church is about sex, and being allowed to do whatever they want.
Funny how the church seems so obsessed with the issues of sex.
The Catholic faith has believed the same thing for 2,000 years, and this was reinforced at the Council of Trent in the 1600 hundreds as well again.
They've always been behind the times!
The church has never changed its stand and it never will change... no matter what the masses say.
Which is why the church is seeing an exodus of parishoners. The church wants to stay in the Dark Ages and not join the 21st century!
but call themselves Catholic and probably will not stand-up against abortion, euthanasia, divorce, same-sex marriage, fornication, contraception and all things surrounding sex.
Unless you're actually involved in any of those things, it's really no one else's, much less the church's, business!
The term "Catholic Fanatics" is simply a pejorative term used by people who are either uninformed
Yeah, and pro choice is a euphanism, right? >sarc <
There you have it! The orthodoxy will kill the church. Failure to change will be its demise! The Church is more concerned with its image than the spirit of Christianity which is compassion for the people. The Church is supposed to belong to the masses not the other way around.
It is indeed fortunate that Mr. Michael Voris does not represent the Magisterium of the Catholic church nor do his opinions on secular politics reflect the catechismic teachings of the church. Catholics, be they lay or clerical, may offer their opinions based on their personal beliefs but such opinions are not sanctioned by the church nor do they carry any ecclesiastical weight.
Vatican II outlined a priests, but particularly a Bishops, authority to teach and instruct, only on matters central to the churchs dogma and faith and morals. While a Bishop may make pronouncements on matters outside their authority, such as voting for Obama, they may NOT attach the stigma of sin to that. This is to say, voting for Obama MAY lead a Catholic away from eternal salvation, which watching TV does a much better job, but may not state nor imply that to vote for him would be a sin.
Mr. Voris is using religion to advance an ideological goal. Nothing in his harangue indicates a sincere desire to lead souls to Christ or eternal salvation. Catholics would do well to be cautious of lay and clerics whom enter the political ring.
First of all the church belongs to God. It's name is Catholic...Which means universal, for all. If Jesus wanted to change the Ten Commandments, he would have. Paul wrote extensively how to go about living that life. Man's relations with one and other are pretty much the same since God made us, man and woman.
Yes, SEX is what all of the conflict is about! It is not our will, but God's will . The world powers, almost always, can agree on many complicated issues. But isn't it strange that sex has always been the most divisive issue?
Finally, A.A., the TAG you posted was one lay persons opinion. He writes ignorantly about celibacy. The priest represents Christ on earth, and a woman cannot do that.
There you have it! The orthodoxy will kill the church.
It certainly hasn't! So, why has it lasted through 265 popes, and 2,000 years, or two millenniums? Lord knows millions, like you, have made similar predictions, and guess what they have never come true.
Gordy,
Funny how the church seems so obsessed with the issues of sex.
The church is not obsessed about sex. It simply teaches based on the original truth, "the Ten Commandments" and Jesus' teaching while he was on earth.
Consider this: When "Humanae Vitae" was written (Human Life) by Pope Paul VI in 1968, the women of the world had expected that "contraception" would become allowed, and it was denied. The reasoning is in the TAG in this sentence. The Family is the most important component of our society and civilization. Divorce murders, or separates the most important vow anyone of us will ever make, marriage.
Why is it that important? Because it separates a union between a man and a woman who became one flesh out of love for one and other. God loves people who are charged with the responsibility of creating families, and the church has the responsibility to preserve the family.
Witness the declining birth rates in the modern world, and you will see that we are contracepting ourselves out of existence. Pope Paul VI predicted as much in his short document Humanae Vitae, TAG above. I suggest it would benefit you to read what a truly holy man wrote about sex, and it's role in our lives.
There are many Catholics who would argue that "Humanae Vitae" should have been made under "ex cathedra" as it was something "new." Few people, especially Catholics, understand what Papal "infallibility" is, as the encyclical was a reaffirmation of what is called "Sacred Tradition" and was already and accepted part of the faith and morals of the church. This was explained in the Summa Theologica by St. Thomas Aquinas which was subsequently part of the writings of St Augustine.
As I learned this (I am not Catholic but took Catholic Theology at a Jesuit run university, for three semesters) "sex" is a gift from God which should be used to procreate life, life that Catholics believe, begins at the moment of conception. This life has a soul which God wants. In the matter of birth control, doing anything that interferes with the process of procreation (which produces a soul) is a direct sin against God...as opposed to abortion, which is a sin against man. Once conception happens and a soul comes into being, it is theologically considered murder as God can claim the soul which was innocently aborted.
This differs from birth control which is sex, without the possibility of procreation and of course the creation of a soul and is a direct affront to God by denying Him/Her/It, a soul. It is also the very reason that the Catholic core objection to homosexuality exists, is because our sex will not produce children.
I don't accept this but my particular belief, which does accept a supreme divinity or force, teaches me to be understanding and tolerant of different faiths.
So, are you infering Micheal Voris is guilty of heresy(untruth)?
I agree with you that he hammers his accusations against what he sees and hears pretty hard, but of the presentations of his that I have listened to, I have not seen anything out of the ordinary.
This is to say, voting for Obama MAY lead a Catholic away from eternal salvation, which watching TV does a much better job, but may not state nor imply that to vote for him would be a sin.
The letters that our Bishop sent out to his flock spelled out quite clearly what "Grave matter" was and politicians who advocated: abortion, same-sex marriage, and protecting the sanctity of marriage were areas of concern for the church. You are correct the Church demurs telling the flock who to vote for, and not to vote for. But, apparently it all fell on deaf ears, because many of the alleged 75 million Catholics voted for Obama.
I think Mr. Voris is sincere, and his interest's are; nevertheless, his presentations are self-serving since he owns the company.
I do not doubt the sincerity of Mr. Voris's beliefs, I do however, question his motives. This cacophony of accusations in regards to Obama pushing a "socialist" agenda is getting tired and is just right-wing propaganda. Barack Obama is too much of a corporate tool.
And God is not to be doled out and owned by the Church. God belongs to us all and not the exclusive property of the CC. The Church's policy of ex-communication and castigation with the threat of hell is just plain wrong. Let God (whatever it is) make the judgement not a bevy of old men who know nothing. Just because they call it God's word does not mean they know what they are talking about.
The CC has left Jesus out of Christianity. The CC has left spirituality in the dust for the sake of dogma and control of the masses thru. the misuse of the idea of God! Shame
I don't call it murder. Why is my opinion less valid than the Church's? Murder is to bring a being into the world and not be able to take care of it, to abuse it, to thwart it, to dampen its spiritetc. There are a lot worse things than not being born and one of them is letting a being suffer needlessly. No one feels good about abortion. It is a heartfelt decision and instead of the fucking Church calling it murder they should be supporting people spiritually in their decision.
If there is a loving God it would be there to wrap its loving arms around us in our time of sorrow and suffering and not act like the CC by castigating and damning. Jesus from what I have been told about him would NEVER comdemn a person to hell and I just don't know why the CC thinks they can. It's a mockery to the very name of God.
What the f--- are you talking about wmolaw? You make no sense. Poor Jesus, it seems he's been sliced and diced so many ways no one knows what they are talking about. Core beliefs are always a fad to one era or another. Idea! lest try common sense for a change!
Wrong! not all churches follow or believe in the same god, much less yours! And not everyone is Cathiolic or follows catholicism. So it's clearly NOT universal for all!
Yes, SEX is what all of the conflict is about. It is not our will, but God's will
Again, not everyone follows or believes in your god! So other people's sex life, or how they choose to live, is NONE of your business, especially if it has nothing to do with you or affect you in any way. It seems you want your religion imposed on everyone else! Not going to happen!
The Church is not obsessed with sex.
Of course it is! Otherwise, it wouldn't make such a big deal about it, or about how people live their lives, including their sex lives. The church is obsessed with it because it's a form of control over the masses and some people are ignorant enough to buy into that nonsense!
The Family is the most important component of our society and civilization.
That's a matter of opinion. Not everyone wants a familiy. And the term "family" doesn't necessarily apply only to blood relatives either!
the church has the responsibility to preserve the family.
No, it doesn't! That's just more BS and another form of controlling people. The only ones responsible for marriage or familyare the individuals involved in a marriage/family. No one else! Mariage is also a legal function, so your church has no say in such matters. Especially with regards to divorce or gay marriage!
Witnessing the declining birth rates in the modernworld,
Is a good thing. there are already over 7 billion people in the world. Too many people will also cause us to expand out of existance. When is enough enough?
Everyday at every Church in the world, the Mass includes three reading from the Bible, and a short homily is given by the priest saying the Mass. It is one of the key parts of the liturgy.
I f you knew what you were talking about, instead of spreading your venom about the Church, then maybe somebody would listen to you.
You sound like a voice lost in the wilderness. You are not God but, you act like you are!
Listen to yourself carefully, and you will understand where I am coming from.
No venom here and many, many, many recovering Catholics agree with me. I have never felt sofree and alivesince leaving the Church. The true meaning of experiencing the divine does not come from dogma but from love and compassion. Unfortunately, the Church does nothing to foster love and compassion- just a lot of talk about sin, damnation, and excommunication. Seriously, no Church has the power to excommunicate anyone from the divine. It is a disgrace to even think that way.
I do miss the old mass tho. but they have even managed to ruin that replacing the beautiful hymns with insipid Jesus pop songs, and shaking hands with your neighbor when you are still coming out of communion. People are soured by the Church because they have taken away something of spiritual value and left us to find other and more satisfying means of spiritual expression.
I don't know how I sound like I am God other than to say I try to find the spirit of God in all things including myself when I can. I'm sick and tired of being called a sinneramong other things that Church has called people so if I find the divine in my life I don't see how that is a big crime.
I don't need to spread venom as the Church is doing a fine job of that all by themselves.
With the recent ethics and morality shortcomings of the RCC does anyone really not understand that praying for God's forgiveness in a church so loaded with hypocrisy is 180 degrees out of phase with basic common sense much less a force for good in the world?
With the recent ethics and morality shortcomings of the RCC
Not just the RCC!
You know I came back to the church with my wife in 2006. And, I have read and studied a lot about the priest scandals. The truth is that evenone bad priest would be horrible; but, over a period of 50 years I think they have had from 1.5 to 4% priest and bishop accusals, and since the church is alleged to have deeper pockets than many of the other denominations, the legal world finds it quite easy to accuse and then they get a settlement.
Where does that leave us with cases that have been proven? I could not find a figure for that question. But, here is a summary of this tragedy as stated in the report below:
A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse by Catholic Dr. Thomas Plante of the Catholic Santa Clara University and volunteer clinical associate professor at Stanford University states that "approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor" which "is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is significantly lower than the general adult male population which may double these numbers ". [ 4 ] [ 5 ] Additionally, according to an article written by a journalist and published in Newsweek magazine, the figure in the Catholic Church is similar to that in the rest of the adult population. [ 6 ] The article is based upon a study done by John Jay College which reported the approximately 4% of clergy have abused...was compiled solely from numbers provided by Catholic Bishops, leaders of the same institution which paid John Jay College to do the study.
I wonder why the 30,000+ other religious denominations, one by one, are not sued as much as the Catholics are? One reason is the actions by the legal community would not have been so fruitful.
Our nation, as a whole, is obsessed with SEX in general, and since I was a boy in the 30's and 40's the focus on sex in the private and public domain has skyrocketed. The sex industry subsumes TV, advertising, all forms of media, newspapers, movies, magazines, periodicals to such a degree that to point the finger at anyone for sexual perversion is almost to the point of ubiquity. This lack of equal treatment of the other religious denominations leaves the Catholics with the greatest guilt burden, according to the statistics and media treatment of these sensational headlines from the whole of the media.
Homosexuality, fornication, sodomy, contraception, divorce and the complete destruction of the family unit are just some of the major factors that are contributing to the root cause of this abhorrent behavior. I don't believe this is only a Catholic Church problem.
The facts don't take away the shame of the people who are guilty of this abuse. But, sadly, there is no easy solution, nor are there concrete ways to prosecute these crimes. Innuendo and behind the scenes whispering has allowed these abuse crimes to go unreported and appropriately punished. Making sweeping accusations here on NT doesn't do one thing to correct this monstrous wave of sexual fixations, and abhorrent behavior that is affecting our society.
Standing up and fighting for protecting the dignity and honor of the family will however do a great deal of good, in my opinion. I wish we could see more of that, instead of flaming the fire with subrosa contentions.
So why is it murder? It can't survive outside the host. So why is it murder? Because your sky santa says so? If that's the case, YOU LOSE! Because you can't force your idiotic religious bullshit onto others. You're NOT pro-life at all. You're anti-choice. Any choice a person wants to be able to make that is against your archaic fairy tales, you believe people should not be able to make. That's It! ANTI-CHOICE!
Want to call something murder? How about forcing a woman to continue a birth that will kill her? THAT IS MURDER because that Woman IS ALIVE by ALL legal standards.
It appears you are mistaken about a few things, take the word "obsession" which indicates a " Compulsive preoccupation ". If you judge the CC merely by what you read in the news or what you hear from others, then I can see see where a person might be mislead as far as their teaching. However, if you have ever read their catechismic teachings or studied their dogma, you'd find sex or sexuality encompasses only a small part of the belief. It is fair for me to say the media way overplays this because sex sells.
While I don't accept their teachings on sexual morality and take umbrage at their lay and clergy trying to affect the laws of this secular nation, I can say without equivocation that they have had zero effect in changing the laws here. Given that track record, why all the outrage?
If you really want to know where the real threat to our democracy comes from, try looking to the far-religious or Christian right which has taken over the Republican party. These are WASP's (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) predominantly Evangelicals, Baptists, Pentecostals, Calvinists and Congregationalists who espouse such things as Christian Dominionism and Reconstructionism . These groups are inherently anti-catholic too.
When the Catholic Church can actually threaten my rights, then I will take action. Until then, for me, it's live and let live.
Bruce,
That is a good question. Let me say it this way. I am in a very orthodox Church; and, where we had 85% of the parish attending Mass every Sunday 4 or 5 years ago, we now have dwindled down to less than 25%.
I am told that this is the worst Mass attendance the Church has ever had!
Our Catholic faith has but one absolute that every Catholic must obey. Go to Mass every Sunday. Obviously, they are disobedient in that mandate, and when they vote for a person who is pro-abortion, and pro-partial birth (late term abortion) they are going against God's will. Of course we have Biden, Sibelius, Cuomo, and Nancy Pelosi who call themselves Catholics but violate the Ten Commandments, who knows why? It's easy. They have no faith! They are Catholics in name only.
There are about 60 million, alleged Catholics, in the US; but, obviously they don't believe in, or practice their faith. In the 4 parishes in our area, and in our Southern Dioceses, our Bishop has spoken to the issue of upholding the teachings of the faith, but a good bit of is heard by deaf ears.
Moral relativism is the prevailing attitude in our culture that is contracepting, divorcing, fornicating, itself out of existence. Were it not for the Latinos and Muslims here our population growth would be under 1 child per family. As it is we are just barely 2 children per family.
That just a small start Bruce. The Pope, the Bishops, and the Priests, Deacons, and many faithful Lay People are teaching what the faith is, but society is a complete counter-culture.
This guy is a joke! And no one is pro-abortion, one is pro-choice. There is a vast difference.The Church is supposed to be for the people not the Church to support it's own stodgy dogma. Is it any wonder whyCatholics are dropping out like mad? The Church needs to step gracefully into the 21st century and start dealing with real people with real problems and not hide behind tired dogma and outdated dictates that are obsolete. The Church has only itself to blame for its problems. Quit blaming the President- I think he is more Christian than any of the Catholic fanatics who find themselves in church every Sunday but can't find it in their hearts to be compassionate.
A.A., That is the problem!
When one calls a spade a spade, people don't like it. Pro-choice is a euphemism which makes people feel good about their choice to kill a baby in the womb. Call it what it is! Murdering a human iin the womb of a mother.
I find it fascinating that people continue to demand that those of faith moderate their faith so as to "step into the 21st century." I am not religious at all, not one bit, but I would ask you, would you alter/change your core beliefs just to be trendy?
Much of what is happening in the 21st century is just a fad, should someone alter their core beliefs to satisfy a fad?
Note, no matter what you think, Obama and his wife attended Reverend Wright's church for decades, THAT is the kind of Christian they are. One cannot get around that, and be honest. If that type of christian is "better than "Catholic Fanatics" in your eyes, so be it.
Wmolaw,
Point one: Catholics are Christians. There are orthodox and capital "O" Catholics of which I am one. Orthodox simply means that one follows the rules and dogma of the Church either the Roman rite or the Eastern rite.
Point two: The term "Catholic Fanatics" is simply a pejorative term used by people who are either uninformed, or referring to those they deem too true to the Magisterium, and the "T" and small "t" traditions of the church because their behaviors seem fanatical to their likes or dislikes of some Catholics.
Point three: No, I would change my beliefs now or ever. I took nine moths to decide whether I wanted to be Catholic or not in 2006. I made my voluntary decision at age 70 to renew what I was taught in grammar school.
There are millions, and millions not faithful to the Church, but call themselves Catholic and probably will not stand-up against abortion, euthanasia, divorce, same-sex marriage, fornication, contraception and all things surrounding sex.
The whole bug-boo in society and the church is about sex, and being allowed to do whatever they want. The Catholic faith has believed the same thing for 2,000 years, and this was reinforced at the Council of Trent in the 1600 hundreds as well again. The church has never changed its stand and it never will change... no matter what the masses say. Amen.
What it is is that abortion is NOT murder, no matter how much you think otherwise!
Wrong! Pro choice is nothing more than the stance that a woman has the right to choose for herself regarding her health decisions, including the decision surrounding abortion, which also includes the choice to NOT have an abortion. It seems you either equate pro choice with "pro-abortion," or don't really understand what pro choice means.
Funny how the church seems so obsessed with the issues of sex.
They've always been behind the times!
Which is why the church is seeing an exodus of parishoners. The church wants to stay in the Dark Ages and not join the 21st century!
Unless you're actually involved in any of those things, it's really no one else's, much less the church's, business!
Yeah, and pro choice is a euphanism, right? >sarc <
There you have it! The orthodoxy will kill the church. Failure to change will be its demise! The Church is more concerned with its image than the spirit of Christianity which is compassion for the people. The Church is supposed to belong to the masses not the other way around.
Now here's a little something to consider:
It is indeed fortunate that Mr. Michael Voris does not represent the Magisterium of the Catholic church nor do his opinions on secular politics reflect the catechismic teachings of the church. Catholics, be they lay or clerical, may offer their opinions based on their personal beliefs but such opinions are not sanctioned by the church nor do they carry any ecclesiastical weight.
Vatican II outlined a priests, but particularly a Bishops, authority to teach and instruct, only on matters central to the churchs dogma and faith and morals. While a Bishop may make pronouncements on matters outside their authority, such as voting for Obama, they may NOT attach the stigma of sin to that. This is to say, voting for Obama MAY lead a Catholic away from eternal salvation, which watching TV does a much better job, but may not state nor imply that to vote for him would be a sin.
Mr. Voris is using religion to advance an ideological goal. Nothing in his harangue indicates a sincere desire to lead souls to Christ or eternal salvation. Catholics would do well to be cautious of lay and clerics whom enter the political ring.
A.A. and Gordy,
First of all the church belongs to God. It's name is Catholic...Which means universal, for all. If Jesus wanted to change the Ten Commandments, he would have. Paul wrote extensively how to go about living that life. Man's relations with one and other are pretty much the same since God made us, man and woman.
Yes, SEX is what all of the conflict is about! It is not our will, but God's will . The world powers, almost always, can agree on many complicated issues. But isn't it strange that sex has always been the most divisive issue?
Finally, A.A., the TAG you posted was one lay persons opinion. He writes ignorantly about celibacy. The priest represents Christ on earth, and a woman cannot do that.
It certainly hasn't! So, why has it lasted through 265 popes, and 2,000 years, or two millenniums? Lord knows millions, like you, have made similar predictions, and guess what they have never come true.
Gordy,
The church is not obsessed about sex. It simply teaches based on the original truth, "the Ten Commandments" and Jesus' teaching while he was on earth.
Consider this: When "Humanae Vitae" was written (Human Life) by Pope Paul VI in 1968, the women of the world had expected that "contraception" would become allowed, and it was denied. The reasoning is in the TAG in this sentence. The Family is the most important component of our society and civilization. Divorce murders, or separates the most important vow anyone of us will ever make, marriage.
Why is it that important? Because it separates a union between a man and a woman who became one flesh out of love for one and other. God loves people who are charged with the responsibility of creating families, and the church has the responsibility to preserve the family.
Witness the declining birth rates in the modern world, and you will see that we are contracepting ourselves out of existence. Pope Paul VI predicted as much in his short document Humanae Vitae, TAG above. I suggest it would benefit you to read what a truly holy man wrote about sex, and it's role in our lives.
I promise you it was not about an obsession!
There are many Catholics who would argue that "Humanae Vitae" should have been made under "ex cathedra" as it was something "new." Few people, especially Catholics, understand what Papal "infallibility" is, as the encyclical was a reaffirmation of what is called "Sacred Tradition" and was already and accepted part of the faith and morals of the church. This was explained in the Summa Theologica by St. Thomas Aquinas which was subsequently part of the writings of St Augustine.
As I learned this (I am not Catholic but took Catholic Theology at a Jesuit run university, for three semesters) "sex" is a gift from God which should be used to procreate life, life that Catholics believe, begins at the moment of conception. This life has a soul which God wants. In the matter of birth control, doing anything that interferes with the process of procreation (which produces a soul) is a direct sin against God...as opposed to abortion, which is a sin against man. Once conception happens and a soul comes into being, it is theologically considered murder as God can claim the soul which was innocently aborted.
This differs from birth control which is sex, without the possibility of procreation and of course the creation of a soul and is a direct affront to God by denying Him/Her/It, a soul. It is also the very reason that the Catholic core objection to homosexuality exists, is because our sex will not produce children.
I don't accept this but my particular belief, which does accept a supreme divinity or force, teaches me to be understanding and tolerant of different faiths.
Hi AeonPax,
So, are you infering Micheal Voris is guilty of heresy(untruth)?
I agree with you that he hammers his accusations against what he sees and hears pretty hard, but of the presentations of his that I have listened to, I have not seen anything out of the ordinary.
The letters that our Bishop sent out to his flock spelled out quite clearly what "Grave matter" was and politicians who advocated: abortion, same-sex marriage, and protecting the sanctity of marriage were areas of concern for the church. You are correct the Church demurs telling the flock who to vote for, and not to vote for. But, apparently it all fell on deaf ears, because many of the alleged 75 million Catholics voted for Obama.
I think Mr. Voris is sincere, and his interest's are; nevertheless, his presentations are self-serving since he owns the company.
Greetings Mr. Courtios,
I do not doubt the sincerity of Mr. Voris's beliefs, I do however, question his motives. This cacophony of accusations in regards to Obama pushing a "socialist" agenda is getting tired and is just right-wing propaganda. Barack Obama is too much of a corporate tool.
And God is not to be doled out and owned by the Church. God belongs to us all and not the exclusive property of the CC. The Church's policy of ex-communication and castigation with the threat of hell is just plain wrong. Let God (whatever it is) make the judgement not a bevy of old men who know nothing. Just because they call it God's word does not mean they know what they are talking about.
The CC has left Jesus out of Christianity. The CC has left spirituality in the dust for the sake of dogma and control of the masses thru. the misuse of the idea of God! Shame
I don't call it murder. Why is my opinion less valid than the Church's? Murder is to bring a being into the world and not be able to take care of it, to abuse it, to thwart it, to dampen its spiritetc. There are a lot worse things than not being born and one of them is letting a being suffer needlessly. No one feels good about abortion. It is a heartfelt decision and instead of the fucking Church calling it murder they should be supporting people spiritually in their decision.
If there is a loving God it would be there to wrap its loving arms around us in our time of sorrow and suffering and not act like the CC by castigating and damning. Jesus from what I have been told about him would NEVER comdemn a person to hell and I just don't know why the CC thinks they can. It's a mockery to the very name of God.
What the f--- are you talking about wmolaw? You make no sense. Poor Jesus, it seems he's been sliced and diced so many ways no one knows what they are talking about. Core beliefs are always a fad to one era or another. Idea! lest try common sense for a change!
Happy Blue, I'm with you.
And mixing politics with religion even more toxic.
Wrong! not all churches follow or believe in the same god, much less yours! And not everyone is Cathiolic or follows catholicism. So it's clearly NOT universal for all!
Again, not everyone follows or believes in your god! So other people's sex life, or how they choose to live, is NONE of your business, especially if it has nothing to do with you or affect you in any way. It seems you want your religion imposed on everyone else! Not going to happen!
Of course it is! Otherwise, it wouldn't make such a big deal about it, or about how people live their lives, including their sex lives. The church is obsessed with it because it's a form of control over the masses and some people are ignorant enough to buy into that nonsense!
That's a matter of opinion. Not everyone wants a familiy. And the term "family" doesn't necessarily apply only to blood relatives either!
No, it doesn't! That's just more BS and another form of controlling people. The only ones responsible for marriage or familyare the individuals involved in a marriage/family. No one else! Mariage is also a legal function, so your church has no say in such matters. Especially with regards to divorce or gay marriage!
Is a good thing. there are already over 7 billion people in the world. Too many people will also cause us to expand out of existance. When is enough enough?
A.A.
Everyday at every Church in the world, the Mass includes three reading from the Bible, and a short homily is given by the priest saying the Mass. It is one of the key parts of the liturgy.
I f you knew what you were talking about, instead of spreading your venom about the Church, then maybe somebody would listen to you.
You sound like a voice lost in the wilderness. You are not God but, you act like you are!
Listen to yourself carefully, and you will understand where I am coming from.
Sour grapes never taste good...
No venom here and many, many, many recovering Catholics agree with me. I have never felt sofree and alivesince leaving the Church. The true meaning of experiencing the divine does not come from dogma but from love and compassion. Unfortunately, the Church does nothing to foster love and compassion- just a lot of talk about sin, damnation, and excommunication. Seriously, no Church has the power to excommunicate anyone from the divine. It is a disgrace to even think that way.
I do miss the old mass tho. but they have even managed to ruin that replacing the beautiful hymns with insipid Jesus pop songs, and shaking hands with your neighbor when you are still coming out of communion. People are soured by the Church because they have taken away something of spiritual value and left us to find other and more satisfying means of spiritual expression.
I don't know how I sound like I am God other than to say I try to find the spirit of God in all things including myself when I can. I'm sick and tired of being called a sinneramong other things that Church has called people so if I find the divine in my life I don't see how that is a big crime.
I don't need to spread venom as the Church is doing a fine job of that all by themselves.
With the recent ethics and morality shortcomings of the RCC does anyone really not understand that praying for God's forgiveness in a church so loaded with hypocrisy is 180 degrees out of phase with basic common sense much less a force for good in the world?
One Really Fed Up Boomer,
Not just the RCC!
You know I came back to the church with my wife in 2006. And, I have read and studied a lot about the priest scandals. The truth is that evenone bad priest would be horrible; but, over a period of 50 years I think they have had from 1.5 to 4% priest and bishop accusals, and since the church is alleged to have deeper pockets than many of the other denominations, the legal world finds it quite easy to accuse and then they get a settlement.
Where does that leave us with cases that have been proven? I could not find a figure for that question. But, here is a summary of this tragedy as stated in the report below:
So why is it murder? It can't survive outside the host. So why is it murder? Because your sky santa says so? If that's the case, YOU LOSE! Because you can't force your idiotic religious bullshit onto others. You're NOT pro-life at all. You're anti-choice. Any choice a person wants to be able to make that is against your archaic fairy tales, you believe people should not be able to make. That's It! ANTI-CHOICE!
Want to call something murder? How about forcing a woman to continue a birth that will kill her? THAT IS MURDER because that Woman IS ALIVE by ALL legal standards.
It appears you are mistaken about a few things, take the word "obsession" which indicates a " Compulsive preoccupation ". If you judge the CC merely by what you read in the news or what you hear from others, then I can see see where a person might be mislead as far as their teaching. However, if you have ever read their catechismic teachings or studied their dogma, you'd find sex or sexuality encompasses only a small part of the belief. It is fair for me to say the media way overplays this because sex sells.
While I don't accept their teachings on sexual morality and take umbrage at their lay and clergy trying to affect the laws of this secular nation, I can say without equivocation that they have had zero effect in changing the laws here. Given that track record, why all the outrage?
If you really want to know where the real threat to our democracy comes from, try looking to the far-religious or Christian right which has taken over the Republican party. These are WASP's (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) predominantly Evangelicals, Baptists, Pentecostals, Calvinists and Congregationalists who espouse such things as Christian Dominionism and Reconstructionism . These groups are inherently anti-catholic too.
When the Catholic Church can actually threaten my rights, then I will take action. Until then, for me, it's live and let live.