Ladies and Gents - Subject: The Double Standard *just for fun*
**DISCLAIMER** - This is not to begin arguments nor to slam others. This is simply a fun and interesting discussion that can go awry.
Jobs and Sexism - seemingly lessening on the sexist attitude.
To begin, as most of you know, I work in a male dominated field. When I was first out in the auto world, I ran into much more sexism than I do now. I've been in "man land" for 18 years now. The only reason I was even hired at Firestone was because of the office manager. She told the store manager that she'd give me the phone number to her lawyer if he didn't hire me. See, there was no one else that had applied for the position and I was plenty qualified to perform oil changes and tire swaps.
Now, while I see a little sexist attitude, it isn't much. Believe it or not, it's mostly from the younger people, not the "baby boomers" or older. I really enjoy doing what I do and the majority of the men I work with think it's pretty damn cool that I do what I do or know what I know. Some have even had to come to ask me how to go about performing a task because no one else wanted to learn how in the first place.
Sex and Sexism - still shocks when a female thinks or talks like a man.
Even though in the employment world the double standard seems to be fading considerably, naughty thought or verbalization seems to hold a heavy double standard and quite prominently. Do I blame mensolely? Hell no! That would make me just as shitty as the sexist bastards. See, when a woman has an openly "filthy mind" people seem shocked that a "lady" would think like that. The only difference between someone such as myself and a woman that considers herself too much of a lady to ( fill in the blank) is that I actually find sexual discussion healthy and a part of our natural being. Trust me when I say that the majority of women think like a "filthy man", they just may not be vocal about it.
Where does the double standard come in? Oh, let me count the ways. If a woman is verbal about sex. enjoys it, and likely has had much of it (whether with one or several people) are most often, considered sluts or skanks. However, when men do the very same thing, it is most often brushed off as, "Oh, he's just being a man."
Don't get me wrong, there are people out there with an open mind and no judgments that come to mind. My husband is most certainly one of them. He knows everything about me and loves every part, filthy thoughts/acts and all.
Overly PC?
An example of what I mean by this comment/question. There is a woman that I see who dresses scantily. Men (and women) take notice. DUH, right? Well, she is also known for taking people to our human resources dept. simply for checking her out. Fortunately, for those that have been complained about, our HR dept. is brutally honest and suggested that she choose a different style of dress if she didn't want to be looked upon in such a manner. However, this isn't the case everywhere. Now, there have been plenty of comments and suggestions made to me that could have landed people in the HR office, but I am very aware the environment I chose to work and it honestly does not bother me. Words do not equate offense in my world. You know the oldadage, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." While words may bruise the heart on occasion, verbally expressing an attraction in a positive manner does not... At least to me, it's a compliment.
It seems that there are only two extremes: People that are overly sensitive and then there those like me that want people to say what they mean and mean what they say, but no holds barred in either direction.
Lastly, have fun and get dirty if ya like! 
Let me be the first to say LoneRanger01 is not a sexist.....
.....if LR wants to have sex he just smiles and babies start appearing in the middle of fields littered with baby kittens,.....
thank you Morgan Freeman for that line......
???? Not like a MI girl to not say anything.
You said everything that needed to be said!
What more could I say? You did a damn fine job!
I think it is unfortunate that more women don't have your attitude Ms A . If they did then this kind of thing would not be necessary :
TEDxSF - Nicole Daedone - Orgasm: The Cure for Hunger in the Western Woman
Yer right on all counts, but this is dangerous territory, young lady.
There was a young lady at my office, she was a secretary of a fellow whose unit I supervised. She was ever flirtatious, frequently aiming her flirtations at me. If any male was flirtatious with her, she would file grievances against them, which, being the supervisor, I usually had to handle.
One day she goes to the ladies room and comes out with wet hands, walks up to me and dries her hands on my dress shirt. She thought it was hilarious.
I typed up a written warning to her, placed it in her personnel file and gave her a copy. She righteously went stark raving berserk, claiming discrimination (she was Hispanic, I am a gringo) and generally had a loud cussing fit all over the office. She filed a grievance against me, of course, claiming that I deserved her drying her hands on me because there were no towels in the ladies room and, since I was a supervisor, I should have provided towels in the ladies room. Her grievance was dismissed and the letter stayed in her personnel file.
So, Aubs, which of your categories does this fall into? She was a female and she figured she could pull shenanigans, but she had fits if any male stepped out of line - sort of "I am woman, hear me roar" but the guys in the office better not make a peep.
Anyway, to end the tale, she was furious and found work with another agency, thankfully. I was a gentleman and told her, since she was leaving, I would remove the letter of reprimand from her file since the file would follow her to her new job.
The whole office breathed a sigh of relief when she left. Even the other women were happy because she was always in their faces, too.
Did I do the right thing, or was I being way too PC and Mr. Double Standard by not letting a poor, downtrodden woman with wet hands dry them on my dress shirt?
Yeah, this one gets me. Frankly, I think no differently of a guy that been busy then I do a woman.
I like compliments so long as they don't come with hands. But be careful. You hand one out to me, you might get one back, LOL. Damn, I'm such a tease!
@ Perrie,
Not to play grammar police, but this got me going.
Yeah, this one gets me. Frankly, I think no differently of a guy that been busy then I do a woman.
Can I watch ? One little e changes alot.
I suppose this would be a good time to point out that Perrie is "spelling challenged " . It does not reflect on her thinking abilities ...
Golly, I think that is the longest comment I have ever seen you make, Marine. Yes, as long as it's all in good fun. But, damn it all anyway, there are folks, both men and women, who will take advantage of the fun in an instant. You handled the one above just right, I think. No comfortable way around that one for anyone.
She was an overbearing, over sensitive, sexist herself. I didn't say that men were the only sexist a-holes.
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Well I'm just an old prude, I believe womenshould be seen and not heard...Oh wait, that's kids.
I alway put women on a pedestal, I like to look at their legs.
I met my wife on a beach in Mexico..She was sitting in the sand and I was thunderstruck, walked up to her and said, ''are you taken'', she said no. I said,''you are now''. The next 32 years havebeen a hoot.
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Great article, Ms. Aubrey-- I enjoyed it!
Most of the sexism I've encountered has had to do with career advancement. Yeah, I've been told that if I slept with this one or that one, I would get a job, (I was a consultant for 20 years). Yeah, I've been told not to do things just because I'm a woman. Or not believed, just because I was a woman.
It is still out and about, but it isn't as bad as when I first started out. I don't know if headway is being made, or I'm just too old to be a femme fatale anymore...
It always annoys me when someone doesn't believe that I know what I'm talking about, just because I'm female. My fellow geologists are like that, sometimes, and it makes me want to thump them. And the drillers seem to think that just because I'm female, I've never been out in the field and they can lie to me. It can get rough out there sometimes.
I find it annoying that I have to prove myself, over and over and over again... Every new drilling crew requires a breaking in period, where they won't keep the hole clean, and they lie to me about footage, etc. I work with them, to get the samples I need-- but without fail, it has to get tense first. Just part of the job, I guess.
I don't Gunny, I have two feet.
I have the same break in period Dowser and can relate. Guys just dont thinkgals can do math and science... it's sad we have to prove it to them first.
It doesn't help that young women are prone to question themselves more than young men. I've definitely learned to be confident in my statements and experiments at work... but then you get the other edge of the knife when they start calling you a bitch.
Sometimes... you just can't win.
I'd much rather be called a bitch than stupid.
LOL, y'all! They may in normal life, but, when drilling, it can be really critical... They are always amazed that I keep up with the footage-- and know what they're drilling into by watching the pull down pressure, the footage, and listening to the rig.
I hate it when they lie to me. They'll say something like, "we're at 56 feet", and I'll say, are you sure? You've just put two stems in the hole at 20' each, and you're 6' from the top... That's 46'. It catches them off guard.
My objective is to get good samples, not "make hole"-- and they don't really understand that sometimes. I remind them that they are paid by the foot, BUT, they won't be paid at all if I don't get decent samples... Which makes me mean, I guess.
You're right.
I usually bring enough drinks and snacks for everyone, stress that we're a team, restate our objectives, (decent samples), and offer suggestions at first. Then, while these young whippersnappers have no idea about things, I help them level out the pit, and the rig, etc. They haven't a clue, some of them. Sheesh!
But, like Ms. Aubrey, I'd rather be called a bitch than stupid. Or to let them pull the wool over my eyes. I've told them, at times, "Shut it down." and talked with the driller off to the side, away from his crew. "It's up to you to manage your crew-- so get to managing. You've got too much carry-over and there shouldn't be ANY. The pit is dirty, clean it out. Float the bit through the sands and gravels-- no pull down pressure. Pull up and rotate in the clay until the hole is clean." ad nauseum . It wins me no friends, but that's not my job.
Spelling challenged I can relate to that. Women who bait men to get them in trouble with HR can destroy the harmony in the entire office. The rational as to why they do it evades me. Any one have insight as to their thought process.
Nope, sure don't... But you're right, it happens.
Some people just behave badly, I guess.
you did the right thing, and many times, I wish it could be done in civilian life, too.
Conduct unbecoming to a professional. Period.
I am the sole female in our office. I'm also the manager, and as my boss says "Do you want to talk to the man in charge (him) or the woman who actually knows what is going on (me)."
When I was first elevated/demoted to my current position (I used to be the "bookkeeper") by the death of our previous manager...one of the guys told my boss "Hey, I love her to death, she's a great girl (I was 53)...but no woman is going to give me orders and tell me what to do!" (Despite the fact that his mother still bought his underwear for him and he was 45 at the time...pffft.)
We didn't make an issue of it, and I let my boss take the lead with him for a few months...and sure enough, he was the first one to start coming to me with problems and asking me to make decisions, and bypassing my boss. The rest of the guys don't appear to resent it much...at least, not to my face...and since one of the "guys" is my husband (try being your husband's boss for a while...loads of fun, let me tell you) I doubt that they say too much behind my back, although a former sales rep once bragged to my husband how he was landing me with all his work and still getting paid a commission for it...note I said "former" sales rep.
The main "sexist" problem I've had was with a woman we hired. She insisted that she wanted equal treatment...which I don't have a problem with...and refused to do anything that she considered "women's work"...which in a small company was a bit of a problem, because we all do whatever needs to be done when necessary, no one really has a job description...but not a deal breaker...but then, when it came down to her doing something she felt was "a man's job"...she didn't want to do that either.
We were moving offices, and all of us pitched in to move boxes, hang up samples, put up the display racks in the showroom...except her. Stating that she wasn't going to do any "heavy lifting" when we had men available to do it for her, she instructed them where to place her desk, then they had to move it because the area she was attempting to stake out wasn't where we had planned for her to be...then insisted that "her" file boxes, etc...from her old office be placed in her new area, after which she sat in her chair directing one of the guys where to hang her pictures, where to place her filing cabinets, etc...and didn't lift a finger to help with anything else.
She told me I was an "idiot" for doing so much myself, that was what men were for, to do heavy lifting...and I was letting them take advantage of me because I wouldn't stand up for myself. After the move, the guys cordially despised her...and any cooperation she was getting from them went to hell in a handbasket.
Eventually, the situation deteriorated so badly that they would come to me to ask a question about one of her projects with her standing right there, and would pointedly ignore her. Then she claimed that they were treating her that way because she was a woman...and I had to tell her, "No, honey, they are treating you that way because you are a bitch. You bad mouth them, you tell them they are only good for heavy lifting and they should "stop trying to think, they aren't qualified to do so"...and you wonder why they despise you?"
So...then she hated me too, and after throwing a particularly virulent fit one day in the office and screaming at me in front of a customer ("Jesus Christ, aren't you smart enough to see I'm talking to someone...take a message...do you think you can do that!!!)...my boss fired her. He had wanted to do so for months, and I had kept insisting that we could make it work, she was a very talented sales person, could be charming whenshe wanted to beand I wanted to keep her, but...
I have no patience at all with women who complain that they want equal rights but refuse to accept equal responsibilities. If you don't want to clean up around the showroom because that's "women's work", but you expect men to do "heavy" lifting for you (and I'm 62 and could lift those boxes with ease)...then you don't want "equal" rights, you want special ones.
There sure are people around like that, for sure!
Yeah, I've spent a lot of time shoveling out the mud pit, and collecting the samples, and keeping my logs, etc. I can't carry a big bag of drilling mud, but I can drag one-- and that's what I did. We all have to work together.
I remember one time, I was at a different office, and I asked the secretary that answered the phone where the coffee maker was-- She got in a huff and stormed around. I wanted to get a cup of coffee, not her get it for me. She finally calmed down after I explained that I was perfectly capable, ready, willing, and able to get my own coffee, but I'd never been to this office before and had no idea where it was...
Sigh! Misunderstanding abound, sometimes, it seems...
As an Air Force guy, going over to a 'remote' assignement to be a shop Superintendent, a Chief, who was also a mentor only had one thing to say: Don't F**k the help'. He meant that in every way. Smart way to live
Very smart!
And Daddy always said, "Don't sh*t in your mess kit," too.
Absolutely agree fully Merleliz. I too am the only woman in our shop area. My boss told our VP that I am the person that knows what's going on around here & to talk to me for questions. Yet, I'm still holding the label of Prototype Mechanical Tech. Hmmm. Oh well, they're paying for my extended education.
I am an administrator in my company. I report directly to and take order from only the owner. On corporate paper, I'm #2 in the chain of command and the CEO is #3. However, because of my unique duties, I seldom (if ever) get involved in the day to day operations of which our CEO is most capable. Once and only once, I overrode a million dollar plus decision of his, blocking some property acquisitions until further research could be completed. He was not at all happy....I'm understating this.
As it turned out, I was right concerning zoning restrictions which the seller was not legally forthright in mentioning and the CEO apologized profusely.
Later, over our apology dinner, he admitted to me that it was because I was a female who dared to countermand his authority, that he got so angry. Male hubris.
I see a long road ahead still in regards to women being accepted as an equal but there is still, a light at the end of the tunnel.
Wait till Minnie gets her hands/feet on you Mickey....ROTFL