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Editor of Science Magazine Should Resign!

  

Category:  Environment/Climate

Via:  xxjefferson51  •  9 years ago  •  77 comments

Editor of Science Magazine Should Resign!
The 3 July 2015 issue of Science features a remarkable editorial by Editor Marcia McNutt. Titled The beyond-two-degree inferno, it suggests that an anthropogenic greenhouse (GH) warming of more than 2 degrees C (global average) will literally cause hell on earth, unless we can all agree to reduce emissions of the infernal GH-gas carbon dioxide preferably before or at a UN-sponsored mega-confab in Paris in December. This much-hyped event, to be attended by nearly 200 national delegations and thousands of hangers-on, has even been endorsed in a papal encyclical, referred to, somewhat irreverently, as a Pope-sicle by my Virginia colleague Dr Charles Battig.McNutts editorial claims a global threat to food supplies, health, ecosystem services, and the general viability of the planet. Yet none of these threats are supported by any scientific evidence -- even from the usually alarmist UN-IPCC. She fails to remind us that atmospheric CO2 is the essential ingredient for sustaining carbon-based life on Earth. The low CO2 levels during the recent ice age severely limited the rate of photosynthesis; at slightly lower levels, we and almost all living things on the Earths surface would just starve and die. And she takes for granted that rising CO2 will cause significant Global Warming (GW), with all the usual calamities that are recited by climate alarmists -- in spite of overwhelming evidence for absence of 21st-century warming.As geologist Dudley Hughes wrote in May 2007 in Environment & Climate News, [L]ittle publicity is given to the large number of qualified scientists whocontend that if CO2 plays any part in global warming, it is so insignificant that it can barely be measured, let alone be the major cause. And: [T]he claim that increased carbon dioxide is causing global warming has no more scientific foundation than the bloodletting of past generations.His words are backed by the five reports (in English) of the independent NIPCC (Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change), issued since 2008 and based on many thousands of references collected from peer-reviewed journals by nearly 100 well-qualified climate scientists; they included many papers ignored by the IPCC. The brief Overview-NIPCC volume of 2008 was translated into several European languages; the Chinese Academy of Sciences translated and published a substantial NIPCC summary volume in 2013.But McNutt is not interested in listening to contrary evidence. The time for debate has ended. Action is urgently needed. What a strange position to take for the editor of a leading and (formerly) respected international science journal! She should resign her job and allow someone else to take her place -- someone who recognizes that debate is essential for scientific progress.Maybe McNutt really believes that GW has never really paused and that reducing CO2 levels can make a noticeable difference. That could happen only if she reads the evidence selectively and rejects all evidence to the contrary. Or maybe she is cynically playing along with current White House policy, even though it is completely uninformed and misguided, in the hope it will benefit Science mag and herself.Yet another possibility is that she is nave enough to believe that the worlds nations are actually worried about a small amount of climate warming; in reality, the game is about money and political power. She seems oblivious to the fact that China snookered Obama in their November 2014 climate agreement; but she seems really disturbed about Indias plans, and insensitive to that nations desperate need for reliable, secure, and low-cost electric power: Unfortunately, [energy minister] Piyush Goyal intends to double his nations coal production by the year 2019 to meet domestic energy requirements. Indias CO2 emissions will soon match Chinas and, together, will make irrelevant any emission reductions by the rest of the world; after all, its the global CO2 level that counts. Could someone please explain this to McNutt?As for myself, I have decided to drop my subscription to Science and my AAAS membership; Science is the flagship journal of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. I guess I will continue as an elected AAAS Fellow; but I am no longer proud of that distinction. I suppose, also, that any future contribution to Science even a Letter or a Technical Comment -- will not be welcome as long as McNutt or someone of her persuasion continues as editor.Has the global warming pause really ended?The pernicious influence of Editor McNutts ideology-driven science can be easily recognized in the promotion given to a fairly routine scientific paper by NOAA climatologist Thomas Karl and coauthors; however, it has very important policy implications. After making certain controversial adjustments to the surface temperature record, the authors concluded that there had been no GW pause (a.k.a. hiatus or plateau), which many researchers had rather reluctantly accepted, but that there had actually been a continuing warming trend during all of the 21st century. Their paper was published in Science-Express on June 4, with a lot of the publicity usually reserved for major discoveries.Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/07/editor_of_emscienceem_magazine_should_resign.html#ixzz3hDreMIDt Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

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Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

1] The "consensus" basically does not exist

2] If it did that would not be science . That would be a popularity contest .

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    9 years ago
Good points! What happened to the front page? It seems to have changed. Now seeds show up in the order that they were seeded and they stay in that order regardless of whether they generate comments. A seed with 50 comments including one a few seconds before can be at the bottom of the page while a seed that is two to seven hours older with 0-2 comments can be at the top. When was it decided that a new comment no longer bumps a seed? Now one must go to my home page, the topic they Seeded the article under, or the e-mail to see recent comments on an older seed. I really don't care one way or the other but the change was a surprise or I didn't get the memo.
 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

It is the new system which will be employed on the new site . I suggest you try opening up several tabs , one for each major topic you are following . This one would be under Environment/Climate .

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Merchant of meaningless political deception :

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    9 years ago
The several NIPCC reports can be accessed free of charge at www.NIPCCreport.org. IPCC reports are available at www.ipcc.de.A critique of the latest IPCC science report was issued as a Policy Brief in Oct 2013 and can be accessed at My initial reaction (of 4June) to the Karl paper in Science-Express is seen here. Independent comments from the Science blog were reprinted here. Technical papers questioning the Karl conclusions are forthcoming -- but may not published in Science; one would want to look at other scientific journals.To sum up:The GW plateau appears to be ongoing -- and is as yet unexplained. We dont know if or when it will end. Climate sensitivity of CO2 seems to be much lower than any of the IPCC models predict -- perhaps even close to zero. Thus, any policies based on GH models can be junked; fossil fuels are not the cause of climate change. So much for McNutts policy prescription that every person need [sic] to reduce carbon pollution [sic] by adopting alternative energy technologies, and capturing CO2 at the source.The two-degree limit is a political inventionThe 2deg limit has nothing to do with science -- and, in any case, is unlikely to be exceeded, or even reached, as things look now. As recounted in American Thinker, the 2deg limit was invented in Sweden as a pure guess -- without any evidence from climate models that there might be some kind of discontinuity when global temperature (however it may be calculated) reaches the 2deg level.However, the 2deg limit was widely adopted by politicians and became enshrined in folklore, when it was realized that it satisfied the Goldilocks principle -- not too little or too large, but just right for political action against CO2, fossil fuels, low-cost and secure energy -- and the economic growth all this made possible.Consider: A limit set at 0.5deg will be dismissed with Weve already seen this -- and nothing happened. A limit at, say, 5deg may elicit a different kind of response: It wont happen soon -- at least, not in my lifetime. In fact, the whole concept of a global average is very vague; GH models tell us that warming will concentrate at high latitudes at night. So, Siberian winter nights might warm from minus 40deg all the way to minus 35deg. Is that bad?Many economists have concluded that even a 3deg warming might on the whole be beneficial, even at the lower US latitudes, largely because of gains by the agricultural sector: longer growing seasons and fewer frosts, more rain, but mostly increased fertilization from higher atmospheric CO2 levels.Ice ages are the real threat to mankindThe most recent glaciation covered much of the northern hemisphere with miles-thick ice and wiped out the Neanderthalers; its sudden end about 12,000 years ago led into the present warm interglacial period, which we call the Holocene. According to the Milankovitch astronomical calculations, the next glaciation is just around the corner -- or at least a millennium or so away.But even a little ice age, like one that ended only 200 years ago, would be extremely damaging to our civilization. Crop failures worldwide would lead to famines, disease, and many deaths. The December gabfest in Paris should be concerned about near-future cooling -- not warming. And so should Editor McNutt.She should be soliciting research papers that explore adaptation to an extended cool period, and ways its harmful effects can be overcome or lessened. Time to prepare may be short.Read more: Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

Reply by XXJefferson#51

"The several NICC reports can be accessed free of charge at www.NIPCCreport.org . IPCC reports are available at www.ipcc.de.A critique of the latest IPCC science report was issued as a Policy Brief in Oct 2013 and can be accessed at "

Heartland Institute

"The discredited Heartland Institute is attempting to present its new NIPCC report, Climate Change Reconsidered , as a legitimate alternative authority to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Butthe NIPCC report is not a credible scientific undertaking, and the Heartland Institute has no credibility, scientific or otherwise ."

- ...

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Climatesciencewatch is a single purpose propaganda site .

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

Fish are birds. Birds are fish. Trees are monkeys. Monkeys are rocks.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Babble is babble . "Consensus" is not science . It's a popularity contest .

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

I've seen quite a few that have come to a different conclusion . Will you ask for a list or are you afraid to read them ?

showed none which disagreed explicitly

So they didn't agree then ...

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

Limiting the average global surface temperature increase of 2C (3.6F) over the pre-industrial average has, since the 1990s, been commonly regarded as an adequate means of avoiding dangerous climate change, in science and policy making. [13] [14]

However, recent science has shown that the weather, environmental and social impacts of 2C rise are much greater than the earlier science indicated, and that impacts for a 1C rise are now expected to be as great as those previously assumed for a 2C rise. [11] In a July 2011 speech, climate scientist Kevin Anderson explained that for this reason, avoiding dangerous climate in the conventional sense is no longer possible, because the temperature rise is already close to 1C, with effects formerly assumed for 2C. [15] [16] Moreover, Anderson's presentation demonstrates reasons why a temperature rise of 4C by 2060 is a likely outcome, given the record to date of action on climate, economic realities, and short window of time remaining for limiting the average surface temperature rise to 2C or even 3C. [15] He also states that a 4C rise would likely be an unstable state, leading to further increases in following decades regardless of mitigation measures that may be taken. [15]

The consequences of failing to avoid dangerous climate change have been explored in two recent scientific conferences: the 4 degrees and beyond climate change conference held at Oxford University in 2009; and the Four Degrees Or More? Australia in a Hot World held at the University of Melbourne in July 2011.

The author of the seeded article has some interesting baggage he's Fred Singer.

Climategate

In December 2009, after the Climatic Research Unit email controversy , Singer wrote an opinion piece for Reuters in which he said the scientists had misused peer review , pressured editors to prevent publication of alternative views, and smeared opponents.

He said the leaked e-mails showed that the "surface temperature data that IPCC relies on is based on distorted raw data and algorithms that they will not share with the science community."

He argued that the incident exposed a flawed process, and that the temperature trends were heading downwards even as greenhouse gases like CO 2 were increasing in the atmosphere . He wrote: "This negative correlation contradicts the results of the models that IPCC relies on and indicates that anthropogenic global warming (AGW) is quite small," concluding "and now it turns out that global warming might have been 'man made' after all." [77]

A British House of Commons Science and Technology Select Committee later issued a report that exonerated the scientists, [78] and eight committees investigated the allegations, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct. [79]

What is it with you righties? Your love of rogues and liars who perpetuate the myths underlying your agenda is consistent and should embarrass you.

I will be around to at least enable both sides of "the story."

And again, when a "report" turns out to be a fake, there's always an underlying agenda.

I suggest you read about Singer's other agendas.

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser    9 years ago

To continue to ignore this for political reasons is foolhardy, at best...

Grin.gif

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

What is with you lefties ? I offered to show a list of studies which don't agree with AGW . But you are clearly afraid to read it ... or are you gonna take the plunge ?

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

Show the list and list the sources and the authors and we'll go from there.

In the past, I've specifically addressed your articles remember the one that claimed the polar ice was expanding I showed the observation regarding the melting and consequential spreading like that of a melting ice cube whose footprint expands while its overall volume decreases.

Then there was the one about the polar ice getting higher. That too was the result of GCC as warmer, more intense winds PILED THE FRACTURING ICE UPON ITSELF.

But really; post the list and the source(s) and we'll have at it.

For the record, I have a degree in Biology with specialties in limnology and ichthyology; I know what climate change does to populations and ecosystems.

See you after dinner.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    9 years ago
So, are you going to go to Johns seeds and "at least enable both sides" as well or only on conservatives seeds?
 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

So, are you going to go to Johns seeds and "at least enable both sides" as well or only on conservatives seeds?

If you have a problem with John's or anyone else's content, you can go to it and mount a rebuttal. I'm not carrying your water

I don't askyouto be "fair and balanced." You fire the first shot regularly and frequently surely you can deal with others who take their shots

you can, right?

As a person of faith, you must be familiar with JOHN

JOHN 8:7 that is. You know, thatotherJohn.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    9 years ago
Another attack on Heartland. What a surprise. Not!
 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

Another attack on Heartland. What a surprise. Not!

Another attack the messenger non-rebuttal!

The "Heartland"?

Interesting as in The Heartland Institute for example.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    9 years ago
I don't feel the need to micromanage his seeds or come on all his articles and rebut them. I usually don't care what he and other progressives seed. Sometimes I go there, usually I don't. With limited time and other responsibilities, I'd rather promote my own viewpoints than attack others.
 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

"Consensus" is not science . It's a popularity contest."

How would you have people decide which of the scientists to take seriously? Surely you don't believe that we're all equally equipped to understand climate science? Having studied a lot of climate science myself, I've concluded that it is VERY, very challenging to comprehend. It takes a lot of study to get even the basics.

Are you honestly suggesting that half of one percent of those who call themselves expert in climate science are the ones who are correct about how to interpret the available scientific data?

I'm often opposed to "the consensus". But not in this case! I mean, I think much of mainstream "scientific medicine" is corrupted by the meddling influence of Big Pharma and the insurance industry (big money generally). So I'm open minded about possible corruption.

But -- at the end of the day -- I'll accept the scientific consensus from the actual climate scientists ... over the money-driven interests of the schmucks and arseholes who shill for Mega Oil, Coal & Gas.

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

"So, since there is not one definitive study of climate change, there were in fact 928 of them that all came to approximately the same conclusion.

That's not a popularity contest, Petey."

Amen.

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

They call this approach "pulling a tobacco". It was the tobacco industry which taught the rest of 'em just how to manipulate folks with this "heartland" stuff.

"You shouldn't attack "the heartland" (eveyday, regular folk in the middle of the country).... Sheesh.

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

Petey Coober :"What is with you lefties?"

Natural systems do not care what your political views are. Water boils at a certain temperature at a certain elevation without regard to your political views. Same with other natural processes. In other words, climate science has nothing whatsoever to do with your political views, or anyone else's. I wish it were not so, but there we have it.

And I wish it were not so because I'd love it if we could solve this horrible problem politically -- as it would offer a better hope for a decent future on Earth.

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

Reply by A. Macarthur :

"Limiting the average global surface temperature increase of 2C (3.6F) over the pre-industrial average has, since the 1990s, been commonly regarded as an adequate means of avoiding dangerous climate change, in science and policy making. However, recent science has shown that the weather, environmental and social impacts of 2C rise are much greater than the earlier science indicated."

Remember when the IPCC said we have X-number of units left in our "carbon budget". Well, we don't. That's what I've concluded after a long and careful look at the question. We've used up whatever carbon budget we once had, and should simply try to phase out fossil fuels as quickly as possible, knowing that -- by now -- we've already altered our planet's climate system in ways we'll surely wish we had not.

Maybe, just maybe, we can preserve the larger portion of the biodiversity on the planet -- by a miracle -- over the next century or so ... as we learn how (hopefully) to draw carbon down out of the atmosphere without creating further (and possibly worse) havoc. There may be methods to do so which are yet only vaguely imagined.

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

Sadly, unfortunately, in the USA, the climate change (or climate catastrophe) question is largely treated not as a scientific question but as a theological one (primarily) and a political one (secondarily). Millions and millions of Americans view such questions about the future of our planet in terms of "What God would want" or "What is in God's plan".

If they decide that God would like to preserve the Earth's biodiversity, well, that pretty much settles the question -- and leaves science well out of it.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

There may be methods to do so which are yet only vaguely imagined.

Yup there are ways but they don't require our efforts :

...

Massive 'carbon sinks' detected beneath world's deserts

New research suggests aquifers flowing beneath the world's deserts are hiding away large amounts of CO2. According to the new study, these "carbon sinks" may hold more carbon than all the planet's plants combined.

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

I'd like to encourage you to research and learn about the topics of your interest ... as a higher priority than the promotion of your viewpoints. Promoting viewpoints and winning arguments is not so valuable a cause as truly understanding the issues and matters at hand.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    9 years ago

And yet this is not a politics seed. Its about climate and the environment. The article was encouraging discussion and debate on a key issue saying no one should have a closed mind on a science issue.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

And yet this is not a politics seed. Its about climate and the environment. The article was encouraging discussion and debate on a key issue saying no one should have a closed mind on a science issue.

Everything you seed is ultimately "political," but aside from that, few issues have become more politicized than GCC. And the author of the seeded article has been discredited at least twice for false accusations made against those who disagree with his "science" (I posted that information in this thread). Further, the author appears to have a history of being a shill for Big Energy and Big Tobacco.

no one should have a closed mind on a science issue.

Good advice.

Take it.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    9 years ago
It is the editor of the magazine in question that needs to take that advice.
 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

It is the editor of the magazine in question that needs to take that advice

Disagree; it is the editor's accuser, the-one-with-the-documented-history-of-false-accusations who needs to not only open his mind, but to reveal his hidden agenda.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Here ya go :

The original paper has lots more references . I'm sure you can find a link here :

I showed the observation regarding the melting and consequential spreading like that of a melting ice cube whose footprint expands while its overall volume decreases.

Uh ... did you write a paper about this ? YOU SHOWED it how exactly ? <==== see that ?It's a question . Answer it !

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

climate science has nothing whatsoever to do with your political views, or anyone else's.

What makes you think climatology is a science ? Maybe in a few more decades it will be but as of now it is merely a cult .

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

We've used up whatever carbon budget we once had, and should simply try to phase out fossil fuels as quickly as possible

Nah :

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

How about responding to my replies ? They were directed to you ...

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

Petey,

I'm familiar with Soon and Ballunas' "study".

The Soon and Baliunas controversy involved the publication in 2003 of a review study written by aerospace engineer Willie Soon and astronomer Sallie Baliunas in the journal Climate Research , [1] which was quickly taken up by the G.W. Bush administration as a basis for amending the first Environmental Protection Agency Report on the Environment .

The paper was strongly criticized by numerous scientists for its methodology and for its misuse of data from previously published studies, prompting concerns about the peer review process of the paper.

The controversy resulted in the resignation of several editors of the journal and the admission by its publisher Otto Kinne that the paper should not have been published as it was.

In a Climate Research editorial pre-published on 5 August 2003, its publisher Otto Kinne expressed regrets about the resignations of von Storch, Goodess, and a third editor, Mitsuru Ando. Kinne described the main conclusions of the Soon and Baliunas paper; that the late 20th century was probably not the warmest period nor uniquely extreme in the last 2,000 years, and most of the proxy records had warmer anomalies at earlier times. He wrote

"While these statements may be true, the critics point out that they cannot be concluded convincingly from the evidence provided in the paper. CR should have requested appropriate revisions of the manuscript prior to publication." [38]

Kinne told the New York Times that "I have not stood behind the paper by Soon and Baliunas. Indeed: the reviewers failed to detect methodological flaws." [39]

How 'bout that! I used YOUR LINK which you should have read down to the bottom as I did and quoted!

" the paper should not have been published as it was."

RE: Uh ... did you write a paper about this ? YOU SHOWED it how exactly ? <==== see that ?It's a question . Answer it !

No, like you, I showed studies the difference being that the studies I showed were not flawed like those you show.

Don't grandstand, Dude!

NEXT!

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Discredited where ? By whom ? You can't deal with it nor the Soon & Baliunas meta-paper . You are incapable of reading or understanding a real science journal . But feel free to prove me wrong . Read the Soon & Baliunas paper if you dare ...

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Thanks for showing your ignorance on the subject of science so openly . Do you have any idea what makes something a science [as opposed to just a study] ? Ball in your court ...

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

Discredited where ? By whom ?

By its publisher, Otto Kinne if I'm not mistaken. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

So , read the Soon & Baliunas paper and give us a report . But of course you won't . You'd rather throw out personal accusations , in other words the actions of a typical blockhead ...

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

I'm familiar with Soon and Ballunas' "study".

Nah . You have never read it or even looked at it . What you have read is political hit pieces on it . Since it is a meta-paper it merely summarizes the works of other scientists , works you are afraid to even look at . How do I know ? We have done this dance B4 . You didn't read it then and you won't read it now . Do you want a link ?

the difference being that the studies I showed were not flawed like those you show.

Uh OK . How was it flawed ? Explain it to us ... in your own words , not with massive cut/paste jobs .

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

It just hit me the Kangaroo

Nah . You have never read it or even looked at it .

Petey's KANGAROO COURT!

How was it flawed ?

ITS PUBLISHER EXPLAINED THAT. IF YOU'D BOTHER TO READ WHAT I CUT AND PASTE TO EDUCATE YOU, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO ASK!

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Mac's sarcasm posing as knowledge ! Mockery combined with ignorance ... I think the word for that would be "lout" .

ITS PUBLISHER EXPLAINED THAT.

Have you ever read any of the papers in the meta-study ? Nah . And you won't because you are strictly political , not at all scientific

I guess here is as good as any place to put this. "Chickenshit" and "Blockhead" isn't going to get it. Keep the name calling from everyone out of the conversation, please. "Six"

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Can't you read English ? That's a press release , not the paper , DUH!

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Thanks for proving you don't understand my question . Prove that climatology is currently a science rather than merely a study . Just because universities grant degrees in it does not mean it is a science , anymore than a degree in English literature is a science .

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

I can send you a copy of the paper in PDF form but why bother ? You don't read links of any kind due to the blockhead creed against that .

PS : you are fooling someone ; yourself ...

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

And, as per the established protocol, we have come to the name-calling phase of the discussion.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

Just because universities grant degrees in it does not mean it is a science ,

DidWillie Soon and Sallie Baliunas have degrees granted upon them?

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

ITS PUBLISHER EXPLAINED THAT.

So repeat what he said . The press release I posted gave a good description of the paper . Was there anything in the press release which was contradicted by the publisher's words ? If not it's just more politics .

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Yeah , thanks for the kangaroo comment insulting my avatar . Your avatar is nothing to gloat about ... And you still are AFRAID to read any of the papers in the meta-study . Pure chickenshit is what comes out of you !

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

I don't respond to blockheads ... That's because they don't read in general . By contrast Mac is a chickenshit who won't read due to fear he might learn something .

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

I can send you a copy of the paper in PDF form

You read how many pages of this PDF but object to a cut and pasted set of paragraphs?

Would you coddle our lazy asses and summarize the thing?

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

I don't respond to blockheads ... That's because they don't read in general . By contrast Mac is a chickenshit who won't read due to fear he might learn something .

Moderators, please DO NOT DELETE PETEY'S COMMENT.

It defines him.

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser    9 years ago

By definition, climatology is a science.

747_discussions.jpg

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

The press report linked above is an excellent summary . But I will add this much . It lists a great many papers by other authors on the subject of climate . Many of them did not support the global warming hypothesis . If I post a list of them will you read them or will you chicken out ? That is your consistent MO . You won't read anything that contradicts your existing beliefs . However if you agree to look them up I will agree to post a list here . And I will expect to hear your "educated" commentary on them [if you can put down the politics for once] .

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Thanks . I think my comment just defined you . Your fear of learning something that contradicts your existing beliefs is quite prominent !

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

I would love to reclassify you but I still haven't seen you read someone else's links . Is it that much work ... or are you innumerate ?

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

Your fear of learning something that contradicts your existing beliefs is quite prominent !

BTW, I can't recall what your educational background includes; please disclose degrees and other relevant information since I like to know the deal about people who talk down to me.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Yup completely innumerate . That's what I thought .

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    9 years ago
Can't we all just get along?
 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Frankly , I have no interest in displaying bragging rights from my degree . Knowledge really is power all by itself . The fact that you [and many on this site ] are largely innumerate is fine but when you pretend to know what you are talking about while you haven't a clue , that is just false pride . That's when you deserve to be taken down a notch . So ... are you interested in reading some numerically based journal articles or do you want to persist in your past beliefs ? I'm gonna guess you have no interest in real scholarship of that demanding a nature especially if it contradicts your existing beliefs .

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    9 years ago

Frankly , I have no interest in displaying bragging rights from my degree . Knowledge really is power all by itself . The fact that you [and many on this site ] are largely innumerate is fine but when you pretend to know what you are talking about while you haven't a clue , that is just false pride .

I am sad for you, Petey.

Strut if you must and have the last word if you choose to do so.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Pose if you must . I think it's pathetic . Be proud of your ignorance but can you do it a little less loudly ?

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser    9 years ago

Look at the article you seeded. No, really LOOK at it. It is another one of your "I hate liberals" articles, designed to engender-- not discussion, but disgust. The only point of publishing this article is to make yourself feel superior, over all the other little people who just may disagree with you. The other hateful piece is this:

Then you get upset when people who are a little to the left of Attila the Hun are upset with it? You reap what you sow.

I say the same thing, XX-- can't we all just get along? But then, you come up with this utterly false piece of putrified garbage and put it on the front page. Don't be coy and don't play stupid. You want to get along? Stop publishing hate pieces like this.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

then, you come up with this utterly false piece of putrified garbage and put it on the front page.

Your devotion to the cult of AGW is noted . I notice you too have no interest in reading journal articles which show disagreement ...

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser    9 years ago

I have read them, Petey, your own links-- and laughed at them. Once you suggested that I look at the base data from which they are deriving their numbers. Considering that there are 89,000 stations with 50+ to 100+ years of data, collected 6X per day, and that there are currently 4 super-computers crunching those numbers, I think it's beyond just me.

I studied climate in college, too. Yes, that was a long time ago, but the basics haven't changed. I'm not a number person-- I'm a geologist. But, I used calculus in my work, almost every day.

Do you work for the oil industry or something? I'm asking only to try to understand your viewpoint. The preponderance of evidence shows that Global Warming is real. Why can you not accept that? Why do you continually obfuscate the issue that is scientifically accepted?

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

No I don't work for the oil industry . I have said it B4 and I see that I need to repeat it : climatology is not science ! Don't give me a dictionary definition again . Lexicographers don't know science .

Can you tell me the difference between a science and a study ? If you can do that then we have something to talk about ...

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser    9 years ago

I found this, which expresses it better than I could:

However, despite their similar names, Environmental STUDIES and Environmental SCIENCES, they are fundamentally different majors reflected in their curriculum, focus, and the pathway you choose to tap your strengths and interests toward the environmental challenges of the future.

Environmental Sciencesis a stand-alone major that draws on fundamental scientific knowledge in mathematics, chemistry, physics, and biology coupled with specialization in a particular area of science to provide advanced scientific and quantitative understanding of contemporary environmental challenges.

Environmental Studiesis a major (that must be part of a double major) that provides a broadly integrated understanding to the social, political, and historical facets of our environmental challenges with focus on policy, law, and sociality aspect of these challenges.

For example, imagine an oil spill in a lake that was caused by an equipment malfunction.

In this case, an Environmental Sciences major might examine this situation by asking questions such as:

  • How much oil was spilled?
  • Where will this oil go, and how will it quantitatively affect chemical, physical, and biological environmental systems?
  • What is the environmental risk of this oil spill to humans, animals, and habitats and how can we assess it?
  • What will be the long-term outcome of this spill on environmental systems, and how can we prevent this from happening in the future from a scientific standpoint?

Conversely, an Environmental Studies major might examine this situation by asking questions such as:

  • What are the economic and social impacts of this oil spill?
  • What policies, laws, and regulations are in place that were/were not followed in this situation? If there arent any policies, regulations, or laws in place, how can I work with my local government to improve this situation?
  • How can I educate my community about this oil spill and its effects on the environment?
  • How can my community prevent this from happening again? And if not, how can they prepare?

I see an environmental study to be a more localized scientific query. I practiced a science-- geology. I conducted studies on specific well fields within a more localized area, or studied a single spill. It seems to be a bit gray, on things, because they overlap. If I didn't understand the science, I could not have completed the studies... My reports dealt with both the science and the study, and included both sets of questions. My primary focus was-- How do we clean this up?

Climate is a study, but climatology is a science.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

I am going for a different approach than you took . What I'm getting at is that a science is about being able to predict events given the initial conditions . Usually that kind of knowledge is obtained by performing controlled experiments . Clearly that is not possible in climatology .

From my perspective a subject is a study in its early stages and only becomes a science later after there is sufficient knowledge gathered . For example chemistry became a science after its "apprenticeship" of alchemy . I think climatology is still in the stage alchemy was in before it became scientific . And the reason I say that is that it is a complete failure at making predictions . If a study depends on a consensus rather than experimental results it is still a study ... not yet science .

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

Nobody here should take Petey as a genuine, sincere person. Just look at the record of his participation in these fora!

He pretends to care about science, but he thinks he's better informed than 99.5% of the actual climatologists, even to the extent of pretending that climatology "isn't a science"! This, ladies and gentlemen, is one big useless distraction.

I think Petey is really only a character played by somebody, and the character is really a caricature, a spoof ....

...

synonyms: cartoon , parody , satire , lampoon , burlesque ;
 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

Here's another buffoon who doubts climatology is a science.:

"

Is Climatology a Science?

By Robert Tracinski

I was very surprised to wake up a few days ago to discover three inches of snow on the ground -- in Virginia, in April, while our lilacs were blooming .

Must be that global warming.

It was a perfect concretization of a wisecrack that's been going around for years: we're supposed to believe that climatologists can predict the weather for the whole globe a century from now -- when they still can't predict the local weather for tomorrow."

If this guy is SERIOUS (!) he's way, way too ignorant to have half of a clue about his own ignorance! Sheesh! Is this the level of the game -- the utterly ignorant arguing with the utterly ignorant?

Is any honest person going to pretend to know about climate science (or climatology) and be completely bereft of the slightest clue about what distinguishes climate and weather? REALLY?!

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

" Even for those who reject the conclusions of the 97 percent of climate scientists who hold humans to be responsible ... , dumping billions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere is, at the very least, extremely risky. These gases are known, not hypothesized, to heat the atmosphere . Yes, as the climate deniers argue, nobody knows exactly how climate change will play out. There is no mathematical model that can fully represent how Earth will respond to the additional billions of tons of greenhouse gases burnt into the atmosphere. But that's why anthropogenic climate change is so scary. Why mess with such a delicate, complex system as our climate? Humanity and human civilization evolved to function in a pre-industrial climate with far lower greenhouse-gas levels. This kind of denialism is playing Russian roulette with our entire civilization."

...

That author said, " This kind of denialism is playing Russian roulette with our entire civilization."

Oh, if only we were so lucky! It's far, far worse than that!

In terms of what is at stake, it's much worse! Civilizations have come and gone, but the human species has remained. Having not gone extinct in the process, humans have had a chance to try again, evolve and grow some more..., wise up. But if humanity messes up the climate system enough, it is sure our species -- and most others -- may will become forever extinct from this planet. This is the part that seldom gets mentioned! Worst case scenarios for climate change are very plausible, indeed. And these consequences involve a massive extinction event, not a mere inconvenience like massive disruption of human civilization.

Russian roulette? A six shooter has sixcylinders. Take all of the shells out of those cylinders but one, spin the cylinder, pull the trigger ... if the odds are random you've got a 1 in 6 chance of blowing your brains out. Climate science, on the other hand, is much more predictive than that. We know if we stay on course and burn fossil fuels at a rate anything vaguely resembling the current trend that we will create utter and terrible -- catastrophic -- levels of average (global) warming of the atmosphere. And ecologists now know that doing so will cause a spasm of massive extinction events planet-wide, and could (at the worst) extinguish most of the life forms which now inhabit Earth.

 
 
 
J Martin
Freshman Silent
link   J Martin    9 years ago

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    9 years ago
And you revived this seed because?
 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

Climatology is not science . It is a political movement designed to get funding for more climatology .

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    9 years ago

BTW , the least convincing evidence is a personal attack rather than an argument directed at the subject matter . In that respect you are becoming both predictable and pathetic . The important thing is to cover up your deep ignorance about science with personal attacks . Are readers being fooled by your shenanigans ? I doubt it .

 
 

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