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The LHC versus Einstein

  

Category:  Health, Science & Technology

Via:  petey-coober  •  13 years ago  •  11 comments

The LHC versus Einstein

It is only human nature . The Europeans have got their new expensive toy [the Large Hadron Collider] and now they want to make waves with their discoveries . Combine that with some overly passionate Italian scientists and you get some young , still wet behind the ears , physicists trying to make a name for themselves by gunning for Dr. Einstein's theories on relativity . That's all well and good . After all that's what science is about , challenging the old order and exploring for better explanations of the universe .

If you don't know what I'm referring to allow me to refresh your memory . Recently the media announced that a team of Italian scientists [OPERA] had demonstrated that neutrino particles could travel faster than the speed of light . That is supposed to be impossible according to Einstein's theory of relativity .
But the problem is these OPERA youngsters are in too much of a hurry . Their ambition to make a name for themselves trumps both their understanding of relativity and their experimental methods . Their 1st attempt to produce what was supposed to be the startling discovery that neutrinos [very tiny particles] can travel faster than light was quickly debunked as having some serious lack of understanding of the finer points of Einstein's theories .

Here are 2 articles that apparently have explained away the time differences supposedly
detected by this OPERA team . One of them employs the comparatively simple
special theory of relativity . The other uses an explanation from general relativity .
There are very few who understand general relativity well enough to offer a
competent explanation one way or the other including the OPERA team .

from Ronald van Elburg :
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27260/?ref=rss

from Carlo Contaldi :
http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/faster-than-light-neutrino-einstein-2083/

It is beginning to look like this OPERA team is only out to make a reputation for
themselves by disproving the most important single physics theory in recent history .
If they blow it again they are going to make themselves a very bad reputation in
the science community . From my POV they are suffering from "premature theory spurting" and they should get that condition checked out ...

The above were the popularized explanations . For the more technically inclined here are a couple more explorations of some of the possible methodological errors that this team committed . This one claims that there are potential problems due to the cross section of the received energy beam .
A simple explanation of OPERA results without strange physics
Gilles Henri
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.0239v1.pdf

The following one indicates that there may be variations in those ultra-precise measurements depending on the time of year that they were taken :
Are OPERA neutrinos faster than light because of non-inertial reference frames?
Claudio German`a
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1201.4147v1.pdf

In summary I don't think we can count out the most brilliant physicist of the last century quite yet .

======== ============

Addendum :

Never mind the above links . It appears there were some problems with the connections to their GPS system .
See the latest breaking news at :

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/researchers-find-flaw-faster-light-clocks-15768382#.T0YQj3rTRko

And here :
http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/02/faster-than-light-neutrino-measurement-has-two-possible-errors.html


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Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   seeder  Petey Coober    13 years ago

I have to apologize for my 1st version of this article . I skipped some important background info that was essential for those not up to date on this topic . I hope that my rewrite is clearer . If not please let me know in the comments .

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
link   Larry Hampton    13 years ago

Not done reading the links yet but am struck by how important this is. They had problems with having to reconstruct part of this instrument (I've been watching since the start---so veryinteresting) and there is MUCH hype surrounding it. Do you think that part their"premature theory spurting" could be a result of this hype and public micro-examination?

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   seeder  Petey Coober    13 years ago

IMO it is the other way around . Rather than avoiding the public spotlight while they rechecked their approach and results they instead sought out media attention . It seems to me that this team lacks the restraint which characterizes good science .

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Expert
link   Perrie Halpern R.A.    13 years ago

Well, I am going to have to read the links tomorrow, when I still have a brain left. When my computer died, it took the articles that I had done some research on after we had our little discussion about this. I have to see if I can get them back, too!

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   seeder  Petey Coober    13 years ago

Take your time .

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   seeder  Petey Coober    13 years ago

Never mind the links . Here is the latest news from Italy :

BREAKING NEWS: Error Undoes Faster-Than-Light Neutrino Results

...

It appears that the faster-than-light neutrino results, announced last September by the OPERA collaboration in Italy, was due to a mistake after all. A bad connection between a GPS unit and a computer may be to blame.

According to sources familiar with the experiment, the 60 nanoseconds discrepancy appears to come from a bad connection between a fiber optic cable that connects to the GPS receiver used to correct the timing of the neutrinos' flight and an electronic card in a computer.



Researchers have found a flaw in the technical setup of an experiment that startled the science world last year by appearing to show particles traveling faster than light.

The problem may have affected measurements that clocked subatomic neutrino particles breaking what Nobel Prize-winning physicist Albert Einstein considered the ultimate speed barrier.

Two separate issues were identified with the GPS system that was used to time the arrival of neutrinos at an underground lab in Italy, James Gillies, spokesman for the European Organization for Nuclear Research, or CERN, said Wednesday.

One could have caused the speed to be overestimated, the other could have caused it to be underestimated, he said.

"The bottom line is that we will not know until more measurements are done later this year," Gillies told The Associated Press.


 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
link   Larry Hampton    13 years ago

Ok this is bad in a coupla ways right-off the bat.

1st:

(and for the first time I can actually ever remember blogging "professionally" speaking as a Lab tech), there is absolutely no excuse for realesing faulty data due to technical problems.

None.Modern technology has provided completely thorough QC in thelaboratorysetting and any lab would have completely secure, accurate, and precise data beforereleasedfor use. The fact that it was released into use in the theory represents a pure breach of the scientific method. The fact that it was released into this huge of a public andscientificforum speaks volumes to their motive.

2nd:

These types of "mistakes" occur when observations andconclusionsare not based on factual proof but to meet ideological and/orpoliticalassertions.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
link   Larry Hampton    13 years ago

Oh and third and most importantly...

Because this really is frickin'important!

These studies are important and it highly surprises and irks me that the information thus far is seemingly compromised and divested for political ussage of some kind.

Jeesh dudes!

The world deserves some truth about our species accumulated knowledge!

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   seeder  Petey Coober    13 years ago

Larry ,

It may be politically motivated but my suspicions are more focused on them being overly ambitious [as I said in my article] . They are in too much of a rush to make a big splash in science .
As to the technical errors : I also don't think they have any excuse . Even if there is nothing to take a comparison test on they should have gotten several readings and looked for variation in the numbers .

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Expert
link   Perrie Halpern R.A.    13 years ago

OK Larry... what am I missing?

Why do you think that there is political reasons for this misinformation. All I see is bad science.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
link   Larry Hampton    13 years ago

I should have been more specific. I meant like politics at work; people manipulating to get ahead. And also I think that it speaks to their ideology. There ambition is more important than quality work, and makes me question the world-view that drives their ambition. Considering the high expectation and scrutiny, I also question theirintelligenceat themanagementlevel.

 
 

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