Audi is making fuel from air and water
Audi has begun production of a synthetic diesel fuel made from water, carbon dioxide, and hydrogen. Unlike fossil fuels, which release additional carbon into the atmosphere, Audis e-diesel, which is being produced at a plant in Dresden in conjunction with the German alternative energy company Sunfire, has a net-zero carbon footprint because it is made with carbon dioxide taken from the air.
Its not the first carbon-neutral fuel , but its being hailed by the German government, which provided support for the plant, as an important milestone in the movement for cleaner energy.
If we can make widespread use of CO2 as a raw material, we will make a crucial contribution to climate protection and the efficient use of resources, and put the fundamentals of the green economy in place, Johanna Wanka, Germanys minister of education and research, said in an Audi news release announcing the production of the initial batch of e-diesel. (The first five liters went intoWankasofficial car, an Audi A83.0TDIcleandieselquattro.)
Heres a diagram released by Audi showing the steps of the fuel production process:
Though the prospect of cars being powered by air and water is exciting, it remains little more than a prospect for now. The Dresden plant will produce a mere 3,000 liters (794 gallons) of the carbon-neutral fuel over the next few monthsa tiny drop in a huge ocean.
The challenge for Audi will be ramping up its fuel from a science project to a commercial success. It seems to have ambitions to do so: it has been pursuing carbon-neutral fuels since 2009, and its partnership with Sunfire is just one of several collaborations with energy companies.
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Great news Feronia.Thanks for posting this!!
It will probably have the same energy density of corn derived diesel.
And, will suffer from the same economies of scale that corn derived diesel does with the added expense of electrolysis added into it.
Need I remind anyone why direct electrolysis of H2 does not work for common fuel purposes?
You cannot crack sufficient amounts of H2 fast enough to power an ICE. The amounts of electrical energy needed defeats any savings from the efficiency. Which also means you cannot create a portable H2 generating station. At least not with today's technology.
Interesting idea though, but not economically viable.
Electric is the best way to go with the automobile. The only limitation there is engineering, and those issues are rapidly being solved.
That is the same thing they claimed they were shooting for with Corn Diesel, but it actually came out a lot more than that.
So yeah I'm calling bullshite on their cost guestimation. (and that is an opinion BTW, but one based upon fact) Corn diesel failed cause it wasn't profitable, besides, you can't grow enough corn fast enough to supply the mass of ICE's on the planet, this will result in the same failure.
You can't crack enough H2 fast enough to supply the demand. If you could, it's easy to modify any ICE to burn H2 and as a result of burning H2 the exhaust is H2O. The problem is you can't supply enough to make it viable commercially.
All of this stuff has benefits from the scientific aspect, but to change the fuel usage of the world? you have to make it economically viable. (ie make it profitable or make it cheaper)
This doesn't fit the bill.
Yes they are synthesizing hydrocarbons, and no it won't actually be cheaper. And no, It won't be safer.
Carbon Monoxide is produced from the incomplete combustion of hydrocarbons, natural or man made.
I don't see how they get around that. And in reading through their process, combining CO2 and H2 gives them COH2 (blue crude) and H2O by splitting an oxygen atom from CO2 combining it with some of the H2 atoms to form water and a residue compound of Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen, which they can refine.
The basic chemistry of combustion.
What happens to the CO when oxidation process releases the H2?
Just like Carbon Dioxide is non-flamable, so is Carbon Monoxide. So where does it go?
They are taking Carbon DIOXIDE out of the air, which is non-poisonous to human life and adding Carbon MONOXIDE to the air, which is poisonous to human life.
Wonderful reasoning there.
They are not talking about interchangeable atoms or molecules here, they are talking about chemical compounds. Which are a whole different ball of wax being as they are not directly interchangeable....
I mean basic science here, I mean high school level...
We don't raise the carbon level in the atmosphere, just change it from something debatably hazardous to human life to something that IS hazardous to human life...
Ok I guess if your good with that it's no problem that I should be.
It's only our great grandchildren who will have to deal with it.
Nope, I've not seen it before! This would be wonderful!
I think that this is really cool. The carbon monoxide thing is unclear, but it does seem like a viable solution. Sometimes you only find out after you try.
Everyone told the Wright brothers they would never fly.
You breath it every day.
Without it there would be no life on earth.
Perrie, I think that is an analogy that misses the mark.
chemists are capable as you know of manipulating and reproducing most of the inert compounds found on the earth at this point. Synthesizing hydrocarbons is nothing new. In fact that is exactly what they do creating diesel from corn. They CAN do it. so will it work is not at issue. And trying until they get it right is not applicable to this.
This is more analogous to Edison trying various filaments until he found the one that did work. (only for commercial interests to downgrade the filaments to less capable ones for profit reasons)
They can make any fuel they want, the issue is cost effectiveness, which in their lab also has a profitability motive. Right now it costs around .35 cents to make a gallon of gas, the rest you pay at the pump is the costs of distribution and taxes.
It costs them .75 cents to make a gallon of diesel from corn, before expenses and taxes.
This is costing 1.35 dollars per liter. 1 gallon = 3.78 liters, before taxes.
You do the math...
This article is from over a year ago....
The Navy has researched and developed a way to make jet fuel from seawater. All of our fixed wing carriers are nuclear powered and have the energy to make the conversion of seawater into fuel. Most if not all of the escort ships today are turbine powered and would use the jet fuel as well. With this capacity, a carrier battlegroup would reduce the need for an ocean going tanking system to keep the on the move and in the air. (more cost savings)
Of course congress denied funding for additional research once the oil company lobbyists got to work.
...
I remember when they were modernizing the fleet for the oncoming use of jet aircraft. That's one that mystified me and still does today. The Oil companies would rather have the aircraft carriers completely redesigned to install JP-4 tanks in them rather than have cracking plants installed to provide fuel for the jets.
Now think of it. you have this huge ship with immense tanks for 120 octane Av Gas and oil bunkers that measured their contents by the thousands of tons. Wouldn't it be easier, simpler and cheaper to just install a holding tank and install a mixing and cracking plant to produce their own JP-4 from the bunker oil and AV Gas? Of course it would. No major re0design of the ships fueling system, no major re-design of fuel delivery across the entire fleet, no major redesign of naval port refueling facilities.
But it took seven times for the appropriations to do it to get thru congress. Why? The oil companies wanted all that money from the redesign and rebuilding of all the facilities.
They did have a hard time explaining themselves from the aspect of taking the fleet down for the extended period of time to actually do what they wanted essentially leaving the country without an effective navy.
But still, it took seven times.
When corporations have a cash cow, they are loath to let it go and will do everything they can to bilk as much out of their system as they can and to hell with efficiency and savings. And at the time, the US Navy WAS a cash cow as far as the oil companies were concerned.
It sickens me sometimes...
Didn't think I needed to address it cause it was addressed in the link I provided, that's what I get for assuming things about others.......
Alright, Mixture concentration is the issue huh? obviously you didn't read the link I posted. How do I know that? you missed the point entirely.
Concentration in the atmosphere is irrelevant as far as CO2 goes. Without it in the atmosphere, ALL PLANT LIFE DIES. No plants, no food chain, no food chain, no animals, no animals, no humans...
No CO2 in the atmosphere, you might as well as take a couple of long deep breaths of that CO2 bottle, cause you will be dead in a matter of weeks anyways no matter how much oxygen is in the atmosphere.
Now CO, you know that noxious gas the comes from the exhaust pipes of cars, is a chemical that plants can't use either. Because it is TOXIC to all forms of life in any concentration.
So lets take the CO2 out of the atmosphere and replace it with CO. the plants die off and we die off. Same result.
Get the picture?
History repeated itself it looks like.
The nuke boats can make JP-5 from seawater, and could potentially keep the rest of the turbine driven escort ships supplied as well. I have no idea of the capacity, but it has a shot of eliminating one of the Achilles heels of a CVBG engaged in combat operations.
The other two are weapons and repair parts. The Russians knew as we did that in the event of an engagement, destroying the supply ships is a quick way of putting a battlegroup on the sidelines.
Got to protect those shareholders you know.... Best to get a bunch of congressmen to help with that.
There could be a song & dance if the wind is not blowing when you want the charge .
You should also point out that plants do quite well using up CO . It is only the animal kingdom which suffers from CO poisoning ...
It's something in the HTML of the posting that is not allowing it to appear. I can't get into it to fix it. I don't have the access.
Roberts posting at the bottom of the page has the same problem.
Mine was fine the day I posted it. but I understand Ning has been having some problems lately. amongst which is a whole exchange between me and Fly on Bruce's Crocket build article have disappeared completely. Including some pics of my workshop that I uploaded.
Ning has been doing some funny stuff lately...
Robert, you missed my point. Completely in fact.
I'll leave you to figure out how..
Yeah, but to this thought I will say elevate the mind and the brain will follow.
{A place Beavis and his brother would never dare tread}
No secret.
No point in going further either.
The only pressure is that which you place on it. 14.7psi is enough for me.
Just imagine what effect improved batteries would have on this technology :
The US has gone big on ethanol for many many years :