Get rid of capitalism? Millennials are ready to talk about it
One of the hottest tickets in New York City this weekend was a discussion on whether to overthrow capitalism.
The first run of tickets to “Capitalism: A Debate” sold out in a day. So the organizers, a pair of magazines with clear ideological affiliations, socialist Jacobin and libertarian Reason, found a larger venue: Cooper Union’s 960-capacity Great Hall, the site of an 1860 antislavery speech by Abraham Lincoln. The event sold out once again, this time in eight hours .
The crowd waiting in a long line to get inside on Friday night was mostly young and mostly male. Asher Kaplan and Gabriel Gutierrez, both 24, hoped the event would be a real-life version of the humorous, anarchic political debates on social media. “So much of this stuff is a battle that’s waged online,” said Gutierrez, who identifies, along with Kaplan, as a “leftist,” if not quite a socialist.
These days, among young people, socialism is “both a political identity and a culture,” Kaplan said. And it looks increasingly attractive.
Young Americans have soured on capitalism. In a Harvard University poll conducted last year, 51 percent of 18-to-29 year-olds in the U.S. said they opposed capitalism; only 42 percent expressed support. Among Americans of all ages, by contrast, a Gallup survey last year found that 60 percent held positive views of capitalism.
A poll released last month found American millennials closely split on the question of what type of society they would prefer to live in: 44 percent picked a socialist country, 42 percent a capitalist one. The poll, conducted by YouGov and the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, found that 59 percent of Americans across all age groups preferred to live under capitalism.
“I’ve seen the failings of modern-day capitalism,” said Grayson SussmanSquires, an 18-year-old student at Wesleyan University who had turned up for the capitalism debate. To him and many of his peers, he said, the notion of well-functioning capitalist order is something recounted only by older people. He was 10 when the financial crisis hit, old to enough to watch his older siblings struggle to get jobs out of college. In high school, SussmanSquires said, he volunteered for the presidential campaign of Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, a self-described socialist. “It spoke to me in a way nothing had before,” he said.
Although debate attendees leaned left, several expressed the desire to have their views challenged by the pro-capitalist side. “It’s very easy to exist in a social group where everyone has the same political vibe,” Kaplan said.
“I’m immersed in one side of the debate,” said Thomas Doscher, 26, a labor organizer who is studying for his LSATs. “I want to hear the other side.”
The debate pitted two socialist stalwarts, Jacobin founder Bhaskar Sunkara and New York University professor Vivek Chibber, against the defenders of capitalism, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Reason’s editor in chief, and Nick Gillespie, the editor in chief of Reason.com and Reason TV.
And it was the attempt to rebuff criticism of capitalism that mostly riled up the crowd.
Chibber argued that the problem with capitalism is the power it has over workers. With the weakening of U.S. labor unions, “we have a complete despotism of the employers,” he said, leading to stagnant wages. When Mangu-Ward countered that Americans aren’t coerced on the job, the crowd erupted in laughter. “Every morning you wake up and you have a decision about whether or not you’re going to go to work,” she insisted, and the audience laughed again.
Sunkara summed up his argument for socialism as a society that helped people tackle the necessities of life—food, housing, education, health care, childcare. “Wherever we end up, it won’t be a utopia,” he said. “It will still be a place where you might get your heart broken,” or feel lonely, or get indigestion.
Mangu-Ward replied: “Capitalism kind of [fixes] those things, actually.” There’s the app Tinder to find dates, and Pepto Bismol to cure your upset stomach. “Those are the gifts of capitalism,” she said.
The arguments stayed mostly abstract. Sunkara and Chibber insisted their idea of democratic socialism shouldn’t be confused with the communist dictatorships that killed millions of people in the 20th century. Mangu-Ward and Gillespie likewise insisted on defending a capitalist ideal, not the current, corrupt reality. “Neither Nick nor I are fans of big business,” she said. “We’re not fans of crony capitalism.”
Talking theory left little time to wrestle with concrete problems, such as inequality or climate change. That frustrated Nathaniel Granor, a 31-year-old from Brooklyn who said he was worried about millions of people being put out of work by automation such as driverless vehicles.
“It didn't touch on what I feel is the heart of the matter,” Granor said. Both capitalism and socialism might ideally be ways to improve the world, he concluded, but both can fall short when applied in the real world.
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Chibber argued that the problem with capitalism is the power it has over workers. With the weakening of U.S. labor unions, “we have a complete despotism of the employers,” he said, leading to stagnant wages.
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Talking theory left little time to wrestle with concrete problems, such as inequality or climate change. That frustrated Nathaniel Granor, a 31-year-old from Brooklyn who said he was worried about millions of people being put out of work by automation such as driverless vehicles.
I, for one, am glad to see that they are taking the future seriously. There are logical conclusions that can be drawn from looking at the arc of technology and economics.
This is what handing out participation trophies/ribbons for everything will get you.
It is a moral issue. Capitalism is abused.
The working poor are thrown just enough crumbs ("entitlements") to keep them from rioting in the street and fomenting revolution.
Capitalism is a tool, like a hammer is a tool. It is neither good nor bad, intrinsically... like that hammer. And like that hammer, capitalism can build stuff... or kill people.
The purpose of capitalism is to maximize shareholder dividends. END OF STORY. There is nothing else. A "good manager" will do anything... anything at all... to maximize shareholder dividends. There's no question of legality or morality.
When a corporation is caught dumping toxic waste... the only surprise is that anyone is surprised. Penalties for dumping are peanuts next to the economies, so of course dumping is the "right" thing for a "good manager".
When a smart worker is using a tool that she knows can be dangerous, she takes care... she follows "safety rules". She doesn't let the tool do whatever it wishes.
Duh.
Wouldn't selling tickets kind of go against what they are wanting to do?
There is a certain fact that one cannot deny......There will always be the poor!
We all can't have that special something that give us the ability to rise above one's circumstances.....circumstances, perhaps, since birth. Sometimes, it is a learned brain set. Living in poor conditions, going to school without proper clothes or lunch money, being teased about your shoes and no one caring at home whether you make good grades or not. No one to give you guidance out of the lifestyle that surrounds you everyday of your life.
When it comes to formal education it should not be given to you. If you want it, then, work for it.
It Is almost impossible for a single man or woman to make it in life on a minimum wage income. Housing, power, transportation, food chew it to pieces. Healthcare? Are you kidding? That is a luxury. Dental care? A luxury. Entertainment? A luxury unless you like looking at clouds rolling by. Two jobs? Not unless one of your employers are willing to work with you on scheduling.
IMO, there is nothing out of the way with capitalism. It is the manner in which it is applied.
I got mine ....tuff chit on you ain't gonna make a better Country!
mental masturbation at best... a fun chat to have over a beer, but there is zero chance of implementation.
on even your best socialist or communist day.... simply not going to happen my friends, no way, no how.
but just for fun... tell me how this will happen without people being shot for treason, jailed, left dead in the street?
however it is done... better be ready to flip not just one federal govt... but 51 govts.
if push came to shove most states will never agree to any other system and will simply leave the union
Article is very misleading.
Capitalism is dead. Murdered by Reagan and Supply Side Economics.
You can not get rid of that which no longer exists.
dead? not so much. blue collar with some college, self employed my whole life, and now retired well enough.
the question I have always wondered is why do people who claim to be so smart have a problem getting ahead with capitalism??
I retired early and am not even all that bright... so why can't these so-called intelligent liberals do what I did or even better?
Answer: they have been convinced they will fail .... so they are stuck living that failure.
I feel sorry for millennials, what we have done to them is like some weird sadistic social experiment. we should repeal the no child left behind act ASAP and start giving kids a depth of education again instead of just glancing over the surface of things and teaching them only the answers to the upcoming test.
LOL... I hear ya
I think that is one key bit to the capitalist puzzle the youngsters struggle in understanding.
working 80-100 hrs a week is a foreign concept to some but I reckoned if I wanted twice as much it was as simple as working twice as much. basically, my strategy was work 8 hrs a day to pay the monthly bills and 8 hrs a day to pay for my retirement.
the youngsters today want to be the first generation in history to serve fries at McDonalds for 8hrs a day and be able to buy a house and a car... ha, those crazy kids crack me up