When Unpaid Student Loan Bills Mean You Can No Longer Work
Few people realize that the loans they take out to pay for their education could eventually derail their careers. But in 19 states, government agencies can seize state-issued professional licenses from residents who default on their educational debts. Another state, South Dakota, suspends driver’s licenses, making it nearly impossible for people to get to work.
Firefighters, nurses, teachers, lawyers, massage therapists, barbers, psychologists and real estate brokers have all had their credentials suspended or revoked.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/business/student-loans-licenses.html
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All they have to do is make arrangements to pay their student loans. I am sure they wouldn't miss a car payment or a credit card payment!
Now, you stop making sense right now before you hurt someone's FEELINGS!
Sure they do.
And, there are alternatives when they don't pay them. Just like the alternative when one fails to pay on their student loans.
Of course there are. You said they wouldn't miss them. They do.
Just imagine how many people have to default for it to get to this level. Looks like taking personal and fiscal responsibility isn't something that can be blown off any more.
Although I don't blame the student completely. My daughter is in college. The cost of the books in fucking INSANE. $600 for a book that will be obsolete by the next semester?
We went through similar. Years ago, my son had to buy an Economics book that his professor had written, and had to buy it NEW, not used. Cost was $300. The prof decided not to use the book and never told the kids to return it. When we found out, we tried to return it to the school bookstore, and they told us we were too late for returns. So, we wasted $300. I would have been happy even if we'd gotten the used book price for the return.
I'm sure he did. I don't know who I was angrier at - the prof or the bookstore. The book was still in its original plastic wrapping!
That's who I would be pissed at.
There you go Jeremy. Part of the equation. The worst we had was a 3 book package, $1,100 for one course.
Oh, come on, everyone.
Shouldn't people be allowed to borrow money and never have to pay it back? Aren't they ENTITLED to it? Isn't it someone else's fault for them taking out more loans than they can handle?
Education, like health care, should be 100% socialized. A healthy, educated populace is in EVERYONE'S best interest.
Why?
Will a person with a college education ever work in a restaurant, a daycare center, dig ditches, do landscaping?
Yes.
Restaurant servers with college degrees are hardly a new thing.
What do you have against an educated populace?
Not a thing, but everyone going to college is a pipedream and unrealistic, besides being a monumental waste of money.
A server or bartender has absolutely no need to attend college, if that is what they want to be their whole life.
Nobody said everybody had to go. Socialization addresses how it's funded, not who receives it.
I doubt most people aim to be a bartender or a server. Sometimes, when the economy is crap, that's all a college grad can find. But at least they're qualified, when a job in their field does become available.
Still doesn't mean that we should pay for anyone and everyone to go to college. And people who have borrowed money should pay it back. That is what they agreed to do when they TOOK the money.
I commend you for trying......
Why do you assume "education" means "college"?
"Education" could also mean "trade school".
Agreed borrowers should pay back loans, but taking away their ability to make the money to pay back loans isn't going to make that more likely. It's like putting deadbeat dads in jail - nobody's paying child support from jail.
A loan is a loan. The government should use all tools at its disposal to collect money rightfully belonging to it. And would you limit how long someone can attend school? What happens if halfway through a trade school, the student decides it isn't the trade he wants? Do we pay for yet even more training? Is there a limit, and why or why not??
Something like tuition payment for military recruits would be an idea - we pay for your training, you use that training in a government or government-subsidized job for a predetermined number of years, or be held liable for the costs of that training. We already have a similar arrangement to bring health care providers to underserved areas by repaying their loans.
Need training as a plumber? Fine - government pays, and then you work as a plumber building or maintaining government facilities. Mechanic? Same deal. Med school? Work in Alaska, or serve in the military for a certain period, and we've got you covered.
I'm still in repayment for my student loans. If my license were to be confiscated, how in the world would I manage to repay those loans? Better to garnish their wages or tax refunds than to remove their ability to pay it, thereby guaranteeing it won't be paid. Confiscate personal property. How is ending a debtor's earning ability a good collections technique?
What if the student simply decides he doesn't want to be a plumber anymore and drops out of the school?
And forced conscription isn't a very popular idea in the US.
What happens if the person is a really shitty plumber (!) and does bad work? Does the govt. fire him and lose the money they spent training him?
Deadbeat dad usually go to jail because they simply refuse to pay. Sometimes a little time in the pokey will loosen those wallets up!
I believe my post said something about being held liable for the cost.
Nobody said anything about forced conscription. I had dental school classmates who served in the military in return for having their tuition paid. No arms were twisted. One was even an immigrant
A shitty plumber shouldn't receive certification.
To let out what, exactly? How much money are they making while they're there?
Do you think everyone with a plumbing license is good at it? And how do you get someone to pay if they decide not to go to work for the govt.? Would you suspend his licenses?
What if there aren't enough job? What if there aren't enough jobs where the student decides he wants to live?
Um, maybe when they get out, they get a job and start paying like they should have been all along??
What makes you think doing virtually nothing is going to result in the deadbeat dad paying what he owes? Especially when he has already proven it doesn't work?
Garnish wages and any tax refunds they're owed.
Confiscate personal property.
Certification can be revoked for lousy work, then hold them liable for costs of training.
As far as jobs - they'd have to go where the jobs are. The current program in place for loan repayment for health care providers specifies underserved areas as the only places where applicants can work and qualify for loan repayment. Requiring program beneficiaries to go where the qualified jobs are while they're in the program is something we're already doing in one program, so we know it's doable.
If jobs in a specific field are rare, no government-paid training should be available in that field. Pay for your own training, and proceed at your own risk.
Why are you assuming I advocate for doing virtually nothing?
Why is it jail or virtually nothing?
If the other measures had worked, then they wouldn't be in arrears, now would they?
The only family I know where the deadbeat dad went to jail for a bit - he stayed in arrears, but had a government job and a nice house. Seems to me that garnishing his wages (easy, since it's Uncle Sam that paid them) or confiscating his home would have been more effective. It couldn't have been less effective, as jail didn't do a thing.
Now, you stop making sense right now before you hurt someone's FEELINGS! LOL
From what I've read they have it set up where a person can pay 10% of their income, but if they don't have a job, they don't have an income. I know young people who haven't gotten a job for 2 or 3 years after finishing college and it seems too many of them aren't looking for a job either. Too many children aren't taught responsibility to take care of themselves it seems these days.
The old "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a slogan popularized by Karl Marx. Always turns out the more you follow that slogan the number of people who have needs increases and the number of people who have ability diminishes.
Excellent point. Grades should be kept up or the loan stops. The loan is still due to be paid off anyway up to that point.
We agree on several things above, but the terms of those agreements are the things we don't agree on. Like I don't have a problem with and educated populace. I don't agree with the socialization of it.
But we do agree loans should be paid back and we do agree preventing a person from earning a living at their chosen field they are trained in is not a solution to the problem and only makes it worse. As I understand it the system is set up at 10% of your income.
It's when you insinuate a person has a problem with an educated populace when I know that is not the problem the person has, we don't agree.
If you say so.
And the way it works now is any better? Students graduating with crippling debt, or else unable to find a job because a high school diploma doesn't cut it anymore? Right now, our higher education system serves to line the pockets of lenders, or those who buy debt from them.
You know, I'd agree with you about socialization of higher education, if it weren't being priced out of reasonable reach for so many families. But it is, and it affects the public service sector and the economy in general. Want good public school teachers? They either raise their pay so they can afford their student loans, reduce the amount they need to take out in loans, or expect that those who can work in higher-paying fields will, leaving us with mediocre teachers. Want to decrease health care costs? Address the fact that physicians are graduating with 6-figure debt, sometimes near half a million dollars. That's daunting for a new grad who's already starting out his or her career, and therefore loan repayment and retirement savings, nearly a decade later than cohorts. They can't afford to work for peanuts when they're that deep in debt. Want to encourage home ownership? College grads can't afford to buy a house when they're already paying student loans that amount to as much as a mortgage.
If students graduate with crippling debt, then that is on them. No one forced them to go to expensive school, and no one told them they couldn't work and go to school at the same time.
I handle payroll for my company. Do you know how many child support orders I have to deal with? It is ridiculous, and the amount is usually very small, but doubles because the parent is in arrears. I have had many people who will work right up until we get the court order for withholding, and then they quit so they can go somewhere else and presumably do the same thing all over again.
You don't get thousands of dollars behind by making payments on time..
There are plenty of ways to reduce college costs. Some people are too lazy to figure it out.
I have seen many high school kids graduate high school with lots of college credit hours. One kid (the valedictorian) of my grandson's class had 119 college hours already.
My other grandson worked a great internship during 2 summer which paid really, really well. He graduated, accepted a job with the same company, and paid off his student loans in 3 years. Of course, he didn't go to a pricey college. Funny thing is, his employer seems quite happy with his education level and production.
Local community colleges are a great way to save tons of money. No need to go all 4 years at the expensive school. Just transfer and get your degree from there if the name on your sheepskin is that important to you. Many employers look at a person applying and determine what percentage of their own college expenses they paid. It shows determination, maturity, and a good work ethic--all traits employers favor highly.
Yeah, and where most of those countries take outrageous amounts of people's earnings in taxes to pay for all that largess.
Hell, wasn't it Greece confiscating money out of peoples bank accounts a few years ago.
It appears some people always have an excuse for everything.
Sometimes, it takes longer than four years to achieve one's goal of a degree. Sometimes, five or six years, but in the end you see your hard work acknowledged.
Both my sons had student loans and both paid them back. It wasn't easy, but some things were put on hold until they were paid.
College professors have to make a livable wage just like everyone else. Teaching is an honorable profession, but they still require a livable wage.
You would only be subject to losing your license if you didn't make the loan payments you agreed to.
Confiscating personal property? Like what? Someone's tv or radio? Can't touch their home or car.
Why not? Homes and cars are repossessed all the time.
Does everybody who is eligible for Medicaid or Medicare utilize all of the services for which they're eligible under those programs?
No.
There will always be those who choose not to utilize even that which benefits them and is free at point of use. High school dropout rates attest to that.
Even state-supported colleges are expensive now. And working doesn't pay tuition and living expenses as it used to do, unless you have more than a minimum-wage job, in which case, you probably already have a degree. And some courses of study are so rigorous as to prevent a part-time job.
Not everyone lives near a community college. Where I grew up, there was a tiny branch of a community college in my county, where you could take a few classes that I'd already completed as AP courses in high school. To attend the actual main campus of that community college, I'd have had to drive 45-60 minutes one way. No point paying so much in travel expenses when I could go straight to a 4-yr college and get the degree I actually needed for the post-grad work I wanted to do.
And by the time I graduated in the 90s, the liberal arts degree everybody likes to deride was pretty much a thing of the past, even at the small liberal arts college I attended. By then, it was all about STEM, and still is. I knew a lot of hard science majors, quite a few education and business majors, some religion majors (it was a Methodist college), and no sociology or philosophy majors at all.
That's nonsense. Not everyone needs to, and/or should go to college.
I can't even count the people I knew who were going to college when I was there only as a four year party. They got nothing out of it and ended up working as bartenders or waitresses anyway. And that is paying for college. It would just get worse if people didn't have to pay for it.
Social programs like that are just great until you run out of other people's money.
Sounds kind of stupid for someone who wants to be a waiter, bartender, or lawncare guy to waste time and money going to college, doesn't it?
Why would we ever want everyone to go to college?
Pretty sure that the garbage man on my route doesn't need a degree!
Yeah jobs in the trades are beneath many folks today. The trades were good enough for those of us who helped build this country but not for them.
They evidently require some liberal arts degree that's a dime a dozen and then wonder why they can't get a good paying job.
So they have to ask for 15 bucks an hour to flip burgers
The average age of a licensed plumber is 58. I guess there is a shortage of skilled trade workers.
E.A NASA on the ISS is now " Recycling Everything " SO I can envision tube from Anus to Mouth, so guess what?
Had i stayed in the skilled trades i would have been retired years ago and probably working on a second pension. Not a complaint because i don't regret that choice in the least but rather to make a point of how well a job like that can work out if one is so motivated.
They would be better off apprenticing in the trades, not enough young people willing to work their way up or work with their hands anymore.
Also, there is a coming pilot shortage, lots of airlines are making all kinds of deals...signing bonuses, tuition reimbursement, etc.
You know I worked to put myself through school. I spent 3 semesters at Hofstra University which was private. It cost $5,800/year. In today's money, that is $15,151. you can work and pay that off.
My daughters' school cost $67K a year/kid. Yes, it was a top school, but they are going into medicine. But in my day, I know kids who went to equivalent schools and that between $5-$9k. The math doesn't work.
The problem is that the universities have gotten too expensive. I am not sure why, but that is a fact. Tuition is outpacing inflation by 4 times and there has to be a problem with that.
I went to a private school for undergrad. When I graduated, it cost about $14,000 per year, but I had scholarships, so I didn't pay nearly that much. Last I checked, tuition, room, and board at my alma mater was approaching $25,000 per year. I don't know how a family with more than one child can possibly afford that.
I've tried to save for my son's education, so he won't have the student loan debt I've had, but I think it may be unavoidable.
We were lucky with the girls Sandy. But we also told them that their post grad work was on them. They took that very seriously and picked their schools accordingly.
But our school system has changed.
When I went to Queens College for my undergrad it was $900 a year. Now it's $6330/year. But still adjusted for inflation it should be $3,551.95/year
When a public school has doubled it's tuition, there is something else going on in the system.
A huge problem for kids. You pay professor's more, you charge to keep up the newest, latest, greatest buildings, you pay for the insider textbook scam (professor's write them, get their friends to require them and visa-versa) that the student gets killed dollar wise for. As to 'socializing' college? Don't you need to get the professor's to buy in on a socialized standard of pay? What of the current infrastructure on each and every campus? Very few in the 'business' of higher education are interested in making less money, regardless of how they feel other people should act.
That makes no sense in this case. Queens college used to get more subsidies than they do today and their ranking has never gone up or down. Why does everything have to boil down to a single talking point?
Exactly. Many things subsidized by the government becomes more expensive.
Of course, having some professors making 100k per year while only teaching classes 2 or 3 days a week I ridiculous, too.
And all the "amenities' provided by colleges nowadays. Why do they need a climbing wall?
And if we were to have socialized education in college or even trade schools, they would charge more. I use to sell insurance before the government got so involved in it. I could sell a family of four a $100 deductible, 80% of the next $5,000 and then 100% up to $1,000,000 at that time. Then the government got more and more involved in insurance and the rates are no where near they were then.
When I was in the Air Force a carburetor at the shop I worked in cost the government 10 times what you could buy the same carburetor off the base. We use bomb lift lights on our dirt bikes so we could drive on the road. The lights would cost 25% of what you had to pay for the entire bike. And if a general did an inspection on the base, we were ordered to throw away the excess stock. Government intervention always makes the price of anything go up because it's not their money.
There’s a difference between unwilling to pay back a loan and unable to do it. When I got out of college, I took a job in a shoe store because I couldn’t find anything else. I worked weekends and as many weekdays as they would give me but it still wasn’t a full time job. I could barely make ends meet and had nothing left over after paying for food and shelter, I had no car, no credit cards, and no health care. I rode a bicycle for transportation or walked. My bed was an old pullout sofa. I ate at a card table with fold up chairs. My meals were mostly oatmeal or rice. I could never pay my rent on time but the landlord cut me a break because i was trying. My only entertainment (other than my girlfriend) was a TV that was so cheap that it caught on fire while I was watching it. After it burned up, I had nothing. I probably should have applied for public assistance but I would die before I stuck my hand out.
I couldn’t repay my student loans and they went into collections. The collection office hounded me constantly as though I could somehow crap coins. They called me up and threatened to sue me. I was so tired of being hounded that I laughed and said do whatever you want but you’ll never get blood out of a turnip. They left me alone for a while and, eventually, I decided that the best thing to do was roll the loan into more loans, go back to school, and try to get a job higher up the pay scale. When I got out of school, I eventually made enough money to pay everything back.
I understand why the government wants to be repaid but I also understand that a debtor may not be able to repay it and chopping off the person’s hands won’t produce a dime.
Oh. Em. Gee. We agree on something.
I have friends that have kids that are pursuing degrees while accruing massive debt. College costs keep escalating (except for the odd few). A friend of mine went to Purdue, then got his masters form Georgetown. He was able to find a job working in a law firm running their mail room/print room. His end goal was to get a job at a college and write text books, because that's where the real money is, you get your friend professors to require your book, you require theirs and everyone gets paid. I've started thinking that the 1950s/1960s parental goal of 'my kid(s) going to college' is a dream that has lost it's focus-and let's be serious, the vast majority of those defaulting on student loans are college attendees, not trade schools.
There will always be those trades looked down upon by the college grad crowd, but when everyone has a degree, the one guy that can unplug your toilet, fix your roof, your furnace, your A/C, your car (etc., etc.).....that guy will be king, but our society doesn't really encourage those pursuits.