Former Green Beret Nate Boyer on Colin Kaepernick: ‘It’s OK to be different’
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
I am sharing this, because reading this made me have to stop and rethink my own approach to the subject of NFL players protesting during the anthem.... it is a quick read and worth it...
Before former Seahawks and University of Texas long snapper Nate Boyer began playing football, he served six years in the United States Army. A former Green Beret, Boyer made the Longhorns' roster as a walk-on in 2010, and eventually signed with Seattle and had a short preseason stint in 2015 after going undrafted.
In August of 2016, Boyer wrote an open letter to Colin Kaepernick after the then-49ers quarterback started to gain national attention for sitting during the national anthem. Boyer and Kapernick met and discussed the issue, and it was Boyer who suggested to Kaepernick that he should kneel during the anthem as a respectful form of protest.
Boyer has frequently voiced his support for Kaepernick's right to protest, but as the issue of protests has been spun by commentators, and even the President of the United States, Kaepernick's actions have often been misconstrued as a question of patriotism. As the backlash to Nike's recent ad campaign starring Kaepernick has shown, there are plenty of people who still don't understand the issue at hand.
In a thoughtful op-ed published by NBC News, Boyer urged people "on both ends of the political spectrum" to embrace and respect conflicting viewpoints. Boyer writes that "nobody is a perfect patriot."
"Two years ago, Colin Kaepernick sat on the bench during the national anthem for the first time before the San Francisco 49ers played the Green Bay Packers in a preseason game. This was the statement he gave after the game explaining why he was protesting: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
When Kaepernick and I met and talked just six days later, a few hours before the 49ers were set to play the San Diego Chargers, we discussed a lot, but more importantly we listened to each other. I wanted him to stand and he had pledged to sit during the anthem, but we found middle ground: Colin would take a knee, making his statement about police brutality while also respecting the men and women who fought and died for what our flag is supposed to represent.
The men who have followed in Kaepernick's footsteps say they are not protesting the anthem itself, they are demonstrating during the anthem. It's an important distinction to understand. Personally, I do not endorse Kaepernick's method of protest but I absolutely support his right to do so. That is an unpopular place to stand these days, in the radical middle, defending someone you somewhat disagree with…. It's hard for me to grasp why this is so difficult for people (from both ends of the political spectrum) to understand. It's OK to be different, it's what makes us the same - embrace it and remember that nobody's a perfect patriot, especially not me."
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For me, Kaepernick not voting caused me to lose respect for the man, not the cause .. what I have been failing to see is the middle ground..
I kept telling people that taking a knee was way more respectful than standing there scratching your balls, but it takes a Green Beret to say it.
Thanks, Mr Boyer. I salute you
I never questioned Kaepernick's patriotism .. I agree with the cause - I did not want to hear about it throughout the game I was watching though, so I quit watching..
I thought Kaepernick was a role model for youth in America, even though I did not / do not agree with his show of protest being during the anthem … as I said above, him not voting was a deal breaker and I have voiced it many times..
Now I need to reevaluate my bowed neck on the subject... and yes, thank you Nate Boyer
And that is his problem how? I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, but a protest is designed to bring awareness to a problem .. correct? Then once everyone is aware that shooting unarmed black men is actually a problem that needs to be addressed … then as individuals 'we' begin to work on the problem...
For me, Tamir Rice sent me into a rage - I could not believe the incompetence that was defended in the officer that shot him - I do not agree with the approach Kaepernick took, and I have issues with him being a role model, especially for not voting ……. but wow to point a finger at Colin Kaepernick for getting rich and not solving the problem - is beyond disingenuous .. my opinion
sadly you either didnt read the article or you choose to lie to yourself if you have not heard about the ACTIONS he has done with his own money away from the football field.
your mentality of really looking for a reason to deny WHY this man took this stance is really a decision on your part. because most folks recognize prejudice or injustice and either decide to do something about it on a personal level or not.
so a RELATIVE example would be going to jr high and remembering when the fat kid was always picked last because nobody wanted him on there team.
same thing here, a cop who decides to treat black people differently because he devalues there citizenship or has values where it is acceptable to do so based on personal experiences or observations.
and yet our laws and policy and procedures dont allow for it. why is that so tough to see. why is it that a citizen should be treated differently just because the cop we pay our taxes too chooses to disregard a FOUNDING principal of the job, which is to treat every body the same.
meaning a simple petty ticket, you would get based on a p.c. observation is the same petty ticket a black person should get if they did the same thing you did. and yet with the help of VIDEO, we have confirmation that is NOT what happens to some blacks and minority.
the HONEST CONVERSATION about that is what is lacking. and yet to ask someone to put themselves in someone elses shoes who is different and THINK just take a moment and think...............................................would you feel like you would be a valued citizen, in a country where "all men are created equal and free to live life and pursue the american dream" probably not after dealing with the few bad cops that deliberately target minorities.
do you not get that over the course of time that negative effect of not knowing if any good cops are left can be a real feeling.
here is a good example from where i live.
So if you were a Hispanic person knowing this cop is out there HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? how would it feel to know that you might have leave earlier for work so if you get stopped you wont be late. how would you feel if your son came home and was scared and hurt this cop intimidated him just because he thinks hispanics are not worth rights to be free from government interference?
And if you get nothing else from my rambling on this specific topic understand KAEP and the green baret came up with this idea, so is the green baret not a role model now too?
Came up with what idea?
ooh for shits sake................................the white green baret is the one who originally suggested that kaepernick take a knee during a mutual disussion.
this is exactly a problem "ignorance" how can you bitch about something that you clearly dont know anything about except how it looks to you vs the issue that a white guy agreed is a problem in america. A honored and respected service member was saddened and disappointed on knowing that his fellow citizens are dying in the streets when the deadly use of force is not always needed.
come on ....wow you really just exposed yourself way to much. SMH
You should take your own advice for shits sake. I already read it and knew you are full of crap.
Yeah it was the Green Berets idea for him to protest.
sadly you seem to cherry pick -- the only one bullshiting is you!! grow up
Instead of insulting other members of the site, why don't you actually talk about what he is doing, off field (well, he doesn't have a role on-field anymore anyway) to make things better?
Is that within your abilities?
I understand what you are saying. I would never accost anyone for exercising their freedom of speech in say, burning a flag. As a Military Member, I find it abhorrent, but I also am a protector of their right. I will call them a dumbass, my side of the freedom of speech thing. With Kapernick, I have to wonder, what is the ratio of Black men and women killed in the streets of our cities by other black men or women, compared to the amount of black men or women being shot by police officers? The number is far alrger for the former rather than the latter, though both are wrong, where is the concern for the former?
True .. and I have questioned this myself - when my oldest joined Black Lives Matters after Ferguson, I stepped on my own foot with my son when I said "Isn't it about time that blacks stepped up and paid attention to blacks shooting other blacks" .. I was then told that systemic racism needs to be exposed, eliminated and that is what law enforcement shooting black men, especially unarmed ones was all about .. it was akin to a lynching, a show of power over blacks - because so many officers never have charges filed again them...
I always felt that the 'cause' used the wrong individuals as the poster children - Trayvon was not shot by law enforcement, and a false narrative that it about race was put forth by the media .. Ferguson started as a lie about what Michael Brown was doing prior to being shot - and escalated rapidly, was out of control before anyone was even aware of what was happening ..
I myself am learning .. I am seeing things from the inside and the outside - there is anger and I cannot say that that anger is misplaced .. when a cop goes home to the wrong floor and enters an unarmed black mans apartment and shoots him cuz she thinks he is an intruder .. sometimes things just do not quite add up when an officer shoots a black man... alas, I have no answers
get over the insulting crap-- a simple check up and down this seed and the other seed on this topic has this members comments removed or deleted by the monitors. also please try not to act as if insults is where any of us start. but a person who chooses to lie and then spin comments so to not have to acknowledge that fact actual does exist, just doesn't get my respect.
the part you need to recognize is the moment you decided to say something to me over information that is correct.
what is in my abilities is to interact with members who have a sense of substance as to the reason they want to acknowledge there position on a certain topic. sadly this topic is not one to use bullshit to make a stance. B ecause this is a day to day real life event for a certain amount of YOUR FELLOW CITIZENS.
again as i noted above (some place) the need for people to disregard the reality of the plight of aggressive use of force by either bad cops or racist cops can effect the lives of those minorities dam near daily. and yet for many white people that NEVER HAVE THERE FUCKING DAY interrupted by these type cops, there is a disconnect.
so it is with in my abilities to provide factual examples like this link. which is factual and it is with in my abilities to ask YOU , does this make sense about how sad this situation is for some of your fellow citizens. If you are a legal resident and Hispanic would you not feel like you are not, when this bad cop could effect your day?
it is within my abilities to know first hand the effect of dealing with both racist cops and bad cops because i put in my 20 years of public service up here in MN. And i have witnessed situations that make ALL THE GOOD WORK BY GOOD COPS go to shit over the actions of a bad or racist cop
so yes i have a low tolerance to deal with bull-shiters even here. sadly if you took the time to worry about how i interact with others, then you too got your priorities wrong too. my comments and meaning and facts allow for anyone concerned about the topic enough to go on a provide there input vs policing how it is shared. smh
well i can tell you that i appreciate your comment because speaking honestly and frankly is what has to happen. But as you will notice up and down these type of seeds, there is a disconnect by some who really dont have the ability to comprehend how it would feel to be treated differently by that bad acting cop.
in the end, good cops are trying to do there best to let the public know there are more of them then the bad cops. Sadly like bad news it only takes one bad cops actions to un due a lot of the positive and professional work of all the good cops.
again your comment is appreciated.
If Sunshine would pay attention to the actual story and comments......
One just has to wonder, if he WERE still an NFL quarterback, how much would he be doing in the off season for his "cause". Not meaning to be contrary but, of all the knee takers still playing, how many take advantage of the off season to further the cause? We never hear about that so one has to wonder, do they really want to bother. JMT
No argument from me Jim … I have no clue what is done during the off season, do not think anyone really cares what a player has to say until the season starts …. I also have to wonder if Kaepernick was not already well under way to being a man without a team before the protest began in September 2016... ? Teams were interested in signing him, but required him to take a pay cut as early as April 2016.. Wa La teams found other quarter backs... [see Denver Broncos for one example]
I think they could do some local or national ads with their funds and the NFL may have chipped in.
Agreed
"Most NFL players don’t stick to sports — and that’s often a good thing. During their free time, which is limited during the season, many work tirelessly to benefit their communities."
Some of the reaction to that has been negative, but lost in the discussion is the positive impact players make away from the football field. So SB Nation’s team sites decided to highlight different ways teams and players give their time, money, and platform to benefit those who welcome their help."
That is a small list of over 30 NFL players giving back to their communities and working towards making a difference other than on a football field.
per your question,
The other part of this, is what can you do. Most of us just have to take a moment and imagine dealing with a racist minded cop and deciding how you would feel about dealing with that type of cop for your life span.
In many cases, good cops try hard to limit bad cops interactions with the public, they run interference and try to protect minority citizens when the can but when they cant, would you feel free or safe knowing you might end up dying at a traffic stop.
As above here is a great example on how much i would hate to be a Hispanic citizen, dealing with this cop in this community and yet i provided it so you know can read for yourself how this is real. And maybe you can sit back and wonder how crappy it would be to know that this cop targeted this community in this city, which i am embarrassed to share is only 30 minutes away from my home.
can you imagine how many bad cops like this is needed to turn a community into fear.......i am going to say not many. So then the question becomes how long did it take before someone listened and took action on a government level......do you see it now. can you appreciate how frustrating it would be to express to white citizens how being Hispanic and not being able to come and go in this community would be.
thank god for video in some cases, now can you multiple by years how dealing with a racist minded cop could effect minorities who have tried to raise the attention of others to a problem with the SMALL AMOUNT OF BAD COPS who treat people differently. And yet how frustrating it must be for GOOD COPS to have to keep cleaning up the bad/ racist cops mess.
so again these NFLers do get out and they do put in an effort to engage and share and put there time and money where there protest is.
the conversation is being held now can it happen, so yes to your question about action being taken by all invested in making a positive change.
I have little doubt that some component of his protest was an attempt to become “relevant” again since as of 2016 he had become more or less irrelevant as a starting QB in the NFL. It is a little more problematic when it comes to being a backup QB but make no mistake, if any owner thought he could help their team be more cohesive and win more, he would be on a roster somewhere. No doubt.
NFL owners are businessmen trying to make money and winning makes money. That’s the bottom line.
I follow Pittsburgh .. I have 2 favorites though, Pittsburgh and any team playing Denver and Dallas : ) I have watched what has happened to QB's, just on Pittsburg alone - there are only so many 'excellent QB's' .. getting benched is never a good sign after being a starter for several years … and I agree with the 'if he could help their team' he would be playing … yet there is a certainly level of management saying ' I do not want a lightning rod on my 'team' .. especially if there is other talent to scout ..
There are things that are not being addressed in the media at this point .. Kaepernick made some deliberate choices that impacted his career, .. he was black ball'd for the protest? o'nt know, but I think there are multiple factors involved as to why he is a man without a team .. salary being up there on the list, I speculate ...
Anyone who has owned a business with employee's understands some of the possibilities. In his case it's likely some of all of these:
1.) He's not capable of doing the job you are looking for
2.) There are better options (people) available for the job so you hire them first
3.) As you said, no one needs a lighting rod causing dissension in the ranks
4.) It doesn't make fiscal sense to hire him
5.) Some other nefarious reason like the media would like you to believe.
Honestly i don't see it to be number five at all. Not unless some of these owners are dumb businessmen. I've hired many people that i didn't like simply because they were the BEST PERSON for the job at the time. It's business 101:
You don't have to like who you work with. If they are the best option when all things are considered ..... you hire them.
Valid points Sparty on...
It is sad, to me, that Kaepernick believes he has been black ball'd and is suing the NFL (have not read much on the suit itself) but I do know that the suit has been allowed to move forward..
I have contradicting feelings .. there is a problem that has many facets - yet all along the protest has been about Kaepernick and not the why behind the action he has taken … now there is a commercial, that is all about Kaepernick, 'his sacrifices' of giving up everything for what he believes in .. and making money for Nike as well as himself (my interpretation) ...… I have read that 'millennials' want a brand to have a political, social conscience - which means (?) that Nike did a lil research .. knew liberals were more inclined to buy Nike shoes - and wa la a new Just Do It commercial campaign has begun .. follow the money?
..
The recent Dallas shooting where the officer was going home after shift but entered the wrong apartment (one report I read said she was even on the wrong floor(?) and shot a unarmed black man she believed to be an intruder - not sure even Hollywood could make that one up..
Peace Sparty on .. thanks for sharing your thoughts with me
Yep and time will tell.
They wouldn't be the first to possibly misinterpret the countries will/mindset.
Last big time that happened was 2016. No one gave Trump a chance to win ..... and yet he won.
Whoopsie!
Still scratching and shaking my head over that one : ) ..
I will be waiting and watching - I was hard on Kaepernick for not voting, and is still a deal breaker for me .. I will not trash him again, yet doubt I will ever be able to respect the man .. I stand firmly with the cause!
Kaepernick as a NFL star was washing out in April of 2016 .. I think some individuals need to do a wee bit of research before they scream the NFL blocked him because he sat on the bench …………. nope, he was benched before the protest began! I shall not name names.. : )
After Sunday's game, The Bills might offer Kapernick a contract........
Ooo? Do tell ….
Alas .. you are preaching to the converted and in my opinion mentor was never on Kaepernick's mind, but photo ops were ..... if one is inclined to jump into the 'Wayback Machine' and take a lil trip with Mr. Peabody, to probable history, one will find Colin Kaepernick on a High School football field with the football team as they lie upon the field showing/practicing their protest for the next games anthem ... shortly after which he said...
I said I would not bash Kaepernick again - but I do not think using his own words against him is bashing ...
Peace razing ...
A missed opportunity for sure .. wonder if he [Kaepernick] ever read about the battles that were fought by blacks to obtain the right to vote?
My husband is Hispanic and has long hair and a beard. A number of years ago he drove an old beat-up Cadillac because he needed wheels to get back and forth to work, the Caddy was cheap.
Anyway....driving around our small town one day...he gets stopped by a local cop. For no other reason than the cop said he was tailgating. I'm pretty certain Mr Giggles was profiled that day by a white cop. Did I mention that my town is probably 95% white and very conservative?
On a good day, Mr Giggles looks a lot like Tommy Chong.
well as you can see by a few replies from some members, they dont believe it. and yet what they seem to either be lacking by choice or because they are so conditioned is this need to stand firm in believing that racist cops dont exist.
sadly they have a disconnect about how those cops are. they dont have any special stand out uniforms, they cant be detected until they CHOOSE TO USE THAT MENTALITY. So sadly folks who are white that arent on a racist cops mind , just get to go about there day with out interruption.
What gets me is that.....some of these members can seem to acknowledge a time where they have witnessed prejudice enough to recall it when a person like myself provides reasonable information to confirm that racist cops do exist.
I mean there are guys and girls that were picked on just for not fitting in the norm of the popular folks. That feeling of being picked on is no different then a racist cop going into a community and making up stuff to harass minorities.
You would think white folks would be tired of paying out lawsuits in the millions just because a racist cop escalates a simple traffic stop. Now again (before they want to complain) i am not speaking about the good professional cops that work in minorities areas that do there job correctly and by the book. But specifically to those that target and treat minorities different because they can and choose too.
On the flip side, it is really frustrating when a bunch of good cops are not in power in there own police depts across this nation. So as much they want to get rid of bad or racist cops it takes a lot of effort and thats really to bad, especially if they have an administration that only boots cops when lawsuits occur vs a pattern of misconduct that has existed with those type cops.
As in the linked article, this is a real day to day event at time across america. And for many people they dont know that feeling your husband has or that feeling you had knowing that he was treated the way he was because that cop felt he was not worthy of him maintaining his oath to the badge and job.
But instead the need to go fishing hoping your husband was "one of those" bad ones.
I don’t see anyone here suggesting there aren’t racist cops. Anyone who has walked this earth for at least a couple decades knows how shitty and power hungry some cops can be, including being racist. Your type of hyperbolic exaggeration is what stalls any chance of meaningful debate on topics like this.
Cops are just people after all. Some are good and some are bad.
well lets try this again.................have you seen anyone that has replied say there are some....nope so please stop with the flip bullshit. If people who replied to me HONESTLY believe that racists cops exist , then they could just type that. but they havent so dont assume they have suggested it.
and yet some of those power hungry shitty cops dont kill white people just for being white--but the racist cops do for those who are black--- sadly you are one of those who seem not to understand, this very simple concept. A racist cop is only known when he chooses to act on that type of mentality. Its that simple..its a mentality while in uniform.
bullshit its your need to assume anyone who says or expresses that it sucks dealing with racist cops in our society is doing so because of a hyperbolic exaggeration. This sentence is exactly the debate and the topic of why folks like you would rather complain about those who POINT IT OUT vs complain about why these racist cops arent removed. Why these racist cops forfiet millions of tax dollors in civil lawsuits and still keep there cop pensions.
and yet the racist ones are the ones DOING DAMAGE TO ALL THE GOOD WORK DONE BY GOOD COPS. Why doesnt that bother you at all?
Nah, you can play your sophomoric word games all you want but you’re still full of it.
Again, NO ONE here has said no cops are racist.
Your comment in that regard is at best disingenuous and at worst, a lie.
once again your comment exposes your inability to just be honest.
how hard is it to say "there are racist cops that should not be that way based on the oath they took and the color of the law"
wow that was so hard. but you guys cant do it because you dont have to deal with it,. so you disregard it and that lack of perspective is something that becomes clear every time you tell me what i know to be fact.
i know it based on my 20 years in L.E. here in MN and i know it because i have had to deal with it dam near my whole life.
again what gets me is that you cant find anything relative in your own life to even change your thought pattern. Sometimes the best changes in life come after a loss. God forbid thats the only way you can see things. But then again, maybe thats what it has to be.
a great example of this is how much a lot of my co-workers have reacted to the dallas cop shooting the black man in his own home.
Another example is this shooting that has happened up here. This family has since reached out and raised the alarm about the police conduct use of force standards because they now understand how frustrating it is for cops to use deadly use of force when it is NOT NECESSARY!
Nah, the only thing it exposes in my clear understanding of the human condition.
Considering that, how hard is it to understand that it's a statistical impossibility for NO LEO's to be racist? Not hard at all actually. Not if one has a basic understanding human nature.
Your need to hear it spoken speaks to something else i'm afraid.
By the way, human nature is not what this person is paid for. he or she is paid to not use human nature as the reason to engage with citizens, he or she is paid to do so based on policy and procedure and the law. --- the law is blind to color. The oath we take is based on the color of law and the code of fair and equal execution of the privileged power given to us upon certification.
so when i say to you that a racist cop stops a black person because he states (on the radio traffic ) that he is stopping someone for speeding but actually didnt lock in his radar -- then is this speeding, NO but he writes the ticket anyways. DO you not get that...... because he doesn't stop white folks for speeding just because they are white...................the law for speeding in MN is his ability to say in court the following.
"i observed the vehicle and it appeared to visually be moving above the posted speed limit. I was able to confirm my visual suspicion by using my radar detector to lock in the actual speed of this vehicle and proceeded to advise the driver of this information."
so smarty - guess how many times i responded to a traffic stop that involved a racist cop in my patrol district. More then enough times to WITNESS he did not lock in his radar and get a ping count number(the return frequency of the band used to calculate the speed)
so again, is that fair for your fellow citizen to have to deal with. again this is not about anything but YOUR ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND that your fellow legally born and raised citizens of color are not treated fairly when a cop who has a racist mind decides to act on it.
my question is , when do you have the guts to admit that it would be a pretty shitty deal to have happen to your fellow citizen of color.
I know what you are saying. I respect that Hon. I fought, and bled, for the flag. I fought and bled for the US constitution. I own guns, lots of guns. I promote free speech.
If I am not a hypocrite....I support kneeling during the National Anthem. I fought for their right to protest. If I am honest, this nation was founded because of protests.
I respect those who kneel, and I respect their message because I fought for their right to do so.
End of story.
Thank-you for your service, MrFrost
it seems many "patriots" are upset with Colin Kaepernick, but i'm not sure exactly why. These same "patriots" support "Make America Great Again" and it seems that Colin Kaepernick is only helping them out by identifying an issue that needs to be addressed to make America "great" again, correct ?
there seem to be some odd connections with these "patriots" who support wiping out completely what the previous president did and also criticize Colin Kaepernick.....
Ooo my Phoenyx you got multiple digs in, in just 2 short paragraphs .. I do like how you tied it all together at the end though : )
well - did Colin Kaepernick not identify an issue that would need to be addressed to make America "great" again ? are there not supporters of "Make America Great Again" who constantly criticize Colin Kaepernick for what he identified and how he's handling it ? are there not supporters who criticize Colin Kaepernick and also support erasing everything Obama did ? .... which part(s) of my statement were incorrect ? (not meant to be combative, just asking questions, i always enjoy our conversations since you give honest feedback in a respectful and well thought out manner)
Where did I say you were incorrect? My comment was smarted assed in nature - as you cover/identifying several 'issues' in a rather short comment.
You and I have discussed the whole 'make America great again' thing .. of which I do not buy into. Yet I keep hearing there is this conversation that is needed to be had about race .. yet NO one wants to talk about it in a way that middle ground can be reached .. I have had people go as far as to tell me that Trump dismantling Obamas 'stuff' it has to do with race and Obama being a black man, is that the direction you are heading when stating:
I just want to make sure I thinking correctly what I think you may be thinking .. : )
oh gotcha
i can definitely agree with that - the conversation needs to be had, in my opinion, but it's a very emotionally charged subject that people won't talk about objectively and won't come to a middle ground on either side - at least in my opinion.
that's a good possibility - but it can also mean that Obama was more liberal than Trump and that Colin Kaepernick is liberal (at least in this aspect) as well and it seems anything "liberal" lately is also bad as well (just read some of the seeds around here, i'm not defending either side). i will also state that in the past few years (not just since Trump) that race has become a more prominent and charged issue, those who discriminate against race (whether they are in small or large numbers) have become more fearless, angry and provocative in nature - yet they are "dismissed" as a "small group" with "no influence", but we've had situations similar to that in history which seems to fall upon deaf ears. What gets to me ? many of these "patriots" get angry at the "elites" for their status, money and influence - claiming they should be using their influence for positive things (instead of bashing the current President), yet when someone does that, someone does shine light on a race issue - these same "patriots" are instantly angry and want to take away his right to protest (advocating for him to never play in the NFL again, which is his profession, yet criticizing anyone who wants Trump impeached... among other things), and yet still complain he's not using his status, money and influence for positive things (as per their standards). There seems to be a lot of issues.... yet Colin Kaepernick, ironically, only pointed out an issue that needs to be addressed to put America on the path to be "great" again - something i'm told that "patriots" supposedly support.
As always, good points...
I am so blind to the liberal / conservative side of life - it is the last place my mind goes .. yet at the same time the political divide has become a factor in everyday life - they even break down shopping habits and stores shopped by politic party... Screammmmm!
From my 'perspective / view point' race became magnified in 2012 (or at least that is when racial tensions rocked my lil family) but race was becoming a stronger topic from the minute Obama took office .. I was so naïve in thinking that the US was putting the past behind 'us' and moving into a enlightened era with his [Obama's] election (boy was I wrong) .. all sides of the multi faceted coin began to implode (perhaps explode) sides were chosen, with many insisting that a side HAD to be chosen - I began feeling like I was living a Jeff Foxworthy joke, but instead of 'you might be a redneck' it was 'you might be a racist if ….' fast forward to fall of 2016 - ummm how could race not be polarized .. side were already chosen...
Do not think politics or patriotism have a thing to do with the problem .. but they certainly seem to be fueling it...
i'm aware of it and keep tabs on it but choose not to participate in it. I am conservative in some areas of life and yet liberal in others and still in the middle on others. Obviously, i'd make a horrible partisan liberal or partisan conservative.
It makes me want to scream as well. both sides complain about "identity politics" yet it's fueled by both sides as well into everyone's daily lives.
I think that's when things started to heighten - because Obama took office for a 2nd term and it upset the "other" party for multiple reasons.
i think they both fuel the problem in many ways - they also seem to be influences of choosing sides and forcing others to do the same, that whole "if you aren't with me, then you are against me" mindset. Thank you for the civil conversation, as always, and i wish you the best
Good point, was not even thinking of the election .. I was thinking more along the lines of Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman bringing the boil to a head.. there was a cascade after that ..
I always enjoy joisting with you .. lol! It is always a pleasure to exchange thoughts with you
Why should a paying customer be a part of his protest? The consumer may not agree with his protest...why should they pay for a ticket to watch it?
Protest on his own time and dime. Those who want to be a part of it can join him.
Do you not even know that Kaepernick isn't playing right now? But to answer your question, no one has to buy a ticket or is being forced to watch any of it. Some variation of this protest is going to continue so if you don't like it, stop watching. The players have the freedom of speech and you have the freedom to watch something else---or maybe not watch anything. Do something else....like a pleasant Fall walk. It'll do wonders for your blood pressure.
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lol...yes no one is watching him play now are they?
and Nike will tire of him real soon.
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Taking a respectful knee as a symbol of protest against an important issue is hardly disrespectful to anyone except racist assholes who think it is okay that a disproportionate number of young black men are being shot and killed unnecessarily by cops and other law enforcement. I wouldn't care if athletes took to their knees for other important social issues either. It isn't like they are actually being disrespectful when they are in fact being entirely respectful considering the issue and the context. Nobody is hurt and nobody has any right to be outraged by what is merely a very respectful way of bringing attention to a real social problem. Nobody but dickheads are upset by the whole "taking a knee" phenomenon. So, thanks for pointing that out...
Yes but when he was, he was employed and indirectly by those rabid niner fans that paid and watched him implode in the matter of four seasons. Try telling your boss he's an unfair, uncaring SOB while taking a knee in the middle of a staff meeting as you don't like his work policies. Let's see how long you last..............JMO
When you call the cops, you won't mind if they take a knee before responding, respectfully of course. After all it is their 1st amendment right while working.
Actually that would help alleviate the problem to a large degree. Usually when black folks are on the scene the cops just start shooting regardless of whether it's warranted. Maybe if cops actually thought for a second or two before they pulled the trigger there'd be fewer dead innocent black folks?
And YOU know this how? Are you checking everyone's TV, or going to the games and checking to see how many people are watching him? While ti may be your own OPINION, it does not in any way prove people are not watching him.
Your personal disdain for him does not mean in any way that everyone else feels that way.
Really You do realize she is correct.
Can you tell us what team he is playing for?
Try to be informed before you attack someone else's post.
Kaepernick sucked so bad you can't even watch him sit the bench anymore. And that is what he did before he started his protest.
Or people who use facts.
I am not aware of Kaepernik playing on any team currently. Are you?
I think football players are overrated so no I don't watch, except college, but thanks for asking.
Thank you KD.
Looks like Nike was rather smart.....they know that pudgy and racist elderly couch potatoes don't buy their shoes.
And do you realize that there many more ways to watch the NFL that are not calculated or tracked. So yes there may be some validity to the traditional means of polling the viewership. But there are also more folks who can watch these games with other means then sitting in front of a cable box.
Plus sadly the fact that there are also alot of citizens around this country that cant watch because natural disasters have devastated and up rooted there lifestyle. And much less other sporting outlets, for example the US OPEN was on. i flipped between both during each others commercials.
in the end, viewership is not the ebb and flow of the NFL. game day is, in the city that has that game. And that is what counts. And until the college to Pro pipeline doesn't work , the NFL is just fine.
ok....if you ever dial 911 I am sure you will ask them to stop, take a knee for 5 minutes to help alleviate the problem.
I don't care how you watch football. You are not going to watch Kaepernick play no matter what you try to spin. Unless watching reruns is your thing.
Other than that I don't know what you are babbling about.
Sunshine said No one is watching Kaepernick play now, are you refuting that?
lets not be a two year old about this. .......you raised the issue about viewership... i provided you the fact that MANY DEVICES can be used to observe the nfl games legally and illegally. And i just watched Kaepernick on a tv commercial that went WORLD WIDE. And since he was a former NFL guy , everyone knows that.... meaning he still has pull enough to be in a position to push his agenda, liked or unliked.
well its ok but not surprising.
i am saying NO ONE has be watching him play football for him to still be in the mainstream. he just went world wide again. Everyone knows he is not playing currently, ok most people. but he is still maintaining his popularity being liked and hated.
and that translates into a lot of money for everyone or do you want to refute that?
I need no thanks for asking, as I was asking for you to clarify your statement no one was watching him? If indeed he is not playing for any team at the moment, then that puts your snide remark about no one watching him as being nothing more than trying to denigrate him based on nothing more than your own personal feelings. Which you are indeed entitled to, but, not to the point of casting malice on him without just cause.
What is with you people making up your false bullshit?
Where is the issue of viewership in my comment?
This is what I responded too. Is there anything in there about the viewership of the NFL or is it about Kaepernick?
Then you start babbling about the different devices you can use to watch the NFL with like you're Bubba from Forrest Gump.
Now you want me to refute that he isn't making any money? Sorry can't help ya.
Have a good night.
You are correct my intended reply was to this person
XDm9mm
and i hit your reply button.
and you are also correct that KAEP or both of you are correct that he has not played for a while. And Raven did not know that, but to the point of viewership and so on. it doesnt make of break the NFL and yet Kaep is still drawing as much attention not playing as he did when he was. and after yesterday, he appears to be back in the mainstream again.
That makes no sense at all. Do you stand for the NA at home when it's played on TV?
Like Kim Davis did?
Did you ever consider that there are many people who support Kaepernick and think that there is a serious racial problem in the US that is not being sufficiently addressed?
excellent point !
there were many conservative minded posters who applauded Kim Davis while she protested at her job and not on her own time and dime . Yet, some of these same people are upset with Colin Kaepernick .
Great....go support him. Someone stopping you?
What the hell are you talking about. He's not running for office. He's not in a broadway show (yet). "Go support him" makes no sense. I can support his right to protest without "going" anywhere.
Do you think Nike will pay her also for standing up for her beliefs?
She was already paid by gullible bible-babbling Christian extremists for her choice to violate the US constitution, something which none of these NFL players have done.
No, she already got paid by the state of Kentucky and, the KKK didn't she?
What religious rights of hers were threatened? Her goal was to take away the equal rights of others because of her hypocritical religious beliefs. Nobody forced her against her will to be a country clerk.
I used that situation to prove that not even their own co-workers are immune to the overt racism of many police officers. If their own own coworkers aren't immune then the citizens are also subject to an officer's racism in how we are treated, or do only white people have a constitutional guarantee of equal rights?
boy you guys get upset easy.
Calm down, your hero is sacrificing everything for his beliefs....
Of course Kim Davis should follow the law and leave her personal shit till off the clock.
I'm not upset. I don't tolerate racism and bigotry.
I don't have any heroes.
It seems that conservatives pay lip-service to equality but they still believe that some people are more deserving of equality than others.
Based upon your many snide comments to others, it would seem that it is YOU who is getting upset very easy.
Why not take your own advice and calm the snarky rhetoric. Don't put the blame on others for the crap you yourself are stirring.
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Don't get Raven pissed, Sunshine, it scares me!
Sorry. Usually just a self-righteous holier than thou rant follows, not too painful.
Not near as bad as your own. Take a long look in the mirror before you point the accusing finger at others, especially, when you are not setting the best example yourself.
Never claimed to be, would never want to be. But, one does not need to be a moderator, or pretend to be one, when they see someone posting the kind of snark that gets the crap pot stirring going, then blame it on others. It does then to backfire when your own words come back to roost where they began.
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LOL!!! Voice of experience?
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You should also take your own advice, Raven. Especially when it comes to snide and/or dismissive remarks to others.
<marks one off the bucket list>
Why don't you? Do you hate the constitution that much?
You do realize NO BODY is forced to pay for anything. Season ticket holders are asked to renew each year. And nobody is forced to watch tv at the time the anthem is played.
i get your point but i also am suggesting that choice does exist for all.
People have a reasonable expectation not to see a protest when purchasing a ticket.
If the NFL wants to be in the protest business, then hire a hundred Kaeperniks instead of football players and quit deceiving their customers.
well 1st off i am season ticket holder so i know exactly what goes on at the game first hand. And i have enough tolerance for 5 minutes to agree to disagree with someone that wants to remind those of us that "fellow citizens are not being treated equal" . and again no one made ANYONE PURCHASE a ticket its a choice......
wow that reads like a temperament problem. for shits sake this didnt sneak up on you and go "booo".
what i find so interesting with folks like you, is not your need to express how you feel. But to wonder about do you get the point that between sundays(monday tuesday wednesday thursday friday saturday) racist minded bad acting cops have killed citizens.
So if it is not illegal for this very large private organization to not have a policy and it is a right as an american to protest, i am not sure what business it is to suggest how they run their own business.
Now I can agree that your feelings about how they run this business you dont agree with, thats fine. But to suggest that this business is one dimensional because of a few players choice to protest seems a bit off base.
So I should protest anything I don't like?
I did not seed this in order to have a bitch fest .. I posted it as food for thought, reevaluate and see if there is not middle ground that can be discussed .. beginning to look like I may have been naïve in my thinking ..
What is happening in the United States is that 'we' are unable to work together to reach a compromise on what is best for the nation, and we the people - the protest during the anthem is but a mere dot on the big picture of what is happening .. divisiveness has become a cancer..
i completely agree - on both sides. It's been only getting worse over the years (not just since Trump in my opinion)
On this we agree .. it is not something new, it is just being magnified by the Hubble telescope at this time...
and you will now present those facts - including ones where Obama did nothing but attack law enforcement ( so you better not find any comments he may have made that supported law enforcement, or that might ruin your premise ) ... oops.. i found something that contradicts your statement that Obama only attacked law enforcement: - i guess next time you better research and gather the facts before you try presenting something claiming facts will support your fault premise .
Soooo, attacking law enforcement makes things better? Got it.
What middle ground is there to find for a cop hater who has been elevated to the level of hero?
I lived with a cop for years, they are pigs!
There can never be middle ground.. when everyone fits everyone else into some neat lil category .. I find that when someone wants to force me into a round hole, I become square quite quickly...
Elevated to hero? What difference does that make, he may not be your kind of hero - yet others see him that way, do I agree no .. but those I personally view as my heroes would probably not make the list of those you think are heroes .. so the middle ground then become live and let live...
-to me anyways...
Just because he does not like cops does not make him a lesser human being.
There are a good many cops I am not fond of, those that are corrupt, those who abuse their badge, those who use truly excessive force, those who are gun happy, those who engage in racial profiling out of their own prejudices, those who turn a blind eye to those in need of help, and the list goes on.
And my Father was a police officer for over 15 years. He also detested cops like those, because they no only shamed their own badge, but, those of other cops who did their best to carry our their duty to the public with a manner to insure their safety, and did so with respect. He lost two partners as a police officer, one who was shot while dealing drugs on the side, sand three while serving as a Texas Ranger in a shoot out with cattle rustlers. He knows what it is like to see both the good and bad in the world of law enforcement.
But, detesting bad cops does not mean people are lesser human beings worthy of disdain.
Kaepernik fit himself into his own box, He alone is responsible for his actions and the message he has decided to send. I thought the seed was about him not everyone else.
You don't think that others have tried to portray him as a hero for kneeling? What courage did this take? Certainly the intent of the Nike ad was to elevate him to one. Poor guy sacrificed everything. /s
I agree with his message, just not his approach in making his message heard...
The seed is about middle ground, and a way for opposing sides to get an honest conversation started...
Let Kaepernick be a hero to those that elevate him, does it personally impact you? My dad is my hero, but I bet he is not your hero … as I said in the beginning, I am having to reevaluate my point of view regarding NFL players taking a knee .. and have said multiple times .. I support the cause, just not the approach...
He only wore those socks at practice. He NEVER wore them during an actual game
You mean Trump? I know his supporters think he's the best thing since sliced bread but, a hero?
Excuse me for having an opinion on it, I thought that was the purpose of this site---you know to express an opinion.
Personal opinion...cop haters should not be elevated to hero status in any form. Also animal abusers like Mike Vick....yeah NFL and Nike tried to make him a hero too.
Am I not entitled to the same thing - you gave your opinion, and in return I gave mine .. it is a 2 way street.
Not sure why there seems to be an issue with me expressing my opinion about others having the right to elevate whomever they choose to .. I have been told .. "things do not have to be pretty, and you do not have to like them" I find those are good words to live by.
Yeah okay .. dog fighting v. civil rights .. damn'd Nike, the bastards are destroying the country!
Yeah, I know, I'd rather praise someone that sets dogs to fighting for profit than watch some guy kneel during the anthem 'cuz he believes unarmed kids shouldn't be shot by cops for the color of their skin.
And, if you can't tell I'm being sarcastic then there's something wrong with you.
You may not care about animals, but I do.
Showing you examples of Nike's true indifference to injustice. Kaepernik and Nike.....two peas in pod.
Mocking animal abuse....not cool.
Sunshine your ignorance is showing - explain to me where I mocked animal abuse .. explain to me where Nike condoned it...
Yes, I could have chosen my wording more carefully .. I did leave myself open for a good old fashioned word twisting, didn't I?
Have a sweet night .. good luck with yourself
Peace!
Damn'd Nike ….. evil bastards this may become my first code violation!
: )
So you choose to attack me for it. They are your words.
Go to You Tube, you will see Nike's ads with Michael Vick after he was convicted of animal cruelty. I don't see why anyone would want to be a part of that and make fun of it either. But again that is a personal opinion others are free to do as they please.
You have a good night also.
Me either Sunshine .. I have no clue why evil exists in this world - I behaved poorly by posting my comment to you as I did .. for that I am sincerely sorry.
We will have to agree to disagree - I love animals and I also love civil rights .. and I tend to get a bit wound up at certain things .. you and I are not communicating effectively at this time.. and my comment did not make that lack of communication go any smoother..
Peace
Thank you Colour, I appreciate your apology. I am sorry for misunderstanding your thoughts.
Civil Rights is important to everyone. I have not denied that police brutality exist. Unfortunately people and companies use it for personal and monetary gain. Which is what Kaepernik and Nike are doing. Social warriors should be willing to point that out and condemn that injustice.
Hope you have a nice day.
All of them, because you chose the wrong one? You do paint with a wide brush, don't you? I beleieve this is one of the problems of our 2018 society. Because you interacted with 'A' and he sucked, 'B' through 'Z' must all be the same way.
I see this with discussions concerneing Cops, Muslims, Israelis, Blacks, Whites, and on and on. At some point, one's personal expereince does not make it true for the entire populace.
Ooo my .. I think everyone else figured out I was being sarcastic ..
and as far as picking the wrong one - mine was a great guy .. it was events like the Christmas party when one officer punched his wife in the face as she was getting into the car .. sending her ass over tea kettle into the snow, with blood running down her face .. AND NOT A SINGLE OFFICER SPOKE UP .. they turned a blind eye and walked away..
I am learning how to use many colours in one broad brush stroke .. you should try it : )
I'm not really sure what middle ground there is. Our society has a real problem with how cops and the justice system treat black folks. The faux outrage by racists like Trump does nothing to help fix that, it simply alerts everyone else that they're rather clueless racists whose personal feelings are more important than dead black folks.
Note that this has been a pattern for a very long time. Whenever and however black folks protest injustice some racist white conservatives will find a way to whine about it. Trump and his supporters are merely doing what George Wallace and Lester Maddox did 60 years ago.
Hey Skrekk
You may be right, right along side everyone else saying (from the other side of the aisle) there is 'probably' no middle/common ground to be reached. Conversation is a 2 way street, that cannot be accomplished without putting aside preconceived ideas like conservatives are evil racist bastard .. there are always evil bastard in the world (from both sides of the aisle) … perhaps leaving politics and party out of the conversation - there could be middle ground found?
Sure you can have a conversation but given the motives of those suffering from white racial anxiety I'm not sure what would be accomplished. Do you think a "conversation" would make Trump or Sessions reverse their decision to drop the DoJ's pursuit of consent agreements with cities like Ferguson or Baltimore?
Not sure I am understanding the use of consent agreements [I know what it means] but perhaps I have missed something? I did not realize anything had been 'dropped' .. I thought there was a review regarding the feds oversight on local police departments - I will have to do some reading on the subject...
Remember how BLM and all these protests got started? The Obama DOJ's approach was to work with these communities to find solutions to the problems. The Trump regime's approach was merely to say "we support the cops" and to cease all efforts at remediation....including the consent agreements the DOJ had already signed with various cities.
It's a fundamentally white supremacist and arrogant position which Trump and Sessions have taken, quite regressive and useless too. These consent agreements aren't trivial - they take months or years to establish and so a lot of work will now have to be redone once an ethical president is again in office.
Thanks for the links .. I searched and saved articles to read later - yours are added to the list ..
I am only doing a drive by - I have tomatoes simmering in a pot so I can start making spaghetti sauce .. make big batches and then can 'em .. I have some skill in the kitchen .. [smirk] - and have banana bread in the oven...
I am trying to be responsible to the thread I started .. but all I can do is bounce in and out .. which is not very responsible of me : (
Dammit, now I want to eat dinner with you.
HA! come on over, forgot (not so) lil man was going to a football game tonight - house smells good...
I've got a zucchini casserole in the oven that smells good, taking it to bunco tonight. I used to cook more, now I can't even think of what to make most of the time. Now I'm starving hoping I can wait til I get there.
Have a sweet night .. I grilled zucchini last night - gonna miss my garden!!
Careful, I may take you up on that.
I have to agree with you, on both sides of the fence. These articles all seem to turn intot he same thing, then insulting each other. There used to be a line people generally did not cross, and they did that becuase it would violate good manners of a polite society. Now people feel they are experts in everything and need to beat anyone else who disagrees with them over the head until they capitulate.
I've suspected the advent of the Internet being open to everyone has given people a way to voice their beliefs, pretty anonymously, where they would never have voiced them 'publicly' before that. It seems to devalue scoiety as no one even realizes what societal norms once were.
Sadly the attacks on Kap, IMO, are really not warranted. It's the 1st amendment folks. Agree with it or don't he is excising a right held by all Americans.
As a vet I may not agree with his method but I will defend his right to protest in the manner in which he is doing it.
BTW, he donated $50,000 to a cause that I'm very involved in and he was there, in person, to help this cause.
Like usual in matters like this we agree. He has a right to protest as he see’s fit and I have a right to disagree with that protest. Which I do vehemently.
Place and time for everything. IMO his was not the place or time for it.
On this, with due respect, I disagree with Boyer.
I have an idea. Rather than protest by kneeling during OUR National Anthem, let him and others who still feel the need to put the word out that they would be kneeling during the coin toss in the middle and on the sidelines of the field. I mean, after all, it would be out there and everyone would know why........................
Yes he does as you do...That is what makes America what it is. IMO, free speech is the cornerstone of our country. Something that I fought for and am a ardent believer in.
Well, he can say whatever he wants now. But, Kavika, you as a former military guy, should understand workplace rules and even the NFL and teams (they are corporations) have work place rules. Would it have been okay if you kneeled during the national anthem, while in uniform, at your military 'workplace'? You and I both know the answer to that.
Thisis the issue I have-he was in his workplace, and violated those workplace rules, for what he believed to be right. No one is saying (at least not me) that he can't exercise his 1st amendment rights, he doesn't neccessarily have a right to do so at his palce of employment. When he was not there, fire away with any kind of stupidity he wanted to characterize as free speech.
Okay everyone .. I have to bounce for a bit - gonna leave this unlocked, as there is some conversation happening … I know I can count on everyone remaining civil with each other, even when disagreeing .. Correct?
Be back soon...
hairy back.
In my best Jimmy Fallon voice …………. EW!
Ok, that's just wrong in so many ways. Let's try this then,
Oooo .. when I was in grade school .. my dad took me, and a friend to see the midnight showing of "Tommy" he actually stayed and watched the movie .. it makes me smile, cuz at the time I could not watch Cheech and Chong movies : )
I thought that might get a "rise" out of you.
That pick reminded me of the movie .. she was such a freak in "Tommy"
I know, it such an "out of character" moment for her and, she pulled it off so well.
hahaha..your are something else. Backpedaling now Raven.
You where being a smartass. [deleted]
Not near as big a one as you have been throughout this entire article. Just admit it. LOL!!
Then why did you ask the question if anyone has been anyone watching him if you already knew he was not playing on any team at present? It really served no purpose at all other than to simply to stir the pot.
The only pot stirred is yours. You seem to be very upset over a simple remark...it will be ok.
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