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Point of view

  

Category:  History & Sociology

Via:  bob-nelson  •  9 years ago  •  18 comments

Point of view

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Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   seeder  Bob Nelson    9 years ago

Both are "true"... neither is true...

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
link   Larry Hampton    9 years ago

Interesting.

I have viewed this map as telling as well.

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser    9 years ago

Bob, I called up the first map, and even zooming in, couldn't read the text. Do you have a link to the original article where it was published? I would love to see it-- but if it's trouble, that's ok.

Thank you!

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   seeder  Bob Nelson    9 years ago

The first is

...

The second is

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser    9 years ago

Thank you, very much! I will go and enlighten my mind! Smile.gif

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser    9 years ago

Wow! I can understand a bit better...

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   seeder  Bob Nelson    9 years ago

Both sides try to have history on their side. The second map includes a three-thousand-year-old image along with more modern ones. The first map mixes personal property and a still-born project and... whatever...

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna    9 years ago

Also important to realize when looking at the first map (sequential series of 6 maps, actually): it shows a yellow area marked "Palestine"-- which keeps shrinking in size. Looking at it, one might assume that that yellow area was an independent country called Palestine, that was governed by "Palestinians".

But "Palestine" was the name of a vaguely define geographical area, not a country (similar to, say "New England" or "Scandinavia". Never a distinct people or nation, and never an independent country).

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
link   Nowhere Man    9 years ago

Escuse me,

NEW ENGLAND is not a "vaguely define(d) geographical area"

It has a very distinct boundary of everything north & east of NY State Including Long Island and the channel islands. (born & raised there and they never let me forget it)

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna    9 years ago

The area of "Palestine" was ruled by the Turks (part of the Ottoma n E mpire)- - then by Britain ("The British Mandate of Palestine").

1. West Bank (the yellow roughly oval area to the right in the last 4 maps): When Britain left in 1948, Jordan seized the "West Bank" -- illegally occupying it then annexing it as part of Jordan. Control passed to Israel in 1967. It was never an independent "Palestine".

2. Gaza Strip (yellow "L" then rectangle on extreme left of the last 4 maps): Seized & occupied by Egypt in 1948. Control passed to Israel in 1967. But in 2005 Israel withdrew completely*-- there's not a Jew in the entire place. Gaza is now the only area on these 6 maps controlled by Arabs (Hamas).

So the large yellow area on the first two maps on the left which are labeled "Palestine" was not an independent country as it attempts to have us believe, but rather a "colony" controlled by Turkey then Britain.

____________________________________________________

*Good article/photos:

Exodus From Gaza
The forcible evacuation of August 2005

J EWShave lived on and off in Gaza for millennia, long before Islam or Christianity were founded, and for many centuries before the concept of a Palestinian nation was born. In the past, others have driven Jews out of this strip of land that hugs the eastern coast of the Mediterranean.

But in August 2005, in a period of just seven days, 21 Jewish communities were forcibly removed by their own government, as Israel became the first country in modern history to relinquish land acquired in a defensive war to an enemy that had not yet made peace with it.

--> LINK

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna    9 years ago

BTW, I noticed something strange on the last of the 6 maps. A minor error. Gaza is a solid rectangle hugging the sea. But on the last map, on the extreme south-west, there's a little chuck rendered in green. Bordering the sea & Egyptian border. This must be a mistake by the artist?

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   Randy    9 years ago

But "Palestine" was the name of a vaguely define geographical area, not a country (similar to, say "New England" or "Scandinavia". Never a distinct people or nation, and never an independent country).

Yet. A two state solution is the only answer.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna    9 years ago

i agree.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna    9 years ago

the channel islands.

Jersey and Guernsey ?

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
link   Nowhere Man    9 years ago

{chuckle} Ye bit of olde english there?

No, not those channel islands, these channel islands....

Plum Island, Gardiners Island, and Fishers Island, which run from Montauk point on Long Island in Suffolk County to Napatree Point, Rhode Island, and Groton Long Point, Connecticut and associated other smaller islands and islets in Block Island Sound.

Interesting in that Gardiniers Island is a privately owned island (2nd largest in the country) and has been held by the same family for 400 years. The original title of ownership is still the original royal land grant from the English crown.

Those channel islands. Smile.gif

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   Randy    9 years ago

Israel is not "incredibly shrinking" It is slowly returning the land it conquered in the 1967 war and is now moving to its orginal UN granted areas. For example, when they gave up the Sinai, it was not their landin the first place, so it is not an example of Israel shrinking. It was an example of giving of invaded land back to it's original owner. People may quibble that there was no real Palestine before, even thouh there were many Palestinans, there is aPalestine now and its not goingawayso Israel must find a way to share the land as in a 2nd state.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   Randy    9 years ago

I meant of course the it is Palestine that is shrinking

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
link   seeder  Bob Nelson    9 years ago

It was an example of giving of invaded land back to it's original owner.

If that is the rule, then when will White America return all the land it conquered from Native Americans?

As for "invaded"... Israel did not start the 1967 war. Israel was attacked. The war ran its course... and Israel won. Israel could have simply annexed the land, as winners have done after every war since time immemorial. (As they did in fact annex the Golan Heights.) Israel did not annex Judea/Samaria because it would be a demographic poison pill, gradually transforming the Jewish state into a Muslim state.

now moving to its orginal UN granted areas.

No. This is false in several ways:

  • There was never a "grant". After WWI, there was a "Palestine Mandate", run by the British (very badly, IMHO).
  • The original "Palestine Mandate" was from the League of Nations, not the UN. And that Palestine Mandate(second map, image labeled "1920")included what is now Jordan.
  • The "UN Partition Plan" of 1947 (first map, third image) was accepted by the Jews. It was refused by the neighboring Arab states, which attacked the nascent state of Israel, but were defeated. The local Muslim population was not consulted, concerning the UN Plan.
 
 

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