'There’s no way to make sense out of the senseless': gunman kills 12 in Thousand Oaks bar

Via:  split-personality  •  one week ago  •  44 comments

'There’s no way to make sense out of the senseless': gunman kills 12 in Thousand Oaks bar
Terrified patrons scrambled for cover as smoke and bullets filled the room. Some hid behind pool tables and in bathroom stalls, crouching as they tried to call and text their loved ones

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



A former U.S. Marine gunner who may have suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder burst into a Thousand Oaks bar packed with college students late Wednesday night, tossed a smoke bomb into the crowd and opened fire, authorities said.

Eleven people were killed, along with a sheriff’s sergeant responding to the scene who was gunned down by the assailant minutes later.

The Borderline Bar and Grill was hosting line-dancing lessons for college students as young as 18 on Wednesday night. Crowds of young people, including parties for two women celebrating their 21st birthdays, were drinking and dancing when the crack of gunfire echoed through the cavernous room about 11:20 p.m.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/there’s-no-way-to-make-sense-out-of-the-senseless-gunman-kills-12-in-thousand-oaks-bar/ar-BBPtbEz?ocid=spartanntp

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Split Personality
1  seeder  Split Personality    one week ago

 A 28 year old USMC veteran whose mother and neighbors were terrified of him, 

a veteran who refused treatment at the Veterans Hospital for probable PTSD, has allegedly killed at least 11 in a bar last night, then killed himself.

This has become so common that many people

are apparently more outraged over the love hate relationship between Trump and Acosta

or the vandalism at Tucker Carlson's house last night.

That's sad.

 
 
1stwarrior
1.1  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @1    one week ago

And since we don't know the facts as to why he did it - what is the purpose of the run-a-round questions?

 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  1stwarrior @1.1    one week ago

1st, the man had PTSD. This is on record. No one with psych issues should be in ownership of a weapon. 

And I got to agree, that the lack of attention to this story says a lot about how obsessed this nation is with trite politics

 
 
Split Personality
1.1.2  seeder  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @1.1    one week ago

Where are there any questions?

 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    one week ago

This story has not been ignored. It's been on the news since 3:00 this morning. 

I agree that the news channels haven't dedicated the air time to this that they have to mass shootings in the past. The bitter truth is probably that it is something like "old hat". 

Plus the PTSD motive is not as juicy as racism or terrorism or homophobia. 

I'm not sure what tv reporters would say about this if they talked about it non stop all day. Back when Columbine happened or even NewTown happened there was more wall to wall coverage because there was some "freshness" to the story. There are no more new ways of reporting a disturbed person slaughtering strangers. We've seen it too much already. 

As far as "trite" politics goes, you are revealing your biases I'm afraid. 

 
 
Split Personality
1.1.4  seeder  Split Personality  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.3    one week ago
I'm not sure what TV reporters would say about this if they talked about it non stop all day

Well I don't know what's on TV in your neck of the woods, but the major networks here in TX have been doing this story

50 minutes of every hour all day.

 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.4    one week ago

This has become so common that many people

are apparently more outraged over the love hate relationship between Trump and Acosta

or the vandalism at Tucker Carlson's house last night.

Oh so you and Perrie were just talking about Newstalkers. ok. i didnt take it that way but i guess i should have. 

anyway, my comment pertains to internet forums as well. 

 
 
Kathleen
1.1.6  Kathleen  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    one week ago

Yes.

 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.7  XDm9mm  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    one week ago

There is no, allow me to repeat that, no, formal diagnosis of PTSD.  In point of fact, the VA has indicated he was never in their health care system "at any time".

However, if one reads the article at this link:

https://www.pe.com/2018/11/08/suspect-who-shot-to-death-12-people-in-thousand-oaks-country-bar-was-marine-corps-veteran-possibly-had-ptsd/

you will find that he was apparently one who has flown under the radar so to speak almost his entire life.

“To me, I always thought he was a kid that had sad eyes,” Drootin said. “He didn’t smile a lot. We’d try to get him to smile and laugh. He was really serious. You couldn’t get a lot of emotion out of him one way or the other.”
 
 
lennylynx
1.1.8  lennylynx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    one week ago

Mass shootings are so commonplace in the Gunited States of Gunerica, I'm surprised they even make the news anymore.  At least this guy reached double digits...barely!

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  lennylynx @1.1.8    one week ago

Maybe this will inspire Californians to pass common sense gun control laws.

 
 
MrFrost
1.1.10  MrFrost  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    one week ago
1st, the man had PTSD.

There are a LOT of people with PTSD that don't go on murder sprees. I have PTSD, shooting up a bar has never even once crossed my mind. 

 
 
Gordy327
1.1.11  Gordy327  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    one week ago
1st, the man had PTSD. This is on record.

This also highlights the need and necessity of evaluating and treating vets after they finish their tours of duty. Healthcare including psychological care seems to be lacking for vets.

 
 
MUVA
1.1.12  MUVA  replied to  lennylynx @1.1.8    one week ago

It is like what goes on in Chicago on week ends and mass shooting  with little coverage.

 
 
lennylynx
1.1.13  lennylynx  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.10    one week ago

I'll bet slapping Trump supporters upside the head has crossed it though! jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
Texan1211
1.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  lennylynx @1.1.13    one week ago

Some folks seem incapable of not condoning violence.

 
 
MrFrost
1.1.15  MrFrost  replied to  MUVA @1.1.12    one week ago
Chicago

You misspelled Florida. 

 
 
1stwarrior
1.1.16  1stwarrior  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.7    one week ago

XD - I also have PTSD but it wasn't diagnosed until after I had my cardiac arrest in 2015.  Seems as though the chemical imbalance 'tween my body and brain have decided I needed to remember shyte 50 years later from my 27 months in 'Nam as a door gunner that I had, I thought, successfully placed in its proper little pigeon hole.  Evidently not.  But, even though I have weapons in the house (Dad's WWII Carbine and my two competition pistols, .22/.9mm), no matter how pizzed I get 'bout something - they ain't comin' out 'less it's to protect my family and/or I from some azzwype who tries to come in uninvited.

 
 
1stwarrior
1.2  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @1    one week ago

Not defending the man, but no one knows, not even all the reporters writing their stories on the event, whether or not he "refused" treatment for his PTSD.  SoCal Vet hospitals are slammed wall-to-wall with returning Vets and they don't have the resources to treat those with PTSD because they are concentrating on the bodily injured.

But, only the Vet clinic and the individual truly know that answer.

 
 
Split Personality
1.2.1  seeder  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @1.2    one week ago

His mother and neighbors were interviewed and attested to the fact that no one could convince him to see a doctor, whether it was the VA, Kaiser or another hospital.

 
 
1stwarrior
1.2.2  1stwarrior  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.1    one week ago

Had not come across those stories - yet.  But, there are so many stories on the waves now, who knows what's going to come up.

 
 
Ender
1.2.3  Ender  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.1    one week ago

I heard all that too. They were talking about there was no legal recourse for them to do anything. He did not fit any definition to be put away or be forced into treatment.

 
 
Ender
1.3  Ender  replied to  Split Personality @1    one week ago

What is sad is I think people are becoming numb to things like this. So far this year there have been 307 mass shootings.

Nothing is ever done, nor do I think people know actually what to do. I heard he had an illegal ammo attachment on the weapon.

Seems to me that this guy should have been getting mental health therapy. It seems like another way we fail our veterans. Though I also read that he refused treatment.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
1.3.1  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Ender @1.3    one week ago
Seems to me that this guy should have been getting mental health therapy. It seems like another way we fail our veterans. Though I also read that he refused treatment.

I don't think it would have mattered anyway since Trump rescinded Obama's mental health EO on guns.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-sign-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-illnesses/

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
1.4  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Split Personality @1    one week ago

SP, what I see here is a "good guy with a gun" became a "bad guy with a gun" when he walked into the bar and, killed eleven people. Now, some folks will say "But, he wasn't a good guy with a gun because he killed those people", fact, until he went into the bar with the intent to kill those people he was legally able to buy any gun he wanted, fact, he was a decorated Marine apparently with a good service record, ie, being decorated and, had only one minor infraction with the law, no legal reason to pull his guns back then.

Now, at the bar there were two good guys acting as security guards, they both got killed, a sheriffs deputy arrived and, charged in, he was a good guy with a gun and, he was killed, the only reason this guy stopped was because he shot himself. So, were are the "good guy with a gun" advocates today, talking about Acousta.

 
 
Split Personality
1.4.1  seeder  Split Personality  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @1.4    one week ago
talking about Acosta

No, bitching to the skies that there's not enough news coverage on the internet by the "MSM"

covering Acosta being 'rude' or Tucker Carlson's home being vandalized.

Because of bias, etc

 
 
dave-2693993
1.4.2  dave-2693993  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @1.4    one week ago
fact, until he went into the bar with the intent to kill those people he was legally able to buy any gun he wanted, fact, he was a decorated Marine apparently with a good service record, ie, being decorated and, had only one minor infraction with the law, no legal reason to pull his guns back then.

Galen, IIRC about this scenario, it is only possible and appears to be legal because of a disagreement between some, maybe most States and the Feds. In reality

The last I heard, the Feds have the fields in the NICS database for reporting psychological problems assessed by the medical community, but rarely is this information uploaded to the NICS.

Without the certain/most states uploading this information to NICS it becomes impossible to flag a potential gun purchaser and legally stop the purchase.

Of course, a proper diagnosis would be required as well.

There are certainly people who should not have guns.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
1.4.3  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Split Personality @1.4.1    one week ago
No, bitching to the skies that there's not enough news coverage on the internet by the "MSM"

covering Acosta or Tucker Carlson's home being vandalized.

Because of bias, etc

SP check the record, I haven't mentioned Acousta until this piece and, you are the one who first mentioned him here, I was simply answering your post. 

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
1.4.4  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  dave-2693993 @1.4.2    one week ago

I covered this below, we did have the means until Trump rescinded Obama's EO.

 
 
Split Personality
1.4.5  seeder  Split Personality  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @1.4.3    one week ago

It wasn't in reference to you personally,  rather my experiences this morning on several other seeds...

 
 
dave-2693993
1.4.6  dave-2693993  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @1.4.4    one week ago

That rule opened a different path which Trump closed. This was to allow cross talk between the SSA and NICS.

The original rule was and still is in place. This is more synonymous to the State like FBI RAP Back reporting where the State subscribes to an upward data submission to the FBI on an individual and then in the event of a "hit" anywhere in the country (for states subscribing to the service), the FBI sends the appropriate notification back to the state on the individual.

In the case of the NICS database check, the "hit" the the required data for the required gun purchase background check.

The states, for the most part do not provide the mental health data to NICS when a change in someones mental health condition occurs.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
1.4.7  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  dave-2693993 @1.4.6    one week ago
The states, for the most part do not provide the mental health data to NICS when a change in someones mental health condition occurs.

Which is what Trump got rid of when he rescinded Obama's EO,

What's True
President Trump rescinded a rule that would have provided a new way to enforce existing background check restrictions on gun sales by allowing a transfer of information from one agency to another.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-sign-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-illnesses/

 
 
lennylynx
1.4.8  lennylynx  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @1.4    one week ago

Everyone's a good guy with a gun until they do something bad with it...

 
 
Texan1211
1.4.9  Texan1211  replied to  lennylynx @1.4.8    one week ago

That isn't true. That is why folks on probation and parole are forbidden to have guns, for the most part.

 
 
dave-2693993
1.4.10  dave-2693993  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @1.4.7    one week ago

This is from the Snopes article:

What's True

President Trump rescinded a rule that would have provided a new way to enforce existing background check restrictions on gun sales by allowing a transfer of information from one agency to another.

What's False

President Trump's action did not completely eliminate background checks for gun purchases (by the mentally ill or anyone else).

What was that new way?

Again from the article:

That rule would have given the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which is used for gun sales, access to Social Security Administration data including the names of individuals receiving certain federal mental health benefits.

This is the SSA/NICS cross talk I mentioned in my prior post.

What was originally in place and still remains in place has nothing to do with the SSA/NICS cross talk. That is the states reporting mental health changes experienced by potential gun purchasers  to NICS. This is somewhat analogous to the FBI RAP Back reporting capability.

Unfortunately, the states rarely participate to this level of reporting to the Feds, which is the disagreement I mentioned in my first post.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
1.4.11  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  dave-2693993 @1.4.10    one week ago

Ok

 
 
dave-2693993
1.4.12  dave-2693993  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @1.4.11    one week ago

Thank you for the discussion Galen.

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
1.4.13  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  dave-2693993 @1.4.12    one week ago

Yer welcome. jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
Tacos!
2  Tacos!    one week ago

As if this weren't enough, we also had a fire break out about 2 hours ago. Evacuations already ordered.

 
 
Split Personality
2.1  seeder  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @2    one week ago

and closing 101,

not good,  stay safe.

 
 
MrFrost
2.2  MrFrost  replied to  Tacos! @2    one week ago

Stay safe Taco's. 

 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
2.3  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Tacos! @2    one week ago

Stay safe, I'd hate to lose you, I like the debates......at times. jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
Phoenyx13
2.4  Phoenyx13  replied to  Tacos! @2    one week ago
As if this weren't enough, we also had a fire break out about 2 hours ago. Evacuations already ordered.

i have to agree - please stay safe and out of harm's way.

 
 
Split Personality
3  seeder  Split Personality    one week ago

And very sadly,

as I  suspected it would, this seed about yet another senseless mass shooting has floundered,

while the debate rages on in several seeds whether Acosta is an intern beater

or whether Tuckers front door was actually broken or not.

This discussion is locked, thanks for participating

and good wishes for those involved in the shooting or the wild fire raging in Ventura CA tonight.

SP

 
 
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