'There’s no way to make sense out of the senseless': gunman kills 12 in Thousand Oaks bar
Terrified patrons scrambled for cover as smoke and bullets filled the room. Some hid behind pool tables and in bathroom stalls, crouching as they tried to call and text their loved ones
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
A former U.S. Marine gunner who may have suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder burst into a Thousand Oaks bar packed with college students late Wednesday night, tossed a smoke bomb into the crowd and opened fire, authorities said.
Eleven people were killed, along with a sheriff’s sergeant responding to the scene who was gunned down by the assailant minutes later.
The Borderline Bar and Grill was hosting line-dancing lessons for college students as young as 18 on Wednesday night. Crowds of young people, including parties for two women celebrating their 21st birthdays, were drinking and dancing when the crack of gunfire echoed through the cavernous room about 11:20 p.m.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/there’s-no-way-to-make-sense-out-of-the-senseless-gunman-kills-12-in-thousand-oaks-bar/ar-BBPtbEz?ocid=spartanntp
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A 28 year old USMC veteran whose mother and neighbors were terrified of him,
a veteran who refused treatment at the Veterans Hospital for probable PTSD, has allegedly killed at least 11 in a bar last night, then killed himself.
This has become so common that many people
are apparently more outraged over the love hate relationship between Trump and Acosta
or the vandalism at Tucker Carlson's house last night.
That's sad.
And since we don't know the facts as to why he did it - what is the purpose of the run-a-round questions?
1st, the man had PTSD. This is on record. No one with psych issues should be in ownership of a weapon.
And I got to agree, that the lack of attention to this story says a lot about how obsessed this nation is with trite politics
Where are there any questions?
This story has not been ignored. It's been on the news since 3:00 this morning.
I agree that the news channels haven't dedicated the air time to this that they have to mass shootings in the past. The bitter truth is probably that it is something like "old hat".
Plus the PTSD motive is not as juicy as racism or terrorism or homophobia.
I'm not sure what tv reporters would say about this if they talked about it non stop all day. Back when Columbine happened or even NewTown happened there was more wall to wall coverage because there was some "freshness" to the story. There are no more new ways of reporting a disturbed person slaughtering strangers. We've seen it too much already.
As far as "trite" politics goes, you are revealing your biases I'm afraid.
Well I don't know what's on TV in your neck of the woods, but the major networks here in TX have been doing this story
50 minutes of every hour all day.
Oh so you and Perrie were just talking about Newstalkers. ok. i didnt take it that way but i guess i should have.
anyway, my comment pertains to internet forums as well.
Mass shootings are so commonplace in the Gunited States of Gunerica, I'm surprised they even make the news anymore. At least this guy reached double digits...barely!
Maybe this will inspire Californians to pass common sense gun control laws.
There are a LOT of people with PTSD that don't go on murder sprees. I have PTSD, shooting up a bar has never even once crossed my mind.
This also highlights the need and necessity of evaluating and treating vets after they finish their tours of duty. Healthcare including psychological care seems to be lacking for vets.
I'll bet slapping Trump supporters upside the head has crossed it though!
Some folks seem incapable of not condoning violence.
You misspelled Florida.
XD - I also have PTSD but it wasn't diagnosed until after I had my cardiac arrest in 2015. Seems as though the chemical imbalance 'tween my body and brain have decided I needed to remember shyte 50 years later from my 27 months in 'Nam as a door gunner that I had, I thought, successfully placed in its proper little pigeon hole. Evidently not. But, even though I have weapons in the house (Dad's WWII Carbine and my two competition pistols, .22/.9mm), no matter how pizzed I get 'bout something - they ain't comin' out 'less it's to protect my family and/or I from some azzwype who tries to come in uninvited.
Not defending the man, but no one knows, not even all the reporters writing their stories on the event, whether or not he "refused" treatment for his PTSD. SoCal Vet hospitals are slammed wall-to-wall with returning Vets and they don't have the resources to treat those with PTSD because they are concentrating on the bodily injured.
But, only the Vet clinic and the individual truly know that answer.
His mother and neighbors were interviewed and attested to the fact that no one could convince him to see a doctor, whether it was the VA, Kaiser or another hospital.
Had not come across those stories - yet. But, there are so many stories on the waves now, who knows what's going to come up.
I heard all that too. They were talking about there was no legal recourse for them to do anything. He did not fit any definition to be put away or be forced into treatment.
What is sad is I think people are becoming numb to things like this. So far this year there have been 307 mass shootings.
Nothing is ever done, nor do I think people know actually what to do. I heard he had an illegal ammo attachment on the weapon.
Seems to me that this guy should have been getting mental health therapy. It seems like another way we fail our veterans. Though I also read that he refused treatment.
I don't think it would have mattered anyway since Trump rescinded Obama's mental health EO on guns.
SP, what I see here is a "good guy with a gun" became a "bad guy with a gun" when he walked into the bar and, killed eleven people. Now, some folks will say "But, he wasn't a good guy with a gun because he killed those people", fact, until he went into the bar with the intent to kill those people he was legally able to buy any gun he wanted, fact, he was a decorated Marine apparently with a good service record, ie, being decorated and, had only one minor infraction with the law, no legal reason to pull his guns back then.
Now, at the bar there were two good guys acting as security guards, they both got killed, a sheriffs deputy arrived and, charged in, he was a good guy with a gun and, he was killed, the only reason this guy stopped was because he shot himself. So, were are the "good guy with a gun" advocates today, talking about Acousta.
No, bitching to the skies that there's not enough news coverage on the internet by the "MSM"
covering Acosta being 'rude' or Tucker Carlson's home being vandalized.
Because of bias, etc
Galen, IIRC about this scenario, it is only possible and appears to be legal because of a disagreement between some, maybe most States and the Feds. In reality
The last I heard, the Feds have the fields in the NICS database for reporting psychological problems assessed by the medical community, but rarely is this information uploaded to the NICS.
Without the certain/most states uploading this information to NICS it becomes impossible to flag a potential gun purchaser and legally stop the purchase.
Of course, a proper diagnosis would be required as well.
There are certainly people who should not have guns.
SP check the record, I haven't mentioned Acousta until this piece and, you are the one who first mentioned him here, I was simply answering your post.
I covered this below, we did have the means until Trump rescinded Obama's EO.
It wasn't in reference to you personally, rather my experiences this morning on several other seeds...
That rule opened a different path which Trump closed. This was to allow cross talk between the SSA and NICS.
The original rule was and still is in place. This is more synonymous to the State like FBI RAP Back reporting where the State subscribes to an upward data submission to the FBI on an individual and then in the event of a "hit" anywhere in the country (for states subscribing to the service), the FBI sends the appropriate notification back to the state on the individual.
In the case of the NICS database check, the "hit" the the required data for the required gun purchase background check.
The states, for the most part do not provide the mental health data to NICS when a change in someones mental health condition occurs.
Which is what Trump got rid of when he rescinded Obama's EO,
Everyone's a good guy with a gun until they do something bad with it...
That isn't true. That is why folks on probation and parole are forbidden to have guns, for the most part.
This is from the Snopes article:
What was that new way?
Again from the article:
That rule would have given the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which is used for gun sales, a ccess to Social Security Administration data including the names of individuals receiving certain federal mental health benefits.
This is the SSA/NICS cross talk I mentioned in my prior post.
What was originally in place and still remains in place has nothing to do with the SSA/NICS cross talk. That is the states reporting mental health changes experienced by potential gun purchasers to NICS. This is somewhat analogous to the FBI RAP Back reporting capability.
Unfortunately, the states rarely participate to this level of reporting to the Feds, which is the disagreement I mentioned in my first post.
Ok
Thank you for the discussion Galen.
Yer welcome.
As if this weren't enough, we also had a fire break out about 2 hours ago. Evacuations already ordered.
and closing 101,
not good, stay safe.
Stay safe Taco's.
Stay safe, I'd hate to lose you, I like the debates......at times.
i have to agree - please stay safe and out of harm's way.
And very sadly,
as I suspected it would, this seed about yet another senseless mass shooting has floundered,
while the debate rages on in several seeds whether Acosta is an intern beater
or whether Tuckers front door was actually broken or not.
This discussion is locked, thanks for participating
and good wishes for those involved in the shooting or the wild fire raging in Ventura CA tonight.
SP