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The ultimate human experience

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  hal-a-lujah  •  6 years ago  •  49 comments

The ultimate human experience

A thought experiment:


There is a magical island in the middle of the ocean.  It is a place that may be visited by only one person at a time, and is stocked with enough food and necessities to accommodate two people for up to one month.  You don’t know how long you will be there, you only know that you will be dropped off, you will be picked up sometime over the next four weeks, and nobody else will be there the entire time.


There is one other thing you will know.  The first night you will fall asleep, and when you wake up there will be two of you.  Your duplicate will be a true exact copy of yourself, to the extent that neither of you will know which one of you is original and which was a copy, because you are exactly the same down to the last molecule.  You will have the same exact memories, feelings, tendencies, likes, dislikes, etc., but from the moment you meet you will become two unique people generating two unique futures on this island, with nobody else to interact with but yourselves.  At some random point over the next four weeks, you will wake up in the morning and the other you will no longer exist, and you will be picked up and brought back home.


Imagine what that time with your double would be like.  All the deepest, darkest secrets you know about yourself, and that nobody on earth may know about you, are now known by a companion.  You are free to have conversations that you could never have with anyone else.  You are free to explore yourself mentally, emotionally, and physically, with zero sense of embarrassment or timidity.  It’s not like having an identical twin, because the two of you have no secrets up to that point of meeting one another.  You can each have secrets from that point forward, but you are starting from a purely shared reality.  


Remember that time you were out playing by yourself as a child, had some matches and accidentally lit a building on fire?  Nobody saw you do it, and you never told anyone about your involvement - but your companion knows.  Say you’re a heterosexual guy, but you had a strange sexual attraction to another male that you would never have disclosed to anyone under any circumstances - now someone knows every intimate detail about it.  That bizarre reoccurring dream you have, that is so embarrassing that you would never tell anyone about it for fear that they would draw conclusions about you?  This persons knows about every time it happened.


Only one of you will return home, the other will simply disappear as if they never were in the first place.  You can mark yourselves with a sharpie to figure out which one of you is the one who remains, but does it really matter?  You were the same person up till you met.  How would you feel about losing your double?  Is it possible that you could end up disliking each other?  Is it possible that you could fall in love with yourself?  What would your existence be like when you returned home?


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Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1  author  Hal A. Lujah    6 years ago

Has anyone here ever thought about such an experience?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Expert
2  Perrie Halpern R.A.    6 years ago

Hal,

A question. In your thought experiment, you have a couple of thoughts that both of you would have. Are those specific to this exercise, or just an example?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2    6 years ago

You both begin from a purely shared existence, then diverge into two uniquely thinking people with historically identical minds.  That doesn’t mean you will continue to have the same thoughts, you will just have incredibly similar thought processes.

For instance, I like pepperoni in general, but some days I want it on my pizza and other days I want bacon.  Maybe you will make a pizza, and your companion will want pepperoni and you will want bacon, but neither of you will want pineapple because you have never liked pineapple on your pizza.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Expert
2.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1    6 years ago

Well, first I would like to begin with this. Humor me and watch:

So you are telling me that I know this is me. But so does the other being. IN FACT, both beings would think that they are the real person since they are made up of the same atoms with the same memories. How would either really know, which is the copy? They both could have come to this island (very "Lost" like), thinking the same thing when they meet. Both falling asleep (or so they believe) waking up to find another one of themselves. Both marking himself, too. But as you said, what difference would that make, since which one leaves is rather random. 

I think the question about losing your double would be a relief, since without murdering it (it is an option, with no guarantees, since the dead you could be the remaining you, too), that is the only way you will survive, and I think that is very natural to want to survive.

I am not sure how much you would get to know each other since I think this would become about survival and therefore you would view the other you as the enemy since neither of you knows that your outcome has been determined. As for coming home, I think at first relief would set in that the nightmare is over unless you were dreaming all along. But as time goes by, you might suffer from a combination of guilt, fear that you are really you, fear of it happening again. I think for most people, this would make them very neurotic after the event. 

But hey, what do I know? Remember.. life is but a dream.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
2.1.2  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.1    6 years ago
waking up to find another one of themselves

NO... Please NO.

I hadn't really thought of it like that. 

NO I do not want that experience.

Life's frickin freaky enough sometimes as it is. 

What a shock to the system that would actually be. 

Where would ya even go from there ? 

Hello my name is ?

LOL 

196

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
2.1.3  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.1    6 years ago

Cute and interesting link, Thanks. 

Yep what a shock two of one's self would be.  

I've thought about what it would be like to have a twin, and I'm glad I don't.  

I like being one of a kind. I'm selfish like that. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Expert
2.1.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @2.1.3    6 years ago

Steve,

Well I have identical twins and they don't seem so shocked. Of course, they were wombmates so might be why. 

Two Steves? That would make you squared since you multiplied 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
2.1.5  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.4    6 years ago
Well I have identical twins and they don't seem so shocked.
Born naturally with a twin would be SO different than having one suddenly appear when you are an adult. That would be freaky as Hell !! So, No Thanks !! lol 
That would make you squared since you multiplied 

That'd be a first cause I've never considered myself a square. No matter how hard some people tried to push me into that square hole. 

lol

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.6  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @2.1.3    6 years ago

I like being one of a kind. I'm selfish like that. 

You would return as one of a kind.  You are the only one who would ever meet the other you, and no matter which one goes home they would retain the same memories that you arrived with.  Nobody could detect any difference, because the only difference between the two of you would be a result of the interactions you shared in the privacy of the island.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
2.1.7  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.6    6 years ago

You would return as one of a kind.

If I knew in advance the "rules" of the experiment. That it was going to happen and how long it was to last and that in the end I would leave as one. That would definitely change the experience from the very start.

IF I didn't know, and I woke up to two of me I'd fuckin freak out.

I'd think I'd go batshit crazy and would probably want to seek professional help. Stuck on an island I don't know what that would do to my mind if I had No idea of the experiment and instead thought that was some how just my new unfrickin unreal reality. 

Shock city !!! 

In reality, I've seen a few really freaking out of this world shuff already. I'll never forget it. It was freaky then and still is. 

I dont think I'd want to undergo your experiment, especially unknowingly. Knowingly, it would be weird enough, unknowingly it could be disastrous. 

Thanks for sharing this though, It makes ya think outside the box.  

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.8  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @2.1.7    6 years ago

My intention was always for the participant to know as much as possible about the parameters of the experiment.  The only unknown is what day it ends.  You would never get to sleep if you knew it was the final day.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
2.1.9  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.8    6 years ago
You would never get to sleep if you knew it was the final day.

I dont know that I'd sleep real well the whole experiment.. two of me... No thanks.

I'm enough damn trouble all by myself to deal with on an ongoing basis.  I barely handle it now....

lol 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.10  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @2.1.9    6 years ago

True enough.  Sleep would be a constant problem.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
3  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu     6 years ago

Interesting scenario Hal.

As a person who has lived alone for much of my adult life. My island is my home. I have spent enough time alone with myself I know I’d be OK doing it on an island. One month…..LOL  try 30 years plus. Also, There is always two of me anywhere I go.  Myself and my conscience. We interact constantly.

I know I know myself very well now and have for a long time, I’m happy with what and who I am and have few regrets about the part of my life lived. I didn’t need a doppelganger to find me, it’s inside me.

For many people I’ve known though even being alone for very long at all bothers them and few that more than a few moments alone to them seems like an eternity. My brother for instance always at least needed a radio going and/or others around much more than I did. So, an exercise like this may be a little harder for people like that, a month could be a long time.  I’ve spent years on my island and I find it a nice place to live. I’m not looking to take on any more islanders either so ….

My real question is, Is there a $50,000.00 prize at the end like on survivor ?

LOL

If so Send my check to : ………….

lol

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.1  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @3    6 years ago

There is always two of me anywhere I go.  Myself and my conscience. We interact constantly.

You are not unique in that respect, as we are all sentient human beings.  I’m talking about another physical you, that you can physically and emotionally interact with, without you being in control of what they say or think.  There will be no trace of your interactions - what happens on the island stays on the island unless you choose to discuss it later.  Things you kept buried from others in the past you would most likely continue to hide when you return home, but this is your opportunity to discuss them with a thinking person who already knows the truth about everything about you.  

I suppose that is similar to talking to yourself in your head, but it’s not the same thing.  You would get to see see yourself from any angle, physically and metaphorically.  You could finally get someone to check out that hemorrhoid, determine if you really do give the best back massages, and see if you have as much swagger as you think you have.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
3.1.2  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1    6 years ago

I’m talking about another physical you, that you can physically and emotionally interact with, without you being in control of what they say or think.

Still No Thanks, I'm liable to kill myself, even one of me is enough on my island. 

this is your opportunity to discuss them with a thinking person who already knows the truth about everything about you.

Unless they somehow instantly thought differently than I do, I see little difference. Sorry

While I agree this would be an interesting exercise for anyone always around other humans for someone like myself it'd just be more like a vacation without all my toys , so I'll pass, Unless that prize money is real, then sign me up. lol 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.1.3  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @3.1.2    6 years ago

No worries.  The island does not exist, and neither does magical instant cloning technology. It’s a thought experiment, not a sales pitch.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
3.1.4  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1.3    6 years ago
It’s a thought experiment, not a sales pitch.

Got it, to me I feel I've kinda lived there for years but I dont recommend it for everyone.

This experiment for some yes, it may be very enlightening, but I think some folks just couldn't handle a month alone with only themselves. 

They really may kill themselves. 

I knew an alcoholic that when he sobered up and realized he'd trashed his life, he couldn't handle it and committed suicide. 

Some People cant handle the truth, even about themselves. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
3.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @3    6 years ago
Also, There is always two of me anywhere I go.  Myself and my conscience. We interact constantly.

That was my first reaction to this experiment--i.e., that it's already one that a lot of (maybe most) people run throughout their lives.  We're all two versions of the same person:  the one of the immediate present and the one of the memories of the past.  For me the longer this experiment goes the less the current "I" trusts what the past "I" tells me I remember.  I don't think it would be different even under the condition of this thought experiment. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
3.2.1  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @3.2    6 years ago
We're all two versions of the same person:  the one of the immediate present and the one of the memories of the past. 

True but I was actually talking about the voice in my head that some people call their conscience. Cartoons depict it as a devil on one side and an angelic figure on the other. Many religious people refer to it as the holy spirit. 

As far as my memories, I seem to recall the better ones quicker.   

We're all two versions of the same person

I agree I also believe that when we are OK and "balanced" with the two, We are happier and healthier so, being true to myself has meaning to me. I sleep well. 

PS: IMO:  IF "WE" (me+me) had to do a month on an island WE may not want to leave cause we would have improved it to our liking. lol 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
3.2.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @3.2.1    6 years ago
As far as my memories, I seem to recall the better ones quicker.

I wish I could.  One consolation that I create for myself is that I might be making worse of the memory in hindsight than it was at the time.  It will surprise (and no doubt delight) my detractors in the NT community that I wasn't always the perfect person I think I am today (but won't tomorrow).  

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
3.2.3  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @3.2.2    6 years ago
I wish I could. 

My recall changed with time, as I did. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
3.2.4  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @3.2.2    6 years ago

I wasn't always the perfect person I think I am today (but won't tomorrow).  

Growing is good. When we stop wanting to grow, we start to die. 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4  charger 383    6 years ago

It would be very interesting

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
5  Freefaller    6 years ago

I would go one way on the island and really wouldn't care what my doppleganger got up to.  Whoever got off the island in the end wins I guess.

Can't imagine hanging with myself as it seems somewhat boring given that the other would think, act and behave just like I would.  No surprises, no differing points, no new knowledge etc.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
7  The Magic 8 Ball    6 years ago
 What would your existence be like when you returned home?

if no one knows who is the duplicate? which one returns home?

does the duplicate magically disappear also?  if so.... id say the trip would be a bore. I have no unaddressed demons to slay and conversation with someone that much like me would be too predictable.. and hence boring.  

  • have ya heard about this or that...? yepp
  • do ya remember this or that... ?     yepp

if this island has waves? id go just for that... LOL

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
8  PJ    6 years ago

If my duplicate was exactly like me it would be easy peasy.  Me 1 and Me 2 would take advantage of our holiday and go to opposite sides of the island and enjoy our time alone.  Reading, hiking, star gazing and enjoying the peace and quiet.

I wouldn't have to talk about things I regret or that haunt me because duplicate me would already know.  There is nothing me 2 could say that I haven't already said to myself.

I would rather be stranded with either a younger or older version of me.  Then I could give my younger self some advice or my older self could give me advice. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  PJ @8    6 years ago

It’s interesting that some think that it would be boring or frightening.  I suppose they would not qualify for the experience.  I myself would be thrilled to participate, even if the original me was predetermined to be the one who randomly de-materializes.  The other me is identical in every respect other than what unique memories are generated on the island.  You wouldn’t be told when the experience was to end, it could be one day later or up to four weeks later.  

Come to think of it, maybe a less intimidating  experiment would conclude with both minds merging back into the original you, and the clone disappears.  Imagine yourself waking up alone, but with a new set of unique recent memories absorbed from the clone.  While you were cooking dinner one night, the other you was off exploring the island.  You didn’t know what the other you was up to until the other you disappeared.  Maybe the other you had a deep metaphysical experience that pleasantly (or unpleasantly) surprises you.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9  Trout Giggles    6 years ago

At first I thought I would kill myself because I'm grumpy and hard to get along with. But then I thought....let's explore why I'm so grumpy and hard to get along with. This could be the therapy I've always needed. Explore the memories both good and bad that make me, me.

I could see us fighting over ice cream, tho. Sometimes I want whipped cream and cherries and sometimes I just want the hot fudge only.

 
 

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