Guest Donny Deutsch went even further, calling Ocasio-Cortez "extremely dangerous at this point." She "does not know what she is talking about," he said, arguing that the "new fresh progressive faces" like her are going to "hand the presidency back to Donald Trump."

The panel's other guest, Republican strategist Susan Del Percio, agreed, saying Ocasio-Cortez has demonstrated "how little she understands" about economics and unemployment, also arguing she doesn't care about the people she represents because "those people would be getting jobs as well."

Well, to be fair to AOC, she had lots of help from New York's state Senate.

I don't believe anyone is confusing her with anyone who grasps the rudiments of economics.

This was a poor choice for an Amazon HQ anyways.  There are definitely other areas of the country that could use a job infusion more than NYC.  Hadn’t everyone noticed that Bezos only considered sites that were within commuting distance from one of his residences?  It was self serving to begin with.

His company, his choice.

Unless business owners don't have any say in where their businesses locate?

It’s obviously a publicly traded company.  The public is part of the equation when their tax revenues are being impacted by perks offered to Bezos, and their infrastructure is reconfigured to accommodate him.  I know it’s hard for you to resist knee jerk reactions to anything certain people say, but you should seriously consider it.

Where Amazon puts its business is up to them--period.

Some cities would have absolutely loved a business locating to them providing many jobs.

Apparently, not NYC.

The public is part of the equation when their tax revenues are being impacted by perks offered to Bezos, and their infrastructure is reconfigured to accommodate him.

If the plan had gone through, tax revenues for NY City (and NY State) would have increased greatly-- not decreased. 

And the "perks" were not offered to Bezos-- they were offered to Amazon, a publicly-traded corporation. (People have a choice as to whether or not they want to benefit from any future success of Amazon-- they have a choice whether or not they chose to own part of that company and share inits success).                                                                

Thing is, not many cities can handle something the size of what Amazon was looking for, and many can't attract the type of talent Amazon is looking for. Nobody wants to move to fucking Cleveland or somewhere like that.

And people's problem with this whole thing was the sweetheart deal the city and state was giving the world's most valuable company, who is slated to pay $0 in federal taxes this year. 

But there are cities that can, and many would love to have the jobs Amazon would bring.

And paying federal taxes is a whole other issue.

Congress wrote the tax laws that would allow a company like Amazon to not pay any taxes. You can't really fault a company for paying what it legally owes, or in this case, blame them for not paying what they don't owe.

If the plan had gone through, tax revenues for NY City (and NY State) would have increased greatly-- not decreased. 

When large facilities broadcast plans to expand into a tbd location, they do it to be woo’d by the highest bidder.  Whether the regional tax payers themselves are benefiting or not is a function of the terms of that arrangement.  Sometimes they get the shitty end of the stick, by funding enormous infrastructure costs while the corporation gets several years of tax abatement as a gift.

But there are cities that can, and many would love to have the jobs Amazon would bring.

And they are more than welcome to encourage Amazon to build there instead. 

And paying federal taxes is a whole other issue.

The point is Amazon doesn't need the help, they are doing more than okay. Cities and states don't need to bend over backwards for them.

Congress wrote the tax laws that would allow a company like Amazon to not pay any taxes.

Yep.

You can't really fault a company for paying what it legally owes, or in this case, blame them for not paying what they don't owe.

Nope. And I am not blaming them. I paid only what I owed and got back as much as I could, why would I blame Amazon for doing the same? Again, the point I was making is that Amazon is doing just fine, they don't need a lot of help.

Then complain to the officials who offered incentives to them. Then you should probably explain why it would have been a bad deal for NYC.

I don't live in NYC so I don't particularly give a shit. My whole point is cities shouldn't be fools when it comes to things like this. But if they want to be, long as it isn't mine, then they can knock themselves out. Don't make the mistake of thinking I have any kind of stake in this aside for being mildly amused. 

I am willing to bet your city or county gives tax incentives.

I fucking hope so, that will mean this property price will skyrocket if Amazon moves in!

I fucking hope so, that will mean this property price will skyrocket if Amazon moves in!

Weird for you to say that after saying this:

I don't live in NYC so I don't particularly give a shit. My whole point is cities shouldn't be fools when it comes to things like this. But if they want to be, long as it isn't mine, then they can knock themselves out. Don't make the mistake of thinking I have any kind of stake in this aside for being mildly amused.

Hadn’t everyone noticed that Bezos only considered sites that were within commuting distance from one of his residences?

Whoa-- wait a minute!

Bezos may be the world's richest man-- but how many residences do you think he actually has?

 More than 200 cities in Canada, Mexico, and the United States eventually offered  tax breaks , expedited construction approvals, promises of infrastructure improvements, new crime-reduction programs, and other incentives. ^[4]  A shortlist of 20 finalists was announced January 18, 2018

"extremely dangerous at this point."

This kind of crap is dumb whether they say about it Trump or AOC or anyone else. She has a viewpoint - and not an unreasonable one - about crony capitalism. The richest man in the world was going to get a sweetheart deal from the government. Where is the sweetheart deal for average people? There's nothing "extremely dangerous" about that point of view. 

"cheering ... the loss of 25,000 high-paying jobs."

OK, that's unfair.

First, I don't think she's cheering anyone losing their job. She's cheering what I described above.

Second, no one had actually been hired yet, so literally zero people lost a job.

And third, they're not "high-paying jobs." The average Amazon warehouse worker makes $13.50 an hour , which is a little higher than the national average, but in New York, where the cost of living is so high, that's not what I'd call "high-paying." The average warehouse worker in New York makes $14.37 an hour. Or $15.25 an hour, depending on your source.

Stuff like this is why they are called "fake news."

Holy shit.... we find ourselves in agreement, and about someone who claims to be a socialist of all things lol. 

The richest man in the world was going to get a sweetheart deal from the government. Where is the sweetheart deal for average people?

Indeed, I am pretty sure that was just about everyone's big hang up, the massive tax incentives New York had offered the world's most valuable company, who by the way is all set to pay $0 in federal taxes this year. I read somewhere that Amazon's tax rate this year will be something like -1.25%. It is nonsense to pretend like she is dangerous for taking an issue with that. 

First, I don't think she's cheering anyone losing their job. She's cheering what I described above.

I think you're right.

Second, no one had actually been hired yet, so literally zero people lost a job.

The other part about this is they are pretending like Amazon was going to be hiring 25,000 locals, which is total bullshit. Sure, locals would benefit from the construction jobs building and servicing the campus, but other than that you wouldn't see many locals actually being hired for these 25,000 jobs everyone is throwing around. Those are going to be going to current Amazon employees who are either promoted or agree to move, and recent college grads from around the country. 

And third, they're not "high-paying jobs." The average Amazon warehouse worker makes $13.50 an hour , which is a little higher than the national average, but in New York, where the cost of living is so high, that's not what I'd call "high-paying." The average warehouse worker in New York makes $14.37 an hour. Or $15.25 an hour, depending on your source.

On this part I disagree. From what I understand the average salary of the positions they are talking about is like $125,000 a year. Remember this is a second headquarters, not a warehouse. Sure they may build a warehouse as well, IDK what exactly their plans were, but my understanding is most of these would be office jobs. I suppose its a moot point now though. 

The richest man in the world was going to get a sweetheart deal from the government. Where is the sweetheart deal for average people?

Over 200 other  localities competed for this. Why? because they realized they would benefit.

In terms of benefits, Amazon has lost nothing financially -- there are many other localities who offered similar perks. 

The big beneficiaries of  the deal would be the people of the area-- the YUGE tax revenue this deal would bring would have resulted in many improvements in the area--  NY having the type of  transportation they otherwise couldn't afford, better schools, more schools and therefore smaller class sizes, lower taxes for people,plus jobs, jobs, jobs! 

(And BTW, the vast majority of New Yorkers knew that!)

Over 200 other  localities competed for this. Why? because they realized they would benefit.

Well,they hoped they would at least. Once all is said and done who knows what the financial situation would end up looking like.

In terms of benefits, Amazon has lost nothing financially -- there are many other localities who offered similar perks. 

But that is only part of it. The other part is, can these localities actually handle a project this size and will Amazon be able to attract the types of employees they need? Shithole Mississippi can offer Amazon a 0% tax rate for the rest of time but Amazon won't build it there because Shithole Mississippi can't handle the campus and the people Amazon will need are not going to move to Shithole Mississippi. 

The big beneficiaries of  the deal would be the people of the area-- the YUGE tax revenue this deal would bring would have resulted in many improvements in the area

Except for those who are priced out of their apartments. Facebook had this effect as they moved in and grew as well. Nothing is ever quite that simple. Now in the long run yeah it probably would be good for the area, if I was a homeowner there I would have been positively thrilled. But for every winner there is a loser. 

NY having the type of  transportation they otherwise couldn't afford, better schools, more schools and therefore smaller class sizes, lower taxes for people,plus jobs, jobs, jobs! 

Far as I can tell the real issue was the incentives package that New York offered. They didn't have to, what these cities failed to realize is that only a handful were ever serious contenders, they didn't have to go above and beyond like New York, just offer a tiny bit more than the other 5 or 6 places. 

Far as I can tell the real issue was the incentives package that New York offered.

"far as you can tell"-- based on what? 

Based on what people were complaining about. But if that wasn't the big issue then whatever, I don't live there so I don't care. 

Based on what people were complaining about

But keep in mind-- those complaining were almost entirely those on the far left politically.

For example, a lot of their complaints was that Amazon is owned bythe richest man in the world. But why should the relative wealth of the owner of a local business owner matter to someone living in the area.?  (Of course to those on the far left, all successful people are usually seen as evil..)      

And anyway, that statement is misleading-- Bezos only owns part of the business-- the rest is owned by stockholders, many of them middle class folks.

The vast majority of new Yorkers were strongly in favour of Amazon coming to NY.

By 56 percent to 36 percent, New Yorkers approved of the agreement between New York and the online retail giant amid ongoing opposition from local leaders and threats that Amazon could back out of the deal, the Siena College poll Tuesday found.

“Even as Amazon is said to be reexamining the deal with New York to locate in Queens, by 20 points New York voters approve of the deal,” said Don Levy, director of the Siena College Research Institute.

"Upstate voters are evenly divided, but suburban voters strongly approve and in New York City, where some local activists have voiced opposition, voters approve of the deal by 23 points." 

But keep in mind-- those complaining were almost entirely those on the far left politically.

Meh.

And anyway, that statement is misleading-- Bezos only owns part of the business-- the rest is owned by stockholders, many of them middle class folks.

Lol oh come on, I cannot take you seriously at this point now. Bezos, is Amazon, period. There is no question about that.  Pretending otherwise just makes me want to ignore you.

t, I don't think she's cheering anyone losing their job

Well, yeah she is... She certainly cheering the lost opportunities for 25,000 people, not to mention 17 billion a year to the state eoconomy. 

Where is the sweetheart deal for average people?

In a state where the democratic governor is complaining that tax revenue was billions short of expectations, necessitating service cuts, who do you think's going to suffer? The average people.

And third, they're not "high-paying jobs.

This isn't a warehouse in Peoria..  Its a corporate headquarters. The average job was $125,000 

She certainly cheering the lost opportunities for 25,000 people

She isn't cheering for that specifically. And besides, they weren't going to be hiring 25000 locals to begin with. Those people were going to be coming from all over the country, and wherever Amazon ends up building, they will still be coming from all over the country. Those 25000 jobs will be created no matter where Amazon builds, and odds are the local community won't actually get most of them. 

This isn't a warehouse in Peoria..  Its a corporate headquarters. The average job was $125,000 

Exactly. 

What a lot of people not familiar with the situation failtorealizeis that first of all-- if Amazon moved there they wouldn't stop osing any tax revenue they're getting now from Amazon's new facility-- because they weren't getting yet as it hadn't been built yet. (Its not a case of them getting revenue that would cease).

One complaint was the large number of workers flooding into the area. But, first of all, in a YUGE city like NY that number of people would only be a tiny % of the population...

But those new people, earning a good salary, have to eat. And shop, And go out for entertainment. And NY has both an income tax and a sales tax. (Due to their liberal government, its got one of the higher tax rates in the country). The amount of tax revenue this would've brought in would've been really large. 

In addition, people earning that sort of salary spend a lot -- on restaurants, clothes shopping etc. Which not only helps local businesses directly (ultimately enabling some to expand-- and hire more workers)-- but don't forget, in NY those businesses pay taxes as well.

the lost opportunities for 25,000 people

Hey, no one is preventing Jeff Bezos from setting up shop in New York. He can still do it if he wants to, but he's more greedy than the market is willing to pay. Is there any question that Bezos can afford it?

I bet a lot of companies smaller than Amazon (I guess that would be everybody) would be happy to set up shop in New York. Where are their generous deals? Why does Amazon need a single penny from the state of New York?

It doesn't matter where they "come from".  They will mostly live in the metro NY area and spend their money there

I am saying that to pretend like those jobs are being taken away from the people of Long Island is complete bullshit. The people of Long Island were never going to see most of them in the first place. 

And third, they're not "high-paying jobs." The average Amazon warehouse worker makes $13.50 an hour,

This was to be a "Second headquarters"-- not a Yuge warehouse. The average worker there was going to be paid $150,000.

I am pretty sure everyone's big hang up was how much the state was giving Amazon in tax breaks. I mean realistically Amazon played everyone for chumps considering there are only a few cities in the country that even have the ability to take on a project the size of what Amazon was proposing. Not to mention there are only a few cities in the country that could attract the kind of talent Amazon is looking for.

Also how many people would quickly be priced out of wherever they are renting in the area? Just a thought.

No worries, Amazon will build it somewhere, they obviously feel as though they need those employees. 

considering there are only a few cities in the country that even have the ability to take on a project the size of what Amazon was proposing.

Your comment is inaccurate. Here are the actual facts:

Amazon announced its plans to build a new headquarters in September 2017, saying that it would house 50,000 workers and spend $5 billion on new construction. ^[3]  The corporation also  invited  governments and economic development organizations to give the corporation tax breaks and other incentives to entice it to their locality.

More than 200 cities in Canada, Mexico, and the United States eventually offered  tax breaks , expedited construction approvals, promises of infrastructure improvements, new crime-reduction programs, and other incentives.

Which leaves me wondering -- why do you feel you know more about the ability of these 200 citie to"take on a project of this size"-- than the people who actually live in those cities -- and run them?

(And the leaders of 200 cities-- who wen tout of their way to offer all those perks to try to get Amazon to locate in their cities?)

Which leaves me wondering -- why do you feel you know more about the ability of these 200 citie to"take on a project of this size"-- than the people who actually live in those cities-- and run them?

Because 50,000 people is a lot of people and requires A LOT of infrastructure, new and improvements for most places. Amazon will not be taking on those costs. Additionally, you have to have room to put those people and their families, and oh yeah, it has to be somewhere that will attract the talent Amazon will be looking for. If I am good enough to work for Amazon (with the jobs they are talking about) then I am good enough to work for Google, Facebook, Ebay etc. etc. If Amazon decided to build somewhere like Columbus Ohio, yeah, I'll go work for any number of other companies instead. That eliminates 90% of the contenders. 

That aside, you act like city councils and mayors are masters of finance lol. They fuck these sorts of thins up all the time. They always overestimate their abilities and underestimate costs. I trust far more that Amazon took the incentives into account sure, but more than that they were looking at the logistics of it more. 

No worries, Amazon will build it somewhere,

Apparently most people here are unaware of it, but they've previously decided to build two new HQs-- they've already settled on building one in Crystal City Virginia. (Close to D.C. and very close to reagan airport). Apparently the people in the area are smart enough to realize the benefits it will bring...

Apparently most people here are unaware of it, but they've previously decided to buildtwonew HQ

That's been news for awhile. 25000 a piece. Va and NYC. The initial proposal was a single campus for 50000 employees though, even with the split, 25000 is still a lot.

they've already settled on building one in Crystal City Virginia. (Close to D.C. and very close to reagan airport)

A desirable location. Not surprising they went with it.

Apparently the people in the area are smart enough to realize the benefits it will bring...

Or they got a better deal that NYC. I don't know all the details of the VA campus. Either way, I don't live in either of those places so it doesn't matter at all to me if Amazon builds or not.

Also how many people would quickly be priced out of wherever they are renting in the area? Just a thought.

That's a fair question. Where are the people who are always screaming about gentrification? Or was this going into an already fancy neighborhood? (and if that's the case, maybe they don't need Amazon all that much)

I only bring it up because I have seen it where I live. The university I work for is expanding, and doing so by buying up properties all around the campus, demolishing the buildings (after evicting the people of course) and building "student" housing or other academic buildings in their place. I say "student" because legally they aren't allowed to make it ONLY student housing, but the rent prices and building rules are so strict that, in reality, only students can afford to live there (thanks to their loans). The aftershock of this is driving up nearby property values, thus rent rates, and further forcing even more people out.

I am not saying Amazon is wrong, or the people backing them are wrong, I am just saying, this isn't exactly a win win for everyone.

Real estate was already going sky high....  

An ‘Amazon Effect’ on Queens Real Estate? Here’s Why Brokers Say It’s Real

nytimes

An ‘Amazon Effect’ on Queens Real Estate? Here’s Why Brokers Say It’s Real

If I'm not mistaken, NY has a pretty high real Estate tax (which is based on a percentage of assessed valuation of property).

When I heard where they were going to put them I immediately wished one of my properties was there. 

Real estate was already going sky high....  

Yup-- which is yet another way in  which Amazon's locating there would'vetremendously increased the tax revenue that the government would collect!

Again, don't forget about all the people who would be uprooted. 

Rent stabilized tenants are protected from sharp increases in rent and have the right to renew their leases.

What do they do for landlords who can't pay rising property taxes?

How would people be uprooted? I hadn't heard of the city planning to use the laws of eminent domain

Take the university that I work for as an example. They want to expand, and they have. They have done so by buying up apartment complexes, small businesses, mobile home parks, motels/hotels etc. Obviously those there are evicted, the buildings torn down or seriously renovated , and new buildings put in their place. So those people are already fucked, but it expands from there. Property values increase, nearby rents increase forcing more and more people out (because wages don't keep up). Personally I don't mind, thanks to my employer the value of the house I am living in went up $30 grand this year alone. I am just saying, when something like Amazon moves in, the people on the lower end get forced out. 

And when a landlord sells, the new company decides they are going to demolish the building and build something for people making $125000 a year, then what? 

And hundreds/thousands of people have to try to find somewhere to live, with no easy answers. 

It is what it is I suppose. Again, I am directly benefiting. 

And when a landlord sells, the new company decides they are going to demolish the building and build something for people making $125000 a year, then what? 

Under NYC rent stabilization laws, if there are rent stabilized tenants , they  cannot be evicted and the building cannot be demolished. (Because NY has always been a very liberal city politically, the laws are heavily weighted in favour of tenants.).

As Democratic Senator Murray said, Democrats have going from protesting wars to protesting jobs.

They are managing to make Trump look the level headed adult in the room. 

Trump just hates Bezos because the guy is actually a self-made billionaire. He wasn't propped up by daddy's money, can buy Trumps life probably 100 times over and can actually get loans from American banks because his record isn't a litany of failure. Trump is mad that Bezos can look at Trump's buildings, his possessions and call them cheap. Trump is mad that if he were to try to grab the check, Jeff would say "no no, I got it, you need the money more than I do." But really, Trump hates Bezos because of his bank account and because someone he doesn't like is vastly superior to Trump in every way.

Did he declare multiple bankruptcies and have those same people bail him out? Or did they invest in him and get paid back hundreds of thousands of times over? Yes he took loans, of course he did, he was not independently wealthy. But he made good on those loans, big time.

That is the BIG difference between the two. People invested in Bezos and are living like kings, people invested in Trump, and a lot of them went out of business, lost their jobs, or were just out a shit load of money. 

Did he declare multiple bankruptcies

Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. He has had ventures go bankrupt such as his hotel and casino in Atlantic City, I but then six other hotels and casino went broke there also. 

Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy

Yep, just his businesses after he used his business savvy to turn them into piles of shit. 

He has had ventures go bankrupt such as his hotel and casino in Atlantic City

Because he sucks at running things. But what else has he run into the ground? 

rollingstone

The dude flat out sucks at what he says he is good at. The only thing he excels at is getting idiots to buy his bullshit. 

Trump just hates Bezos because the guy is actually a self-made billionaire.

Exactly.

People invested in Bezos and are living like kings, people invested in Trump, and a lot of them went out of business, lost their jobs, or were just out a shit load of money. 

I assume you are speaking of people making  personal loans to him?

But remember, Amazon is a publically traded company. Which means anyone can buy stock in the company.

When you buy stock in a company, you are investing in the company (which is to a degree investing in Bezos).

So Bezos has made a lot of money for a lot of people (all those people who were smart enough-- or lucky enough-- to have bought stock in the company).         

As Democratic Senator Murray said, Democrats have going from protesting wars to protesting jobs. They are managing to make Trump look the level headed adult in the room. 

Well there are some level headed people that predicted the day he announced NY as his new HQ said it would never happen....

That one you could see coming a thousand miles away.....

Ocasio Cortez 'extremely dangerous'?

Honestly.  So new ideas are dangerous?  The best thing to do is simply continue with OIL, Coal?  Ignore the prospects of new innovations, new fuels, different ways to address issues?

Sounds to me, the basic argument here is the fact that perhaps Ocasio Cortez is 'an extremely dangerous threat' to the almost four decades ( ergo ) failed policies of Supply Side Economics.  Concentrated wealth is lazy, unproductive and forces the rest of America to bear the heaviest of burdens.

"Make Trump look level headed."  ? ?  The recent comment by Matt Schlapp, assuming he is accurate, will prove if 'level headedness' ever really applied to the Trump.

So new ideas are dangerous?

Just my opinion-- but I don't think her ideas are all that new. She's a bit further to the left than the center of the democratic party-- but her ideas aren't new. She much more outspoken than many in the party, so she get a lot of attention. Also because she defeated a Democratic "old timer', a member of the establishment, which was a surprise. (He  got over-confident so didn'y think he could be defeated. (Are her ideas any newer than, say, those of Bernie Sanders"? I don't know).

The dangers of Global warming? The first person I remember bringing up that issue in a big way was then presidential candidate Al Gore (ran for president in 2000).

Actually she reminds me of myself when I was that age-- very, very idealistic-- but also very, very naive. 

Her outspokenness makes headlines (plus, of course, the Republicans love her because they believe she proves the points they are trying to make). but she's only one of 435 Congresspersons-- and a freshman ("fresh-person"?) at that.

Using OPM is an art form. I see no incentive to use my money when I can use someone else's. I do it every chance that I get and plan on continuing doing it far into the future.

It's the American way. 

Using OPM is an art form. I see no incentive to use my money when I can use someone else's. I do it every chance that I get and plan on continuing doing it far into the future. It's the American way. 

Oh god yes, Our entire economy is based upon it.....

Anyone buying a house does it....... The entire Stock Market is based upon it leveraged at 10%.

100% agreement my friend..... 

The american way, buy now pay later.....

Using OPM is an art form. I see no incentive to use my money when I can use someone else's. I do it every chance that I get and plan on continuing doing it far into the future. It's the American way. 

Actually its the way business works in every country thats not Communist (or some other sort of bizarre totalitarian couintry). People save to start a small business-- but they come up a little short of cash. So they use OPM-- from their friends, relatives-- or even a bank loan. 

Using a bank loan is using other peoples money (until you pay it back).This is by no means uniquely American-- in fact, its even done in Socialist countries.

(Actually investing in a stock is also using OPM....)

AOC is dangerous?  Oh please.  She is but one voice, albeit loud at the the moment.  Her constituents put her in office to be exactly what she portrays...reminds me of the Tea Party, lol!!

Bezos didn't need her approval or anyone elses for that matter.  The business decision was his, he made it.  New York lost an opportunity.  Let's move on...unless one of our members was promised one of the $125K jobs, then I'm sorry.

New York lost an opportunity.

Yes they did, they couldn't give up or let go of their politics, not even for hundreds of millions in tax revenue and thousands of good well paying jobs........

Some people will rather die by their convictions..... (much like Seattle declaring Amazon is the "enemy", causing the move in the first place)

It is their right.....

As it was Bezos right to make said choice....

I think the conundrum of watching union activists and supporters praising the loss of jobs said decision brings is unique....

I guess it wasn't about the jobs for them.....

AOC is dangerous?  Oh please.  She is but one voice, albeit loud at the the moment.

Actually a lot of the opposition came from the NY State Senate.

The Republicans love the fact she was elected (in fact there were many rumours-- I don't know if they were true-- that there was a lot of Republican money contributed to her campaign-- they loved the idea of a "radical" in the democratic party so they could stereotype the entire party as being "Socialist"...)

She, along with terminology usage of 'socialism' and 'progressivism' are the foils...nothing more, nothing less.  Unfortunately, it supports a narrative.  Will it be enough for 2020 to keep the oval?  

Time and voting is the only equalizer we hold.  Hoping we use it wisely.