╌>

What Did Joe Biden Do Wrong?

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  john-russell  •  5 years ago  •  68 comments

What Did Joe Biden Do Wrong?

I am creating this thread for the purpose of giving a place for Trump supporters and/or others to explain to us exactly what they think Joe Biden did in Ukraine that merits the president of the United States intervening , in an election season in which Biden is a contestant for Trump's job, and asking a foreign government to investigate Joe Biden. 

You would think the president could compile a viable case against Biden without dragging the president of Ukraine into it IF Biden had done anything wrong. 

Trump is in trouble now, by anybody's measure. He is likely to be impeached by the House.  It would seem that if he has reliable information about Biden's wrongdoing he would pile the relevant papers on his desk for a tv show like he did in the '16 campaign when he piled up papers for the camera that were supposed to represent the complexities of his tax returns.  So let's see Trump put his cards about Biden on the table. 

Of course that won't happen because Trump has no idea what Bidens supposed crimes are. Trump just saw something on tv that appealed to his sense of inner grievance and he decided that he wanted to make a "federal case" out of it. 

"Investigating" Biden in Ukraine would give Trump the campaign talking point that Biden must be guilty of something because even another country thinks Joe Biden is dirty. It is a blatant smear attempt. 

Why hasnt Biden been investigated in the U.S. in the 2 2/3 years Trump has been president? If he did something so heinous in Ukraine in 2016 that uncovering it is worth (to Trump)Trump being impeached, why didn't Trump have his Justice Dept.  or the U.S. Congress (Trump allies controlled both branches of Congress for the first two years of his presidency and could have held hearings on Biden any time they wanted) open probes of Biden's activities? 

The obvious answer is that Biden wasnt running for president in 2017 or 2018. And he wasnt leading Trump in all the head to head polls. 

So, Trump supporters, please justify Trump's call to Ukraine demanding they investigate Joe Biden. What are the FACTS that justify such a blatant intrusion into the 2020 election?  Is Biden smuggling briefcase nukes to ISIS?  Helping ANTIFA develop a new plague virus to dump in the nation's water system? Surely it must be something like that, right? 


Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
[]
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  author  JohnRussell    5 years ago

If you know of evidence that Biden did something horrible in Ukraine, now would be the time to post it. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
2  Nerm_L    5 years ago

The Obama administration (with support from Europe) directly meddled in the political affairs of a sovereign country.  And have bragged about doing so.  

It's not so much about right or wrong; all of this is about the double standards employed by Democrats.  Democrats have used their investigative authority in Congress to pursue political gain.  Democrats have been using threats of subpoena for the sole purpose of digging up political dirt.  The subpoenas have been very broad non-specific demands to scrutinize everything based upon innuendo, contrived circumstantial conspiracies, rumors, gossip, and media perjury traps.  Trump is only doing what House Democrats have been doing.

How dare Trump even try to investigate any Democrat based on innuendo, contrived conspiracy theories, rumors, gossip, and media perjury traps?  That's an abuse of Constitutional authority?  Really?  Isn't that what Democrats have been doing?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @2    5 years ago

So , in your opinion, investigating Biden would be entirely "revenge" for some mistreatment Trump feels like he has suffered at the hands of his enemies? 

You do remember that Trump literally implored Russia to hack into an American citizens private emails (H Clinton) , dont you? 

And that was at a time when it was all over the news that Russia was strongly suspected of hacking the DNC and passing the DNC emails onto a third party for distribution. 

No one "witch hunted" Trump. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.1    5 years ago
“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Trump said. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”
Show me where he is "literally imploring" Russia, or anyone for that matter to hack into anything. 

Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself. 

The context, at the time Trump made his statement, was that Russia was strongly suspected of hacking into the Democratic National Committee computers.  That fact was in fact the reason Trump commented on Russia that day at all. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
2.1.3  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    5 years ago
So , in your opinion, investigating Biden would be entirely "revenge" for some mistreatment Trump feels like he has suffered at the hands of his enemies? 

No, it's not about revenge.  That idea may appeal to Democrats' passive aggressive tendencies but the politics is actually more straightforward.  Democrats defending Biden also forces Democrats to defend Trump.  Conversely Democrats impeaching Trump also forces Democrats to impeach Biden.  That's how the politics of the situation are playing out.

You do remember that Trump literally implored Russia to hack into an American citizens private emails (H Clinton) , dont you? 

And you do remember that Clinton indicted Trump for collusion with Russia before Trump made that request, don't you?  Where do you think all of this came from?  Everything leads back to the Clinton campaign.  

Clinton alleged that the Trump campaign was directly involved in hacking the DNC and publicly disclosing the Clinton campaign's emails.  The whole affair concerning Russian hacking was about public disclosure causing political damage.  The content of the Clinton campaign's emails were politically damaging.  And Democrats have been attempting to use public disclosure to damage Trump as a rather obvious means of political revenge.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.6  author  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.4    5 years ago

When Trump spoke about Russia finding Hillarys emails his comments were in the immediate context of Russia being accused of hacking the Democratic National Committee. 

If you cant see the relevance of that when evaluating Trump's ask of the Russians then I cant help you any further. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.8  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Release The Kraken @2.1.5    5 years ago

Hold onto your tinfoil hat. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.9  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Release The Kraken @2.1.7    5 years ago

The Mueller indictments of the 12 Russians explain in great detail exactly how they did it. 

You live in an alternate reality created by years of taking Infowars and other conspiracy sites seriously. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.13  author  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.11    5 years ago

One minute the news is that Russia may have hacked the DNC, and the next minute Trump is onstage suggesting the same be done to Hillarys personal emails, and you think the context of the time is not relevant? LOL. 

His comment was a direct result of the news that Russia was being accused of the DNC hack. 

There is nowhere else to go with this conversation. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.16  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Release The Kraken @2.1.14    5 years ago
 zero evidence Russia hacked anything but the minds of democrats.

Mueller is a Republican. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.17  author  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.15    5 years ago
His comment was of an incident that had PURPORTEDLY PREVIOUSLY occurred per your own words.

Huh?  Trump was suggesting a continuation of the activity.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.20  author  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.18    5 years ago

News Report : RUSSIA SUSPECTED OF HACKING DNC EMAILS

Trump (immediately afterward) :  RUSSIA, IF YOU'RE LISTENING CAN YOU SEE IF YOU CAN FIND HILLARYS 33000 MISSING EMAILS

-

And you dont see the context?  

Not my problem. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.2  Tacos!  replied to  Nerm_L @2    5 years ago

You have it exactly right.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
2.3  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Nerm_L @2    5 years ago
The subpoenas have been very broad non-specific demands to scrutinize everything based upon innuendo, contrived circumstantial conspiracies, rumors, gossip, and media perjury traps.

That's rich coming from the right who fantasize about some elusive "deep state" and are demanding, with the threat of withholding military aide, that foreign governments investigate their political rivals with ZERO evidence of any wrongdoing. I have yet to hear anything concrete against the Biden's. All they have so far is Joe was VP and son worked for a company in Ukraine. All the "but Hunter was overpaid so it must have been something nefarious!" is pure conjecture.

As for the Obama administrations interactions with a FUCKING ALLY of the United States and member of the EU was exactly what a friend of western democracy should have done. We helped them in their effort to get rid of the piece of shit puppet Putin had installed for his own benefit and supported free and fair elections. We should be proud of that. Now we have a worthless shit stain in the oval office doing Putin's bidding by withholding funds from a country that is having to defend itself against Russian aggression and at the same time Trump and cronies are trying desperately to undermine the facts of Russia attacking our elections which everyone accept those with their heads firmly stuffed in Trumps voluminous ass know isn't in question.

Trump is only doing what House Democrats have been doing.

Bullshit justification. First, it's not at all what house democrats are doing, and second, trying to claim breaking the law is justified because you think someone else is doing the same is pure worthless smarmy shit logic from those with no spines of their own.

media perjury traps?

[deleted]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4  author  JohnRussell    5 years ago

A lot of this, if not all of it, goes back to Trump's penchant for believing conspiracy theories. 

Not surprising from the guy who sent non existent detectives to Hawaii chasing a conspiracy theory that could have been disproved with a simple phone call to the governor's office. 

Trump has always been a loose cannon in terms of conspiracy theories and now he is trying to inflict his own personal disbeliefs of reality onto the rest of us. 

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
6  PJ    5 years ago

He served as VP to a black man. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
6.1  bugsy  replied to  PJ @6    5 years ago
He served as VP to a black man.

So?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7  Tacos!    5 years ago
explain to us exactly what they think Joe Biden did in Ukraine that merits the president of the United States intervening

It may be nothing or it may have been something. At minimum, though, we are talking about action taken by the Vice President in his official capacity as Vice President. We're not talking about some secret personal affair, private banking, or social connections - the kind of stuff we commonly refer to as "dirt."

No, we are talking about something that - right or wrong - is 100% subject to public scrutiny because Biden was an elected official acting as an elected official. The people have a right to know whether or not he did his job in a way that was corrupt.

This is how "conflict of interest" and corruption cases work. If you see something that looks bad or shows even the appearance of a possible conflict, it gets investigated. This happens all the time. Heck, it's been happening to Trump since before he was elected. Here, it appears that Biden may have used his influence as Vice President to benefit his son professionally and/or criminally. We know Hunter was making a lot of money doing something for which he apparently had zero qualifications and we know that Joe got a high ranking foreign official fired.

I can't imagine Trump getting someone like that fired in another country - no matter the reason - and it not becoming a huge scandal.

So, I have no problem with Biden's actions being investigated and neither should you.

I do think the normal course of such an investigation would start in DOJ or Congress, and if it didn't, I wouldn't have a problem with the president prompting DOJ to investigate. Here, the president indicated that he intended to involve the Attorney General at some point. That's a step in the right direction, at least.

Where this gets weird is the president leading with his personal attorney. Personally, I don't think Rudy Giuliani should be involved at all, but I don't see how doing so is grounds for impeachment of the president. It might be outside the normal bounds of protocol, but it hardly qualifies as "high crimes and misdemeanors." Trump was elected, in part, because people understood he would probably ignore protocol a lot. Nevertheless, I think if Giuliani is going to be dealing with foreign governments, he should be accountable to Congress in some way.

As to involving the Ukrainian president, I think that's reasonable. What Biden did, by his own admission, was a diplomatic event, and so having Trump pursue the matter diplomatically is justified. In fact, it strikes me as just good manners to be talking to the Ukrainian president before investigating something in his country.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Tacos! @7    5 years ago

All those words and you forgot to mention that Biden is Trump's election opponent, running for the exact same office Trump is, and leads Trump in all head to head matchups. 

You forgot the most relevant facts of all. 

The president of the United States misused the power of his office to seek discrediting information about his election opponent from a foreign country. 

Which is why he is being impeached. 

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
7.1.1  PJ  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    5 years ago

They seem to be allergic to the truth and to facts. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.3  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    5 years ago

So because Biden was the sitting Vice President when the alleged quid pro quo of Biden for his son went down, and now Biden is the "primary" opponent of Trump (I bet there are 18 other candidates that think otherwise), that makes him off limits for investigations into corruption, but Trump is open to impeachment because he is the current sitting President? That's cray cray lib talk.

So, by that logic, there should have never been a Mueller investigation because Trump and Hillary were major opponents when Hillary paid a foreign agent to dig up dirt against Trump to help her campaign. That fake dossier was the basis for the Mueller investigation.

One of the things that makes me laugh about the current democratic clown bus is that some of them are saying they do not need to be making comments about a fellow democratic contender, but I can guarantee that if the primary boils down to Biden and one of those that make that type of comment, the other will certainly bring up Biden's Ukraine past. They won't be able to help it.

Difference between Trump and Biden? Biden is on camera saying he threatened the Ukrainian President with US funds unless he fired the prosecutor for looking into the energy company that "coincidentally' had Hunter Biden on their committee.

There is no proof of Trump offering anything for anything from any foreign leader.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @7.1.3    5 years ago
Biden is on camera saying he threatened the Ukrainian President with US funds unless he fired the prosecutor for looking into the energy company that "coincidentally' had Hunter Biden on their committee.

I dont suppose it bothers you, but that statement is completely false. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.5  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.4    5 years ago
but that statement is completely false. 

How so, John?

Go ahead and tell us how you see the context of his brag.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    5 years ago
Biden is Trump's election opponent, running for the exact same office Trump is, and leads Trump in all head to head matchups

Sure it does, and I have no problem examining what Trump has been doing. Still, Biden should not be immune from investigation simply because he wants to run for office.

The president of the United States misused the power of his office to seek discrediting information about his election opponent from a foreign country.

Or: The president of the United States used the power of his office as only he could to seek truthful discrediting information about his election opponent from a foreign country where his alleged misdeeds as a civil servant took place and the leadership there would be in the best position to help with the investigation.

Which is why it's too early to say if he should be impeached.

And anyway, he isn't being impeached yet because the House has not voted to initiate formal impeachment proceedings. Like they have been doing for almost three years, they dance around and act like they are impeaching him, but they really aren't.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
7.1.7  pat wilson  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.6    5 years ago
Or: The president of the United States used the power of his office as only he could to seek truthful discrediting information about his election opponent from a foreign country where his alleged misdeeds as a civil servant took place and the leadership there would be in the best position to help with the investigation.

You could teach a stretch class.

Seriously, you give trump credit for giving a shit about the rule of law ? Beyond ridiculous.

 
 

Who is online

shona1


73 visitors