Public Safety vs Police Brutality - The Need For A Cultural Change
Change is inevitable, at times instantaneous, which is rare. More often than not it is a long hard-fought battle for justice taking years, decades even centuries.
The Right to Vote for Women was a long, difficult battle against an institutionalized patriarchal culture stretching back tens of thousands of years.
This nation and the world are better off for the sacrifices, dedication, and determination of the Suffragette Movement that shattered the "Glass Ceiling" and freed our "better halves" from their bondage.
Has it not been the same for Afro-Americans? The difference is the length of time it has taken for humanity to realize that "no one" should be held in bondage by another. In America, slavery has been a blight on this nation and the world for over 400 years.
Gay folks, Transgenders, the LGBT movement have advocated for their "rights," often block by Religious Taboos established thousands of years ago, possibly since the dawn of time.
We had to fight for Child Labor Laws, Safety in the Workplace, Human Rights, Animal Rights, and, now, we are fighting for Public Safety vs Police Brutality.
"We are better than this!"
The process and procedures that we have been using to acquire "peaceful tranquility" for all, has come under scrutiny, and, is ripe for a twenty-first-century reform.
We are an imperfect nation with imperfect people striving for perfection. We can do this! We need Justice for All, an atmosphere of respect, co-operation vs. intimidation.
The first step in that direction is the removal of Donald J. Trump, followed by the recognition that the enemy is not the people, it is the abuse of power.
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It is time to look towards the future. Our nation must evolve or rot.
It is time to look towards the future. Our nation must evolve or rot.
What is justice? Everyone seems to be suffering from selective memory. There were also protests over the shutdown of businesses, public spaces, and government. Yes, we have experienced a government shutdown that no one seems to recognize since that government shutdown wasn't the result of political conflict.
The shutdown adversely affected exercise of rights, freedoms, and liberty. The shutdown was justified by safety. But was the shutdown justice?
But not everyone's safety was protected. The country still needed food processed, packages delivered, shelves stocked, and property and lives protected. Was that justice or was that expedience?
If the idea is only to get what you want when you want it, is that justice or is that just selfish expedience?
What have the protests actually accomplished? There have been demands that people get what they want, when they want it. But no one has stepped up to do the work of governing. There hasn't been any political parties established to actually govern. There hasn't been new candidates pledging to represent what people are demanding. There hasn't been any sort of political challenge to replace the system that everyone is complaining about. The protesters have been demanding that the system pander to their demands. Not surprisingly, that's the only thing that will result from the protests. The protests have changed nothing.
So, what is justice? Is justice nothing more than selfish expedience to get what people want, when they want it?
It appears tRump supporters [removed are devolving.]
Don't demand equality; stand up and be equal. Govern.
If you don't like how the system works then show us how it should work. Don't talk about it; do it.
That's an attitude that won't change anything.
Heckling from the peanut gallery isn't governing.
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Rosa Parks tried that, she went to jail for it. Martin Luther King was murdered. Most people are not willing to go to jail, physically assaulted, or even killed by choice.
Gaslighting won't conceal that Keisha Bottoms is mayor of Atlanta, not Donald Trump. Rayshard Brooks was not killed by Federal law enforcement. Rayshard Brooks was not killed by Wendy's. Rayshard Brooks was not killed by a statue. Rayshard Brooks was killed by Mayor Keisha Bottoms' police force.
Mayor Keisha Bottoms isn't a defender of Georgia's Jim Crow past. Erika Shields, former Chief of the Atlanta Police Dept., isn't an old, white racist that covered for the KKK.
Pandering isn't governing. And gaslighting isn't justice.
All of which has nothing to do with the comment.
Every right we enjoy has cost someone their life, liberty, or justice. We need to find better methods of resolving disputes rather than resorting to CAVEMEN swinging clubs at everyone.
Nerm_L: "Heckling from the peanut gallery isn't governing."
Neither is carping from the sidelines. Police Brutality is real and growing. Violent protests are way out of hand.
There is a need for change on both sides of the issue. Civilian oversight of the Police is woefully lacking, as, is regulating protesting to prevent unlawful acts.
The problem for the perpetually outraged is that understanding why police procedures are what they are requires looking at the situation from the cop's point of view. Cop's are expected to deal with the dark underbelly of society; cops don't have the luxury of only interacting with 'nice' people.
The problems can't be pandered away. If we are going to tell cops how to do law enforcement then we need to understand what the cops are faced with. Convincing ourselves that criminal suspects are victims only allows us to complacently ignore what the cops are expected to do.
Someone being arrested is always in control of the situation. The suspect can choose to submit to being arrested or can choose to become violent. The police aren't responsible for the choice made by someone being arrested.
Whether or not police procedures are appropriate is a valid question. But answering that question needs to consider the cop's side of the issue, too.
Nope, doesn't seem like a lot at all. Some of that is already required in many departments.
A Mayor of a city does own the DEPARTMENT. The Police Chief in most municipality answers the.
It is disingenuous to place the top elected official responsible the action of police OFFICERS who to follow protocol, shot someone in the back, refuse first aide, then, kicked the deceased, as laid on the in a Wendy's parking lot.
The officers involved have been charged and indicted.
Mayor did her job! It's time you do yours!
Do you hold TRUMP responsible for every crime committed by a federal employee?
The public has been considering the POLICE POINT OF VIEW for over 70 years, or, more.
There have been sensitivity, de-escalation, racial awareness training, etc. Yet, still many police officers, too many, have been encouraged by the deranged Commander-In-Chaos to get rough with protestors, and, others that this idiot in the WH think are guilty of a crime at the moment of their arrest.
The POLICE are not the Military.
And, the Lunatic-In-Charge is not a KING!
We need a return to Sanity. Kick every damn Republican swindler and Trump out of office. They have hijacked our government for their own greedy intent.
The Mayor of a city is responsible for political solutions. How effective have political solutions been?
The police responded to a call that a crime was being committed. And the police procedures worked until the moment that Rayshard Brooks deliberately chose to violently resist arrest. How did Rayshard Brooks get hold of a police taser? Rayshard Brooks wasn't an innocent victim. Brooks made a choice and suffered the consequences of that choice.
And Wendy's, the victim of the crime committed by Rayshard Brooks, was punished for reporting the crime.
Treating the police as some sort of inhuman robot that must follow programming isn't a realistic expectation. Police are human and experience the same fears and angers as anyone else. If a criminal suspect deliberately chooses to engage in combat then the human response is to fight back. And we know that the adrenaline rush of combat can result in atrocities; that's human nature. Demanding that police act rationally in an irrational situation ignores the flaws of humanity and the humanity of police officers.
The core of the issue is crime, not the police. Crime is why we have police. Ignoring the crime just to make some twisted, irrational, partisan argument is why the cycle keeps repeating. That twisted logic isn't going to solve anything because that twisted logic is a big part of the problem.
Right and Wrong are not determined by political party affiliation.
It is naive, indeed, juvenile to assume that all good flows from Trump and his angry supporters.
There is no evidence to support it.
When Police commit crimes they should become CRIMINALS not defenders of the peace. Looking for criminals? Try the REPUBLICAN PARTY. It's a "Crime Fest,"
Nerm_L: It is time for Police Reform, as well as time to boot Trump out of office, restore the Justice Department, take Religion out of Politics and a realization that all people are children of God and should be treated fairly.
The Police are not above the law, neither is that Buffon in the Oval Office.
Nerm_L: I am reasonably certain that you are familiar with the Preamble to the Constitution, it was a requirement for every student to memorize, this poetic summary of what our nation's purposes are.
I was required to memorize it in the 7th grade. It was that year that I was struck with the power of the word.
We were required to memorize Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, also. The sheer poetry of Lincoln's words, and, those of the American poets and writers we read mesmerized me.
It was about the time I was getting interested in girls, too. And, I would listen to our family radio, which sat atop our Refrigadire and listen to love songs.
"How do people write words like this," I thought to myself. These songs, Lincoln's words, and poetry invaded my soul. Their lyrics lingered, filled me with joy.
Perhaps, the one that cut the deepest was the Preamble:
We the People of
the United State, in Order to
form a more perfect Union,
establish Justice, insure domestic
Tranquility, provide for the
common defence, promote the
general Welfare, and secure the
Blessing of Liberty to ourselves
and our Posterity, do ordain and
establish this Constitution for the
United States of America.
To this day, it is the most beautiful thing that I have ever read. Even as a 13-year-old boy, it comforted and soothed me as no other written word has ever done.
Even to this day, I have found reading the Constitution a difficult task. It is filled with words, phrases and concepts I find awkward. As an adult I tried reading it cover to cover, but, could never get completely through it in one setting with out taking a break.
The subject, the Articles, the legislature rules it establishes are the bases of our form of government, and, as Citizens, it is wise to understand this document written by hand with a quill on September 17, 1787, going on 233 years ago.
There are libraries filled with books, manuscripts, legal cases, dusty documents dedicated to understanding it. Many have read it, few, clearly understand it.
Nearly, every law Congress writes must conform to its meaning and purposes. Cases have been argued in the highest courts of the land over its interpretation, and, the amendments made to it since it's the origin.
The Preamble, however, is a swift, easy read that expresses its intent very sweetly.
I would encourage all of us to read it first, before quoting a phrase or two from the Second Amendment as if it was an order from their Deity.
This, to me, is what I believe JUSTICE in America, should be!
Where in the Preamble to the Constitution does it say we should sit back and demand someone else do the dirty work of governing? Where in the Preamble does it suggest that the politician who panders best, governs best?
Insuring the domestic tranquility doesn't only fall on the shoulders of those who are elected. Providing for the common defense isn't accomplished by attacking those we demand defend us or by buying the cheapest stuff from the lowest foreign bidder. We don't promote the general welfare by heckling from the peanut gallery.
The Preamble to the Constitution is no justification for systemic complacency. The Preamble can be viewed as a call to action but what is being overlooked is that the Preamble is a call to govern. Governing is the action the Preamble calls for. The Preamble doesn't call for civil unrest, doesn't call for demanding political pandering, doesn't call for expecting the most while doing the least, and doesn't call for shifting the burden of justice onto someone else's shoulders.
There are an awful lot of prejudicial assumptions you are making about others. Most, if not all that you cite, are the spittal of toddlers from Right-Wing Conservatives "Toothless, WorthlessTalking Points" that slander every one that is not them, with accusations that are unfounded and only apply to the few.
Pigeonholing those that disagree with one's position on a host of issues is not wisdom, or, a solution. It is a verification of one's deep-seated, undeniable prejudice.
Calling people "Socialists" is a fear-mongering technique used by Right Wing Conservatives who have convinced themselves, that they alone know what is best "fer 'Merica," because they "be bible thumpers", and, therefore, know the will of their angry, Evangelical Red Neck God of Vengeance.
Most people want to work, want a good-paying job. But those good-paying jobs have been sent overseas to China, and elsewhere so that Corporation might pay their workers a DOLLAR an hour and force them to work TEN HOURS per day, SIX DAYS per week, that the Board of Directors and the stockholders might get immensely rich.
It was not the workers who pressured the owners to send their jobs, more than FIVE MILLION, to Communist China. It was the CEO making in excess of 137 million dollars, plus, plus, plus.
Corporations have turned their backs on their employees, as the police have turned their backs on their fellow citizens. They (the police) are not protectors of the Ruling Class.
A handful of Republican Donors control the Republican Party. They dictate through money. During the last Tax Cut for billionaires, they told the Republican leaders that there would be "No More Donations If they did not pass the Tax Cut for the RICH."
This, my friend, is a recipe for disaster. The end of our country as we know it, unless we, the citizens of this country, put a STOP to it. Because our elected leaders will not. They are getting rich at our expense. It is no more evident than in the leadership of the Republican Party.
The Party that does not object to Russia interfering with our free elections.
The Party agrees with locking children in cages, taking babies from their mothers, and building walls instead of bridges.
The Party that embraces the Industrial-Military complex as "good for America, good for the economy."
The Party that enshrined Donald J. Trump as a legitimate leader, an agent of God, a symbol of what America stands for and where they want to see this nation headed --- right into their own pockets!
It is GREED & CORRUPTION that is killing the American Dream, not citizen suppressed, beaten down, marginalized by the ruling One
JUSTICE is justice for all.
Justice is for all . . . not just for some.
Your 'president' needs to step up and govern.
Is that what the protests have been about? Have the protests only been about people getting what they want, when they want it? If that's all the protests have been about then justice can be found at the Dollar Store.
Your 'president' needs to step up and govern.
Won't ever happen.
Isn't that the expectation for any President?
When has it happened? Is pandering to selfish demands the measure of how a President should govern?
This 'president' only answers to himself.
He's never governed. He and his criminal enterprise of an administration are too busy plundering and looting and raping and pillaging the treasury right now.
I don't know what nonsense you're babbling about.
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Nerm_L: I will grant you this: For some, the protest is about looting, stealing, destruction, burning things down.
Those, in my view, should be shot in the act of looting, without remorse, and on-site, recorded for all to see.
The protests about POLICE BRUTALITY is a serious and decisive issue that has been a long time coming.
We, as a nation, have an opportunity to re-think the role of policing and, perhaps, redefine it as PUBLIC SAFETY vs An Armed Military Force used against Citizens of this country that they find in violation of the law and, therefore, our free game to be beaten, choked, clubbed, accused and executed.
The protestors nor the police are solely responsible for the VIOLENCE. It must be stopped.
Violence begets more violence.
This could be a great moment for America, or a vicious plunge into anarchy, which is what Trump's buddy, Putin, wants for America.
Trump is not someone who brings people together. It cannot be done with Trump in office.
VOTE HIM OUT and every corrupt Republican politician in office.
Marriane Williamson was a candidate for the Democratic nomination to run for President. Williamson put her ideas for governing before the public and was ready to take on the task of governing.
Al Sharpton is planning a march for families of victims killed by police. Sharpton is threatening civil unrest and demanding that his march be given justice.
Has Williamson or Sharpton displayed more courage?
Who do we VOTE IN ? Is pandering to selfish demands the measure of how a President should govern?
People have been claiming that Trump violates the Constitution. Shouldn't we be as concerned by a President who betrays the Constitution?
It doesn't matter who you vote in, as long as the political divide in the principles to be applied for good government are as divided as they are today. There will remain a battle, a disrespect if not hatred of the "other" - left vs right, liberal vs conservative, Democrat vs Republican - throwing the "other" out of your restaurant, refusing to bake a cake for the "other". Where art thou, "consensus", "unity" ? Don't bother playing the song "What a wonderful world", because it isn't, nor is it likely to be.
Nerm_L: Imagine for a moment that you are a Black person living in America. Would you feel comfortable with the present culture within the Police Department?
We can do better!
Police are scared of Blacks, Blacks are scared of Police. That is a recipe for disaster. There is fault on both sides. Now is the time to rethink how this nation is policing its citizens, Can we do better?
The Police are not a Military Police Force. Their purpose is to protect its citizens, among many other duties.
Look more closely. We are fighting over privileges. We are demanding to be given the freedom to force others to give us what we want, when we want it. People are exercising their rights without regard for the rights of others.
Being offended doesn't grant power or control over the rights of others. We aren't the same. It's necessary to learn to live with our differences because we cannot eliminate those differences. If we cannot learn to ignore the differences between us then we must live apart.
We can't do anything if we don't know what is going on. We are only seeing one story told from a biased perspective. And the political response has been to pander to that biased perspective. Pandering to a bias won't solve anything.
Don't ignore the militant factions supposedly fighting for civil rights. Cultural narratives of resentment and grievance have been used as justification for violence for the very long time. It's the Nazi thing everyone bandies about. Cultural resentment and grievance justifies genocide.
Al Sharpton, as an example, fans the flames of resentment and grievance as a cultural narrative. Al Sharpton is using the same type of cultural demagoguery as did Adolf Hitler. No, Sharpton is not a Nazi. But Sharpton is using the same means and methods to influence cultural resentment and grievance.
The growing civil rights narrative of resentment and grievance is portraying police as 'the other'. What has emerged is a cultural resentment of the police and a demand to remove the police. While not as extreme, that narrative follows the same pattern as the holocaust. That's one of reasons I have said, in the past, that the country is moving toward National Socialism.
Then don't expect the police to engage in combat. We have seen an increase in combat situations inside the United States. We have seen domestic and foreign terrorists attack the public. We have seen increasing insurrection and militant violence. These are combat situations.
Asymmetric warfare is taking place in the United States. While that warfare hasn't been as destructive because of prohibitions on military arms and munitions, nevertheless what is happening in the United States isn't that different from what is happening in the Middle East. We either deploy the military to deal with that situation or we train the police to conduct combat in a military manner.
We are demanding the police protect the citizens of the United States but, maybe, that isn't what the police should be doing. The police are being treated in the same manner as was the military returning from Vietnam. It's deja vu all over again.
Nerm_L: Very little in life is one-sided, good versus evil, right versus wrong. The history of this nation is ripe with disputes.
Within this present conflict between protesters and the police are wrapped, layer upon layer, other issues that have been boiling to the top for decades, centuries, some, since before this nation was founded.
It is clear that most of the protesters have been peaceful, but, within their ranks are paid provocateurs, criminals who seek an opportunity to loot and riot, and, those who are destructive and wish to hijack a cause for their own purpose.
Within the Police ranks, there are a number of various aggressive, out of control, vicious sadistic officers who erupt with uncontrollable violence that is deep-seated and criminal.
Our Fake President, Real POS in the Whitehouse is a criminal. A born again, a third-generation crook with a notorious background of criminal activity.
Trump's campaign from the beginning has been an assault on others. He is an angry dangerous, selfish individual that only thinks about himself. At 74 he is not about to change.
Trump needs the White House as a shield to protect him from numerous indictments that are on hold because of a tenuous "policy" enacted after Nixon that claims that "no sitting president may be indicted while in office."
It is not a law passed by Congress, ratified by the Senate and signed into law by the president. It is a policy of the justice department.
The Justice Department, under Barr and Trump, is no longer concerned with Justice, it has been stripped of it purpose and value by these selfish, self-serving unethical men for totally different reasons.
Barr, like many Religious Nuts on the Right, is an extremist Catholic on a mission to inject his personal, twisted view of the world into the law of the land.
Trump is simply a common, cheap thief without a conscious. He is devoid of empathy, a true sociopath.
That toxic combination is soaking in a vat of political corruption dating back to the Nixon era, and, getting more sordid with each passing second.
All of these factors are converging in OUR country. It is not THEIR country, the political looter at the top of the pecking order. At this moment, in the midst of a Worldwide Pandemic and smoldering Social Unrest, we are at our most vulnerable. Our enemies are stoking the fires with glee. Putin is pleased with the instability that he has been working on since he became Russia's Dictator for life.
Trump flirts openly with that concept, as well.
Now is the moment for cooler heads. Smarter minds, and leadership with a sense of Unity, not fomenting chaos for selfish goals.
In many ways, the protests are about Trump's total lack of leadership, incompetence, stupidity, and his looting of the public treasury.
I did not mention Trump. So, why have you?
Are you really concerned about the problem? Or are you only trying to used dead black people to score political points?
Trump set the tone for many of the self-destructive actions in this country. His constant lying about the COVID19 virus.
"Not a threat . . ."
"It's a Fraud . . . created by Dems to distract from the record."
"I did a great job defeating Covid19 . . . !"
"I won't wear a mask . . . !"
"Maybe some will get sick at my rallies, maybe not . . . it will be only a few!"
"I did not ask Russia to help me get elected.
"I did not ask Ukraine to get dirt on my opponent.
"I did not ask China to help me get re-elected.
"When the looting starts - the shooting starts.
"Michael Flynn is a good man, and, so is Jeffrey Epstein, The Navy Seal who stabbed a young man to death and was court-martial, etc."
Trump is always sending the wrong messages to an audience that already is angry, upset, and seeking someone to blame.
He needs to step down and get out!
Yes I see a need for cultural change in areas where minorities commit a disproportional amount of crime and then as a result of that crime end up receiving a disproportionate amount of police brutality.
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Rather than issue additional tickets to the responses, I have deleted the whole miserable thread, SP
Spot on.
That and the fact that most interactions with LEO's are good, even with bad actors. So people are freaking out over a minority of LEO actions. Defunding the police? Completely asinine.
Better control over making bad cops accountable for inappropriate behavior? Completely reasonable.
The cry for "Defunding the Police" is a call and a recognition for a Total Reforming of the Police Departments in America.
The same applies to Police Officers. They are not WHITE KNIGHTS, some are KKK members, some are corrupt, some are sadists, and, yes, we all hope, the bulk is made of good people.
Is that not true of MINORITIES, too?
No solution will ever be found if we start with the position that one side is right and the other is wrong. It is time for this nation's citizenry to grow up.
And, do you see a need for a cultural change when White Neo-Nazi dresses up in Military Outfits, carry load weapons to Walmarts, a protest, or, a sit-in at a statehouse because they do not believe that the COVID19 is a real threat?
Do you see where there is a need for a cultural change in the way that police are policing their jurisdictions?
Do you see a need for a cultural change when Evangelicals are injecting their "Talking-In-Tongue," primitive religious views into every public forum in America?
Do you see a need for a cultural change when 6 Major GOP Billionaire DONORS control the legislation in Congress?
Do you see a need for a cultural change when the Administration pursues a policy of locking up kids in cages, taking babies from their Mothers?
Do you see a need for a cultural change why the Fake POTUS, Real POS in the WH is openly stealing billions, and, lying to the public over 17,000 times in 3.5 years?
Or, is the so-called "cultural change" that needs to happen ONLY takes place with WHITE FOLKS telling Black Folks how to live, speak, act, live, vote, etc.?
Racism has always been a MAIN plank of Southern Crackers still smarting from the Arse Cracking they got during the Civil War and are still loyal to the Confederacy, but, not to America!
Trump is the PROBLEM!
Every right we enjoy has cost someone their life, liberty, or justice. We need to find better methods of resolving disputes rather than resorting to CAVEMEN swinging clubs at everyone.
We are an imperfect nation with imperfect people striving for perfection. We can do this! We need Justice for All, an atmosphere of respect, co-operation vs. intimidation.
Of course we can !
Time to set up little "Social" areas within each state, where everyone within that little Social enclave polices themselves. We can set up "Hard" border's around these New surveyed borders, with a couple of egress/ingress gates you have to go through. I.D.'s would need to be checked to make sure you belong in that little slice of life area. Armed guards would need to be set at those gates though, because, ya know, there are BAD people out there. Only those folks that are "Just Like everyone" in your little "Social" border circle will be allowed in.
You would definitely need "Negotiators" and some type of "Protectorate" within your little Enclave too. Those Next Door "Socially awoke" nieghbor enclaves may get jealous, and want to start trouble one day.
It's a start !
Thats been tried before and it hasn't worked out that great.
The Berlin wall, the DMZ in Korea, my neighbors fence that still doesn't hide all the Sanford junk in his back yard .......
Perhaps, the place to start is with RESPECT for others, Justice For ALL, not just for some, Inclusion in American, instead of Exclusion based on race might be a better start.
I’d call working on the family unit a better good start. Known fact that kids from single parent families tend to get in more trouble.
Much of the rest will take of itself.
I have to agree with that, also. It took me a long time to realize that. I was more like that song, "I'm a lot like you, Dad."
As a grandparent, the wisdom of family means more to me each day, as I approach my 80s.
WTF?
I imagine that laughing at Funeral is, also, acceptable protocol.
Going to a BETTER Place...… Happy Times …... Good Times !
Always, the jokester. Every King needs a Court Jester.
Are they going to HELL ?
Jealous?
Lettuce Hope so!
A little bit, yes.
Honesty? Very refreshing for this place.
Justice is for all . . . not just for some.