The Johnson & Johnson Pause
As of Monday, more than 6.8 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine had been administered across the U.S. The CDC & FDA is calling for a pause in distribution based on 6 cases of blood clots. How much of a fraction of 1% would that be?
The agencies said the "adverse events" seem to be extremely rare, but that the pause is important so that health care providers can be made aware of the reactions and properly recognize and manage the cases, given the unique treatment required.
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/johnson-johnson-covid-vaccine-pause-blood-clots/
The key phrase would be "extremely rare."
So what is this really about?
Why pause a vaccine that is a favorite of many Governors because only one shot is required and the vaccine does not all the refrigeration of the two more prominent vaccines?
You hear it right away there. This may be about vaccine confidence. We must treat the American public like children and pause an effective vaccine to show us all how responsible the irresponsible CDC is.
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Six cases out of 6.8 Million doses. We have more cases with women on the pill.
What is it really about?
Donald Trump and his supporters are off topic.
I am off topic.
An overabundance of caution to inform doctors and patients for treatment. I don't necessarily agree with it, but then I'm not a doctor either.
Standard blood thinners which came to my mind are a huge no-no!
Yes. That was in the report I saw. Clots are no joke.
Nefarious dust bunnies for those of little faith to chase into unlit closets? I'm sure you'll find something if you use Pandora's search engine. When you get to Hope, kill it, it's the worst thing in her box.
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If you include all citizens regardless of age and gender. Probably half of the 6.8M are men, leaving 3.4M women. Considering the age group is 18~48, how many of the 3.4M women are in that cohort, which most states have only recently began vaccinating in mass? Then comes the specific factors which may contribute to clots in women 18~48. Those 6 cases then make up a much smaller group than 6.8M. Then there is the timing of 6~13 days. How many of this specific group has gotten vaccinated in the past week?
The full pause is where I am struggling, although sometimes drastic measures are required to get the word out.
The real question might be were the 6 women previously infected ?
Do any of these genius spokespeople at CDC know it those previously infected should be vaccinated?
Imagine the fun you would have had if the CDC did not report and it leaked out instead ...
Imagine how much better off we would all be if they only spoke to what they knew and were less political.
The CDC is apolitical. [removed]
Per CDC ...
The geniuses say yes, which somewhat addresses your first question.
So the stops on AstraZeneca in Europe were also political? Bogymen lurv squirrels.
If you have recently contracted the virus, the CDC recommends you wait about 10 days before getting vaccinated.
Other doctors question that. I guess we shall find out.
What does Europe have to do with the CDC?
See #2.1.10
Who are those other doctors?
Start with Hooman Noorchashm MD, Phd:
I don't go to retired surgeons for advice on deadly pandemics.
I'll trust Dr. Fauci. I'll trust experts on the subject, such as Dr. Fauci. You know, an expert on the subject?
Go Tony! Go Tony! Go Tony!
The information about the relationship between the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was released. In order to stay in front of the batshit crazy people who wish to distort and disinform the public (anti-vaxers,etc.) there was a need for the CDC to address the issue in some way. If they hadn't, it would have allowed some to paint them as unresponsive to perceived dangers of the vaccine. The CDC is in a double-bind at this point, so rather than appearing to not care about the issue, they briefly stopped giving the vaccine. It really isn't that hard to understand.
Go Tony! Go Tony! Go Tony!
Tony is still stumped by the question of if you had the vaccine, why do you still need the mask?
It's a stupid question. I don't know why we answer it over and over again.
Who is Tony?
The person who once told us we didn't need masks.
The person who once told us covid-19 wouldn't affect us.
The person who is telling us that even though we got the vaccine, we must carry on as if we hadn't.
If you are getting bee venom shots to build up immunity and lessen allergic reactions to bee stings, should you rush out and wack a hornets nest after your first treatment?
Tell Dr Fauci, he doesn't know what to say. I love his answer to why Texas is doing so good - "they must all be outside." That was a classic!
"Tell Dr Fauci, he doesn't know what to say."
We'll pass that on to the expert in the field.
I'm quite sure like anything related to Dr. Fauci, you've taken it out of context.
Tony - how disrespectful!
Did you tell Thomas? That was his comment.
That is probably why, combined with the fact that people aren't listening to what the government tells them they can and can't do, so they listen to their better angels and they tell them to wear a mask, keep apart from other people and, yes, to go outside. Following these common sense practices can lessen the chance of exposure.to Covid.
Until enough of the vaccine can get into enough of the population (we are not sure of what enough is) that is the time, in combination with the infection rates being much lower, preferably with each infected person causing less than 1 new infection, we should continue to use these mitigation measures.
People in general do not want to catch Covid so they follow these guidelines out of good faith.
What is it a guessing game? All of Texas went outside! Come on Thomas, that's not the way the so called expert should be talking.
Fauci should learn the words I DON"T KNOW!
If everyone is attributing to the individual Jim Jordan the sense that god gave him, you would think that he would ask about those things that people are claiming he asked about: People claim he asked about how long it was going to be before the infection rates dropped and the vaccination rates went up, but he did not address those issues. He went off on a diatribe against the abrogation of first amendment rights. For an extended period of time. He did not talk of any thing else.
When he paused, it was only long enough for Dr. Fauci to start to formulate and enunciate a reply, and then Representative Jordan jumped back on and rode the circus pony some more. Dr. Fauci was probably trying too hard to be literal and to answer the question that was actually asked. But it takes more than a brief pause to elucidate Jordan of the difference. So he rushed on with the same line of questioning.
C'mon ,Vic. You can't seriously mean to suggest that his was not the performance of an actor rather than the exercise of true virtue.
If he had wanted to hear about anything else, he would've asked it.
That is not what he asked.
The essence of the question was if you got both your vaccination shots, when can you return to normal life ???
Flip Flop Fauci couldn't answer and needed the help of two nasty activists.
Seems like a huge mistake, unless there's some data they are withholding. Besides the additional deaths delays in vaccinating people will cause, this will increase vaccine hesitancy which will cause even more deaths and extend the pandemic.
They better be very sure this puts them on the right side of the trade offs.
Why? It is a pause, you have no idea how long the "pause" will last.
Why would it do that? If anything it shows them taking any reported issues seriously, and investigating all reports. Should make you feel better when they do approve the vaccine.
Because even a short delay will cause more covid cases, which will cause more deaths
hy would it do that?
Really? You can't figure out why the CDC stopping a vaccine because of a possible link to fatal clotting might cause people, say adults under 45, who have almost no risk of dying from covid from skipping getting vaccinated? You are aware a significant portion of the population is already hesitant to get the vaccine? You think linking the vaccine to fatal blood clots and then retracting that link will inspire confidence? It's always amazing what people say on this site.
Here's the progressive Kevin Drum pointing out the obvious:
"The US population of women aged 18-48 is 65 million. About 2,000 have died of COVID-19 over the course of 12 months, or roughly 300 every two months. That's right around 5 per million.
The population of women who have received the J&J vaccine is presumably about 3.5 million. One has died of a blood clot over the two months the vaccine has been available. That's 0.3 per million. If the woman in Nebraska also dies, that goes up to 0.6 per million.
I just don't understand this. Even if it turns out that the J&J vaccine does cause blood clots, the mortality rate is less than a tenth of the mortality rate from COVID-19 itself. Why would you risk undermining public confidence in a vaccine for such a small danger?"
[removed] And just now you are concerned with COVID infections and deaths? If it helps, the number of infections and deaths would be an extremely small percentage of the number caused by lack of mask wearing.
All depends on why they are stopping it. They are investigating a possible side effect before allowing it to be administered again. I'd be more concerned if they'd ignored all the data about the blood clots.
Here comes the deflections....(Not that it matters, but I didn't vote for Trump)
They are investigating a possible side effect before allowing it to be administered again.
No kidding. Why restate the obvious and ignore my point? The issue is whether the data supports the stoppage. We already know from Europe that stopping and starting a vaccine undermines confidence. Yet somehow, you claimed that publicly linking a vaccine to fatal side effects and then withdrawing that claim will make people feel better about the vaccine. That's absurd.
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What does an obscure blogger (whether he's a progressive or not) have to do with ANYTHING?
Thanks for the site. Kevin appears to be quite rational.
Have you not been paying attention? The side effects have already been linked to the J&J vaccine. The CDC is just responding to it.
Face it, certain people will make any excuse to distrust a vaccine, but evaluating that vaccine to affirm that it is not dangerous, should not be one of them.
By amplifying it and validating them!. Can you not see the difference? Look up the Streisand effect.
but evaluating that vaccine to affirm that it is not dangerous, should not be one of them.
How is this hard to follow? Are you aware of what happened in Europe after the AZ fiasco? Of course stopping a vaccine because of a link to deadly side effects is going to undermine confidence. Saying whoops! we were wrong in a few weeks, isn't going to make this go away. Have you paid attention to how the internet works? The sensational allegation always gets more coverage than the subsequent walk back. It's simple common sense and understanding of human nature that's already backed up by data form Europe. There's literally precedent from a month ago debunking the idea that this will help instill confidence in the vaccine.
I'm constantly astounded by how bizarre and detached from reality some arguments get here. As Nate Silver said, "6 cases out of 7 million people. What a disaster. This is going to get people killed. And it's going to create more vaccine hesitancy. These people don't understand cost-benefit analysis. They keep making mistakes by orders of magnitude."
Their job is to validate these reports. You want them to ignore them?
So you would rather remain ignorant about a vaccine's possibly fatal side effects? Wow.....
No, and there's no possible construction of what I wrote to justify that I do.
So you would rather remain ignorant about a vaccine's possibly fatal side effects? Wow...
You really are getting desperate. That's not what I said, at all.
Good move trying to move past your claim that this won't negatively impact vaccine confidence. That was getting sad to see. I understand why you felt it necessary to pivot to creating strawmen to attack.
Thanks for the numbers provided in the link ... and yes they are low per capita, yet there is a possible link, so often clots go unexplained. 10 years ago clots shut my world down with no explanation ..
I am not sure how I feel about the Johnson and Johnson vaccine delay .. nor why this information would be made public .. I have a bigger issue with the information being made public, than I do about the shot delay - the CDC or whomever the higher power is, could easily have said there was a delay in production of said vaccine until further research could be done [as you said] this will increase the hesitancy .. sadly not all can be saved, it comes down to each of us taking care of ourselves and in turn we are saving others... I just had my second Pfizer shot and am now staying home for 2 weeks - I will continue to wear a mask, but I will do so in peace for the next 6 month'ish .. guess the higher powers are not sure how long the shots efficacy last .. imagine that!
Peace..!
So you don't want them to ignore the reports, but you also don't want them to act on, or further report on, the reports of side effects.
Why the fuck wouldn't they make the information public?
It makes no goddamned sense to not inform the public.
"By amplifying it and validating them!"
What does that mean?
Who is Nate Silver? Why should we give a shit what he says?
Get a dictionary.
Who is Nate Silver?
If you don't know, there's this thing called google.
hy should we give a shit what he says?
Who are you speaking for? Could you, maybe, try and put together an argument one time? Otherwise, what do you imagine you accomplish by parroting the same knee jerk hostility to sources and facts over and over and over again. Agree or disagree. I don't care. But at least contribute an argument.
Never mind! Ozzwald clarified it well for me with the truth and the facts, something that some folks never provide.
"Their job is to validate these reports. You want them to ignore them?"
So you would rather remain ignorant about a vaccine's possibly fatal side effects? Wow.....
Can you imagine the lawsuits civil and otherwise for J&J not STOPPING A VACCINE WITH POSSIBLY FATAL SIDE EFFECTS AND INFORMING THE PUBLIC OF THOSE POSSIBLY FATAL SIDE EFFECTS?
Thanks ozzwald! For providing the truth and the facts. As usual.
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The pause does a couple of things.
First they make sure this isn’t way worse than it appears. You start out with 5 or 6 reported cases, but if you look around a little, maybe you find out there were more cases that haven’t been reported and linked to the vaccine yet. Kinda like Bill Cosby sexual assault cases.
Second, while they do the first bit, they can alert healthcare providers around the country to this side effect and recommend appropriate treatment. Because clots caused in this way maybe shouldn’t be treated using standard methods.
And assuming these numbers remain at roughly 1 in a million, they will probably get back to vaccinating people pretty quick.