Why didn't Putin mess with Ukraine while Trump was president?
As the right-wing world awaits Donald Trump's speech at 2022 CPAC ( otherwise known as kiss Trump's ass) this evening, I was wondering , like many people , why didnt Putin make a move like the invasion of Ukraine during Trump's term?
It came to me after a little thought. In a second Trump term it was expected that he would pull the US out of NATO. Trump wanted to end NATO during his first term but wasn't able to get there. In a second term without the need to get reelected he would be free to destroy the NATO coalition by pulling the US out. Without America there would be no NATO.
Did Donald Trump promise Vladimir Putin he would end NATO in a second Trump term?
That is what Putin wanted to see, and wants to see today. If Russia had attacked Ukraine while Trump was president it would have been impossible for Trump to remove the United States from NATO.
Think about it.
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What Trump wanted was for Europe to pay for their own defense
And he was right. Germany's refusal to carry its weight is a disgrace.
So where is your proof to back up your TDS driven thought?
Talk about crack brained conspiracy theories. You do remember that Trump had the Europeans so damn upset that they were planning a European Army so that they wouldn't have to rely on the US! Of course like all European ideas they spend all of the their time and money planning and not once damn cent doing!
Why didn't Putin mess with Ukraine while Trump was president?
Because Trump wasn't a bumbling old fool and...
Putin wasn't THAT stupid.
Trump is mentally retarded and he is damn near as old as Biden. They are both practically in their graves. And do you honestly think Trump would have done ANYTHING if Putin invaded the Ukraine a couple years ago? I mean, honestly, do you truly think Putin wouldn't have acted in Ukraine because he would have been afraid of Trump's response?
I think Trump made Putin promises about a second Trump term that Putin liked and didn't want to mess up by causing Trump trouble during his first term
But Putin didn't despite the left constantly screaming Trump was a Russian sleeper or Putin's puppet.
Putin waited for the human fuck up machine that is currently office. No spinning it no matter how hard the TDS driven try.
So Putin waited for the guy who would present unwaivering resistance to his actions, would sanction his country, and would supply the fuck out of his enemies causing heavier than expected casualties.
That makes me wonder why so many yahoos on the left keep lying about Trump and Russia.
If Trump was preferred by Putin, seems like invading a country when he was President would have been saner.
The "logic" used to tar Trump is simply useless drivel.
But.... but..... he's orange, man.... come on, he's got to be bad. He's got to be evil... Just look at his comb-over... totally evil, even gives me the creeps... hehe
It's really insane. Trump was supposedly Putin's patsy, yet Putin does nothing when he's in office. Not to mention the obvious problem with the theory in that Putin's supposed "patsy" armed the Ukrainians, which Obama refused to do, and increased sanctions. And then Putin waits until his supposed patsy is out of office to engage in the biggest risk of his life, when having a patsy as President would have been invaluable.
It's just so stupid on it's face that I'd find it impossible to believe anyone would publicly claim such nonsense if I didn't see evidence of it here everyday.
Their complete and utter lack of sensibilities astounds.
According to many on the left, Trump was a Russian stooge--so much so that Putin WAITED until he was out of office before invading.
Makes sense, huh?
Trump was/is a fucking retard, been saying it for 6 years.
As I have said, Putin wasn't ready during Trump's presidency.
Trump isn't your President any longer.
And you KNOW that because why?
Did you have some Russian friends keeping you abreast of Russian tactics, strategies, and plans?
Yeah, the same tough guy who dropped Trump imposed sanctions last May only to put them back on nine months later.
What a guy you elected there .... he’s a foreign policy genius. /S
The whole premise is stupid as fuck.
"Putin waited"!!
LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know, irrationality is about all some folks have to muster anymore.
Nope.
A guess.
Do you?
\No. You know why?
Because he didn't invade Ukraine.
Putin waited until yet another weak, feeble democratic president got into office to make his move.
Biden was a prayer answered.
Sure.
Glad you have come around to the truth
Cuz putin would have told him no.
Lol what?
And it completely backfired on your boy Putin.
So putin is actually an idiot.
Yea...he is
Not because of the pussy in the White House
But because he underestimated the resolve of the Ukranian people.
The pussy in the White House has no idea what is going on.
well, duh.
laugh if you want , by my take on trump has always been a bloviating blowhard with an ego complex , But when it comes to putin ,he didnt believe a word out of trumps mouth , which placed trump not only as an unreliable source of agreements , but very unpredictable in how he would react. putin only bets on sure things when he is sure of all the reactions , with trump he couldnt be sure of the reaction.
We THINK Putin is crazy as a shithouse rat
We KNOW Trump is crazy as a shithouse rat
it appears so did Putin
just my opinion
I have Newsmax on television right now . The right-wing nutcase Michael Savage, the talk show host, is on there complaining about how much money it costs to send military supplies to Ukraine.
He's also complaining about how popular Zelensky is.
Why?
Cheap laughs
To keep his TDS on a razor's edge.
And to make sure he gets his fascist support in for Ukraine. This is the fascists vs the communists; and like Reagan said.
Seriously? [Deleted]
Savage never bitched about all the money spent in Iraq
Did Donald Trump promise Vladimir Putin he would end NATO in a second Trump term
I think you are confusing Barack "I'll have more flexibility" Obama with Trump.
"In fact, Trump had privately indicated that he would seek to withdraw from NATO and to blow up the U.S. alliance with South Korea, should he win reelection. When those alliances had come up in meetings with Esper and other top aides, some advisers warned Trump that shredding them before the election would be politically dangerous.”
Said Trump: “Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term.”
Expected by whom??
This is one of your crazier ones.
IMO he wasn't ready, and then with the pandemic and everything.
Trump is doing his comedy act in front of CPAC right now. He has singled out most of the prominent far right nut jobs for individual praise, including Marjorie Taylor Greene, Jim Jordan. Madison Cauthorn , Matt Gaetz and Mike Lindell.
Unbelievable.
To the extent that Trump tossed around the idea of leaving NATO, it wasn’t because he didn’t think NATO was a good idea. He just thought that the way it functioned was a bad deal for America. He saw America doing all the heavy lifting and big spending, and doing so to face a threat that is more immediately dangerous to Europe than to the United States. I think that’s a fair assessment.
So, one thing Trump knows about a bad deal is that you aren’t going to compel other parties to operate in your favor unless you show that you’re willing to walk out on the deal. You have to bring more to the negotiating table than just “pretty please.”
Trump wanted to end NATO. Did he communicate that to Putin at Helsinki? That would explain why Putin waited.
If he really and truly wanted that, there was no need to bitch about the financial contributions of other countries.
Well, yeah, but who can pass up a chance to make stuff up about Helsinki?
Horseshit.
As noted several times here and completely ignored by you, he simply wanted other chartered NATO countries to pay what they agreed to pay. I guess you like it when the US is getting screwed. He didn’t which is one of the reasons so many Americans supported him.
Unlike all the people here who are too stupid to know they are getting boned.
There are numerous stories reported in the news that Trump wanted to end NATO by withdrawing the US. You look it up
On a lttle different note , last night in his CPAC speech Trump said the pillow man Mike Lindell is a great American. Do you agree?
Oh numerous “stories” huh?
How convincing ......
I think Hillary is a worse American.
A deflection of your deflection if you will .....
Do you know how to Google?
So you think Hillary Clinton is a worse American than Mike Lindell. That says a lot.
I think most of the known world would regard Hillary Clinton as a worse American than not only Mike Lindell, but even worse than Richard Nixon for that matter.
I'll tell you what, let's have her run again
Do you know how to provide links to prove the assertions you make?
Yes it does but it’s nothing that I didn’t already know about you.
Really? Google "Most Admired Women"...
Ya, by those like yourself. Lol
I've already given a couple links to stories about this. Now you go find stories.
Simple FACT is NATO still exists, and now some countries are finally paying more than they were thanks to Trump.
I know that thanks to Trump is a bitter pill to swallow for some Trump-haters, but facts are facts.
Now, if one wants to speculate and guess, have at it but please stay grounded in reality.
Or you could try to substantiate the assertions you made and not ask others to do it for you.
But that’s just me .....
You’re not even considering the alternate - and far more plausible - analysis that you are hearing from many people.
If I am negotiating to buy a house, and I think the seller is demanding too much money, I might walk out of the room. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to buy a house. It just means I don’t want to pay what the seller is demanding.
You can claim that Trump wanted this or that, but two facts remain unexplained by your fantasy. First, he spent four years in office and we are still part of NATO. Second, he put a lot of time and energy into demanding that other countries make good on their financial commitments to NATO. That obviously implies he wants to keep it going.
So I’m going to pay a little less credence to what you imagine a person might have been thinking and a little more into what actually happened.
Or maybe he threatened Putin. That would also explain why he waited, and it would make a lot more sense.
On the other hand, we actually have a recording of Obama telling Putin’s representative to wait until after an election. That’s why this projection of Trump doing something similar is so funny.
Fantasy or reality. You are dealing in the former, while the rest of us can see the latter.
I see a lot of whining I don't see anyone disproving my theory. Trump wanted to remove the United States from NATO and he wanted to end NATO. He was also discussing these things in the same time frame when he was meeting with Putin. I also put up a link to that.
The fact that Trump was not able remove the United States from NATO during his first term it's not at all a decisive consideration. He was never able to lay a convincing groundwork for it in his first term and the election season for the second term came around very quickly especially with the dawn of covid. None of that means that Putin could not have worked under the assumption that Trump would do this in his second term.
I don't suppose you can document any of that, can you?
Sounds like more fantasy to me.
And no one sees you proving your theory.
I could say that Putin is doing this as a distraction for Biden's domestic woes, but it wouldn't make it so.
As if there is any love lost between Biden and Putin. Trump never had an unkind word to say about Putin. It is far more likely that there was a secret arrangement between Trump and Putin than between Biden and Putin.
Maybe you see what you want to see. Someone disagrees with you, and you call it “whining.”
Would you be willing to see it? I posted a link in @9.2.10.
It’s not up to us to disprove your theory. It’s up to you to prove it. But your “proof” is full of suspicion, partisanship, and imagination. Not surprising because the facts available tend to refute your theory. I and others and have given you reason to doubt your theory, but you refuse to consider any of it. So again, what are you willing to see?
It’s pretty compelling, actually. Especially so in light of the lack of effort. Where is the address to Congress demanding we remove the US from NATO? Where is the executive order? He certainly signed enough of them.
True. Anything is possible and there is nothing to prevent a person from engaging in irrational thinking.
To answer like a liberal.....
You made the accusation.
You provide the proof.
thank you for missing the point!
There are worse Americans right here on Newstalkers
Yeah, when I think of whatshisname - I think he's spent his whole life doing that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Making decisive considerations.
Sure there is--in deluded, sick minds!
R u aware that Obama wanted the European countries to Pay MORE towards NATO ? As in the same % as the US does per GDP i believe, and the 'Right" belittled Obama for that suggestion, but when Trump ,mentions it, its awesome....?
Why would Trump meet alone with Putin ? Why did he SIDE WITH PUTIN PUBLICALLY< OVER OUR OWN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES ?Without considering this, and the fact Trump NERVER had negative things to say about Putin, one really must question Trump, and his motives, for to just give him a pass, is downright Foolish !
I didn’t come into this saying anything negative about Obama. If he did want that, that’s fine, but Trump is the one who got it done. Although, my understanding of it based on the reporting is that any improvements in contributions are not all that significant, really.
I would consider it awesome any time someone sticks up for the United States and demands that other nations do their part. It’s even more awesome if they can actually make it happen.
I feel like we do an awful lot for the world, and it’s not appreciated. What’s more, a lot of the money spent protecting the world could be going to my healthcare or our highways, etc. I hear all about the great healthcare systems other countries have, but they don’t have to pay for hundreds of military bases in every corner of the planet.
I couldn’t guess. On the other hand, I’m not going to go around inventing some explanation without proof.
Ya know what? There are a lot of dirty cops in this country. A lot of dirty attorneys, too. If you want to put your head in the sand and not acknowledge that, I guess I can’t help you. But not only do these people exist, a lot of them work for the federal government. If they were making shit up about me, getting warrants by lying on affidavits, by submitting evidence they knew was bogus . . . Yeah, I don’t think I’d be very friendly to them in public myself.
I don’t give Trump passes. I criticize him for the real shit he says and does (or fails to do). If I genuinely thought Trump favored Russia over the US, I would eagerly disapprove of him for it. If I genuinely thought he wanted to disband NATO, I would think him a greater fool than I already do.
I have said it many times and I will repeat it here: There are tons of things Trump does or says that are worthy of criticism and condemnation. It’s not necessary to exaggerate or make things up, and yet that happens all the time with him.
On the other hand, few people are evil 100% of the time and even Trump has some thoughts on public policy - foreign and domestic - that I can agree with. So even though I didn’t particularly want him to be president and wish he would just go away now, I’m not going to buy into every bullshit bit of drama that gets published about him.
Please, Trump had no clue of what NATO was, or why, let alone whether it was a good idea. Heavy lifting? Spending? Trump was posturing for his retarded base because somebody told him it was a good shtick.
Apparently it worked...
If Trump knew a bad deal - he'd not be known as a Bankruptcy King.
SHEESH
There is no defense of the human fuck up machine that inhabits the Oval Office now.
All the left can do is scream "But Trruuummmppppp" as loud as they fucking can and pray there are still enough of the TDS driven out there to care.
When Trump was in office he had to be treated with kid gloves by those who had to educate him on military options he assumed with the job. Remember when he said “why do we have nukes if we’re not allowed to use them?” Trump is the deranged one.
Pay attention
An anticipation that Trump would end NATO would indeed give Putin a reason to hold off any move against Ukraine
Wikipedia
2018 Russia–United States summit
Meeting between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin in Helsinki on 16 July 2018
Trump had a private meeting with Putin in the same time period he was discussing withdrawing from NATO. Doesn't take genius to see it may have been discussed at the private meeting which would have given Putin a motivation to not attack Ukraine during Trump's term.
Why would he hold off after Biden said:
"Putin knows that when I am president of the United States his days of tyranny and trying to intimidate the United States and those in Eastern Europe are over," Joe Biden 2019
Outside the Fox News / Newsmax far rightwing bubble Biden and his administration are being praised for their leadership regarding Ukraine.
You mean MSNBC and CNN and other left wing bubbles? Maybe you should ask the Ukrainians what they think.
My God, is there ANYTHING that the left won't make shit up about?
How many crack-pot leftist theories about Helsinki ARE there, anyways?
I’m glad you’re hear to read Trump’s mind for us.
In gesture to Trump, US allies close to deal to pay more for NATO running costs
Accusations? Months of negotiations? That’s a lot of effort toward something he has no clue of.
In other words, your whole approach is based in your own imagination. Why should anyone take anything you are saying seriously? Anyone can imagine all sorts of terrible things about anyone.
Apparently there is no level too low for people to stoop to when inventing things and imagining whatever they were led to believe by "news".
The scary thing is they spout it off as if it were fact.
What kills me are the people that believe that there are actually two sides to this story.
People like that maybe this country's biggest problem.
No there is only one side...
Biden is a fuck up.
That's why Putin made his move.
So you side with putin?
Uh, no, and stop putting words that do not exist in my posts
I side with the Ukranian people
Fun fact:
Declaring Biden to be a fuck up (which he is) is a totally separate issue from siding with Putin, and since no mention was made of siding with Putin besides your snarky comment, why are you once again deflecting?
Fact checkers arrive for work during Trump's CPAC speech.
Check again, those are Democrat politicians violating their own mask and travel restrictions by going to Florida.
The fact that Putin did not invade while Trump was president is indisputable. Whether one had anything to do with the other is nothing but pure conjecture. The only way to know for sure is to be in Putins head and from what I can tell that is a place no one wants to be.
Volunteered at 17, USMC here [Deleted] Iraq 2006/2008 so unless you can name actual combat tours [Deleted]
Here ya go.
Of course, insulting others is your forte...but we knew that. That's what happens when someone is called out for their story making.
1985-1989 USS Midway CV 41
1989-1991 USS New Jersey BB 62 (decommissioned for the last time)
1991=1993 Long Beach, Ca
1993-1996 USS Independence CV 62
1996-1999 USS Connoly DD 979
1999-2002 FACSFAX Jax NAS Jacksonville
2002-2005 USS Kennedy CV 67
then retired.
Participated in both Gulf Wars, spent many months off the coast of Iran/Iraq in the Persian Gulf. Controlled aircraft in and out of their combat runs in country and every shithole this world has to offer.
So, [Deleted] I proved my history. Saying you "did" something in 2006 only puts doubt on your "service".
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removed for context
Removed for context.
Thread @2.1 cleaned up. Play nice.
[deleted]
First, did you flag it? I can't read every comment.
Second, some of your comments were violations which were deleted without being ticketed, too. You're welcome.