Long-Suffering Victim Louis CK Wins Grammy, Is Still Victim
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Media/EntertainmentRobyn PennacchiaApril 05, 2022 09:20 AM 141105-D-KC128-825 | Comedian Louis C.K. performs onstage du… | Flickr www.flickr.com
Sunday night, comedian Louis C.K. won a Grammy, which means today we have to talk about cancel culture and whether or not it exists and is a real thing. Fun!
Just as a refresher, while rumors had been around for years, Louis CK was formally accused in 2017 by several female comedians of whipping his dick out and masturbating in front of them. CK then admitted that he had done this and wrote an apology letter in The New York Times explaining that he thought it was okay because he asked them beforehand if it was okay for him to show them his penis and did not realize that they might feel weird about saying no to one of the most famous and successful comedians in the country.
In 2019, he pandered to the MAGA crowd by mocking Parkland students. In 2020, he released a comedy special in which he made light of his behavior, saying, "I like jerking off, I don't like being alone, that's all I can tell you. I get lonely, it's just sad. I like company. I like to share. I'm good at it, too. If you're good at juggling, you wouldn't do it alone in the dark. You'd gather folks and amaze them."
As small as the the audience for juggling is, one would have to imagine that the audience for watching Louis CK jerk off, no less be "amazed" by it, is significantly smaller.
And Sunday night, as mentioned, he won the Grammy for best comedy album, leading to a whole lot of people saying that this is proof that "cancel culture" does not exist. Which it doesn't, at least not as an entirely new phenomenon that only just began existing in the last few years because of oppressive social justice warriors who just want to ruin the lives of people for making any small mistake, like accidentally showing your penis to people and then masturbating in front of them. Rather, people have long been turned off from performers based on their personal behavior — those people just didn't always know about it because social media did not exist and there were simply not as many platforms available for people to talk about it publicly.
What has also always existed are people who say, "OK, I don't like this person as a human being, but I can still enjoy their work for whatever reason." And let's be real, we all do it. We all make these calls all of the time because there are a hell of a lot of crappy famous people both throughout history and right now. I love Puccini with my whole heart, but he was not a good guy and Madama Butterfly is as problematic as it is musically gorgeous. I rationalize still loving Rosemary's Baby for reasons of "Ruth Gordon was not in enough things and I am not giving up watching her be amazing and dole out tannis root smoothies because Roman Polanski was horrible."
Apparently that was how whoever judges The Grammys felt about Louis CK.
The messed up thing about the whole cancel culture debate is that it takes the humanity out of very human situations and turns them into a moral panic bandwagon that people are jumping on without thought or care. People aren't mad that Louis CK got a Grammy even when he was supposed to be "canceled," they're mad because he whipped his dick out at people who did not want him to do that, which is a relatively reasonable reaction to have. Especially when it has been five years and he hasn't even bothered to try to make amends in any significant way. He doesn't need to, because there is a whole "canceled comic!" career trajectory that is just ripe for the picking.
I'm not saying that there are any circumstances in which it is not a little gross for Louis CK to be getting a Grammy, but the really crappy thing about it is that there were probably a few things he could have actually done to show some accountability for his actions and attempt to make amends to those he hurt, and he didn't bother.
What CK did was bad for anyone, but this was particularly egregious because of the amount of power he had (and still has) in the comedy world. The reason he was able to get away with what he did for so long was because women did not want to fuck up their careers by telling him to fuck off. Two of his accusers actually did go around telling people that he whipped out his dick and started masturbating in front of them and were told by his equally (if not more) powerful and influential manager to back off or else. Those women said that they ended up turning down opportunities because CK or his manager were involved.
Instead of sneaking around, performing secret "surprise" shows to prevent anyone from protesting them, and setting the stage for his own comeback, CK could have actually tried to use his power and his connections to help out those he'd hurt, whose careers had possibly been derailed by his actions. This is not to say that this would have made up for what he did, but it's the kind of thing that a human person who is genuinely remorseful might do.
That's the thing with the whole "cancel culture" moral panic, isn't it? Because people jump on the "Oh, what? Am I/Is this person bad forever now just because they made one mistake (or at least five mistakes)?!?!" thing before they or the other person even gets on the trajectory of at least trying to make up for that mistake.
I actually do believe that people can, do and should change. I believe we should encourage that at every turn. I also believe that people going on offense and pushing the idea that those who are hurt or disgusted by someone's behavior are the real villains actually makes it harder for people to change and to have any kind of redemption arc.
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I think that concern over cancel culture sometimes is just hyperventilating. We put too much effort into worrying about whether or not someone like Louis CK was "canceled", or reinstated.
I'm not a huge standup comedy fan, I prefer slapstick or the Shakespearean - like "mistaken identity" comedies (the tv show Frasier was great at this type of comedy) to get my laughs, so I may not be the best one to judge Louis CK, but my thoughts about it were that he went outside societal norms and got some karma from it. But it doesnt bother me that he is back.
He crossed a rather obvious line and a few after that. Hard to imagine what was going on in his mind since it clearly was not rational.
You’ve got to hand it to Louis C.K. Actually, there’s no need to hand it to him.
I can’t imagine even considering asking a completely non intimate acquaintance to jerk off in front them let alone actually do it but to each their own. People in positions of power like this regularly get away with a lot more messed up stuff than this. Look how long Cosby got away with his fucked up shit.
That said my sentiment towards the comment below is best described by my favorite Black Rifle coffee mug:
Just say no ...... done
Whipping out your johnson then proceeding to play with it is an accident????
It slipped out...
Then it was cold, I had to keep it warm...
ok...stop
I don’t begrudge the guy his fetish so long as the participants can truly be said to be giving genuine consent. It sounds like some women felt pressured to take part and I don’t know for sure if that’s Louis’s fault or their own failing. Later intimidation from his manager, though, is where this clearly crosses a line for me. If this is your thing, own it, and don’t threaten people who might share the story.
That wasn't right at all but I'm not sure it was CK who ordered it. I don't think CK saw himself as an authority figure and he probably saw these women as just fellow comedians and friends. It's all about perception and intention. He perceived them as friends, they perceived him as someone who could help (or hurt) their career, so they acted friendly to him. His intention was to enjoy a kinky masturbation fetish with a consenting friend, so he asked permission. Their intention was to be friendly to a guy they thought could help their career. Their perception and intention of him and the relationship is what caused them to fear saying no, but that's on them not him. You know most women would say no even if he had a gun to their head, where are they and did he get them fired for saying no? He's not going to list all the women who've said no and they're not going to come forward unless he actually did hurt their careers, so I'd say he probably didn't.
I had heard that, too, which makes me want to give him the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, did he whip his dick out and then ask permission? Because I don’t think we can give him credit for that.
I understand and acknowledge the concept of relative power intimidating people, but is there - or rather, should there be - a point where we hold the “victim” responsible for the choices they make? If someone is saying “yes” to further their career, might they be part of the problem?
I know there have been women, for example, who said “no” to Harvey Weinstein and they believe it hurt their career. I feel bad for them, but they still made the right choice, even if it was a difficult one. But they were the rare exception. If everybody said “no” maybe that kind of thing would stop.
He asked permission, then when he got it he asked “are you sure?”. You have to question the motivation of someone who makes it perfectly clear that it’s okay if you want to jerk off in front of them.
Right. I think it’s a valid question, but I’m sure just asking it will offend someone. Who is more slimy? The guy with his dick in his hand? Or the person seeking to advance their career by watching him?
I think you should know something about the other person before you go for it. The natural assumption would be that the woman wouldnt like it. Im sure there are those that do, but there is some responsibility to find that out first before the act. He came off like a Brett Kavanaugh.
Well I don’t think they were strangers, but there’s no excuse for asking permission in the first place, imo. He readily admits that now, and has incorporated that notion into new material. It was a stupid thing and nobody was hurt, time to move on. I didn’t watch the Grammys so I can’t comment on that.
I think the problem is most people think CK is a perv because they don't share his tastes and as a perv he must be guilty. A sex act is a sex act and how weird or wild it is doesn't change the legalities of consent. If he had asked "do you want to have sex?" "are you sure?" and she said yes both times do you think people would view that as some sort of sexual assault the way they view what he did? Just because you or I find something icky doesn't make it wrong or illegal.
Born To Hand Jive Baby....
I’ve seen Louis CK live twice in the past two years, loved his shows Lucky Louis, and Louis, shows he’s produced like Baskets, and I never tire of his comedy. His legacy will go down as being a master of his craft. I got my step son and his husband to watch his latest standup special, and they laughed their asses off and were repeating the jokes days later - even though much of the material was centered on sexuality and gender issues. He pokes fun at himself and the predicament he put himself in, and the crowd cheers wildly. The fact is he did something stupid and perverted, but he did ask the two women if he could do it, not once but twice - and they did not just say no either time. There’s blame to go around. I couldn’t care less about a Grammy, but he deserves the legacy of being in the same company as the comedy greats.
He really is genuinely funny. Before this scandal, though, he was already freaking people out in this age of anti-comedy. I remember that joke he told on SNL about the neighborhood child molester. I thought it was hilarious, but he got a lot of grief for it. People just cannot handle that it’s a joke. I wonder if that fed the outrage.
People say, ”Oh, you can’t joke about that!” No, sorry, you can joke about anything. It can be healing. We used to understand that.
You should hear his latest material. He has doubled down on the shock value, and it’s impossible not to laugh. His current tour starts with a bit about little girl panties that will make you shoot milk out of your nose.
But Rosie, you're all right
(You wear my ring)
When you hold me tight
(Rosie, that's my thing)
When you turn out the light
(I got to hand it to me)
Looks like it's me and you again tonight, Rosie
Song by Jackson Browne