Uvalde Police Officer Admits Cops Saved Their Own Kids From Robb Elementary Before Stopping Shooter

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  buzz-of-the-orient  •  one month ago  •  73 comments

By:   By Sanika Nalgirkar

Uvalde Police Officer Admits Cops Saved Their Own Kids From Robb Elementary Before Stopping Shooter

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Uvalde Police Officer Admits Cops Saved Their Own Kids From Robb Elementary Before Stopping Shooter

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As details emerge about the tragic shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, police officers are facing backlash for what appears to be a slow response to reports of an active shooter on campus.

Reports state that police took up to an hour to stop the alleged shooter, 18-year-old Salvador Ramos, by which time  19 children and two teachers  were already killed.

This was after a  911 call had been made by Ramos' grandmother  after she was allegedly shot by Ramos at home, before he left for the school.

Shortly after that, another call was later made by someone who saw a crashed vehicle near the school and a person with a rifle going into the school.

While the police went to the scene soon after, it took them a while to go into the school. It was later revealed that some police officers went into the school to save their children first.

A Uvalde police officer said some cops saved their own children from Robb Elementary School before the shooter was stopped.


A police officer admitted that the police went inside the school to save their children first rather than stop the shooter.

The officer said, “There [were] some police officers'  families trying to get their kids  out of school because it was an active shooter situation.”


The officer continued to talk about the situation while trying to justify the officers that went in to save their children initially.

He said, “It’s a terrible situation right now and just as we mentioned the loss of life. It’s a terrible, terrible tragedy that took place.”

Parents begged police officers to enter Robb Elementary School to stop the shooter.


As the news of the shooting reached the parents, many rushed to the school and reportedly found police gathered outside, waiting to organize a tactical team.

Witnesses claim officers  gave conflicting explanations about needing help unlocking a door even though the shooter had already entered.


Video shows devastated parents pleading with officers to enter the school as the cries and screams of the children could be heard inside.

In an attempt to calm all the parents, one of the police officers claimed that they were trying to do something and that some of the men were going inside.


"We got guys going in to get kids. They're working," said one of the officers on the scene.

Police officers were outside the school for up to an hour before storming inside and killing the shooter.


Lt. Chris Olivarez also talked about police officers trying to get into the school. When the police officers reached the school, the shooter had barricaded himself in the school while opening fire on the teachers and students. 

"There was not sufficient manpower at that time, and their primary focus was to preserve any further loss of life," he said.

"They started breaking windows around the school and trying to rescue, evacuate children and teachers while that was going on." 


It was about an hour before the police forced themselves inside the classroom and killed the shooter. 


Article is LOCKED by moderator [Buzz of the Orient]
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Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    one month ago

Could this be true?

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
1.1  Gulliver  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    one month ago

I'm not going to pile on the police officers taking an hour to get a handle on the situation.

How are they to know how many shooters there were? The shooters in America are as well armed and armored as the police are. Up here in New York I might expect the first course of action to be to attempt to establish communication with the hostage taker. Evacuating the building before going full Tarantino doesn't sound like a bad idea either. 

Now the parents are complaining that they would have gone in there themselves to get their kids. I can understand why the cops would need to restrain some of them. And I can understand how the parents feel.

None of this is the parents fault. None of this is the cops fault. This is the fault of the psycho with a pair of AR15s who decided to mass murder at a primary school.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Gulliver @1.1    one month ago

Check out this npr story...

https:// www.npr.org /2022/05/27/1101754167

5 hours ago ·  Uvalde  school shooting: Mistakes ... showed that a child in one of the locked classrooms was on the phone with 911 for an extended period — and requested  police  to be sen

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
1.1.2  Gulliver  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.1    one month ago

The more I learn about this the more it seems easy to characterize the police as cowards.

But I feel this is a trap.

This isn't the first school shooting where we pointed at the people in uniforms and acted like it was their job to go and die for the completely absurd gun dystopia we have created. 

What does this mean moving forward? Do we need to have better orientation training and contracts for police offices so they know it is their job to go and die for us in active shooter situations?

I think the trap here is that this blame game is a fig leaf for a gun problem that we cannot and will not address. These AR 15s need to go. And why on earth can civilians buy body armor?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.1.3  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Gulliver @1.1.2    one month ago

I have not seen before, in previous mass shootings, the delays, and I mean from the phone contacts to any action even being started - and I'm not talking about the delays of going into the school.   And even Abbot himself said he was misled originally and thereby withdrew his support for the story told him by the police. I'm sure we will be finding out more about this.

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
1.1.4  Gulliver  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.3    one month ago

I hear what you are saying and it does seem like there are layers of scandal mounting upon this incident. But I don't believe a word coming from Governor Abbot. One of the first things he said was that the shooter was armed with a pair of handguns. That is some NRA deflection taking place there.

Even if these cops were cowards destined for the Guinness Book of Records I still feel this is a bit of a trap. What is the takeaway? Is the good guy with a gun theory of a secure state still operative? Do we need better guys with guns? Heroes with guns?

Have at the blame game, America, at the end of the day America just has too many guns and way too easy access to assault weapons and body armor. Enough is enough. Would we be so slow in dealing with an epidemic of pyromaniacs? 

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Quiet
1.1.5  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Gulliver @1.1.4    4 weeks ago
Would we be so slow in dealing with an epidemic of pyromaniacs? 

Yes. The liberals would be calling for a ban on fire, turning that into a debate on whether or not the public should be in control of something with such devastating and destructing power, instead of looking at the greater societal sickness that is plaguing the US. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
1.1.6  MrFrost  replied to  Transyferous Rex @1.1.5    4 weeks ago
Yes. The liberals would be calling for a ban on fire

Keep on spreading that fear. 

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Quiet
1.2  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    one month ago

Buzz, the information they are releasing now really makes you scratch your head.

This was preventable, at several different points, after the grandmother was shot.

He wrecks his vehicle in some sort of drainage ditch, breaking the wheels off, gets out and starts shooting (according to the border patrol mechanic). This is still 20 minutes before getting to the school, but after the 911 call. Uvalde has a population of 15,000. That's about the size of my town. It doesn't take 5 minutes to respond, and shots from an AR would be heard from all over town. He clearly didn't sneak his vehicle into the ditch. This kid did as much as he could to get the attention of the cops half an hour before entering the school. Yet...entered unobstructed, without confrontation...Something stinks about that. 

The school door was unlocked, even though granny had been shot, and some asshole is clearly driving wildly, and shooting randomly at people at the cemetery? Bullshit.

The school claims on facebook it went on lockdown 40 minutes later than when this fucker was wrecking his vehicle, hopping out and randomly shooting...apparently near the school...and allegedly after he had already entered? You've gotta be fucking joking me, right? 

I have a serious, and I believe legitimate, question as to who was funding his spree, where they are now, how much influence they had, etc. I'm not buying for a second that a high school dropout bought two AR-15s, and over 300 rounds of ammo, in a 2 day period, with his own funds. One of the rifles is reported as being Daniel Defense. New Daniel Defense AR...that's $1,500.00, at the bottom end. What was the other rifle? Doesn't matter, at a minimum, the cheapest he could get one would be $500. Ammo? $0.50-1.00 a round. So, the high school drop out spends at a minimum $2,200.00-$2,500.00 to equip himself the days before? Bullshit. If he did, I'm moving to Uvalde, and applying for whatever free money program that fucker was on. More than likely, the combined value of the rifles is around $3,000.00, and I'm betting the spend was between $3,200.00 and $3,500.00. I'm not saying its impossible for him to have that amount of money laying round. Looking at the setting, I am saying I seriously doubt it. Somebody bank rolled this fucker.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Masters Principal
1.2.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Transyferous Rex @1.2    one month ago
Somebody bank rolled this fucker.

In all probability, unknowingly, his grandmother probably got tapped for the money. He more than likely stole it from her.

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Quiet
1.2.2  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.2.1    one month ago
In all probability, unknowingly, his grandmother probably got tapped for the money. He more than likely stole it from her.

Could be true. Grandma and grandpa don't look like they were funded to the extent that wouldn't notice that much money coming out of their account though. Maybe he stole it over time? Could be true. Again, I think he'd be taking $5-10 here and there. That's a helluva lot of swiping, not to mention saving. Is he pawning stuff off? Again, could be true. Still tend to believe that's a helluva lot of pawning without gramps and grandma noticing shit is missing. Stealing from neighbors...same thing. 

Allegedly, Oasis employees claim they don't remember him buying guns. One wonders how long their security video is stored. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2.3  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Transyferous Rex @1.2.2    one month ago

There is so much to be explained, and you have pointed out some real doozies, so I guess in time a lot more will be discovered and reported.

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
1.3  squiggy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    one month ago

Yes, and another reason to be skeptical of a government statement.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
2  Nerm_L    one month ago

Another conspiracy theory being pushed by journalists for political gain.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Nerm_L @2    one month ago

Not so, Nerm_L...

https:// www.npr.org /2022/05/27/1101754167

5 hours ago ·  Uvalde  school shooting: Mistakes ... showed that a child in one of the locked classrooms was on the phone with 911 for an extended period — and requested  police  to be sen

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
2.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1    one month ago
5 hours ago ·  Uvalde  school shooting: Mistakes ... showed that a child in one of the locked classrooms was on the phone with 911 for an extended period — and requested  police  to be sen

The provided link reaffirms that this is a conspiracy theory being pushed by journalists.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Senior Guide
2.1.2  Snuffy  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.1    one month ago

I read the story from the link, I'm not seeing what you are talking about.  Can you point it out

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
2.1.3  Nerm_L  replied to  Snuffy @2.1.2    one month ago
I read the story from the link, I'm not seeing what you are talking about.  Can you point it out

The conspiracy theory is that the cops could have prevented this, the cops could have stopped this.  How?  By storming the room and killing the fucker with their guns.  Or by shooting the fucker before he got into the school.

The cops were never in control of the situation.  But that's unimportant.  The cops had guns.  And the cops could have shot the fucker a lot sooner than they did.  Guns are power.  Guns solve every problem.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Senior Guide
2.1.4  Snuffy  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.3    one month ago

Ok, thanks.   But I don't take that as a conspiracy theory.  The cops have admitted they messed up by calling it a barricade situation when it was still an active shooter situation.  The process on how to handle an active shooter changed after Columbine.  They have even admitted they should have gone in sooner.  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
2.1.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.3    one month ago
The conspiracy theory is that the cops could have prevented this

How is that a conspiracy?  Who is conspiring, to do what?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
2.1.6  Nerm_L  replied to  Snuffy @2.1.4    one month ago
Ok, thanks.   But I don't take that as a conspiracy theory.  The cops have admitted they messed up by calling it a barricade situation when it was still an active shooter situation.  The process on how to handle an active shooter changed after Columbine.  They have even admitted they should have gone in sooner.  

The conspiracy theory is that the outcome would have been different if the cops had gone in sooner. 

A barricade situation also includes the possibility of hostages.  A barricade situation also includes the possibility of ambush.  The shooter wasn't wandering around the school like Columbine so the situation didn't fit with an active shooter scenario, either.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
2.1.7  Nerm_L  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.5    one month ago
How is that a conspiracy?  Who is conspiring, to do what?

The seeded article is making the claim that the cops saved their own kids before stopping the shooter.  

People are pointing out that the cops could have (which translates to the cops should have) stormed the room sooner.  That argument is only supported by hindsight.  But the seeded article is overlaying a motive onto the cops waiting; the cops were saving their own kids first.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
2.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.7    one month ago
the cops were saving their own kids first.

So you think that the cops conspired.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
2.1.9  Nerm_L  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.8    one month ago
So you think that the cops conspired.

No, that's what you are supporting.  I'm the one that pointed out that the claim is a conspiracy theory.  A ton of bullshit is being heaped upon me because I'm not accepting that conspiracy theory.

From my viewpoint the cops did their job.  People are trying to pump life into the conspiracy theory by claiming the cops could have done something different or could have stormed the room sooner.  But those claims are only supported by hindsight and not by the situation as it unfolded.  

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
2.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Nerm_L @2    one month ago

Shut the fuck up Nerm.

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
2.3  Gulliver  replied to  Nerm_L @2    one month ago

Thank you.

Somehow this is supposed to be the school shooting that shows us that we don't have too many guns and too many of the wrong guns but rather a culture of cowardly security guards and cowardly police officers.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
2.3.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Gulliver @2.3    one month ago
rather a culture of cowardly security guards and cowardly police officers.

Okay (deleted), when have you ever stepped up? 

2 tours in Iraq, and am currently a police officer. I don't feel like I have ever been a coward, even when I was scared shitless. I did my job as best i could. 

What is the bravest thing you have done?

Offensive language deleted (Buzz of the Orient)

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
2.3.2  squiggy  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.3.1    one month ago

Sounds like you'd be better off on the street sweeper.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
2.3.3  Nerm_L  replied to  Gulliver @2.3    one month ago
Thank you. Somehow this is supposed to be the school shooting that shows us that we don't have too many guns and too many of the wrong guns but rather a culture of cowardly security guards and cowardly police officers.

The argument being made is that there weren't enough guns.  The argument is that the cops should have stormed the room and engaged in a fire fight.  The cops should have blazed away and killed the fucker.  Be brave, kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

The problem is we have too many kids who don't see a future for themselves.  We have too many kids that don't feel they belong.  The Ramos kid didn't have anything to gain by doing this.  But the pertinent question is what did the kid have to lose?

You can blame guns, you blame cops, you can blame God.  Wag that pointy finger at whoever you want to blame.  But in the end the important question is what did this Ramos kid have to lose?

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
2.3.4  mocowgirl  replied to  Nerm_L @2.3.3    one month ago
The problem is we have too many kids who don't see a future for themselves. 

Who is responsible for making kids see a future for themselves?  

Should that future be based on the individual's personality and skills? 

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
2.3.5  Gulliver  replied to  mocowgirl @2.3.4    4 weeks ago
Who is responsible for making kids see a future for themselves? 

People older than kids?

Should that future be based on the individual's personality and skills?

I guess it kind of sucks when you have the personality of a psychopath and all you really know how to do is shoot a gun.

Can we take a moment to contemplate the real victims in all of this?

(Psychopaths who only know how to shoot guns.)

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.3.6  Texan1211  replied to  Gulliver @2.3.5    4 weeks ago
People older than kids?

PARENTS.

Can we take a moment to contemplate the real victims in all of this? (Psychopaths who only know how to shoot guns.)

No, KIDS, TEACHERS, and those left behind.

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
2.3.7  Gulliver  replied to  Texan1211 @2.3.6    4 weeks ago
PARENTS.

Parents aren't the only adults who mentor the kids in our society.

I think it was Eleanor Roosevelt who said, "It takes a village."

No, KIDS, TEACHERS, and those left behind.

Something we can agree on.

Butt what will we do about all the sociopaths with guns?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.3.8  Texan1211  replied to  Gulliver @2.3.7    4 weeks ago
Parents aren't the only adults who mentor the kids in our society.

Well, thank God I didn't say THAT!

Some of us still think parents should be teaching kids certain things, not leaving that responsibility to "others".

I don't agree with "it takes a village". 

Butt what will we do about all the sociopaths with guns?

I say to secure schools now to protect teachers and kids. The technology exists to do it now and we don't need to wait on politicians to pass meaningless laws that stand a good chance of doing nothing to protect them, and a better than even chance of not being enforced effectively.

THEN we can talk about securing funding for mental health facilities, and ensuring that "psychopaths" don't get guns.

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
2.3.9  Gulliver  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.3.1    4 weeks ago

I think you took my comment to mean the opposite of what it was intended to mean.

rather a culture of cowardly security guards and cowardly police officers.

The public conversation has quickly pivoted from blaming weapons like AR15s and tactical body armor being easily accessed by a deranged 18 year old to pointing the finger at cops who supposedly were acting cowardly.

Back on 911 all those cops and firemen died running into and up the stairs of a burning skyscraper while at the same time helping many civilians to safety.

I am not willing to pile blame on the police in an incident like this until all the facts are in. And, at the end of the day, police are not legally obligated to die for us or our children. 

I remain more focused on the gun problem than the "cowardly police problem" that even the liberal press seems more than happy to join in on.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
2.3.10  MrFrost  replied to  Gulliver @2.3    4 weeks ago
cowardly police officers.

Police officers make up a representative cross section of any society. There will be cowards in any group you pick, that doesn't mean that all of them are cowards. 

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
2.3.11  Gulliver  replied to  MrFrost @2.3.10    4 weeks ago

I was characterizing the news cycle's spin on the tragedy.

It concerns me that both right wing media and liberal media have decided to pile blame upon the police. It is essentially buying into the "good guy with a gun" theory of dealing with our assault weapons problem.

Cops are often, ironically, on the side of the gun rights enthusiasts.

Maybe some of them need to rethink that if the rest of us are going to make them walk the plank for us. 

[It's also becoming increasingly obvious to me that my comment 2.3 was not clear in its intent.]

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
2.3.12  mocowgirl  replied to  Gulliver @2.3.5    4 weeks ago
People older than kids?

What "people"?  Parents?  Family members? Teachers?  Strangers on the street?

Who is actually responsible for mentoring children?  

Psychopaths are born.  Sociopaths are created.  Narcissists are most likely created.  Regardless, of whether mental illness is the result of nature or nurture, even trained professionals have varying degrees of success in helping the mentally ill deal with life.   Most, of society, is not equipped to understand mental illness or to help the victims. 

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
2.3.13  mocowgirl  replied to  Gulliver @2.3.5    4 weeks ago
I guess it kind of sucks when you have the personality of a psychopath and all you really know how to do is shoot a gun.

Where does a person find the most psychopaths?  In professions of authority over others.  Do we want these professionals to mentor our kids?

The 10 Professions With the Most Psychopaths | Inc.com

According to a fascinating (if not exactly easily actionable) recent PsyBlog post,  psychopaths aren't evenly scattered through the population . According to research done by psychologist Kevin Dutton called the Great British Psychopath Survey, some jobs seem to attract them and have higher than average numbers of psychopaths among their practitioners. And sorry, business leaders, you're not going to like which gig tops the list:

  1. CEO
  2. Lawyer
  3. Media (TV and radio)
  4. Salesperson
  5. Surgeon
  6. Journalist
  7. Police officer
  8. Clergyperson
  9. Chef
  10. Civil servant
 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
2.3.14  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  mocowgirl @2.3.13    4 weeks ago

Damn, I made the list but at least I’m number 10.  Surprised that military officers are on there.  I had more authority as one than as a civil servant although now I’m responsible for more money.  

Some can credibly argue that civil servants aren’t really responsible for the money that they oversee.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
2.3.15  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  mocowgirl @2.3.13    4 weeks ago

Wow!!!  Never realized I was almost a top psychopath.  

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
2.3.16  Gulliver  replied to  mocowgirl @2.3.13    4 weeks ago

A good place to hope children find mentors is school.

I’m certainly not encouraging them to find mentors on Craig’s list.

It’s obvious why parents aren’t enough. Nature doesn’t prevent selfish losers from having children.

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
2.3.17  Gulliver  replied to  mocowgirl @2.3.13    4 weeks ago

Here's a snippet from Wikipedia:

Robert Hare claims that the prevalence of psychopathic traits is higher in the business world than in the general population, reporting that while about 1% of the general population meet the clinical criteria for psychopathy, figures of around 3–4% have been cited for more senior positions in business. [4] [183] [184] [ page needed ] Hare considers newspaper tycoon Robert Maxwell to have been a strong candidate as a "corporate psychopath".

A glance at those professions and you can see that some of them demand nerves of steel, and in the case of surgeons, a touch of Hannibal Lechter.

It goes to show that with the proper mentoring some traits that could be useful to Dexter as a serial killer could wind up being of service to society in professions that demand them. 

But all dad knows to do with his psychopathic traits is shoot beer cans with an AR15, what chance does junior have?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
2.3.18  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Gulliver @2.3.17    4 weeks ago
A glance at those professions and you can see that some of them demand nerves of steel, and in the case of surgeons, a touch of Hannibal Lechter'

My g astrointestinal oncological surgeon at Johns Hopkins performed Mother of all Surgeries on me. This cytoreductive surgery plus hyperthermic intraperitoneal chemotherapy lasted over 17 hours with an assistant surgeon.  His hands were all over the inside of my abdomen as he removed the  lining of my abdomen, my appendix, spleen, gall bladder, and portions of my small and large intestines and scrapped (my words) cancer off of my diaphragm and bladder.  For me, he was a frigging miracle worker who literally saved my life.  

I spent days researching for one of the best in the country and I found him.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
2.3.19  charger 383  replied to  Gulliver @2.3.16    4 weeks ago
"Nature doesn’t prevent selfish losers from having children"

That is a big part of many problems

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
2.3.20  mocowgirl  replied to  Gulliver @2.3.16    3 weeks ago
A good place to hope children find mentors is school.

I am not sure I am understanding your position.

Are you saying that it is the responsibility of teachers to mentor students in life/social skills as if they were their parent?

 

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
2.3.21  mocowgirl  replied to  Gulliver @2.3.17    3 weeks ago
A glance at those professions and you can see that some of them demand nerves of steel, and in the case of surgeons, a touch of Hannibal Lechter.

Definitely.

It goes to show that with the proper mentoring some traits that could be useful to Dexter as a serial killer could wind up being of service to society in professions that demand them.  But all dad knows to do with his psychopathic traits is shoot beer cans with an AR15, what chance does junior have?

The majority of psychopaths are not killers, but the majority of killers are psychopaths.  

Again, psychopaths are born, not taught so dad did not teach junior to be a psychopath.  Dad (or other mentors) may have made junior a sociopath.

How can anyone, who understands these mental disorders, expect teachers and/or fellow students to mentor psychopaths/sociopaths?  

Psychopaths do not have empathy or feel love.  Their relationships are based on self-gain.  

Why would anyone demand that a person (especially children) try to form a relationship with a sociopath to mentor them?

Interactions with psychopaths and sociopaths should be left to the professionals who are trained to deal with them.  This is why the federal budget must be tailored to supply schools with more professional mental health personnel and building and staffing more mental health facilities for adults.

Psychopaths Aren’t Always Violent (In Fact, Most Aren’t) – Psychopaths In Life Psychopaths are by no means always violent and whilst they do exist, the stereotype of the violent psychopath is by no means the most common form of psychopathy in the general population. Far more common is the scheming, conniving, manipulative psychopath who prefers to inflict psychological damage to his victims. These types of psychopath are the most common and remain at large in the general population.

and................

Sociopath vs. Psychopath: Characteristics & Differences (verywellhealth.com)

The Differences Between Sociopaths and Psychopaths

Sociopaths and psychopaths are individuals who have specific types of   antisocial personality disorder   (ASPD). This mental health condition causes behaviors such as disregard for rules, lack of guilt, violating other people's rights, difficulty having healthy relationships, inability to care about other people, and emotional issues. Symptoms of antisocial personality disorder typically show up in the early teenage years.

Sociopaths and psychopaths have some common traits, as well as characteristics that set them apart from each other. 1

Sociopaths may exhibit the following traits:

  • Breaking the law
  • Physical aggression
  • Manipulation of other people for personal gain
  • Anger and hostility
  • Unpredictable mood swings
  • Impulsive behaviors
  • Chaotic and dramatic life
  • The exploitation of other people
  • Irresponsibility
  • No guilt or remorse

Sociopathic people are often quick to get angry and defensive when confronted about their behavior. They also often have legal issues and unstable personal lives.

Psychopaths may exhibit the following traits:

  • Feeling few (if any) emotions
  • Sadism (pleasure from causing pain to others)
  • Lack of care for others
  • Pathological lying
  • Charming personality
  • Lack of fear
  • Risk-taking behavior
  • Unreliable in relationships
  • Inability to love
  • No remorse for wrongdoing
  • Poor judgment
  • Lack of life goals

Unlike sociopaths, psychopaths do not typically explode under pressure. They might even "underreact" to dangerous or stressful situations. Psychopaths usually avoid developing relationships, and relationships they establish are often for the purpose of using people for their own gain. They do not have strong morals or a "conscience"—the part of a person that makes them feel bad for causing pain to others.

Signs and Symptoms in Childhood

Certain childhood behaviors can be signs that a child will become a sociopath or psychopath in the future. 2

These include:

  • Physical aggression toward others
  • Animal abuse and cruelty
  • Lying
  • Stealing
  • Consistently breaking the rules
  • Destroying property
  • Sociopathy

    The exact causes of sociopathy are not well understood, but it is believed that a person's environment plays a large role. For example, children who experience physical, sexual, or emotional abuse are more likely to become sociopaths. However, not all sociopaths have been abused.

    Children who are neglected or don't form bonds with caregivers early in life also have an increased risk of developing sociopathy.

    Psychopathy

    Researchers believe that genetics and biology play a much larger role in psychopathy than sociopathy. People with psychopathy tend to show symptoms at a younger age than sociopaths, which also points to the theory that people are "born with it," in some cases.

    Psychopathy can be related to dysfunction in an area of the brain called the   amygdala , which is responsible for a person's ability to react appropriately to potentially dangerous or threatening events. 4   This part of the brain also helps regulate emotions.

    Several other parts of the brain—such as the prefrontal cortex, temporal cortex, and paralimbic structures—have also been found to have changes to their structure and function in people with psychopathy.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    4 weeks ago

If we are talking about who is mentoring the kids, these days I would say it is those who influence them on social media.  When I was a kid, it was parents, teachers and our specific religious leaders, besides the fact that one's friends also had an effect, but we didn't have the wondrous benefits of the internet, personal cellphones and social media and actually were surprisingly able to survive with only face-to-face contact, home telephones, radios and snail mail.

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
3.1  Gulliver  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    4 weeks ago
If we are talking about who is mentoring the kids, these days I would say it is those who influence them on social media.

I'm not sure I would call those influences mentors.

If I recall, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates severely limited their children's tech use. That speaks volumes.

 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3.1.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Gulliver @3.1    4 weeks ago
"If I recall, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates severely limited their children's tech use. That speaks volumes."

Obviously people with brains and common sense - unfortunately they are only considered models for how much money they have.   Where I live, what Jobs and Gates are doing voluntarily is mandatory.  I expect that the beneficial results of that will become obvious in the near future, when compared with the results of laissez-faire. 

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
3.1.2  Gulliver  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.1    4 weeks ago

The internet can do some wonderful things for people. One thing it is really good at these days is giving people access to free educational materials like recorded lectures, free ebooks, and in some cases a chance to even get some sort of credentials from those efforts.

The internet can also do a not so laudable job in robbing people of their ability to concentrate and can feed them a steady diet of radicalizing propaganda. The job of a real mentor these days would be to help young people take advantage of the good things the internet can offer while helping them not fall into the traps.

Someone here was suggesting that the only mentors children should have are their parents. That sounds a bit like a person who views children as personal property as opposed to individuals with rights and their own lives to live.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
3.1.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Gulliver @3.1.2    4 weeks ago

Exactly, Payton Gendron and Salvador Ramos just showed us that they weren’t personal property, but individuals with rights and their own lives to live.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
3.1.4  afrayedknot  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1.3    4 weeks ago

What are you defending, here?

Or are you simply content in being the site contrarian?

Should that be the case, then simply fuck off. And fuck off every time you selfishly think your contributions deserve any further explanation. Every time. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
3.1.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @3.1.4    4 weeks ago
What are you defending, here?

Defending?  

And fuck off the next time you somehow think your contributions deserve any further explanation. 

What made you think that I expected any explanation from you?

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
3.1.6  Gulliver  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1.3    4 weeks ago

I used to read books about sociopaths and it is not clear to me with a "troubled" youth with both a history of being abused and a history of abusing small animals how the nature/nurture thing plays out. The personality checklists they use for adults to spot psychopaths are pretty much useless for teenagers. Everyone is apparently a sociopath in their teen years.

So this brings us back to guns. Why can anyone buy two AR15s and body armor on their 18th birthday? Why should anyone be able to buy an AR15?

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
3.1.7  afrayedknot  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1.5    4 weeks ago

Fuck off. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
3.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @3.1.7    4 weeks ago

Thanks, when I got tired of working today I logged off and then logged on to NT and fucked off the rest of the day.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
3.1.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Gulliver @3.1.6    4 weeks ago
Everyone is apparently a sociopath in their teen years.

I’ve never abused small or large animals, did you in your teen years?

Why can anyone buy two AR15s and body armor on their 18th birthday? 

You’ve got me.  They can vote and join the military as well but not drink beer.  I’m not defending the logic of our laws.  Some even think that you should be able to choose gender modification procedures while in your youth.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3.1.10  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Gulliver @3.1.2    4 weeks ago

The problem with the internet is the dangerous side of it - the massive audience, the misinformation, disinformation, conspiracy theories, outright lies, ability to influence in negative ways - A girl in Germany was able to convince an American boy to commit suicide - As many are the advantages of the internet, my personal opinion is that it can be more harmful than beneficial.  Thomas Edison did not need the internet, nor did Albert Einstein, nor did Dr. Martin Luther King, nor did Sir Winston Churchill. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
3.1.11  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Gulliver @3.1.6    4 weeks ago
Why can anyone buy two AR15s and body armor on their 18th birthday? Why should anyone be able to buy an AR15?

kavika pointed out the report of body armor was wrong and has been since corrected, he now supposedly had a "tactical vest" Lots of pocketses (best gollum impression) and no armor.

 as for the rest of the question even 18 year old have constitutional rights  that once they reach adulthood ( age of majority ) that are protected , now if we wish to discuss , raising the age to 21 , then along with that , raise the age for registration for selective service(draft age ) to 21 not that i think there will ever be a draft again . and since that age gets raised , so too should the legal age to vote , if they cant be drafted , then they have no need to have a say in those who would send them to war which would also blow the wind out of the sails of some who think 16 yr olds should be allowed to vote . .

 seems like Pandora's box  to me , go one way and all the other things fall.also seems to have something to do with that equal protection under the law things too.

 
 
 
Gulliver
Freshman Guide
3.1.12  Gulliver  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1.9    4 weeks ago
I’ve never abused small or large animals, did you in your teen years?

I think I had grown out of it by then.

Still wet the bed and start fires though.

But that might be the Alzheimer's.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.13  mocowgirl  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @3.1.11    4 weeks ago
now if we wish to discuss , raising the age to 21 , then along with that , raise the age for registration for selective service(draft age ) to 21 not that i think there will ever be a draft again . and since that age gets raised , so too should the legal age to vote , if they cant be drafted , then they have no need to have a say in those who would send them to war which would also blow the wind out of the sails of some who think 16 yr olds should be allowed to vote . .  seems like Pandora's box  to me , go one way and all the other things fall.also seems to have something to do with that equal protection under the law things too.

I agree.

However, I support raising the age for buying guns, enlisting for military service and voting to 21 years of age.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
3.1.14  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.13    4 weeks ago

some would say that is a possible "ripple " effect .

 thing is even if the age is raised , that wont stop , those under the age decided from getting them.

 an example of that would be hunting , one can be under a certain age , BUT still have the tool for hunting , the gun can be bought by a parent in the parents name and be used but the individual that cant legally "BUY' them . thats how i started hunting , my parents bought the guns because i was not legally of age , but legally i was of legal age to take part in the activity of hunting . And all my kids went through the same thing when i took them hunting , and im watching my grand kids start to get interested in the activity and are in the same boat , they are old enough for the hunting lic , but cant buy a gun legally at the moment .

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.15  mocowgirl  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @3.1.14    3 weeks ago
an example of that would be hunting ,

I am old enough to remember when the boys had rifles in their trucks in the school parking lot at my high school.  NONE of them ever even threatened anyone with a gun.

In today's world, what are the statistics on underage kids, raised to hunt, using their guns to murder people?

 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
3.1.16  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.15    3 weeks ago

LOL and i am old enough that i was one of those "boys " that had a shotgun in the rack of the truck at school during hunting seasons .

 It was a different time , different place and a different mentality than today for sure .

 cant answer the statistic question ,  but a lot will have to do with definitions and details , and there lies the devil , in the details and how things are defined  .

 
 
 
Snuffy
Senior Guide
3.1.17  Snuffy  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @3.1.16    3 weeks ago

You are so right, it was such a different time and a different mentality.  I can remember walking into high school with my shotgun and a belt of shells because we were going pheasant hunting right after school, stored my  gun and the shells in the principles office with no issues.  Different world...

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
3.1.18  charger 383  replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.15    3 weeks ago

That was the world I grew up in.  We had a biggest deer contest at school and hunter safety in phys ed class

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
4  charger 383    4 weeks ago

Make age 21 to be adult for everything, if not mature and responsible enough to own a gun or drink they can not be responsible and mature enough to vote.  Can have it both ways, either full adult or still a minor and parents need to be responsible .  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
4.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  charger 383 @4    4 weeks ago

How about getting a driver's licence?

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
4.1.1  charger 383  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1    4 weeks ago

16 is fine with me for driver's license

I am not one of those calling fo 21 to be age to buy rifle, just pointing out if they can't be trusted with a gun then they should not be able to vote. 

At 18 I had a Roadrunner, M1 Carbine rifle (semi auto) and could buy beer and voted and was going to college.  I was fairly responsible.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
4.1.2  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  charger 383 @4.1.1    4 weeks ago

I got my learner's permit when I turned 15, and during that age always had to have an adult driver beside me when I drove, but I got a regular licence when I turned 16.  However, I was just thinking about kids driving that age, and wondered if there are any statisics setting out the rates of accidents based on specific ages, such as 16, 17, 18, etc. 

The only guns I ever owned in my life were a water pistol and a cap gun when I was a kid.   Never in my life have I missed not having one.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

Saw this great cartoon...while looking for one of people bowing down to a golden gun idol, like the golden calf.  

6a00d8341bf80c53ef017ee715823b970d-600wi

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

This article has been up for a week, has earned 72 comments, and there really isn't anything more to say about this issure until an investigation comes up with some truths about what happened, so I'm locking this article for good at this point.  I have other fish to fry (apologizing to the "catch and release" guys).

 
 

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