The Tipping Point of Stupid

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  hallux  •  2 months ago  •  75 comments

By:   Mark Leibovich - The Atlantic

The Tipping Point of Stupid

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



D onald Trump   has a knack for making his most committed apologists look like complete imbeciles—even if they are not complete imbeciles, though many of them are. This has been true for several years. But in recent weeks, Trump’s trickle-down idiocy has become a significant midterm-election issue for Republicans, and a drag on some of the party’s most vulnerable Senate candidates.

If you’re a candidate seeking a GOP nomination, Trump’s blessing can be a political wonder drug. But it comes with debilitating side effects. These go beyond the standard debasements that Trump inflicts on his dependents (for instance, Trump boasting at a Youngstown, Ohio, rally on Saturday that J. D. Vance, who is   running for Senate there , was “in love” with him and “kissing my ass, he wants my support so much”). Assuming an acceptable Trumpian posture requires a determined self-lobotomy. In most states, it’s nearly impossible to pass yourself off as an election-denying   January 6   truther and still be taken seriously by a majority of voters. Yet many candidates who clearly know better are doing exactly this.

You might be a media-slick, Ivy-bred brainiac like Vance or Dr. Mehmet Oz, and even admit backstage that you don’t really believe the asininity you’re spouting. As a general rule, though, discerning swing voters tend not to differentiate between fools and those who just play them on TV.

Not every Trump knockoff is faking it, of course. The former president has mainstreamed an authentic collection of cranks, bozos, and racists. The preponderance of safe, gerrymandered seats probably ensures continued employment in the House for the loony-tunes likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene.

The trickier proposition for Republicans involves statewide elections in toss-up states—which is why someone like Greene would almost certainly never win, say, a Senate race in her home state of Georgia. (The actual Republican nominee, Herschel Walker, is himself bananas, but also something of a special case given that he was a University of Georgia football legend.) While the primary successes of Trump’s protégés have saddled Republicans with, as Mitch McConnell put it, low   “candidate quality” —people like Walker, Oz, and Blake Masters in Arizona—the former president has imposed a mental headwind against even the most seasoned GOP incumbents. It is to their great disadvantage, at least with most college-educated voters, that remaining Trump-accredited requires shaving dozens of IQ points off an otherwise sound candidate’s brain.

I was contemplating  this phenomenon the other day as I watched Senator Marco Rubio of Florida beclown himself in service to the man he used to openly loathe. As Trump’s opponent in 2016, Rubio was one of those ostentatiously  saddened and troubled  candidates who kept lamenting that Trump was turning that campaign into “a freak show.” Before Rubio became a cast member in the freak show himself, he talked a lot about how dangerous Trump was, how he would not trust Trump with nuclear secrets if, God forbid, he were ever to become president. Perhaps he was worried about something like Trump stashing deeply classified documents in his Mar-a-Lago closets.

During a recent interview, a Florida TV host asked Rubio, who is facing a reelection challenge from Democratic Representative Val Demings, about the Department of Justice’s efforts to retrieve those classified documents. Rubio dismissed the matter as a   “storage issue.”   DOJ, he argued, doesn’t “deny he should have access to those documents. What they deny is that they were not properly stored.” ​​Rubio’s self-correction to Made MAGA Man apparently compelled him to downplay Trump’s frightful conduct, even though it was something he obviously would have screamed bloody murder about if Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton had done the same. This was not a mere “storage issue,” at least not primarily. It was a “Why is the former president refusing to relinquish scores of classified and highly sensitive documents that don’t belong to him?” issue.

As the top Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Rubio is clearly aware of this. But he’s been playing this game for a while, and he knew what was required of him. He spoke in his usual rat-a-tat of righteously rehearsed lines, and he did not appear to be having much fun. In fact, Rubio sounded miserable, as he often does when called upon to defend Trump’s indefensibles. He seemed to fully anticipate scorn and ridicule raining down.

It did, but mostly from people who don’t like Rubio anyway. In Florida, a state the former president carried twice, Rubio is probably right that it’s more important to avoid angering Trump or his supporters. But the overriding hassle was that Rubio had to be talking about this topic at all two months before his election. I might have felt a twinge of sympathy, except no one was forcing Rubio to do this.

F rom the get-go,   Republican officials have had to contort themselves in ridiculous ways to navigate Trump’s reality-distortion field. Sean Spicer became the paradigmatic example when the ill-fated White House press secretary spent his second day on the job vomiting his credibility into thin air by insisting—on orders from the new boss—that Trump had drawn a bigger inauguration crowd than Barack Obama had, despite   clear visual evidence to the contrary .

We’ve gotten so used to the Trickle-Down-Idiocy Effect that it no longer engenders surprise, let alone outrage. It goes well beyond candidates having to perpetrate lies or offer preposterous explanations such as “storage issue,” “alternative facts,” “ normal tourist visit ,” and whatnot. Trump’s reckless claims and behaviors have led his dependents into a minefield of topics that, in previous campaign cycles, would likely never have come up, let alone be so fraught.

Absent Trump, Republican candidates in 2022 would be able to focus on subjects that would be more favorable to them and their party, such as inflation, crime, and Biden’s unpopularity. Trump continuously muddles their efforts and requires them to dwell in the bizarre realm of his narcissistic delusions. From Trump’s perspective—and therefore, much of the GOP’s perspective—that world never advanced beyond November 2020. He has done his best to ensure that the stolen-election myth has remained the most important issue in America.

Candidates are well accustomed to playing to the base for the primary and then pivoting to the center for the midterms. Savvy voters understand and tolerate this to a degree. But Trump has made finessing the gap far more complicated.

Dr. Oz, for instance, was recently asked whether he would have voted to certify Biden’s election if he had been in the Senate on January 6. He was never a full-on “it was rigged” guy, but he was always careful to be vague about it. “We cannot leave 2020 behind,” he   said   more than once during his primary campaign. He was much more definitive this month, however, in response to the question about Biden’s certification. “I would not have objected to it,” Oz   said . “By the time the delegates and those reports were sent to the U.S. Senate, our job was to approve it, which is what I would have done.”

By opting for the sky-is-blue answer, Oz took the risk of antagonizing Trump and his election-denying supporters. Was he smart to answer this way, or reckless? Did Trump—being Trump—place Oz in a no-win position where he would come off as either a kook or a traitor?

Oz received this question during a press conference in which he was endorsed by the Republican senator he was vying to replace, Pat Toomey. Again, in any rational political world, the backing of the retiring incumbent would be a straightforward plus. But Toomey’s name has become pure sewage in Trump World over his vote to convict the former president in his second impeachment trial. Trump was reportedly not pleased by Oz’s certification blasphemy or by his willingness to appear with Treasonous Toomey. But props to Oz for doing the bare minimum.

J.D . Vance   was no Trump fan at first; the Yale Law grad and Silicon Valley venture capitalist once likened the future president to “ cultural heroin .” But since converting to MAGAism, Vance has proved a righteous acolyte. On the holy-grail issue of 2020, he has maintained that the election was stolen, sparing himself, at the very least, the embarrassment of whiplash.

Vance can be cavalier at times, taking stupid much too far. Back in February, he appeared on Steve Bannon’s   War Room   podcast and   declared , “I don’t really care what happens to Ukraine one way or the other.” I have no idea whether Vance really felt this way or was just engaging in performative indifference and isolationism in an effort to mimic the couch-potato parochialism of his patron (Trump) or the   “flood the zone with shit”   nihilism of his host (Bannon).

But Vance paid a price. His “I don’t care about Ukraine” grenade detonated in his own face when Vladimir Putin launched his unprovoked invasion a few days later. People in both parties rallied behind Ukraine, most notably in northeastern Ohio, home to one of the   largest concentrations   of Ukrainian Americans in the country. Vance later issued a cleanup statement in which described the Russian invasion as   “unquestionably a tragedy.”

Like Rubio in Florida, Vance is vying to represent a GOP-trending state that Trump won twice, so he probably has a bigger cushion to absorb whatever pain his election lies cause him. He remains a   slight favorite   in his race against Democratic Representative Tim Ryan.

In a less Trump-hospitable state, Vance would have a much harder time. New Hampshire’s Don Bolduc became the latest toadying Trump endorsee to see his apparent faith rewarded, having won the state’s Republican nomination for Senate this month. He spent more than a year as a loud and unrelenting election denier, but just 36 hours after winning the primary, he made a screeching 180. Bolduc, a retired Army general,   said   he had “come to the conclusion” that the vote “was not stolen” after all. “I’ve done a lot of research on this,” he claimed. (They always do a lot of research!)

Presumably, Bolduc was trying to make himself look like a reasonable general-election candidate, and not a total idiot.


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Hallux
Junior Principal
1  seeder  Hallux    2 months ago

In the meantime we can watch DeSantis practise the 'Supplicant's Dance'.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Hallux @1    2 months ago

deathsantis's $1.6 million immigrant charter flight was nothing more than a kickback scheme perpetrated on florida taxpayers.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2  Kavika     2 months ago

Some of those supported by Trump are five steps beyond bizarre. 

The latest being someone that was caught lying about being in combat. He wasn't and was nowhere near combat.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @2    2 months ago

in the rear behind the gear, like most republicans that ever served.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
2.2  afrayedknot  replied to  Kavika @2    2 months ago

“…beyond bizarre…”

The gop conundrum. Play to the trumpist base at the risk of alienating what’s left of the moderates and independents or alienate the base and lose 30% of the vote. The course some candidates are making in the competitive races is indeed bizarre. Those in safe districts or races are fully and unapologetically on board the crazy train.

These midterms will be historic, if not hysteric, but the gop leadership structure as currently constructed is not sustainable. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.3  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @2    2 months ago

the first domino of stupidity fell on 11/8/16 and the rest of the GOP dominoes have been falling ever since...

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3  JohnRussell    2 months ago

Leibovich is one of the best commentators on the Trumpian madness. Read everything you can of his. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
4  Dismayed Patriot    2 months ago
"his most committed apologists look like complete imbeciles—even if they are not complete imbeciles, though many of them are."

I think it's pretty clear that being such a disgusting liars committed apologist makes one a complete imbecile, even if they're not normally imbeciles. It doesn't matter whether they have a college education but truly believe Trump is the best thing to save America or if they are a 4th grade drop out confederate flag flying white supremacist who believes Trump will save their precious "white conservative Christian culture", being a Trump apologist makes one a complete imbecile.

It didn't matter whether they were just a deluded victim or were playing some 3D chess when many people became Jim Jones followers. It didn't matter if they had a 60 IQ or 160, when they drank that cool aid they were all complete imbeciles sharing the same fate.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5  Sparty On    2 months ago

The attempted gaslighting of America.  

Brought to you by the resist movement and the Democrat party.    Sponsored by George Soros, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice and assorted other establishment pieces of shit.

Your next comeuppance will arrive in about 46 days.

Enjoy!

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
5.1  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Sparty On @5    2 months ago
The attempted gaslighting of America.

Every side is worthy of 'comeuppance', yours no less than others. Perhaps you are too young to have learned or too mired in dotage to remember.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @5.1    2 months ago
Every side is worthy of 'comeuppance'

Ahh, but that's not what Herbert Marcuse taught!

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
5.1.2  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.1    2 months ago

Marcuse was never one of my mentors.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @5.1.2    2 months ago

Obviously. I wasn't talking about you Per sey.

He was also one of the founders of cancel culture.

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
5.1.4  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.3    2 months ago
He was also one of the founders of cancel culture.

Ah, he managed to infect both sides. Off with his head!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @5.1    2 months ago

Ah but you see, I don’t have a side.    Perhaps you are too sophomoric to grasp such concepts as you make assumptions which are not correct.

Besides, the midterms will make my point for me.    Your time is coming up North as well.    Canadians are finally waking up to Little Lord Fauntleroy’s tyrannical ways.    It’s only a matter of time now ..... down below 40% last I looked......

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
6  magicschoolbusdropout    2 months ago

But in recent weeks, Trump’s trickle-down idiocy has become a significant midterm-election issue for Republicans

NO .............. It "IS" a constant significant Mid-Term Issue for Democrats.

Goes to show that Most Folks on the Democrat side don't really pay attention to what is really being said by Democrats Stumping for Election or Re-Election. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
7  Greg Jones    2 months ago

Trump's support among Republicans is probably around 15%....at most.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Greg Jones @7    2 months ago

I think DeSantis can beat Trump in the GOP primary, if it's one on one. If there are more candidates in the race, the advantage swings to Trump. I really hope Trump realizes how hard it will now be for him to win the general election.

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
7.1.1  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1    2 months ago
if it's one on one.

... it will be a bullfight of all gore and no glory. I look forward to it.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @7.1.1    2 months ago
I look forward to it.

I don't.

I'm just hoping the left will find someway, somehow, someday to indict Trump.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
7.1.3  pat wilson  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.2    2 months ago

You've certainly changed your tune.

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
7.1.4  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.2    2 months ago
I'm just hoping the left will find someway, somehow, someday to indict Trump.

As is DeSantis ... 2 peas in a pod syndrome.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.5  Vic Eldred  replied to  pat wilson @7.1.3    2 months ago

I want to win.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.6  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.2    2 months ago
I'm just hoping the left will find someway, somehow, someday to indict Trump.

I wish 'the right' would stop defending Trump and detach him from the GoP.

It is a real shame that so many in the GoP continue the decline of the GoP by keeping Trump relevant.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
7.1.7  Nowhere Man  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.6    2 months ago
It is a real shame that so many in the GoP continue the decline of the GoP by keeping Trump relevant.

It is actually the democrat/liberal psychophants that are keeping him relevant... The more hate you spew, the more you try to destroy him the more relevant you are making him...

YOU are putting him on a pedestal, YOU are turning him into a martyr, YOU are creating his support, YOU are feeding the hate... 

YOU! the Democrats themselves, are creating your own downfall... WE are watching the destruction of freedom in America... WE have a propaganda office charged with making sure everyone conforms to the governments version of facts, WE have a federal police force that has been politicized and weaponized over the last two years, (actually much longer than that) just openly in the last two years...

The most ignorant political move in American political history...

Democrats see this as an opportunity to destroy what they consider their enemies, what they are actually doing is consolidating and strengthening their enemies both internally and externally....

It is beyond dispute anymore... Democrats, the ones in power now are directly trying to destroy the foundation of this great nation...

It's not going to happen... The pendulum always comes swinging back with a vengeance.... 

AS we get closer to November you will see them get even more outlandish in stirring up hate and trying to create the spark that will start their dismantling of our freedoms....

What was predicted in the '50's is coming true today.... It may not be communism, but it is socialism, which will revert to communism quickly, cause in a socialist environment absolute authority is needed to make it work in this large a nation... And nobody gets what they need...

My only hope is that we can stop it before it gets to that point, without bloodshed.... But I fear it is too late....

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.1.8  devangelical  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.1.7    2 months ago

what a completely delusional comment.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.9  TᵢG  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.1.7    2 months ago

Right off the bat you illustrate that you do not know what you are talking about: deeming me a D or a liberal fails on either count.

(Psychophant?   Good grief man, get a clue.)

Next, your premise is that it is not the MAGA R's but Ds and liberals who keep Trump relevant.    That ignorantly misses the fact that Trump is only relevant by virtue of those supporting him.   If Trump did not have supporters he would wane to political irrelevance.   It is those who care about Trump's endorsements, who defend Trump absurdly at every turn no matter what, and who would vote for him to be the nominee of the party and then PotUS who keep him relevant.

Obviously.

And worse, Trump supporters apparently do not realize the damage Trump has and continues to inflict on the GoP.   Just amazing to watch people fawn all over a demonstrable pathological liar and narcissist who has shown that he will even trash the nation just to spare his ego the embarrassment of losing an election.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
7.1.10  Nowhere Man  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.9    2 months ago
Just amazing to watch people fawn all over a demonstrable pathological liar and narcissist who has shown that he will even trash the nation just to spare his ego the embarrassment of losing an election.

Well demonstrable pathological liars have been in power for two years now, they can't seem to get beyond their insane hatred for a man who hasn't had any power for two years, they are perverting every law imaginable to try and destroy him for almost seven years now and have come up with NOTHING! after promising the world moon and stars...

The embarrassment is with the full power of the government at it's disposal, they have DONE NOTHING BUT KEEP TRUMP'S NAME IN THE NEWS CYCLE...!!!!

Who is keeping him relevant? it certainly isn't people that have not voted for anything over the last almost two years... It is the MEDIA, at the behest of Democrat politicians and Democrat political appointees who are throwing anything and everything around to get something they think they can make into a viable way of killing him off...

The Hate campaign Hillary started has brought out the Hate that is inherent in Liberal Democrats The hate of everything truly American, like fair play, we are all in this together, it's like there are two nations contained within one...

And when confronted with the truth all one side can do is resort to insults and the same old vague promises that they will succeed...

Hate never wins My friend... Socialists like you will eventually learn this... But probably long after we are both dead and gone...

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
7.1.11  Ender  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.1.10    2 months ago

Hahaha...wait...I need to read the second paragraph...

Hahahaha

OMG...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.12  TᵢG  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.1.10    2 months ago
Well demonstrable pathological liars have been in power for two years now, they can't seem to get beyond their insane hatred for a man who hasn't had any power for two years, they are perverting every law imaginable to try and destroy him for almost seven years now and have come up with NOTHING! after promising the world moon and stars...

It makes no sense to speak of pathological liars given the bar established by Trump.   Either acknowledge the historic precedent setting level of public and grand-scale lies by Trump or find some other dimension on which to criticize Biden.

Who is keeping him relevant?     

Already explained that:

TiG@7.1.9 It is those who care about Trump's endorsements, who defend Trump absurdly at every turn no matter what, and who would vote for him to be the nominee of the party and then PotUS who keep him relevant.

Hate never wins My friend... Socialists like you will eventually learn this... 

A clear illustration that you come back to this site to troll.   Labeling me a socialist when you know damn well that is incorrect and nothing in either of our comments have anything whatsoever to do with socialism is obvious trolling.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.13  JohnRussell  replied to  Nowhere Man @7.1.10    2 months ago

This is one of the most preposterous comments I've ever seen on NT. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.14  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.12    2 months ago
Labeling me a socialist when you know damn well that is incorrect

Its not a personal insult to you, it is evidence that right wing fanatics like him call everything they dont like about America socialism. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.15  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.14    2 months ago

Agreed, but it most definitely was intended as a personal insult.   The poster speaks about lies and then engages in the practice in a gratuitous fashion.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.16  Kavika   replied to  Nowhere Man @7.1.10    2 months ago
Socialists like you will eventually learn this

LOL, that is one really ignorant comment. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.17  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.6    2 months ago
I wish 'the right' would stop defending Trump and detach him from the Go

I don't think anyone is "defending" him in the way you are trying to perceive it.

Most sane Americans simply see the infatuation of the left on one man that has absolutely zero control over their lives right now, and are doing everything they can to get him out of the public eye.

The heavy handed tactics used on him compared to what would be known as the soft handed way a democrat would be handled for the same accusations is disgusting.

They say they are not afraid of him, but sure as hell have a funny way of not showing it.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.18  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.15    2 months ago
Agreed, but it most definitely was intended as a personal insult.

Many leftists take that term to be a term of endearment and embrace it thoroughly,

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.19  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @7.1.17    2 months ago
I don't think anyone is "defending" him in the way you are trying to perceive it.

That is demonstrably wrong.    Have you not observed people make excuses or demand proof on every single allegation of wrong-doing by Trump?   Have you not seen people who absolutely refuse to even acknowledge that Trump has done wrong?:

  • in his Big Lie campaign (e.g.)
    • suborning Pence to engage in an unconstitutional act
    • coercing Raffensperger to 'find votes'
    • coercing Bowers to submit alternate electors, lying to his supporters with the authority of PotUS that the US electoral process is rigged and that they have been disenfranchised and must act
    • refusing to act for three hours after the insurrection of the Capitol started, tweeting 90 minutes into the insurrection that Pence had let them down, ...)
  • holding TS/SCI documents in his home and thus compromising national security
  • inflating property values by an order of magnitude to secure favorable loans, etc.?

You see right here on a daily basis pathetic, feeble attempts to defend Trump and deflect from the reality of his wrongdoings.   You see demands of absolute proof of guilt while refusing to even acknowledge wrongdoing,  ridiculous dismissals of every single allegation with the blanket excuse of 'witch hunt', promises to vote for Trump for PotUS if he secures the nomination, excuses of 'Trump's policies were good' to dismiss all the bad that goes with him.

It is utterly incredible that anyone would suggest nobody is defending Trump in a way anyone with a brain would perceive it.

Most sane Americans simply see the infatuation of the left on one man that has absolutely zero control over their lives right now, and are doing everything they can to get him out of the public eye.

Case in point of making excuses.    You deflect from all the wrongdoings and suggest that this is all "infatuation of the left".    Do you not see this??

The heavy handed tactics used on him compared to what would be known as the soft handed way a democrat would be handled for the same accusations is disgusting.

Case in point again.   Here you deliver the cliché excuse that this is all Trump being treated unfairly.

They say they are not afraid of him, but sure as hell have a funny way of not showing it.

Not so sure where this is coming from, but any rational mind should be fearful of the possibility that supporters will enable Trump to secure the powers of the presidency.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.20  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @7.1.18    2 months ago

Labeling me a 'leftist' is also intended as a personal insult since you are clearly aware that I do not identify as such.   You do not see me calling people 'leftists', 'socialists', 'righties', 'fascists' ,'wing nuts', or equivalent.   Your stereotyping is insulting;  a better approach is to not label people or make things personal but rather focus on the content of their comments.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.21  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.20    2 months ago
Labeling me a 'leftist

Show me where I said YOU...

BTW, I am not going to waste my time responding to 7.1.19 or subsequent demands because no matter what is posted, it will not be good enough and there will be a continuous demand for answers that will not be good enough until the answer is what you want it to be.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.1.22  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.20    2 months ago
You do not see me calling people 'leftists', 'socialists', 'righties', 'fascists' ,'wing nuts'

... don't forget white supremacists, neo-nazi's, teabags, thumpers, and trumpsters.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.1.23  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @7.1.22    2 months ago

sorry to sound redundant...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.24  bugsy  replied to  devangelical @7.1.22    2 months ago
don't forget white supremacists, neo-nazi's, teabags, thumpers, and trumpsters.

You certainly don't.

That's why you are regarded as one of the highest respected members on here s/

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.25  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @7.1.22    2 months ago
don't forget white supremacists, neo-nazi's, teabags, thumpers, and trumpsters.

No, those are for your use, right?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.26  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @7.1.21    2 months ago
Show me where I said YOU...

Another typical example of lame tactics.   This one seems to be getting popular around here ... the tactic of denying the direct meaning of one's words.

When you reply to me in a post in reference to me being labeled a 'socialist' with:

Bugsy @7.1.18 ☞ Many leftists take that term to be a term of endearment and embrace it thoroughly,

You would necessarily think readers are brain-dead stupid to not see that you were saying that I should not be insulted by 'socialist' since many leftists take that to be a term of endearment.

Pathetic.   If you are going to insult someone be prepared to deal with the rebuttal instead of crumbling with a lame tactic.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.27  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @7.1.21    2 months ago
BTW, I am not going to waste my time responding to 7.1.19 or subsequent demands because no matter what is posted, it will not be good enough and there will be a continuous demand for answers that will not be good enough until the answer is what you want it to be.

You could just wait and someone will tell you what you 'really' meant or said despite what you actually write.

Parsing words is only acceptable if YOU don't do it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.28  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @7.1.21    2 months ago
BTW, I am not going to waste my time responding to 7.1.19 or subsequent demands because no matter what is posted, it will not be good enough and there will be a continuous demand for answers that will not be good enough until the answer is what you want it to be.

Yeah, right, bugsy.   I am sure readers are buying your bullshit.  256  

You make an argument, I rebut it, you have no counter so you make excuses.

I you cannot deal with my rebuttals, I suggest you not challenge me.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.29  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.27    2 months ago

Tell me, Texan, what did Bugsy really mean @7.1.18?    Explain to me how he was not suggesting that I am a 'leftist'.

I expect deflection / trolling will ensue.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.30  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.27    2 months ago
You could just wait and someone will tell you what you 'really' meant or said despite what you actually write. Parsing words is only acceptable if YOU don't do it.

Happens all to often.

Some don't accept that others think different than them, and essentially demand that the person answer them in a way that makes some feel superior.

I'm not going into that trap.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.31  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.29    2 months ago
Tell me, Texan, what did Bugsy really mean @7.1.18?   

Why don't you tell me like you tell me what I think or say?

Does it even matter what others think when you will tell us anyway?

Explain to me how he was not suggesting that I am a 'leftist'.

He can and has explained himself quite well.  

I expect deflection / trolling will ensue.

Your expectations don't matter to me. Just because someone dares to hold a different opinion doesn't make them trolls.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.32  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @7.1.30    2 months ago
I'm not going into that trap.

Some people don't even need any other participants to have an argument.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.33  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.31    2 months ago

Of course, you cannot support your claim and merely deflect.   As expected.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.34  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.33    2 months ago
Of course, you cannot support your claim and merely deflect.   As expected.

What claim are you referencing?

What deflection have you imagined now?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.35  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.32    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.36  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @7.1.35    2 months ago

[]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.37  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.9    2 months ago
Psychophant? 

did he mean to type sycophant?

psychophant is not a valid word....Scrabble says so

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.38  Texan1211  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.37    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.2  Kavika   replied to  Greg Jones @7    2 months ago

Not what the latest poll says.

The Morning Consult-Politico  survey released Wednesday  found that 52 percent of Republican primary voters would support Trump, who is followed by Florida Gov.  Ron DeSantis   with 19 percent.
 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.4  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @7    2 months ago

Let's test that.

If Trump were the R nominee, would you vote for him?

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
7.4.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  TᵢG @7.4    2 months ago

I haven't voted for him yet, see no reason to vote for him now...

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
8  Nowhere Man    2 months ago

Good for y'all...

I see none of you guys schtick has changed has it...

Hate, hate and more hate...

Someone disagrees and all you got is insults...

And you all call me ignorant... Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, ha....

Silly me for thinking it might have changed...

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
8.1  Gazoo  replied to  Nowhere Man @8    2 months ago

Nope, it hasn’t changed. Disagree, get insulted. Express a view get called a “fascist” or some other off the wall bs some idiot hears on a liberal news show and decides to be polly the parrot. Or get called a partisan by a partisan. Or get called a racist by a racist. I rarely comment anymore  because the left, and those that claim they aren’t left but clearly are and are too fucking stupid to see it, make this a very toxic place for conversation.
Most of the time i just read comments. Laugh at the really hateful ones (there are many), laugh at the really stupid ones (there are many), laugh at the extremely arrogant ones (not as many because this category cuts it down to one poster, and vote up comments i agree with. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Gazoo @8.1    2 months ago

Lots of whining taking place with precious little thoughtful commentary.   Lots of victims who are treated unfairly yet their comments are predominantly pathetic personal attacks instead of dealing, in an adult fashion, with the content of the comments and topics presented.

The topic in this seed is the MAGA wing of the GoP's absurd excuse-making, deflection and ultimately support of Trump no matter what he does.   Look at the commentary from those who would defend the MAGA wing.   It makes things personal and deflects from the topic.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @8.1.1    2 months ago

At least half of the right wingers who comment here are trolls to one extent or another. Until that is addressed things will never get better. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
8.1.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.2    2 months ago
At least half of the right wingers who comment here are trolls to one extent or another.

Exactly, we rarely see that from the left wingers here.  They almost always provide thoughtful, comprehensive replies with linked evidence cited and no personal attacks.  The are also willing to call a turd a turd, post copied memes that have nothing to do with the seed but nevertheless are amusing in there own right and aren't afraid to call out trolling when someone foolishly disagrees with them

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2  TᵢG  replied to  Nowhere Man @8    2 months ago

Yeah, you waltz in here, make things personal with me and now whine when you get the appropriate rebuttal.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
8.2.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  TᵢG @8.2    2 months ago

You were the one four years ago arguing that true socialism has never been tried, remember? that communism is not socialism? 

Now your claiming that your side is right and everyone that voted other wise is tearing the country apart... Is a radical trying to destroy the nation... 

And you want to claim that you don't support that crap?

Right...

Liberal eliteism on display...  Your schtick hasn't changed is years... Highly educated but still ignorant as well... Funny, same opinion you now have of me...

You are aware that in 100 years nobody currently living on the planet will be alive to care... So why should I give one damn about what you think of me? I know you don't...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2.2  TᵢG  replied to  Nowhere Man @8.2.1    2 months ago
You were the one four years ago arguing that true socialism has never been tried, remember? that communism is not socialism? 

Attempt to understand how someone can discuss a topic like socialism or fascism or conservatism or liberalism without supporting the ideology or being a member of the group.   Get a clue.

Now your claiming that your side is right and everyone that voted other wise is tearing the country apart... Is a radical trying to destroy the nation... 

This is delusional.   You are inventing pure bullshit out of thin air.   I do not have a side and I never, ever, suggest that one 'side' is all wrong and the other is all 'right'.   Again, you clearly have no concept of what you are spewing.

So why should I give one damn about what you think of me?

What does this have to do with anything?   So far you offer nothing thoughtful and simply engage in making things personal with trollish comments.   Your comments thus far simply degrade this site.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
8.2.3  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @8.2.2    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.3  Kavika   replied to  Nowhere Man @8    2 months ago
And you all call me ignorant... Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, ha....

I called your comment ignorant because it is. Calling TG a socialist is beyond ignorant, if you have been reading his comments you would see your comment for what it is. WHINING when you can't win a debate.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
8.3.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  Kavika @8.3    2 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8.3.2  Kavika   replied to  Nowhere Man @8.3.1    2 months ago

Your comment is a whole lot of assumptions and falsehoods. You should try and stay in reality.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
8.3.3  Nowhere Man  replied to  Kavika @8.3.2    2 months ago

You aught to try a second career as a comedian, cause that is real funny!!!!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
8.4  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Nowhere Man @8    2 months ago

deleted

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Quiet
9  squiggy    2 months ago

Who's hopping-up the far right?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Guide
10  Jeremy Retired in NC    2 months ago
But in recent weeks, Trump’s trickle-down idiocy has become a significant midterm-election issue

Seems the only ones Trump seems to be an issue for is the Democrats and their lemmings.  Especially if you look around here on NT.  I guess its better than  focusing on the Human Fuck Up and his train wreck administration.  You know, things that are happening NOW vs 2 years ago. That would imply the left would have to take responsibility.  We can't have that.

 
 

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