A Proud Boy and Michael Flynn Were Elected to a Republican Executive Committee in Florida
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
The far-right street-fighting gang has been making inroads into local politics ever since coming under scrutiny for their role in the January 6 riot. TOby Tess Owen September 15, 2022, 11:08am
Michael Flynn (L) and an unknown Proud Boy (R). Photos via Getty Ima.
Much like termites nesting in the walls of a house, members of the Proud Boys and other right-wing extremists are quietly building inroads into local GOP politics in Florida.
The latest example of this trend comes out of Sarasota County, where Proud Boy James Hoel—and conspiracy theorist Michael Flynn—recently landed seats on the Republican executive committee.
Retired general Flynn, who is a key Trump ally, and Hoel were elected by voice vote at an event last week, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported.
Hoel's election to the Sarasota County Republican Executive Committee shows that their connection to Jan. 6 has not impeded Proud Boys' ability to operate openly in South Florida and gain a foothold in local politics. Dozens of Proud Boys were arrested in connection with the Capitol riot, and some of its leaders, including former chairman and Florida native Enrique Tarrio, are facing serious seditious conspiracy charges.
In June, the New York Timesreported that half a dozen current or former members of the far-right street-fighting gang had also landed seats in the Miami-Dade Republican Executive Committee (out of 125 seats in total). And last month, at least one of those newly-elected Proud Boys was spotted working as a volunteer poll-watcher in Miami on Florida's primary election day. Last year, even as the Proud Boys were being increasingly scrutinized for their role in the Capitol insurrection, Tarrio, their leader at the time, was slated as a speaker at an event hosted by the Boca Raton Republican committee.
Reached by phone on Wednesday, Hoel said he doesn't have larger political ambitions and said that he wanted to join Sarasota County's Republican executive committee as a way to "stay active" in his community. He also insisted there was zero crossover between his election and his involvement in the Proud Boys. "Being a member of a male fraternity has nothing to do with politics," he said. When asked about photos circulating online that appear to show him near the Capitol on Jan. 6, he said he had no comment on anything related to Jan. 6.
Meanwhile, Hoel's election to the executive committee flies in the face of a statement released by its president, Jack Brill, in June, condemning media reports that appeared to link local GOP candidates or officials to the Proud Boys. "Let's be clear: The Republican Party of Sarasota County is not affiliated with the Proud Boys and will not be," Brill wrote. "We don't even know what they all believe because it is impossible to trust any media coverage. We are not a party of that group and that group is not a part of our Party."
After the Capitol riot, the Proud Boys pivoted away from large-scale national rallies and instead turned their attention to local politics. They've sought alliances around right-wing grievances and culture wars, been a menacing presence at school board meetings where they've joined protests over mask requirements or "critical race theory," and disrupted "Drag Queen Story Hours."
Hoel, fellow Proud Boy Nicholas Radovich, and other members of the group have regularly shown up to Sarasota County School Board meetings and got involved in the contentious school board elections that resulted in a 4-1 conservative majority replacing the 3-2 liberal majority. At least one Proud Boy in uniform joined the victory party for two of the conservative board members in August.
The relationship between the conservative school board candidates and the Proud Boys became the subject of scrutiny in the Herald-Tribune, who ultimately published an op-ed in June headlined "Show some courage, School Board candidates, and call out the Proud Boys."
Radovich's wife, Melissa, penned a rebuttal, which was also published by the Herald-Tribune (and has since been deleted by the paper after receiving considerable backlash). Her op-ed, archived here, was titled "Attacking the Proud Boys does a disservice to caring school parents," and lauded members of the Proud Boys as "fathers, business owners, and veterans."
And meanwhile, Flynn, who previously served as Trump's National Security adviser and was a key proponent of the "Stop the Steal" conspiracy, has been waging his own war in Sarasota County by targeting Brill, the current head of the Republican Executive Committee, on social media for not being MAGA enough. (Flynn moved to Sarasota County in early 2021, months after he was pardoned by Trump for lying to the FBI).
Hoel told VICE News that he doesn't know Flynn personally, describing him only as "a very upright man of integrity with a nice family."
The Sarasota County Republican Executive Committee did not respond to VICE News' request for comment.
(Disclosure: Gavin McInnes, who founded the Proud Boys in 2016, was a co-founder of VICE in 1994. He left the company in 2008 and has had no involvement since then.)
Tagged:PoliticsFloridaGOPSarasotaMichael FlynnProud BoysThe Extremism Deskjames hoel
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Seems that the Republican party is accepting the lunatic fringe.
They already had been doing that. That's why we have the disease of MAGAhats.
Florida has become ground zero for the Proud Boys becoming an elected part of the Republican executive committee in both Sarasota and Miami Dade.
I'm sure we have some of those domestic terrorists in CO, but none of them have been stupid enough to expose themselves. too bad.
[deleted]
Actually, there are Proud Boys and neo-Nazis there.
There are 10 in the picture. Maybe not all of them, but definitely not intimidating.
There are far more ANTIFA and BLM in Colorado. Maybe these group will finally stand off once and for all and completely eradicate each other.
Colorado and the world would be much better for it.
Do you have a link that shows there are more ANTIFA and BLM in Colorado? Of course, Colorado, ANTIFA or BLM are not the subject of the article it's Florida and the Proud Boys and how they have become part of the Republican Party..
Getting rid of them here in Florida would be doing the Republican party a huge favor, but perhaps they don't want that favor and would prefer to wallow in hatred.
Then you should direct this comment to devangelical as he was the one that first introduced them into the thread.
Also, why are you asking me for a link of something you declare not the subject of the seed?
Nope, he did not use either ANTIFA OR BLM, that was you.
If you're going to make a statement I gave you the chance to back it up...Pretty simple
But he did bring up Colorado, one of the items you declared off topic in the post I replied to.
My post stands.
"If you're going to make a statement I gave you the chance to back it up...Pretty simple"
Nope. Not going to fall into the liberal trap of liberals bringing something up, and when they are called on it, the conservative post is deemed off topic and tickets ensue.
That's great but it's still incorrect.
LOL, a liberal trap, wow that comment sure sounds paranoid.
If you responded to the subject of the article you wouldn't have those concerns.
No.....it's not.
"If you responded to the subject of the article you wouldn't have those concerns"
I responded to a post the was was not declared off topic until I responded to it, and your declaration was directed to me ONLY.
devan comment:
He pointed out that they have Proud Boys in CO. You followed with a comment that was taunting and a violation.
I followed with a photo of Proud Boys and Neo Nazis in CO. and you replied with this:
I replied with this:
As you can see I pointed out that CO. ANTIFA OR BLM are not the subject of the article. I did not declare them off-topic nor did I delete your comment.
Now, you can quit digging that hole deeper and actually respond to the subject of the article.
Now, is the time to actually address the subject of the article.
You yourself said Colorado is not the subject, but yet you posted a picture....and made a comment....about Proud Boys in Colorado.
Not sure that the hole being dug is from my side.
BULLSHIT.
You brought up ANTIFA and BLM in comment# 1.1.5 where you said:
"There are far more ANTIFA and BLM in Colorado."
Please CITE your source.
Trolls enjoy digging.
Aww..sounds like someone's having a meltdown.....
Not just accepting. Embracing.
I'm not sure quite how to say this, but Democrats need to take a look in the mirror and wonder how this has gone so far and so fast in this country.
Did anyone hear what Kamala Harris had to say about rebuilding Florida? I heard the quote on Face the Nation.
Translation: It should be a priority to take into account race when giving out disaster relief.
A few more speeches like this one and the entire executive committee will be Proud Boys.
(Maybe it's time to rethink Biden's VP pick for the 2024 ticket.)
To be quite clear I think that her comment was beyond stupid a true foot-in-the-mouth moment. Sure to undermine whatever else she has to say on the matter.
What is bad news for the left is that she believes every bit of it because there is no way she will pull the comment back and anyone would believe it.
Revillug, care to comment on the Proud Boys and the Republican party in Miami Dade and Sarasota?
I don't know what she is going to do, hopefully she'll walk it back.
I'll ask you one last time what are your thoughts on the Proud Boys being on executive committees in both Miami Dade and Sarasota? It seems from the response of the republicans involved they don't have a problem with it.
Saying stupid things is quite a bit different than what the Proud Boys have done.
See, here is the problem.
Rev made a comment about Kamala Harris and you responded DIRECTLY to that post....and a mod upvoted your post......THEN you decided to chide Rev for not responding to the subject of the seed itself.
Exactly what I was speaking about earlier.
OK this will be my last post about this.
No one with a thinking brain will believe her if she tries to walk it back.
Now, if you want others to post only to the subject of the seed, I recommend you stop responding to off topic posts, then chiding people for not talking about the seed.
Just a little friendly advice.
There is no problem for anyone that can read. I didn't chide him, I asked him a question you really should stop inventing nonsense.
So you have nothing to say on the subject, do you support the Proud Boys?
I was being a bit hyperbolic. I don't have much first hand experience with either Florida (beyond half a dozen Miami vacations) or the Republican Party beyond what I witness from the outside.
But even up here in New York City, the Republican Party has played footsie with the Proud Boys. We had an infamous incident a few years ago where a Manhattan Republican Club hosted Gavin McInnes and it ended with violence on the streets between Proud Bots and Antifa.
If the GOP is structured anything like the Democratic Party, county executive committees get populated by a sort of compromise process between party bosses and grassroots activists. So it is no more surprising to me that politicians with ties to the Proud Boys wind up on GOP executive boards than Democrats who are members of DSA wind up with official positions in the Democratic Party at the county level.
Ultimately, all politics is a popularity contest.
If you just had your house blown down by a hurricane, or are worried about that happening in the next hurricane, anyone telling you your skin color is going to make it less likely for you to get help from the government is going to be very unpopular with you.
I remember that incident.
I believe there is quite a bit of difference between the DSA and the Proud Boys I believe both parties are set up basically the same so it is on the party to allow a violent group/person (s) in or not.
I am a resident of Florida and a minority and I believe that I made my stance on her comment clear in my prior comment.
I don't want to go down, or seem eager to go down, a whataboutism rabbit-hole.
We Democrats can't change the GOP. It's on them to change themselves. It's on us to be a more attractive party to vote for and support than the GOP is.
When Democrats start channeling Ibram X Kendi's line from How To Be An Antiracist:
It should be no surprise that quite a few whites are jumping the Democratic Party ship and wind up attracted to a rhetoric that is its exact opposite.
OK, whatever. You go and believe that.
Of course I don't. Just like Qanon and Breitbart, I had never heard of either until leftists began to incessantly complain about them.
The problem the left has is they are not in tune with what Americans look at as their biggest issues they are facing. Liberals think racism (it exists but nowhere near what the left wants us to believe), abortion and the climate are what is the most important, when crime, inflation and illegal immigration is what most Americans look at as the most important factors facing this country.
The proud boys are a blip on the radar when it comes to numbers. They are just a new boogyman for leftists to get eyes off the real ball in the country.
I agree with that but I think it's logical to point out that violent groups like the Proud Boys become mainstream with the parts of the Florida GOP.
Not something that I would do but I get your point.
I believe that the difference Kendi line/comment and the PB is the violence that the PB involve themselves in. Yes, I've sure that some will bring up ANTIFA and BLM but IMO those are two different goals.
I would ask this: Do you think we are in a place where the GOP will be shamed into drumming Proud Boys out of its ranks or that the GOP will simply shrug this off?
(I'm personally pretty hostile to the entire GOP. You know what kills more people in the country on an annual basis than right wing extremist groups? Main stream Republican policies.)
Good to know, but Qanon and Breibart were fairly popular for quite some time, with Micheal Flynn being a spokesman for them.
Those items are important to many Americans and crime, inflation and Illegal immigration are important to many Americans, it's too bad that they all aren't important to all Americans since they will affect all of us in one way or the other.
They are far from a blip on the radar and they are not the new boogyman for leftists since they should be a serious threat to all Americans.
This is not the subject of the seed, but what policies do you think are killing Americans?
The problem with he left is they have no real policies concerning crime, therefore, leftists are killing or mutilating others in left wing cities in record numbers. As an example, there were dozens of Americans killed during the leftist summer riots of 2020. What right wing "extremism" has killed more than that?
That is what is killing more Americans than the little existing, dreamed up, right wing extremism they believe is covering this country.
If Miami Dade and Sarasota are any example they will shrug it off.
The ideology of the proud boys, just like the ideology of far left wing groups should be eradicated.
A combination of both is the threat to all Americans.
How would I respond to this if I were a Democratic strategist, I ask myself.
I would certainly point it out as being a problem and a sign that the GOP is getting coopted by explicitly violent political groups. And that this association with explicitly violent political groups by the GOP is a reason anyone should think twice about voting for the GOP before they get their political house back in order.
But I wouldn't stop there. The Democrats need to get their own house in order, at least as far as message discipline goes.
It's one thing to be explicitly committed to examining every program and law within this country for disparate impact or failure to address disparate impact and it is another, completely, to champion a regime of "anti-racist discrimination." (Kamala Harris just gave a master class in how to go about messaging in completely the wrong way.)
I would also encourage Democrats to disown political violence that comes from the left as opposed to pretending that it simply does not exist. There is such a thing as Antifa and they are usually up to no good. In fact, until January 6 happened, most of the violence that the Proud Boys were getting known for had to do with squaring off against Antifa for politically violent play-dates.
Antifa is a much smaller problem than right wing extremist groups but I think the political calculation of pretending that they do not exist is a mistake.
I tend to disagree with this. Although both are repugnant, right wing extremists have caused nowhere near the violence and damage of ANTIFA and BLM.
Antifa shows up to cause violence to almost every conservative cause protest, even if it is something as mundane as pro life.
Can you point out any event where the proud boys have caused anywhere near the damage of any ANTIFA driven riot? I know the go to for the left is Jan 6, but as it stands right now, only 4 proud boys are on trial for that day.
You are correct, however, that the left pretends that left wing extremism does not exist. Even Biden said ANTIFA is only an idea, not an organization. That is a big mistake.
Then Americans on all sides, rep/dem/indy/green etc should be sure to know and admit they exist and do what is necessary to blunt them. One side saying the other side is the worst is BS and settles nothing.
I've never seen or heard a conservative deny right wing extremism does not exist, however, we have the president of the United States and at least one sitting democrat congressman blatantly say ANIFA is only an idea, not an organization.
That is blunt denial.
I'm sure the proud boys can be just as violent as ANTIFA or BLM, they just have not demonstrated it.
I've seen it plenty of times or the ''yea, but it's not nearly as bad as BLM/ANTIFA'' when in fact the Proud Boys, 3 %, Boogaloo Bois et al are all violent. The Boogaloo Bois have killed cops in Oakland and northern CA. the Proud Boys have been involved in violent confrontations in different parts of the country.
That is a fact...They are all guilty there is not this one is not as bad as that one. That is nothing more than excusing them.
January 6th in Washington DC comes to mind.
The Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville?
Are you limiting your universe of violent right wing extremist groups to just the Proud Boys? There's a whole catalog of problematic right wing groups: the Klan, Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, militias, neo-Nazi groups.
And I really have to ask this - where do you get your information from? It is a very different view of the world than the one I am exposed to.
These two incidents seem to be the two go to events for liberals when they want to try and highlight right wing extremism. Not much else comes to mind for most of them.
According to the seeder, proud boys are the subject of the seed, so I limited my post to them.
However, we have numerous incidents of left wing violence all over the country over the past decades, mostly by ANTIFA and BLM, but if you want to go back farther, we can talk about Weather Underground in the 60s and 70s.
Going back in time for talking points is kind of useless. Go back far enough and the GOP was the party of Lincoln and the Democrats were the party of Strom Thurmond.
What I am more worried about now is the whether the Party of Trump is on its way to resembling the Party of Hitler.
For one thing there are too many guns in this country and that excess of guns and proliferation of kinds of guns that nobody should even have in the first place is a GOP project.
For another, we have one of the worst healthcare systems in the world. This patchwork system of petty profit centers that leaves so many people under insured and unable to access or pay for medical care has real victims.
All that killing is being done with all those goddamned guns people shouldn't have in the first place.
The second amendment says otherwise
And still are
Are you still living in 1865?
Don't have to be
Republicans freed the slaves in 1865
Democrats, ESPECIALLY white liberals, are doing everything to keep minorities in the democratic plantation.
Not much different than the democrats of 1865.
Racist screed.
Just keep outing yourselves....good call.
Everyone here knows exactly what you are.
[Deleted]
Bravo to you Revillug
Flynn is a Putinite, a threat to the American way of life and a total disgrace, and, therefore, he is embraced by the Republican Party.
[deleted]
I'm sure at least one of them will ask you for proof of this because MSDNC and CNN would never dare report on his racist history. So, to beat them to the punch....
Biden is not part of the article, Flynn is.
Why is it that if the democrat party is racist that the majority of minorities are dems vs reps? Is it the ''free stuff'' we get or is it that we can't think for ourselves and belong back on the plantation/rez?
Now get back on topic of the article, or leave.
Fuck off!
Get back on topic or leave, bugsy.
That's the best you have, you're not much of a representative for the right.
Yep. Flynn is a fucking traitor.
Flynn plead guilty butt Trump pardoned him.
Yes, he is.
Flynn has betrayed the values of our country, and he is now aligned with Putin, anti-American neo-fascist militias and the QAnon lunatic fringe.
Michael Flynn sentencing delayed as judge tells ex-Trump official: ‘You sold your country out’
The sentencing of Michael Flynn was postponed Tuesday after the judge told the former national security advisor “arguably you sold your country out” — and warned the fallen Army lieutenant general that he might be sent to jail if he did not agree to delay the hearing.
Flynn was due to be sentenced Tuesday for lying to FBI agents about his conversations with Russia’s then-ambassador to the United States, Sergey Kislyak, in the weeks before President Donald Trump took office. Federal guidelines recommended a sentence of zero to six months in jail.
Flynn’s lawyers and prosecutors from special counsel Robert Mueller’s office were prepared to argue in U.S. District Court that Flynn receive either no jail time at all — given his guilty plea and extensive cooperation with Mueller — or get the low end of the guideline range.
But that plan was immediately thrown into disarray at an explosive hearing at which Judge Emmet Sullivan pressed the defense hard on its recent suggestions that the case against Flynn was unfair. The judge said that looked liked “backpedaling” from the guilty plea.
Sullivan, who also asked if Mueller had ever contemplated charging Flynn with “treason,” later suggested that Flynn might get a less severe sentence once he was actually done cooperating with investigators.
Has anybody mentioned that the Proud Boys are becoming quite reminiscent of the Hitler’s Brownshirts?
Why stop at the brown shirts ?
before them there were the bolshivicks or the klan , after them there were the children of the Khemer rouge in the 70s, and we can find other examples right up to today .
Every movement had their strike forces in society those willing to use violence or terror ( fear) to obtain their stated goals .
Being somewhat in the middle i can see the same thing being said about ,say antifa or BLM, using the same tactics ,pretty much either the perception or actual use of violence or the threat they will do so .And that can include just about any what today is considered a fringe idea .
The ones history has shown to most likely be part of those types of groups are those that are disenfranchised , disgruntled , margianalized or easily maliable to an idea .
I believe it was lenin , that called these folks "useful idiots ", educated just enough to do the jobs required of them in society , but not educated enough to use critical thinking to its full potential .
Now , my opinion is that it isnt those that are on the national stage that are the danger , its the ones in the community itself that take whats said and run with and agitate the discontent and do the recruitment that incites the violence .
But that is just an opinion .
“its the ones in the community itself that take whats said and run with and agitate the discontent and do the recruitment that incites the violence.”
Well said.
Let us acknowledge that the lunatic fringe from both ends of the political spectrum continually exploit those too easily persuaded and are looking for a fight.
Scary times when we consider how good we have it and yet have so many…too many…willing to burn it all down, without a clue as to the ramifications.
Also just an opinion…
one side seems to be considerably more successful at that ...
I think it isn't that I would want to stop with the Brownshirts but the rise of the Nazi party in Germany is a cautionary tale that we should be particularly worried about here in the USA. Germany thought it had strong institutions in place that could survive the rise of Hitler, whom they dismissed as a clown.
This site I found with a quick Google search seems to be about as concise in describing the Brownshirts as any other:
The Brownshirts: The Role of the Sturmabteilung (SA) in Nazi Germany
The Proud Boys have been playing footsie with the GOP since their early days and now they seem to actually be getting their arms around Florida's GOP.
I am not dismissive of the observation that there are violent actors on the left. It is a particular sore point of mine that the Democratic Party has not more forcefully denounced violent groups associated with Antifa or BLM. I want to be clear, though: BLM is a rallying cry and a hashtag that people raise money off of as opposed to an actual organization and there is a lot less Antifa in America than FoxNews would have us believe. But the talking point on the left that there is no such thing as Antifa is complete bullshit. Antifa has networks of communication. Some of them train together in chapters that resemble militias. They have extreme discipline with regard to hiding their identities and not saying a single word to law enforcement until the authorities get leaned on to release them.
But Antifa is not winding up on Democratic Party County Executive Committees.
“…one side seems to be considerably more successful at that ...”
Also agreed.
The vitriol coming from one side is couched in faux patriotism…that they think they are fighting for a principle that when dissected, has absolutely nothing to do with our founding principles.
The other side, while often times misguided in their actions, is at the very least acknowledging injustices that require introspection and at best cooperative action.
Neither is right in their violent reactions as neither is productive.
As fractured as our political system is right now, it is still the best way to effect actual change. Put forth candidates who understand this, are willing to embrace it, and get out the vote.
Again, just another opinion.
That is fairly well open to debate really, it just has not been proven ...yet, time will tell.
Thing is , any of the actors mentioned , would and will end up in these positions , solely at the will of and how the voters in the elections vote locally.
People as their want , will make their own choices , the issue is with the people voting and how they are voting , and that is left to them .
Can you think of any candidate that has run for office that you individually had the opinion they have no business being IN that office , that you had a vote to deny them office? what about someone where you dont have a vote ? outside your jurisdiction?
The ONLY position of office every eligible voter has a say in is the presidential ticket, other than that , its left up to the voters of the voting district that is holding the elections .
But the right wing project of taking over the government also involves getting people in place to overturn election results that they reject.
People may want what they want but authoritarians don't care what the people want. We already witnessed a failed attempt to enter the Capitol on January 6th, 2021 and change the outcome of counting the electoral college votes. The next time the tampering will happen at the state legislature level. State legislatures are empowering themselves to toss federal election results they don't like.
The people can make their own choices and those choices can be damned.
EDIT:
In all seriousness: Trump.
and how is that any different from any other political organization since the creation of little green apples ?
every party always places people favorable to their own interests when ever they come to power on any variety of issues .
way i see it , its like a pendulum , as far one way it swings , it eventually will swing the other way about the same amount in the oposite direction , and in my lifetime , thats what i have witnessed so far .
Hmm. I'll take a crack at this.
Since it is an attempt to change our existing system into something that works differently than it did before, it is different.
Little green apples existed before this change.
Therefore,
I win!
actually , you dont , the current itineration of government and who controlled it by party line replaced the one before it ( one more conservative to a point ) with what is in existance today , some are just use to doing things the way they currently are with the advantages they perceive they have .
now remember that pendulum thing i mentioned , its swinging back the other way , and changes are being made for good or ill.
one thing IS for certain , just as one system exists to benefit one side the pendulum always swings the other way , some / most might not like those changes that swing bring about , politically just as the current situation replaced another , that one replaced the one before it and so on back and will do so going forward .
frankly what IS happening today is no different than what always happens , the government changes to reflect the people whom vote on who will be running it , and with each change in society and the voters , thus the government changes direction as well.
Now what i wonder is will the changes going on now have longer lasting effects than just a blip on the political radar screen or not , to that i dont have the answer , and anyone that claims to , is most likely a fool .
And it is not about winning or losing when it comes to discussing the issue , its actually about understanding the issue and how the issue even came about .
when i think about the politics and its usually the partisan politics , its like playing chess with a chicken , one side or the other will knock over all the pieces , crap on the board , and then strut around like they made some important victory and won . ( I know , usually the bird is a pidgeon , which acurately describes most voters , political parties are always looking for a new pidgeon .)
Given how common overreaction has become, I'm sure lots of people have.
makes you wonder how much antisemitic and nationalist rhetoric, torchlight parades, and the presence of uniformed militias associated with one side had to do with that reaction, doesn't it?
It's like asking a random fat guy wearing a Cowboys jersey in a Wal-Mart for a selfie and an autograph.
It's important to be able to recognize imposters.
The bottom line is that both Miami Dade and Sarasota Republican executive committee have Proud Boys on them.
All names aside that is the facts.
And they wouldnt be on those commitees if the party voters didnt want them there to begin with , so the issue is with the voters , no matter how reprehensable the ideology may be .
That is the point, the membership is voting in Proud Boys and yes it is reprehensable and it would seem that they are totally ok with that position.
OK. Fine.
But let's not get carried away with shit like "brown shirts" or whatever.
You'll not find that I called them or referenced them as ''brown shirts'' my chosen words would be ''ignorant POS, or scumbuckets or akikojiwan moosh nooshes''
See @5.0
Kavika wasn't the one who made the reference so why are you throwing it in his face?
We started this whole conversation with a remark about brownshirts. Of course I know K didn't say that, I was just referring back to where it was originally said.
As you can see I didn't say that, so it's probably best to check the source.
I would have made sure that I referenced it properly like saying "back in post 5.1 blah blah blah..."
I'm sure that Jack can speak for himself and if he feels it necessary to respond to me he is quite capable he doesn't need you as a waterboy.
It's not like the Brownshirts dropped from the sky fully formed in a single day.
I was the one who introduced Brownshirts as a comparison to the Proud Boys. Did you need see the documentary footage of them on January 6th? They showed up in Washington ready to storm the Capitol Building. While Trump was speaking to the crowd, and before Trump directed the crowd to head to the Capitol Building, the Proud Boys were already headed over there and they had a plan.
I would respectfully respond that we should not be complacent with regard to the threat posed by these paramilitary organizations and this one in particular.
I agree with that part.
I just think we've become far too quick to make comparisons to Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union or whatever dystopian society we can think of at the time.
For years now, we've listened to people get dramatic about how Trump was the reincarnation of Hitler or Obama was a socialist or we're all living in The Handmaid's Tale or whatever. It just kills off intelligent conversation.
A man with integrity does not betray his country
Michael Flynn was up to his neck in efforts to cause chaos and disruption following the 2020 election. He attended a White House meeting where strategies to overthrow the legitimate election were proposed, including by him. He suggested to Trump that he should declare martial law and use the military in efforts to delegitimatize the presidential election. Of course he is a traitor, just like Trump is, Giuliani is, and the rest of that crowd.
And that is not even mentioning that Flynn is on video repeating the Q Anon slogan "where we go one we go all" as a deliberate solidarity with those nutbag traitors. .