Pandora's Donald Trump Prosecution
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
The news late Thursday that a Manhattan grand jury has indicted former President Donald Trump is a sad day for the country, with political ramifications that are unpredictable and probably destructive. If there was ever a case that opens Pandora's box, the first indictment of a former President in U.S. history is it.
The indictment itself remains under seal, so we can't examine the specific charges and evidence. But we know the charges relate to hush-money payments in 2016 to adult film actress Stormy Daniels about her alleged affair with Mr. Trump. Perhaps Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg has new evidence that will be compelling.
But nearby, Ethan Greenberg and Sam Braverman offer speculation based on experience about the potential violations and pitfalls of the case in court. Their analysis doesn’t inspire confidence that this will go down well with the country, or even perhaps inside the courtroom.
As these columns have made clear, we believe any prosecution of a former President should involve a serious offense. The evidence should also be solid enough that a reasonable voter would find it persuasive. The last thing a politically polarized America needs is a case in which partisans line up on either side like a political O.J. Simpson trial. The prosecution must be seen by most of the country as an example of fair-minded justice.
That is doubly so when the case involves a former President who is also running again for the same office, as Mr. Trump now is. Add that the prosecutor belongs to the same Democratic Party as the current President whom Mr. Trump is running against, and the suspicion of a political prosecution will be rampant. This is why we urged Mr. Bragg not to revive a seven-year-old case that federal prosecutors declined to act on.
Mr. Trump made clear in a statement that he will make the prosecution part of his campaign—calling it a Democratic effort to deny him another presidential term. Democrats have “done the unthinkable,” he said, “indicting a completely innocent person in an act of blatant Election Interference.”
He will add this to the list of false Russian collusion claims, two failed impeachments, and the FBI’s Mar-a-Lago document raid. Whether that political defense succeeds will depend on how the case evolves in court in what will be a media circus for the ages. Mr. Trump’s reckless personal behavior has made himself vulnerable as usual, but Democratic excess could rescue him again.
And there is no doubt that Mr. Bragg is doing what most Democrats want. They want Mr. Trump in the dock and at the center of the political debate. Even if he’s not convicted, they figure the indictment and spectacle will help him become the Republican nominee. They think he is the easiest candidate to beat because he motivates Democrats and divides Republicans and independents. That is certainly the lesson of the GOP election disappointments of 2018, 2020 and 2022.
Democrats also know that the indictment will put GOP challengers to Mr. Trump in a difficult position. They will have to take a stand on this prosecution, and maybe on others to come. They will be asked constantly about Mr. Trump, and not about the failures of the Biden Presidency that the country should be debating.
The danger for America is the precedent this prosecution sets. Mr. Bragg is busting a political norm that has stood for 230 years. Once a former President and current candidate is indicted, some local Republican prosecutor will look to make a name for himself by doing the same to a Democrat. U.S. democracy will be further abused and battered. Mr. Bragg, the provincial progressive, is unleashing forces that all of us may come to regret.
Tags
Who is online
101 visitors
Every action taken by the left against Trump has been biased & bogus and this case is clearly the most obvious & egregious. Even the hateful old hag that impeached him twice made a fool of herself yesterday saying that the former President, as the accused can now prove his innocence! Such stupid, disgusting people have brought this country to this point. If Republicans realize what these people have done to the country, they may respond in kind and this new precedent may become the norm. Thus, it may be the first time, but it certainly won't be the last.
it was trump's own DOJ that said a crime had been committed. then that pudgy mackerel snapper barr comes in and tells them they couldn't indict a sitting president and calls off the investigation.
michael cohen was tried, convicted, and served time for this crime. "Individual-1" will now have to face the music too. while this criminal case proceeds at a snail's pace, due to the many legal stalling techniques available that will undoubtedly be used by his lawyers, and will probably only yield a legal hand slap and minimal fines to the fascist in chief, the door to his future indictments has been knocked off the hinges and the rule of law will continue to prevail in trump's crimes against democracy, as well as all of his co-conspirators, some of which are still serving in elected office and don't deserve to be there. tough shit, huh?
FINALLY!
That's a wonderful summary. Thanks for the truth/reality/actual facts of the situation (as usual).
Bailiff! Whack his Pee Pee!
Have you always prefered Pee Pee to penis?
Ever since Cheech and Chong came up with it.
I applaud Bragg for his courage and all those in the DA Office there because they knew they would face endless derision and ignorance from the former 'president'.
The death threats from his supporters and enablers because of his call for protests, though the recent protests and the death and destruction he has been calling for have not garnered the same support he's had in the past - had about dozen in support at trump tower - more anti-trump protesters - LOL.
Seems his second incitement for death and destruction and protesting and fighting like hell doesn't have the same attraction as before plus a lot of them are in jail already. Again, LOL.
eeeeeeek!
MAGA are to blame for letting Trump out the box...
Democrats are to blame for violating every ethical standard, moral, and law to "Get Trump at all costs".
They will fake shock and outrage when Republicans get power back and the wheel turns on them.
Thank you for giving Democrats power to turn this country into a third world two tier justice system shithole.
Good Morning, my friend.
What do you think of the morals of people who would destort the law to try and prosecute a former President whom they hate?
what do you think of the morals of people that would attempt to distort the law to try and give a man suspected of multiple criminal acts a pass because he happened to be the president for a single term? a man that never won the popular vote, was impeached twice, and tried multiple ways to subvert democracy in order to stay in power, against the will of the voters.
Although it should have been done in 2016, in 2021, Jan 7th and moving forward, Republicans had a clear path and reason to "throw Trump under the bus". He had sat eating cheetos and drinking diet pop while the nations capitol was being attacked. A clear dereliction of duty and a clear indictment of Trump's fitness to hold public office. But, out of fear of the power of "MAGA", Trump's cult, the republicans allowed Trump to continue his malignant style of politics and prepare himself to run again in 2024.
At this point all hopes for the Republicans and conservatives to do anything to stop Trump are gone. Its up to the rest of society to rid ourselves of this plague.
It could have. But the lack of evidence has proven to be a thorn in the side of "prosecutors".
Good Morning my friend. What do you think of those who look directly at a malicious prosecution and say "let's wait until the facts come in?"
I'm all for waiting for the facts to come in. That's the common sense thing to do. There are a lot of things surrounding this that puts the integrity of the indictment and DA into question.
I for one am certainly eager to see what the charges are and who the prosecution plans to call as witnesses. As things have progressed so far, I'm surprised at the indictment. If Bragg doesn't have someone like Weisselberg in his pocket this will blow up in his face rather spectacularly.
I think Bragg's history will be a serious problem in the courtroom. He's downgraded felonies, there is a question of the statute of limitations, his public statements to "get Trump at all costs", etc.. A good defense attorney could use just those to tear the case apart.
Indeed, like a plague of vermin. Such filth.
It won't blow up in his face.
I would expect the defense to try and use this as a way to get charges dropped, but we don't know Bragg's evidence yet. First we'll have the arraignment, and then the defense can bring all this up at the pre-trial phase. One would hope, for Braggs sake, that Bragg has at least enough evidence to go to trial on - something we haven't yet heard about or this will be a very short process. Nothing here plays well for the Dems unless Bragg gets a solid conviction that can stand up on appeal. He will have to have ALL his ducks in a row and they will have to be absolutely bullet proof. And everyone will be trying to put holes in those ducks.
If he didn't have enough evidence to bring this to trial - this wouldn't be happening. It will stand up on appeal.
Bragg is not a fool unlike those who support/enable the former 'president'.
One would presume, but it's not conclusive until it is.
Even less conclusive given the facts we currently have.
Again one would hope he has all his ducks in a row, but it's not like we haven't seen over eager DAs try and make a name for themselves only to shoot themselves in the foot.
All we know is a grand jury was convened, several witnesses gave testimony and a vote to indict was given and followed up on. We also know this will be watched by the entire world and debated into history. I'd not want to step into this landmine without completely 100% solid multiple eyewitness testimony, but we don't know, and won't know for awhile witnesses or evidence Bragg has. We can assume, presume and contemplate, but we just don't know... I'll save purchasing the conviction party snacks until the verdict is announced.
If someone would vote for Trump, unless they were already MAGA, just because he wasnt convicted in NY they need to have their fucking head examined.
He is totally unfit to be in any office, let alone the presidency , for a hundred reasons, not least of which is he tried to overthrow our government.
It is astonishing that supposedly reasonable intelligent people are still considering voting for him.
Whatever . . .
That and $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee, John.
I would tend to agree, but we've gone way past my original point of pronouncing guilt (of either Trump or Bragg) before a trial. It is certainly rational to contemplate normally reasonable intelligent people may just buy into the persecution angle enough to want to punish Dems next year. There is a long way to go before we know either way. I'm sure we'll see a bunch of polling before too long.
And the defense should use it. As far as knowing Bragg's evidence, I do agree that still remains an unknown factor so far. We can't rule out what we've already seen how the left has been with providing evidence to the defense.
What did Trump do?
Really?
Besides breaking campaign finance laws by secretly paying off a porn star and illegally writing it off as legal fees on his taxes?
Besides illegally retaining secret government documents for a year after their return was officially demanded and lying about it and fighting to keep them?
Besides illegally interfering in the Georgia recount and suborning others to commit crimes and lie to investigators?
Besides conspiring with fake electors to subvert the lawful election of Joe Biden?
Besides conspiring with the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers and assorted MAGA to attempt a constitutional a coup by organizing and mounting Trump's January 6th Insurrection?
Besides all that? There is lots more!
There are 2 problems with that. Trump paid the blackmail out of his personal finances and second the statute of limitations has expired. In addition the key witness is somebody who is a convicted perjurer. We'll all be tuned in for this one.
Besides illegally retaining secret government documents for a year after their return was officially demanded and lying about it?
Trump kept them illegally but Biden didn't? That's an odd code of justice?
Besides illegally interfering in the Georgia recount and suborning others to commit crimes and lie to investigators?
That has to be proven. Good luck with that one as well.
Besides conspiring with fake electors to subvert the lawful election of Joe Biden?
You mean what the democrats did after 5 elections in the modern era. I think you have a surprise in store.
Besides conspiring with the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers and assorted MAGA to commit a coup and Trump's January 6th Insurrection?
That's a new one. You mean like he "conspired with Russia?"
Besides that?
Obviously people with the same midset as you have tried to interfere in another election. It will backfire. Mark my words!
To begin with Trump can try to explain his 30 criminal charges to a jury in New York!
Nope, Our system of justice does not work that way. Maybe in China or Russia it works that way.
Here Alvin Bragg will have to prove the charges.
I don't see how he gets there.
There are lots of things that you can't see.
This is a patently political prosecution.
(deleted)
[Deleted]
Why did you take it down?
Where did that fakeass shit come from?
Hillary's daughter
Another well-informed fucking leftist
Nor do I, however, what you or I know is not enough to cancel a postage stamp whereas Bragg undoubtedly has chariots heaped with boxes of well ordered stamp albums filled to the brim.
Patience my goodfellow, as former pm P.E. Trudeau once opined, "the universe will unfold as it should". Being a devout socialist-capitalist-commie-libertarian-monarchist, he was of course correct.
Read and learn Grasshopper -
Bragg has stepped into FEDERAL territory - an area that he has no jurisdiction over - dat's da law.
Finance charges? Federal elections - Fed law - not NY made up law.
Retaining documents? Fed law - not NY made up law.
Interfering in Georgia? Fed law - not NY made up law.
Conspiring with fake electors? Fed law - not NY made up law.
Conspiring? Happened in DC - Fed law - not NY made up law.
And I betcha that the other 7,000 charges they're trying to "get him on" are also all Fed law.
Bragg is the DA for Manhattan - not the USA - Manhattan is his jurisdiction - period.
.* All references to NYC/NY are meant to cover Manhattan - Bragg's only area of jurisdiction.
There isn't much McCarthy can do. Interfering with a prosecution is itself a crime. He can make as much pollical hay out it as he wants, though and I would expect nothing less.
No, he really hasn't. I'll wait for the charges, but they all look like they will be business fraud charges.
Not applicable to this conversation since Bragg was not investigating this. This is being investigated by a special federal prosecutor.
Not applicable to this conversation since Bragg was not investigating this. This is being investigated by Georgia AG.
Not applicable to this conversation since Bragg was not investigating this. This is being investigated by a special federal prosecutor.
You didn't know. The "get Trump at all costs" means they will publicly ignore their own illegal activity. They've done it in the past, they'll do it again.
Sorry evil - was responding to JBB's "list of charges" - and am glad to see that you understand what I'm saying.
The principal duties of the district attorney are usually mandated by law and include representing the State in all criminal trials for crimes which occurred in the district attorney's geographical jurisdiction. The geographical jurisdiction of a district attorney may be delineated by the boundaries of a county, judicial circuit, or judicial district.
Their duties generally include charging crimes through informations and/or grand jury indictments. After levying criminal charges, the state's attorney will then prosecute those charged with a crime. This includes conducting discovery, plea bargaining, and trial.
In some jurisdictions, the district attorney may act as chief counsel for city police, county police, state police and all state law enforcement agencies within the state's attorney's jurisdiction.
In some jurisdictions, the district attorney oversees the operations of local prosecutors with respect to violations of county ordinances. In other jurisdictions, the district attorney prosecutes traffic matters and/or misdemeanors. In some states the district attorney prosecutes violations of state laws to the extent that the state permits local prosecution of these. District attorneys do not prosecute federal crimes, which are the jurisdiction of a United States Attorney.
Probably, what ignorant shit it is indeed.
We know Chelsea wouldn't say that ignorant shit.
McCarthy is a traitor just like the former 'president' whose ass he is kissing to this day.
What dirt does the former 'president' have on all of these republican traitors?
they've all been promised lifetime positions of power in trump's new 4th reich...
No worries...
McCarty is nothing more, nor anything less, than a partisan politician. He will bend anyway the pollical winds blow, but "traitor" is hair on fire partisan bs. The same as anyone trying to label Biden as traitor. None of this type of talk helps anyone.
They all seem to be forgetting the John Edwards acquittal. 3rd party paid with NO NDA. And it wasn't campaign funds either.
It is funny, although pitiful, to watch people act as if this indictment is not just the tip of an iceberg. As if were Trump was to somehow skate on this charge that would make him acceptable as POTUS again. Bizarre, strange, but funny.
Trump is raging on his Truth Social, posting over 20 'truths' today , most of which are unhinged.
Tell us the truth, do you think Trump is mentally "well'?
This nonsense (his political career) needs to come to an end.
It is funny, although expected, to watch people act as if this indictment is already a conviction. There is no guarantee this will make it to trial. There is no guarantee if this goes to trial Trump will be convicted either. The burden of proof is on the prosecution and it will have to stand up to the most rigorous scrutiny.
I really dont care if he is convicted on this charge or not. It is opening the door for charges on the other more serious charges by removing the taboo of indicting a former president for the first time in history.
Donald Trump is a bad man and needs to be gone from American politics, and frankly, from American society.
Maybe. That has as much chance of working in Trump's favor as it does for the Dems. The framing of the narrative will be Trump's possible guilt vs political persecution. YOU, nor I will know how that ends. It could all come to nothing OR it could end in wide spread violence or anywhere in between.
At this point the American people know as much about Trump as they need to in order to conclude he is completely unfit to hold office. The idea that holding him to account for his bad actions will somehow make him widely seen as a sympathetic character is wishful thinking on the part of his defenders. That ship has sailed on Jan 6th.
What are we supposed to do, say we cant prosecute Trump because some people will think he is being picked on? Its ludicrous.
I'd put him up against Mr. Biden any day but no. His ego is getting, actually has taken control of, his very being. He is like anyone else in this situation (backed into a seemingly impenetrable corner and lashing out.
gee, too bad anything he says can and will be used against him in a court of law, huh?
He is NOT being unfairly "backed into a corner". He is facing the music.
Who said unfairly? Freudian slip there JR?
You won't vote for him, but neither you nor I get to decide who others vote for, or why.
He has a lot of voters and has as much right to sway more voters over as anyone else has.
There is a HUGE difference between saying he could, or even should, be held accountable for possible crimes AND already convicted of crimes without a trial.
That's what's so funny about this indictment (and the remaining three actually) - if the fucking moron had just kept his mouth shut, he wouldn't have been essentially incriminating himself on a daily basis.
Hannity tried to save his ass with the documents that he stole and wouldn't return, TWICE, yet the moron essentially incriminated himself again and again.
With all the counts against him, 34 is it, this is much more than Stormy Daniels, like John has said. Some folks keep conveniently forgetting about the Karen McDougal (I think that's her name) hush money case as well. I just can't imagine what the other counts are for!
Nope.
Well there's a new version of "we got him now". This could easily fail just like the numerous "smoking guns" we've seen from the left.
And continuing to enable and support - defend the indefensible - PD&D - all they have.
The Wall St. Journal and that ilk refuse time after time after time to face reality.
Donald Trump is a bad guy. Bad guys need to be dealt with, not coddled. I am glad this prosecution was brought, because now the other prosecutors considering indicting him have the fear of being the one to set a new precedent taken off their back. I totally expect him to be indicted by one or more of the other three legal bodies currently investigating him.
The Wall St. Journal like many other "mainstream" conservative Republicans, have been slow to criticize Trump and eager to praise him when remotely possible. The word for those types is "enabler". The Wall St. Journal has spent 8 years enabling Trump to trash US standards and norms , and yes, break the law. Today they are doing it again.
No, Joe Biden is a bad guy. A vessel who has politicized and weaponized every inch of the federal government.
The media, who are biased and play loose with the facts are bad guys.
The leftist professors who have indoctrinated 3 generations with Marxist ideology are bad guys.
The radicals who just recently immortalized the transgender killer are bad guys.
Anyone with a moral compas would know right from wrong.
You are another one who doesnt know what he is talking about, not that that stops you.
It is obvious you get all your information about Trump from right wing sources, often far right. Now you will be faced with having to come to terms with reality.
You were the one who swallowed all the propaganda about Russia/collusion.
Now you will be faced with having to come to terms with reality.
I offered you a bet on the outcome. You declined
I cant think of a single thing about Trump that you are prepared to discuss in detail. Because you dont know any of it because you didnt want to know.
This isn't about Trump's character John. This is about politics, precedent and weaponizing the law. Despite what may be a partisan jury, you do know that you cannot win this sham of a case, don't you?
Plausible deniability?
“Despite what may be a partisan jury”
Already making excuses.
I am glad this prosecution was brought
What prosecution John? It hasn't even gone to trial and "probably" won't.
Learn to talk facts, not summations.
why the fuck are you a trump defender?
please, tell us.
========================================
he is prosecuted because the local prosecutor has brought charges against him
Won't tell you any more times John - AM NOT/WILL NOT/HAVE NOT been a Trump defender.
However, will GLADLY crown you with your total misuse of the English language.
At this point, multiple charges have been determined to "bring cause" through the indictment phase. As the charges/cases actually get into the justice system, only then will "prosecution", i.e. the proceeding to prove the charges brought against someone are legally binding, begin.
As it stands now, Bragg has only introduced his hypotheses/theories to destroy Trump. No facts have been introduced in trial, so, at this point, the "prosecution rests".
Jeez, Trump destroyed himself by more than 7 million votes last election.
The rest of this ongoing nightmarish theatre just proves he doesn't have the emotional makeup to be granted a second chance.
And? Got a point to make based on my comment?
I think I managed to use my English pretty well, thank you.
Just a note to the WSJ editors: the last thing to emerge from Pandora's box is Hope, the Gods are a mean bunch of jokers.
The "PADORA'S BOX" was opened by Donald Trump himself!
Michael Cohen went to prison for a crime in which he co-conspired with "INDIVIDUAL ONE" - Trump!
AND IT WAS TRUMP’s justice department that sent Cohen to jail!
In other words, it was TRUMP’S justice department that established there was the very crime for which Trump is about to be indicted!
Sweet irony.
What is truly sad is that anyone was fooled by his lies and voted for him anyway. He is a proven liar hundreds of times over and even when many supporters interviewed at his taxpayer funded rallies while in office, those supporters said they knew and did not care that he lies. So how do Republicans and far right voters who once pushed for the "Ten Commandments" to be etched in stone placed at some statehouses go from "thou shalt not lie" to "I don't care if he lies". They say they are religious and promote the "Ten Commandments" handed down from God and yet make every excuse on earth to avoid holding Trump to those same ten commandments.
They think Jesus is looking at the heathens and not them