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US workers' wage gains in 2023 are likely to exceed inflation | PIIE

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  jbb  •  last year  •  98 comments

By:   PIIE

US workers' wage gains in 2023 are likely to exceed inflation | PIIE
US workers lost ground this year as their wages did not keep up with inflation, but they should regain some of those losses in 2023. Forecasters project that inflation will decline next year. There is considerable disagreement over the size of the reduction, mainly reflecting uncertainty about how fast the hot economy and labor market will cool off. But whatever happens to the labor market, inflation is likely to fall far below wage growth in 2023.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Joseph E. Gagnon (PIIE) and Asher Rose (PIIE)

Date


US workers lost ggroundin 2022 as their wages did not keep up with inflation, but they should regain some of those losses in 2023. Forecasters project that inflation will decline next year. There is considerable disagreement over the size of the reduction, mainly reflecting uncertainty about how fast the hot economy and labor market will cool off. But whatever happens to the labor market, inflation is likely to fall far below wage growth in 2023.

The latest Survey of Professional Forecasters projects a rapid slowdown of inflation from 5.9 percent in 2022 (Q4/Q4) to 2.9 percent in 2023, followed by a modest decline in 2024 to 2.3 percent. The 2024 projection is reasonably close to the Federal Reserve's inflation target of 2 percent. (In this post, inflation is defined in terms of the personal consumption expenditures (PCE) price index, which is what the Fed targets.)

Jason Furman and Wilson Powell have questioned whether such a projection is too optimistic in light of continued rapid growth in labor costs owing to a hot labor market. This post lays out the case for a cooler labor market in 2023. Regardless of the pace of wage increases next year, prices are likely to rise less than wages.[1]

Labor cost growth may cool quickly


The rate of unemployment, at 3.7 percent, is only slightly below the Federal Reserve's estimate of the long-run equilibrium rate of 4 percent. However, it is likely that the COVID-19 pandemic significantly raised the equilibrium rate and that it is only slowly returning toward 4 percent. The historically high job vacancy rate is one of several indicators pointing to an overheated labor market.

Professional forecasters currently expect the unemployment rate to rise to 4.3 percent by Q3 of next year and 4.4 percent by Q4. Vacancies are likely to be much lower by then, consistent with a labor market that is close to equilibrium. If so, labor costs should slow dramatically. That's because previous research shows that growth of the employment cost index (ECI) moves rapidly toward about 3 percent once the unemployment rate reaches its equilibrium level.[2] Over the 20 years prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, the PCE inflation rate averaged about 0.8 percentage point lower than the ECI growth rate, so that an ECI growth rate at or just below 3 percent would be consistent with a PCE inflation rate of about 2 percent.

Inflation may drop sharply even if labor costs do not cool off quickly


If the equilibrium rate of unemployment is higher than next year's actual rate, the ECI growth rate will not decline to near 3 percent. Indeed, professional forecasters expect ECI to rise 4.3 percent in 2023 relative to 2022.[3] Figure 1 displays the growth rate of the ECI over the past 20 years along with a projection over the next two that is a bit higher than that of professional forecasters.[4] Twelve-month ECI growth peaked at 5.4 percent in June 2022 and declined to 5.1 percent as of September. In the projection, ECI rises at an annualized pace of 5 percent from September 2022 to March 2023, 4.5 percent from March to December 2023, and 4 percent in 2024. This projection is consistent with only a modest cooling in the labor market and an unemployment rate still somewhat lower than its equilibrium rate.[5] Further reductions in inflation beyond 2024 would require ECI growth to slow well below a 4 percent pace.

To see how inflation can move down with only a modest deceleration in wages, it is useful to separate PCE prices into three categories: durable goods such as autos and appliances, nondurable goods such as groceries and clothing, and services such as haircuts and hotel stays. For each category, we regressed the ratio of the PCE price to the ECI on energy prices as a ratio to ECI, food prices as a ratio to ECI, and a time trend.[8]

  • PCE services prices do not respond in any meaningful way to food and energy prices, nor do they have a notable trend; they closely follow ECI.
  • PCE nondurable goods prices respond positively to food and energy prices and they have a modest downward trend relative to ECI.
  • PCE durable goods prices respond positively to food prices, negatively to energy prices, and have a pronounced downward trend relative to ECI. Dropping energy prices from the regression has no impact on our results.

Figure 2 displays the ratios of each of these PCE components to ECI (the solid lines) and their predicted values from the regression models (the dashed lines). The figure shows that services prices hew closely to labor costs (ECI)—their ratio is essentially constant. For durables and nondurables prices, there is an important response to raw materials prices. The strong downward trend in durable goods prices relative to ECI reflects high productivity growth in the durable-goods sector; the flat ratio for services indicates essentially no productivity growth in this sector while the gentle decline for nondurables indicates only modest productivity growth.

The projections in figure 2 are based on the assumed path of ECI shown in figure 1 combined with flat paths for food and energy prices, consistent with flat or downward sloping paths in futures markets for corn, soybeans, petroleum, and natural gas.[7] For each PCE component, the projection is designed to gradually eliminate the gap between projected data and model fitted values by December 2024.

Durables prices rose well above the model predictions during the COVID-19 pandemic, as consumer demand for durable goods far exceeded the capacity to produce them.[8] The most important contributor to this pattern is the automobile sector. As has been widely noted, prices for new and used vehicles soared well above the costs of labor and raw materials during the pandemic owing to heavy demand and bottlenecks in the supply of semiconductors and other raw materials. Vehicle demand is likely to moderate with rising interest rates while semiconductor production is rebounding, which should enable automobile prices to return to a more normal margin over costs. Used vehicle prices have already fallen in recent months.

The projection for overall PCE inflation through 2024 in figure 1 is constructed as a weighted average of the PCE components shown in figure 2.[9] After peaking at 6.5 percent in March 2022, the 12-month PCE inflation rate is projected to decline to 5.3 percent by December 2022, 2.9 percent by December 2023, and 2.4 percent by December 2024. These results are similar to the projections of the Survey of Professional Forecasters.

In light of the unprecedented errors in forecasts of inflation over the past year, any projection of inflation in 2023 must be viewed as especially uncertain. It is possible that food and energy prices will decline or that wages will grow more slowly than projected here, pulling inflation down even faster. But risks in the other direction seem larger, as the Fed's rate hikes have so far barely touched the red-hot labor market, high inflation may start to feed into wage demands, and price-cost margins may not return to previous trends. Nevertheless, overall inflation is likely to drop more rapidly than the pace of wage increases in 2023, as commodity prices cool off and supply bottlenecks ease.

Notes


1. Furman and Powell focus on core PCE inflation, which excludes food and energy prices. Because these prices are expected to decline in coming months, overall inflation is likely to fall faster than core inflation.

2. The results displayed in column 4 of table 3 in the linked paper show that ECI grows at a long-run rate of 2.9 percent when unemployment remains at its equilibrium rate. The speed of adjustment to this rate is fast, with 69 percent of the adjustment to the long-run rate occurring immediately. The ECI grew at a pace below 3 percent during the 10 years prior to 2019, consistent with an unemployment rate above its equilibrium level.

3. Data are from Consensus Forecasts, November 2022. Annual average ECI growth in 2023 of 4.3 percent would be consistent with a pace of 4 percent or a bit less on a Q4/Q4 basis if ECI growth slows gradually over the coming months.

4. 12-month growth rate of ECI for all private industry workers. Monthly data (in levels) are interpolated from end-of-quarter observations.

5. A key risk to this projection is the possibility that continued high inflation would push up wage demands directly. So far there is little evidence of cost-push wage inflation, and the rapid decline in projected inflation should help to prevent such inflation in the future.

6. The regression starts with the first available observation of ECI in March 2001 and ends just before the COVID-19 pandemic in February 2020. Energy price is the PCE energy category. Food price is the producer price index for finished consumer foods. (The PCE food category includes a large amount of labor costs in the restaurant and grocery store sectors.) We tried including the producer price index for unprocessed materials excluding food and fuel, but its coefficient was small and usually had the wrong sign; its inclusion made little difference to our results.

7. Futures prices are from the Chicago Mercantile Exchange Daily Information Bulletin as of December 1.

8. A shift in demand between sectors is inflationary—even if total demand is unchanged—when sectoral supply curves are nonlinear with a steeper slope as output increases. Evidence suggests that aggregate supply (Phillips) curves are nonlinear in precisely this way, consistent with the view that bottlenecks are especially inflationary.

9. Weights are assumed to remain constant at their last observed values through the projection period. The weights are services 65.4 percent, nondurables 22.2 percent, and durables 12.4 percent.


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JBB
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JBB    last year

Wages are going up as inflation is being tamed!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @1    last year
Wages are going up as inflation is being tamed!

yeah, old Joe has done such a bang-up job that he now has FINALLY gotten inflation down to just over TWICE what it was when he took office.

Way to go Joe!

/s

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Masters Guide
1.1.1  Right Down the Center  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1    last year

256

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    last year

[deleted

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2  Bob Nelson    last year

Should we start worrying about corporate balance sheets ?

/s

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  JBB  replied to  Bob Nelson @2    last year

Wages are growing, unemployment is at record lows, inflation is abating, business are raking in record profits, but to hear the NT far rightwing nabobs of negativity tell it, thing are terrible...

Where? In Moscow and St Petersburg Russia?

Biden is fucking with Russians like a machine.

A one man wrecking ball fucking up Russians...

Butt, here in the US of A things are looking up!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @2.1    last year

Inflation is STILL at more than 2 times what it was when Biden took office.

Seems weird to take credit for a decline when he didn't  take any blame for the astronomical rise under him.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.2  seeder  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.1    last year

[Deleted

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JBB @2.1    last year

Seems 34% of America begs to differ with you. As would anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together.

And if wages are going to grow, we have to dig out of the deep assed hole we got put in over the last year at least.. You do realize I hope that inflation numbers are a year over year comparison. So that means that last June at 7+% will be the barometer for this June's numbers. Not pretty. That means we LOST 7+% in buying power last year so if the inflation rate is at 4% say, we are STILL 11% (less actual wage growth) higher than May of last year.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @2.1.2    last year

Gee, I am sorry if truthful posts involving facts upset you so!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.4    last year

When?  Where?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.6    last year
When?  Where?

In the post you probably didn;t bother to read.

You can always look it up on Google!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.7    last year

I asked WHEN and WHERE you provided 'truthful posts involving facts'?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.8    last year

I told you already.

Aren't you bothering to read what you demand?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.10  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.4    last year

All that JD provided was a link to an AP news article which did indeed show that 34% approve of Biden's handling of the economy so that is indeed true.  Other than that, so [what?Deleted

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.10    last year

I posted facts.

It doesn't matter to me if you understood them or not.

I hope you realize that if 34% approve of Biden's handling of the economy, it means that 66% did NOT approve?

LOL!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.12  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.11    last year

Again, WHEN AND WHERE?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.13  Trout Giggles  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.11    last year

You're not the one that presented the 34% fact, that was Jim. All you offered was a 2 line comment that basically your same old song and dance

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.10    last year
All that JD provided was a link

Who the fuck is JD?

What post have you imagined him posting here?

Can you provide a comment number for what you claim?

I keep looking for any JD who has posted on this article.

Weren't you just chastising me for not providing facts? And now you just make stuff up?

Whoo boy!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.15  Trout Giggles  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.14    last year

Oh good grief. You never made a typo in your life did you?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.16  Texan1211  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.15    last year

I sure have.

And?????????????????

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.18  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.12    last year
Again, WHEN AND WHERE?

Oh, FFS.

Post 2.1.1.

Keep up!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.19  Trout Giggles  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.16    last year

I'm not getting into a pissing contest with you. If you've made typos then don't be so goddamn quick to ride somebody else's ass about it.

Please have the last word because I'm done with this conversation

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.20  Texan1211  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.13    last year
You're not the one that presented the 34% fact, that was Jim

Exactly! Good to see you following along. Did you note I never claimed to have provided what Jim did???

All you offered was a 2 line comment that basically your same old song and dance

Here is my post:

Inflation is STILL at more than 2 times what it was when Biden took office.

Now, if you choose to dispute what I ACTUALLY wrote, let's go! I can back that claim up!

Hell, your post 3 leads me to think you probably believe what I wrote already.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.21  Texan1211  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.3    last year

Say, Jim, do you think some people haven't quite grasped the significance of the numbers attached to posts?

Some folks seem awfully confused by what you posted and what I posted.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.23  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.14    last year

Couldn't you figure that out from my reference to the AP news article that he provided, despite the typo?  From comment 2.1.13?

Does everything need to be spelled out for you?  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.24  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.23    last year
Couldn't you figure that out from my reference to the AP news article that he provided, despite the typo?  From comment 2.

Nope, because you never bothered to follow the conversation enough to even know what I posted and what he posted.

It's okay, I understand.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2.1.25  Bob Nelson  replied to  JBB @2.1    last year

Biden could cure cancer, and the Usual Suspects would criticize. They operate on the principle that if they lie loud enough and often enough, surely someone will be convinced...

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.26  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.23    last year
despite the typo?

THAT is bullshit and you know it. You did the same yesterday........................and looking at my keyboard, the D and J (which would be referencing JJ) aren't even close or typed with the same finger.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.27  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.25    last year

Obama tapped him to do just that. How is that working out 8 years later?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.28  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.26    last year

Whatever

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.29  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.24    last year

No, you don't.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.30  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.29    last year

I understood perfectly!

You must have missed my post 2.1.1.

You know, the one you keep asking about.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.31  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.30    last year

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.32  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.31    last year

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3  Trout Giggles    last year

JBB, I love ya...but I just can't agree with this seed. I'm not getting any kind of a raise this year and I don't see inflation abating all that much. Gas is still hovering at $3 to $3.20 a gallon. Food prices are still very, very high. Utilities aren't going down, either.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1  Ender  replied to  Trout Giggles @3    last year

I don't think prices are going to go down at this point. It always makes me shake my head when they don't include food or energy in their stats when that is what people have to deal with the most.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ender @3.1    last year

Mr G went grocery shopping a couple of weeks ago. We don't do a lot of shopping often, maybe once a month, but he tried to keep it under 600. Almost, but then he had to tip the bagger. We eat a lot of meat and that's what makes it really expensive

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.2  seeder  JBB  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.1    last year

The average monthly grocery bill for a family of four is nothing near $600.00.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.3  seeder  JBB  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.1    last year

Did the $600 include liquor, beer and wine?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  JBB @3.1.3    last year

Nope! Meat! Canned goods! Frozen goods! Potatoes! Onions!

We don't drink wine or liquor. And we don't shop for a family of four since it's only two of us now. We shop so we're not constantly running to the grocery store to find something for dinner.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.5  seeder  JBB  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.4    last year

About $100 a week is what most spend...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  JBB @3.1.5    last year

What are they eating? Hamburgers and hot dogs? We like to cook so we get good cuts of meat to cook

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.7  Ender  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.1    last year

I spent around 400 the last couple of times. Two months in a row it was that much. 

One thing I want to invest in is one of those air vacuum sealer bag things. Keep things frozen better.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ender @3.1.7    last year

See? And you're buying for one.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.9  seeder  JBB  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.6    last year

Nope, we eat like kings. Find an ALDI...

The only freezer here is the one in the side by side so I buy meat once weekly. I buy mostly boneless white meat, 85/15 burger, cube steaks and pork chops though because good steaks are really expensive. I don't skimp on groceries...

I do not purchase much processed stuff.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.10  seeder  JBB  replied to  Ender @3.1.7    last year

$400 a month is normal. $600 per week should feed all the Duggers in Arkansas! 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.11  Ender  replied to  JBB @3.1.9    last year

I actually don't mind the cube steaks if they are cooked right. On my last outing at the river, on the sandbar there was people grilling out. I noticed what they were cooking looked like this long thin flank steak. I guess it was cheaper.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.12  Ender  replied to  JBB @3.1.10    last year

I could have spent more.  Haha

I wouldn't mind having a whole turkey in the freezer.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.13  seeder  JBB  replied to  Ender @3.1.11    last year

My Chicken-Fried Steak is "To Die For"...

The trick is hot grease for "Not too long".

And, gravy...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.14  Trout Giggles  replied to  JBB @3.1.9    last year

I like my Kroger. I don't live in the big city.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
3.1.16  Bob Nelson  replied to  Ender @3.1    last year
don't include food or energy

Those prices are too volatile for making policy. Excluding them makes inflation more understandable. There's a lot of discussion right now, among economists, about the best way to measure inflation.

Making good policy depends on knowing what's going on. That means good instruments for measuring. Output must not be too noisy. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.2  seeder  JBB  replied to  Trout Giggles @3    last year

Sorry, but I did not write the article and personal anecdotes do not trump the national statistical data which shows that wages are growing and businesses are profiting and unemployment is practically nonexistent and inflation abating...

My retirement income is up about 10% YTD.

Covid supply chain issues and Putin's war in Ukraine caused worldwide price increases due to the laws of supply and demand but overall we are doing better than about any other countries, our economy is growing and we recovering quicker than other countries...

I read that many red states are falling behind.

Maybe the fault is Sarah Huckabee Sanders'...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  JBB @3.2    last year
Maybe the fault is Sarah Huckabee Sanders'...

There's no maybe about it, Hun. I won't go into it here, but she fucked everybody over

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.3  evilone  replied to  Trout Giggles @3    last year

What this says is that inflation is projected to go down NEXT year. Doesn't help us a lot this year and experts are only expecting COLA next year to increase 2% or less. The Consumer Price Index for Urban Wage Earners and Clerical Workers (CPI-W) has been in decline so SS and VA recipients might actually get no increase at all next year. 

Also I just came across the White House press release on this and it's absolute partisan garbage fodder taking credit for all the economic good news. Biden, as all presidents, gets little to no credit for the short term ups & downs of our economy. The thing driving all the good news lately is consumer spending. As a nation we have been collectively spending like drunken sailors on shore leave... even through the inflation. Obviously the interest rate hikes are taking their toll and working to slow that spending, but people didn't just cut up their credit cards and kill their Amazon accounts. We are all still going out to eat, seeing movies and buying cars. Housing prices are still up because there are still so few houses in many markets too. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.1  Texan1211  replied to  evilone @3.3    last year

Inflation is outpacing wage growth, and that is a horrible sign for the economy.

Housing sales are starting to slow because of the high interest rates.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.3.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  evilone @3.3    last year

Thanks for explaining all that to me

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.3.3  evilone  replied to  Texan1211 @3.3.1    last year
Inflation is outpacing wage growth, and that is a horrible sign for the economy.

It's why some economists predicted a recession, but that hasn't and doesn't look likely to happen, because unemployment is still at historic lows and spending continues to be robust. It's really the spending propping up the economy at this point and that doesn't look to slow down too much either. For a while it was driving inflation, but now inflation is slowing as the interest rate increases are finally working on credit for housing and cars.

Housing sales are starting to slow because of the high interest rates.

Yes, sales are starting to slow, but not a lot because there are just no new listings in most markets. I don't see a housing market crash anytime soon either. I was talking to the Kia sales guy not long ago who sold me my car. He says inventory isn't as bad as it was last year, but still not as good as pre-pandemic levels and they don't keep new cars on the lot very long. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.4  Texan1211  replied to  evilone @3.3.3    last year

As the interest rates remain high, houses for sale will be fewer and fewer. Sure you could sell your house no0w and make a shitload of money, but then you'd have to buy a more expensive place and pay much higher interest rates.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.3.5  evilone  replied to  Texan1211 @3.3.4    last year
As the interest rates remain high, houses for sale will be fewer and fewer.

The whole idea of raising the interest rates so high is to get people to buy fewer and fewer homes slowing inflation. That's working.

Sure you could sell your house no0w and make a shitload of money, but then you'd have to buy a more expensive place and pay much higher interest rates.

I can't say for every market but around here it looks like most people selling are retirees that are moving to warmer climates.

I've also talked to multiple people now who can't find 3 and 4 bedroom homes and would jump at any listing. This is going on at the same time a developer just informed a bunch of renters they will have to move because they are converting those units to luxury short term rentals. The city was pissed and looked into pulling back grants they got, but couldn't do it, then changed rules for future grants.

In general rent prices here are insane... It may even still be cheaper to buy than rent? That is if one can find a home.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.3.6  Jack_TX  replied to  evilone @3.3    last year

I suspect all of those spending trends will continue until we start to see some actual unemployment.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.3.7  Jack_TX  replied to  evilone @3.3.5    last year
The whole idea of raising the interest rates so high is to get people to buy fewer and fewer homes slowing inflation. That's working.

Not just homes.

High interest rates are designed to slow borrowing of all sorts, thus slowing the creation of new money and economic growth.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.3.8  seeder  JBB  replied to  Jack_TX @3.3.7    last year

Because Trump and the gop had pulled out all the economic stops (cutting taxes, increasing spending on the military and covid stimulus, keeping interest rates artificially low) during relatively good economic times there was nothing left to do except suffer the repercussions of more difficult economic conditions...

So far things are better than expected!

original

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.3.9  evilone  replied to  Jack_TX @3.3.6    last year
I suspect all of those spending trends will continue until we start to see some actual unemployment.

Of course. Wasn't that supposed to happen last fall? Unemployment looks stable at the moment. There have been employment corrections in some markets, but not enough to make a meaningful impact.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.3.10  evilone  replied to  Jack_TX @3.3.7    last year
High interest rates are designed to slow borrowing of all sorts, thus slowing the creation of new money and economic growth.

Yes. We are all aware. It's just now starting to work as the FEDs didn't raise rates again the last time they met. Inflation has been slowing - the point of the article.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.3.11  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @3.3.8    last year

I realize this will shock you, but math and economics are slightly more intricate than "Trump bad".

You might actually seek to understand them just a little before you post. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.3.12  Jack_TX  replied to  evilone @3.3.10    last year
Yes. We are all aware.

You and I may be aware.

You dont need to read very many posts to see that not all of us here on NT share that awareness. TBF, unless it is something a person was taught, they would have no way of knowing.

Political die hards almost always lack some form of basic understanding about how the world actually works.  A little education may help them develop more realistic views.

It's just now starting to work as the FEDs didn't raise rates again the last time they met. Inflation has been slowing - the point of the article.

Yeah, I think so.  And as we agree, it's about way more than just housing.

That said, housing is still one of several significant systemic issues that are going to continue to keep inflation well above Fed targets.  Wage inflation is another.

A lot of this is very 1978, and is driven by a lot of the same demographic patterns.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.3.13  evilone  replied to  Jack_TX @3.3.12    last year
A lot of this is very 1978, and is driven by a lot of the same demographic patterns.

I was 12 in 1978. There were some stellar movies that came out that year! Dawn fo the Dead, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, John Carpenter's Halloween, Grease, Superman...

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.3.14  Jack_TX  replied to  evilone @3.3.13    last year
I was 12 in 1978

As was I. 

I remember a bidding war on my parent's house because they had an assumable mortgage.

It was 9.5%.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.3.15  seeder  JBB  replied to  Jack_TX @3.3.14    last year

That was at the time my grandparents were getting 12% interest on savings accounts...

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.3.16  seeder  JBB  replied to  Jack_TX @3.3.11    last year

If you knew anything about economics you would know that what i said is all true!

My degree was in economics and business.

Did you study economics at coach college?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.17  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @3.3.16    last year

IF the 'prediction' that wages will outgrow inflation this year comes true, GREAT!

Then workers might get back to where they were before the pandemic and raging inflation.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.18  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @3.3.16    last year
Did you study economics at coach college?

Coach college?

Where is it?

Imagining things?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.3.19  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @3.3.16    last year
If you knew anything about economics you would know that what i said is all true!

It's absolutely not.  Trump had zero ability to keep interest rates anywhere.  No president does.

Did he spend money like a drunken sailor on shore leave?  Yes.  Has Biden spent money like a senile grandpa trying to spoil 150 million grandkids?  Also yes.

You're constant political bias is idiotic, ridiculous, and indefensible with even a passing investigation of the math or science involved.

My degree was in economics and business.

I was about to call bullshit.  But then I remembered that AOC was also supposedly an Econ major, and she doesn't know how the unemployment rate is calculated.  So I guess anything is possible.  So at your college, did they teach you that the president controls interest rates?  If so, you should ask for your money back.  

Well-educated people rarely succumb to brainless political bias.

Did you study economics at coach college?

I studied mathematics and minored in education and pedagogy, which means I took real Calculus and real Statistics instead of that bullshit they teach the business majors.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.3.20  seeder  JBB  replied to  Jack_TX @3.3.19    last year

Wrongo Jack! The ways a government can stimulate economic growth are by cutting interest rates, cutting taxes and increasing to spending. Because rates were cut basically zero, taxes were cut to the bone and spending was unchecked during good economic times under Trump's government and the gop congress there were none of those normal tools available to stimulate our economy when Covid-19 and Putin's War in Ukraine sent the world's economy into decline. If you had studied economics you would know that all of this is correct...

You cannot belittle my understanding of economics while simultaneously sneering at the actual science of economics. As you did!

SMH!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.22  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @3.3.20    last year

taxes were not cut anywhere even close to the bone.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.23  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @3.3.20    last year

why was a record amount of corporate taxes collected under Trump?

why are we on track to collect the highest amount of tax dollars ever?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.3.24  seeder  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @3.3.23    last year

Trump's over three trillion dollar budget deficit in 2020 says you are wrongo, too!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.25  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @3.3.24    last year

I thought you claimed to have a degree in economics??

you can run deficits and still collect record revenues!

I find it hard to believe they wouldn't at least teach that basic info at a real accredited college.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.26  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @3.3.24    last year

instead of "wrongo" how about looking up taxes collected under Trump and then get back when you are armed with some facts.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.3.27  seeder  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @3.3.25    last year

No, because Trump was already running three trillion dollar deficits each of his last two budget years (2020 and 2021) additional tax cuts to stimulate our economy are not doable and would be incredibly irresponsible. As irresponsible as it was for the gop Congresses to cut taxes in 2017 and 2018 when unneeded!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.28  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @3.3.27    last year

so I can tell you did NOT look up tax revenues under Trump.

You really should.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.29  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @3.3.24    last year
Trump's over three trillion dollar budget deficit in 2020 says you are wrongo, too!

I found some interesting stats on the internet.

I hope you'll take a look at them:

U.S. Tax Revenue by Year

Here's a record of income for each fiscal year since 1962. Tax receipts fell off during the recession but started setting new records by FY 2013.3

FISCAL YEAR REVENUE
FY 2021 $4.05 trillion
FY 2020 $3.42 trillion
FY 2019 $3.46 trillion
FY 2018 $3.33 trillion
FY 2017 $3.32 trillion
FY 2016 $3.27 trillion
FY 2015 $3.25 trillion
FY 2014 $3.02 trillion
FY 2013 $2.78 trillion
FY 2012 $2.45 trillion
FY 2011 $2.30 trillion
FY 2010 $2.16 trillion
FY 2009 $2.11 trillion
FY 2008 $2.52 trillion
FY 2007 $2.57 trillion
FY 2006 $2.41 trillion
FY 2005 $2.15 trillion
FY 2004 $1.88 trillion
FY 2003 $1.78 trillion
FY 2002 $1.85 trillion
FY 2001 $1.99 trillion
FY 2000 $2.03 trillion
FY 1999 $1.83 trillion
FY 1998 $1.72 trillion
FY 1997 $1.58 trillion
FY 1996 $1.45 trillion
FY 1995 $1.35 trillion
FY 1994 $1.26 trillion
FY 1993 $1.15 trillion
FY 1992 $1.09 trillion
FY 1991 $1.06 trillion
FY 1990 $1.03 trillion

U.S. Federal Tax Revenue by Year (thebalancemoney.com)

I am sorry the numbers don't support your claims.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.3.30  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @3.3.20    last year

Do at least attempt to read carefully.

I specifically referenced interest rates.

 Explain how the POTUS has the ability to "keep interest rates artificially low."

We can skip to the end of that story.... they don't.  The Fed is independent by design. 

You cannot belittle my understanding of economics while simultaneously sneering at the actual science of economics. As you did!

Well educated people are not blindly partisan.

If you actually understood 1/10th of what you claim you wouldn't continually embarrass yourself by pretending the party who have spent more time in control of spending somehow bear no responsibility for its effects.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.3.31  seeder  JBB  replied to  Jack_TX @3.3.30    last year

You quibble on one point while ignoring everything else. You must have slept through the entire Trump administration!

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.3.32  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @3.3.31    last year
You quibble on one point while ignoring everything else.

The irony of you with your hyper-partisan foolishness accusing any human anywhere of ignoring anything is utterly fucking hilarious.

But thank you for acknowledging your error.

You must have slept through the entire Trump administration

From the person who can't seem to remember any of the $5+ trillion new Biden spending.

You really do have quite a knack for accusing others of sins while you commit them yourself more egregiously.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.3.33  seeder  JBB  replied to  Jack_TX @3.3.32    last year

You make no points with personal attacks!

Once again...

As we were already spending like drunk sailors on shore leave and had already cut taxes to where we were already running three billion dollar deficits and since interest rates were already effectively zero under Trump and before Covid during a booming economy none of the normal tools that normal governments normally use to stimulate economic growth were available to us when the world economy crapped out. That was my original piont which is 100% accurate. So, who is really the one being blindly partisan here?

It is bad enough you impersonate The World's Greatest LGBTQ Expert but now the high school coach who who never studied economics butt knows more about economics than any economists.

Who ridicules the science of economics.

That Guy!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.3.34  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jack_TX @3.3.32    last year

Nicely done!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.35  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @3.3.33    last year

you claimed we cut taxes to the bone 

I showed you that was a lie.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.3.36  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @3.3.33    last year
You make no points with personal attacks!

A great point for you to remember.

normal tools that normal governments normally use to stimulate economic growth were available to us when the world economy crapped out.

You pretend Covid was a "normal" situation with a normal economic downturn instead of a once in a century black swan event that shut down economies all over the world.  

You also pretend the US didn't fare much better than most other developed nations.

You also pretend Trump had anything at all to do with policy.  We're talking about the same asshole who thought he could "renegotiate the national debt"... like it was a real estate loan.

You proceed to pretend that Biden's $5 trillion+ in new spending plus another several hundred billion in loan deferrals didn't throw gasoline on the fire, and that he hasn't intentionally extended the Covid national emergency period so he could keep giving out money.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
3.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @3    last year

Economics is very difficult. Difficult to manage and difficult to measure. And the President has relatively little power over the economy - much less than the chairman of the Fed.

Statistically, the US is doing relatively well, compared with other advanced economies. That's not much consolation for people who are hurting... but it's true.

As usual, most of the nation’s economic product is being captured by the already-rich, but that's really not something that Biden can correct. (I wish, but sadly, no.)

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
3.4.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Bob Nelson @3.4    last year
And the President has relatively little power over the economy 

Imagine how much more sane our country would behave if everyone knew this.

That said, the Fed Chair his pretty significant power over the economy.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.4.2  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @3.4.1    last year
Imagine how much more sane our country would behave if everyone knew this [the President has relatively little power over the economy].

For emphasis.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
4  Jeremy Retired in NC    last year

You know what would make this an actual accomplishment?  If inflation hadn't gotten to 9% in the first place.  But it went there eliminating any chance of this being an accomplishment.  Even remotely 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1  Texan1211  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @4    last year

It is hard for clearly-thinking folks to give credit for a 'reduction' when the reduction is still above where it was when Biden came into office.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
4.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1    last year

Well these are the same people who still push a lot of other false narratives despite proof to the contrary.

 
 

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