Hmmm. Under oath, this guy says we have alien remains from UFO crash sites.

I made a poll for it. What do you think? Credible or not?

The hearing will air on CSPAN2 tonight at 7pm Central, and again at 1am.

My opinion is "We are not alone."  Maybe the fact that I just watched K-Pax yesterday might have affected my opinion.  Irrelevant movie news is that Kevin Spacey was just found not guilty of all the sexual misconduct offences he had been charged with. 

Prot travelled on a beam of light. 

I loved that movie enough to buy a copy.

I enjoyed it as well.

I was just wondering if one of the reasons the choice to play Prot was influenced by the name Kevin SPACEy.

Credible or not?

It’s the worst kind of hearsay. He’s testifying that someone else told him this. He himself has no firsthand knowledge, and he doesn’t identify the speaker. His testimony is worthless.

The fact that it is hearsay does not automatically label it as false.  It just means it cannot be proven to be true. 

The fact that it is hearsay does not automatically label it as false.

I didn’t say it was false. It’s unreliable. It cannot fairly be used to assess the truth of the claim. It’s junk testimony.

Sorry, I will restate my comment.  The fact that it is hearsay may well mean that it is unreliable, meaning that it could be either true or false, but it is worthless only if it is proven to be false, and that has not yet happened.

but it is worthless only if it is proven to be false

It can't be proven true or false as it sits now. He would have to name the person he got the information from, the DoD would have to unclassified the information and the person with first hand knowledge would have to testify under oath. Since none of that will happen its a Schrodinger's Cat logic situation. It is just as likely to be false as true and vice versa.

He’s testifying that someone else told him this.

Does that even qualify him as a whistleblower?

While I am certain that we are NOT alone, the sheer size of the universe makes it questionable if we will ever meet anyone else.

it is worthless only if it is proven to be false

No, that’s not the standard. That can’t ever be the standard. It’s not the standard in court, and it’s not even the standard here on NT. You can’t just say whatever and then it’s given some kind of weight until someone else proves it to be false. 

The standard is you testify to a thing about which you have firsthand knowledge. The best this guy can do is testify that someone told him a thing. Even if we assume that he is not lying, that does mean what he was told is true. Even worse, he is not even telling us who told him this information. So we can’t assess the speaker, the motivation for the speech, or anything else related to its reliability.

I could walk in there and claim someone told me they found a Vulcan in their back yard and it would be the same. By your standard, everyone would have to accept my statement as a real possibility we should care about until someone else comes along and proves it false. We can’t operate that way. Logic doesn’t operate that way.

Our government is spending time listening to and giving weight to such useless testimony. Incredibly, no one is pressing this guy for details. “Who is your source? Name him. Let’s get him in here to testify. Let’s see some actual evidence.” The only thing more embarrassing than having this guy waste everyone’s time is that responsible representatives are just nodding and accepting his ghost story.

I agree that if it cannot be proven to be true or false it is useless as evidence.  But that has not happened.

What is the standard?  Can you quote a valid source that sets the standard?  You are saying that hearsay is worthless, but maybe it isn't.  Seymour Hersh has been vilified becauss he used hearsay to say that Russia did not sabotage its own pipeline, and he accused the west of having done so.  But let's look at logic.  Why would Russia bomb what cost it a fortune to build if it wanted to stop the flow when all it had to do was turn it off at source.  I think Hersh, who for a long time was highly respected was vilified because logic backs up his opinion.  Now David Grusch is being vilified because he used hearsay when it's damn likely that SOMETHING is being hidden from the public. 

I have explained to you why hearsay is considered unreliable. If you don’t understand it, maybe do some research and study up on it.

Additionally, you want someone to disprove an unsupported statement. Do you truly not see how unreasonable that is?

I AGREED hearsay may well be unreliable.  Quote from my comment 1.2.3. above:  "The fact that it is hearsay may well mean that it is unreliable..." so it's not necessary for you to punch me in the face with it.  I also gave you an example where I personally believe for logical reasons that hearsay was most likely reliable notwithstanding it was contrary to what the west wanted to be true in order to cover their guilt..

if we will ever

Who says we haven't already? I want to believe.

Who says we haven't already?

Not me.

I want to believe.

As do I, but I expect at least a little evidence to back it up.

I think it's easy to accept that we are not alone in the universe.  It even seems more likely than not.  What I have a problem accepting is that they're here.

they're advanced enough to stay more difficult to detect when it suits them, creating more doubt about their existence.

IMO humans are too immature and violent for the "others" to make themselves known.  We don't have a Dr. Ellie Arroway like there was in the movie Contact.

As Pogo would say, we have met the aliens and they is us!

Good one.

To say we are alone in the universe is the ultimate vanity on our part.

From the movie Devil's Advocate...

My own "close encounter" happened long before cell phones and the high-res cameras they now contain. No proof except a fellow witness.

Talking about it made us look like fools, liars or just plain crazy.

The girl I was with (naked in the car) agreed that we shouldn't tell anybody else about it. 

The sight of that big glowing sphere that took off straight up in the blink of an eye out in that cornfield, however, will stay with us for the rest of our lives. 

you could have 500 million views on alien pornhub by now ...

Only 500 million?! She was hot and very flexible for an Earth girl!

was the car a convertible?

big glowing sphere that took off straight up in the blink of an eye out in that cornfield

Anything like this?

the one I saw in the 60's went from horizon to horizon in less than 30 seconds. no engine noise, no sonic boom...

Exactly like that. Just that fast. Completely quiet.

The phenomenon I personally witnessed near Fort Sam Houston in the mid 1970s was immensely impossibly incredibly huge. It sat completely silently right above us and then disappeared in a literal flash. Whatever it was was so detailed and authentic looking that if it was not real then it was specifically designed for shock and awe. For effect. We stopped the car and got out and stood underneath it for a good thirty seconds. Then, like turning off a light, she gone!

Out past the cornfields where the woods got heavy

Out past the cornfields where the woods got heavy

VW bug hardtop (told ya she was flexible).

I keep playing this video over and over and over. It explains much.

We at first thought that it was a car that had pulled into the field behind us. She was freaked out and said "Oh shit it's my dad" (it was his cornfield). My second thought was "that's not headlights". It was brighter than a parachute flare. Grabbed my pistol and was rolling out the door when it took off. Nothing could possibly move that fast.

Hadn't thought about that night in many many years. Not sure whether to thank you or not for this seed. A bunch of weird attached memories.

as a member of that VW club, that's impressive, and hippy era correct...

It was a red 57 with a canvas push back moon roof..

Years later even had a blue and white VW microbuss.

had a friend with a white '65 bug. he'd get too high to drive and I'd have to. it was hard pressed to do 60mph, but 50mph seemed like a hundred when driving that little car.

I could have saved a ton of cash had I owned one instead of the hotrod bullshit I drove. it probably wouldn't have altered my teenage sex life that much...

I remember that. That was weird

Owned and built many hotrods over the years.

Got so that I could rebuild a small block Chevy engine in my sleep.

In my opinion, the best argument FOR this is that we dont know what we dont know. 

Based on what we do know about the physical laws that would apply to intergalactic travel and the distances between us and the nearest possible life supporting planets, this is bunk. 

If it was claimed there was one alien trip to earth, it wouldnt be believable but at least it would sound a lot less ridiculous. But in the "flying saucer" era, which by some coincidence corresponds to the nuclear era, there have been thousands of reports of ufo's around the world. 

One thing I would concede is more of a possibility is that these sightings represent a visitation not from another planet, but from another dimension. in other words a somewhat supernatural event. I dont really believe that either though. And I dont believe the Air Force has alien bodies in some airplane hangar in the desert. No way that could have been kept secret. 

No way that could have been kept secret. 

The Air Force's Project Blue Book had many leaks over the years.

Weather balloons and swamp gas couldn't explain all of the sightings.

Even fighter pilots and astronauts have reported UFO sightings (foo fighters). 

Always figured Einstein was a bit foolish saying nothing could travel faster than light.

Seems spacetime itself can expand and contract.

my granny was one of the highest ranking civilian employees of USAF finance and accounting when she retired. she had an upper tier security clearance and paid the bills for the USAF. those bills included details justifying their expenses. when the first leaks of project blue book came out in the 60's, I was pressing her hard for information while we were alone fishing. she explained her top secret clearance to me to shut me down, but added with a wink "there's no such thing as flying saucers". decades later after her retirement, she was with me and a few other grandchildren of hers and the subject came up again. she still held onto her oath of secrecy, but threw us a bone by saying to us, "if I told you anything about it, you wouldn't believe me, and would think I was crazy". knowing her the way I did, that has stuck with me since she passed.

I'm pretty sure politicians have better things to do (or maybe they don't) than waste time and money giving this nutbar a pedastal to rant from

they do, but this congress won't be able to check anything off their rwnj wish list that will pass thru the senate.

I think if ETs are visiting us, then they must be aware of some physics that we haven't discovered yet. That would certainly explain the seemingly impossible flight capabilities of the "tic tac" UFOs allegedly observed by Navy pilots, and other reported sightings throughout the years.

They could have thousands or even millions more years of research under their belts than we do. We've only been doing serious physics for what, a few centuries? Most of the advanced stuff only came along in the last one.

My greatest wish is that Klaatu would return with Gort, who would with its disintegrator ray demolish all guns and weapons of war on Earth.  So if it's necessary to shoot wildlife, take a lesson from Robin Hood.   I'm not sorry that that would put the military industrial complex out of business. 

I was just thinking that someone might reply to me that I watch too many movies - LOL - right they would be. 

And I have read and written way too much sci-fi.

Those are the things that make us prone to be believers.  The sceptics ain't got no culture.  Nobody who was a sceptic could possibly have invented something new and beneficial for humanity. 

They could have thousands or even millions more years of research under their belts than we do.

And that's why I believe his story

we could simply be research material on some galactic petrie dish...

Wrote a sci-fi book once with that premise. Down On the Farm.

Had to do with their own petrie dish being contaminated.

I personally am a believer in the Drake Equation. At the same time Earth is all the way towards the far end of the spiral arm of our galaxy. I've always thought of that as us being on the other side of the railroad tracks so to speak. So why would ET's have any great interest in us, except as primitive specimens to study?

if they're carnivores, we need to promote evangelical churches as boutique meat markets...

I agree, given the size of the known universe and the growing number of habitable planets, it's increasingly unlikely that we have been or are alone.  Given the vast distances between stars and the fixed speed of light we might never really be able to have a conversation with another civilization.  

Also, if no better than us at taking care of their planet they may now be extinct.

Go for it, what's your first step?

a change of signage. 

tilt all the crosses 45 degrees to look like twitter's new logo...

I think the idea of advanced capabilities which we have nothing to counter is a bit disconcerting to the military minds.

His body language says I'm lying my ass off.

What a waste of time. This guy has no firsthand knowledge and no evidence of what he is testifying to.

no firsthand knowledge and no evidence of what he is testifying to

maybe he showed up to the wrong hearing...

maybe he showed up to the wrong hearing...

They all did. With all the real stuff that’s actually happening in the world, and impacting people in their daily lives, our elected “representatives” are spending their time on this shit.

I've been skimming through a video of this hearing today.

I actually find this kind of disturbing. The main witness, Grusch, appears to be some sort of crackpot but he was taken quite seriously by all of the congresspeople I saw question him. Where the hell is their skepticism? 

These witnesses are alleging hundreds of sightings of "UAP's" all over the world. It is extremely unlikely that these sightings represent alien visitations. Yet US congresspeople are taking this seriously. 

We have the spectacle of US Representatives sincerely asking questions about "alien" dead bodies being covered up by US intelligence agencies. 

www.nationalreview.com   /2023/06/ufo-whistleblower-is-a-trap-for-the-gop/

UFO ‘Whistleblower’ Is a Trap for the GOP

By Andrew FollettAbout Andrew FollettJune 15, 2023 6:30 AMListen to article 9-12 minutes   6/15/2023

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Here are the 5 most memorable moments from Congress’ UFO hearing

Former military officials made a series of mystifying claims about unidentified aerial phenomena under oath at Wednesday's congressional hearing.

Three former military officials told Congress Wednesday that they believe the government knows much more about   UFOs   than it is telling the public.

A House Oversight subcommittee held a hearing on UFOs — officially known as unidentified aerial phenomena or UAPs — and heard mystifying testimony about unexplained object sightings and government possession of “nonhuman” biological matter.

Lawmakers on the committee, baffled by some of the testimony, repeatedly noted that UAP sightings are an issue of bipartisan concern and raise national security questions. Separately, some accused the federal government of endeavoring to conceal key UFO-related information from the public, though they did not provide evidence to support those allegations.

“The sheer number of reports, whistleblowers and stories of unidentified anomalous phenomena should raise real questions and warrant investigation and oversight. And that’s why we are here today,” Rep. Robert Garcia, the top Democrat on the subcommittee, said in his opening statement. "UAPs, whatever they may be, may pose a serious threat to our military or civilian aircraft. And that must be understood."

These UAP sightings, experts say, might be attributable to balloons, drones, optical illusions or even the blinking lights of a commercial airliner. The Pentagon has said they have seen no evidence linking UAPs to alien activity, though they have   not ruled out   that explanation.

Here are five of the witnesses' main claims from the hearing:

Government is ‘absolutely’ in possession of UAPs

David Grusch, a former U.S. intelligence official, told the panel that he is “absolutely” certain that the federal government is in possession of UAPs, citing interviews he said he conducted with 40 witnesses over a four-year period.

The former U.S. intelligence official said he led Defense Department efforts to analyze reported UAP sightings and was informed of a “multidecade” Pentagon program that endeavored to collect and reconstruct crashed UAPs.

Asked by Rep. Jared Moskowitz, D-Fla., how such a program is funded, Grusch claimed that the effort is "above congressional oversight" and bankrolled by a "misappropriation of funds."

"Does that mean that there is money in the budget that is set to go to a program but it doesn't and it goes to something else?," Moskowitz asked.

"Yes. I have specific knowledge of that," Grusch said, though he did not provide more details, claiming the information remains classified.

‘Nonhuman biologics’ were found at a crash site

Grusch, who underscored that he has not personally spotted a UAP, told the panel that he knows of "multiple colleagues" who were injured by UAPs. He also said he has interviewed individuals who have recovered "nonhuman biologics" from crashed UAPs.

Grusch said he prefers to use the term "nonhuman" rather than alien or extraterrestrial.

Asked by Rep. Eric Burlison, R-Mo., to substantiate the crashed UAPs claim, the former intelligence official said he could not divulge specific details, once again claiming the information was too sensitive to share with the public.

He did, however, describe the nature of what he saw: "I have to be very careful here ... [but] what I personally witnessed, myself and my wife, was very disturbing."

A Pentagon spokesperson   told NBC News   that Grusch's claims are false.

Officials must establish a 'safe and transparent reporting process'

Some lawmakers and witnesses pushed the federal government to establish clear channels to communicate UAP information with both the public and the military, and said the military should establish a comprehensive reporting process for unidentified objects sightings.

Ryan Graves , a former Navy pilot, told the panel that military pilots do not feel adequately briefed on UAPs, which he said leaves them unprepared to respond to UAP encounters. 

The former Navy pilot claimed that commercial airline pilots have spotted UAPs too.

"There has to be a safe and transparent reporting process for pilots both on the commercial side and the military side to be able to report UAPs," Garcia said.

Rep. Virginia Foxx, R-N.C., echoed the calls for more transparency. She noted that Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, the director of the Pentagon's All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, had previously told Congress that there was “no credible” evidence of extraterrestrial life.

Grusch objected to Kirkpatrick's claim, prompting Foxx to say that "contradiction is a perfect example of why we need to inject transparency into our government."

Stigma associated with sightings 'silences' possible witnesses

Some witnesses and lawmakers   at the hearing argued that the stigma associated with reporting UFO sightings — as well as the alleged harassment of those who work to investigate them — may be hindering efforts to determine their origins.

Graves told the panel that stigma "silences" pilots who fear "professional repercussions," which he said is "compounded by recent government claims questioning the credibility of eyewitness testimony."

The Federal Aviation Administration has  no mechanism  for pilots to report UAPs, and instead directs them to civilian groups that are often dismissed as the domain of cranks and conspiracy theorists.

Those institutional hurdles led Graves to form a   first-of-its-kind group   that pushes for policy changes, serves as a hub for pilot whistleblowers and advocates for more disclosure by the military and other government agencies.

Lawmakers said they hoped the hearing could help assuage pilots' fears of speaking out.

"This hearing will not be the end of this discussion, but a new chapter and start. We should encourage more reporting, and more study of UAPs," Garcia said. "The more we understand, the safer we are."

UFO spotted accelerating to 'supersonic speeds'

David Fravor, a former Navy commander, said he and three fellow military pilots spotted a white Tic-Tac-shaped object in 2004, hovering below their jets and just above the Pacific Ocean.

As he descended to inspect the sighting, he claimed the unidentified aircraft — which he said bore no visible rotors, wings or exhaust — began to ascend and approach his fighter jet.

He claimed that the UAP then vanished, only to reappear a few seconds later, but this time it was spotted 60 miles away.

Fravor told the committee that the technology he and his team encountered defies logical explanation.

"The technology that we faced is far superior to anything that we had," Fravor claimed. "And there’s nothing we can do about it, nothing."

Wow. I don't recall ever hearing that Bennewitz story before. Thanks for posting that.

When you think about it all five of these things are claims that we've been hearing all our lives and he's supporting them with exactly the same evidence.  None.

"nonhuman biologics"

ie: trumpsters

Most likely most of the alleged "sightings" have been natural weather phenomena, weather balloons, etc. but maybe, just maybe, some of them like those the pilots saw, are genuine.

I actually agree that the people saw curious things and things new or novelty in the skies around the world. These are serious people flying and turning their cameras on objects in the sky. That it leads us to the level of dead interplanetary species and "alien autopsies" and newfound life from other worlds. . . is a bit much. The mere thought itself that we are proven not to be the only intelligent life in this universe would be the narrative . . .not erratic flying platforms or crashed and siloed 'materials,' in my opinion.

This guy sounds more like a con man than a whistleblower. 

Our world is going nuts.

He seems sincere enough to me, and not like he's trying to pull off a con. Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of him yet. Maybe he's been the recipient of a con job himself, similar to Bennewitz.

I believer his individual testified he has a degree in physics, today. 

But seriously, throughout all I have heard to this today, it appears the media is stepping on its lead:

(If this is to be believed)  There is Intelligent Life in This Universe Besides Humans!

Something I won't discount, and, taking into consideration everything that is happening on our planet these days, IMO probably a lot more intelligent.

I dont find him persuasive at all, for a number of reasons, here is a good article about that

Claims Made By ‘UFO Whistleblower’ David Grusch Are Pure Science Fiction

David Grusch claims that we live in a Star Trek universe, filled with metal spaceships flown by reckless pilots.

UFO fever has been sweeping through the internet in the wake of explosive claims made by “UFO whistleblower” David Grusch, a former military intelligence official and Air Force veteran who says the U.S. government is in possession of alien spacecraft.

Grusch recently appeared   on NewsNation   to elaborate on his claims, interviewed by journalist Ross Coulthart.

The past few years have seen the fringe beliefs of UFO enthusiasts spread from   The Joe Rogan Experience   to the   New York Times   and   the Guardian , imbuing UFO mythology with a newfound sense of legitimacy.

During his NewsNation interview, Grusch offered no evidence for his extraordinary claims, but said that his information comes from “several sources.” Grusch confirmed that he had not personally seen any of the alleged alien spacecraft, but has seen “some interesting photos” and “read some very interesting reports.”

UFO skeptic Mick West released an   excellent response video   to Grusch’s interview that delves into the details of his claims. Notably, many of Grusch’s claims contain illogical assumptions, popularized by science fiction tropes.

While science fiction can offer a glimpse into an imagined future, the genre often reflects the cultural anxieties and technological limitations of the time period in which it is conceived.

What are Grusch’s claims?

Grusch claims that the United States is in possession of multiple “vehicles” or “spacecraft” constructed by a "non-human intelligence" and that their existence is being concealed from the public.

Grusch says that these spacecraft have “either landed or crashed” on Earth, and that both the U.S. government and defense contractors are currently working to reverse-engineer the technology.

Extraordinarily, Grusch even claimed that some of the vehicles contained the bodies of pilots, and that some of the spacecraft were “very large, like a football field kinda size.”

Grusch stated that the vehicles were not “necessarily extraterrestrial,” and speculated that they might come from another dimension, stating, “as somebody who studied physics, where maybe they’re coming from a different physical dimension, as described in quantum mechanics.”

Grusch described the vehicles as being composed of “extremely strange, heavy, atomic metal, you know, high up at the periodic table, arrangements that we don’t understand.”

Grusch hinted that some of the alien beings were malevolent, and had even killed humans. Grusch also implied that there is some kind of secret agreement between the government and aliens, and that people have been murdered to protect the secret.

Grusch claimed that he was taking “great personal risk and obvious professional risk” by speaking to the media.

Why is this science fiction?

Let’s start with the claim that these vehicles have crash-landed on Earth.

Whether one believes that said vehicles are extraterrestrial or inter-dimensional in origin, it is an extraordinary leap of logic to assume that they are janky enough to crash, let alone with the frequency that Grusch and other UFO enthusiasts claim.

Star Wars ,   Star Trek ,   Futurama , and   Rick and Morty   all frequently depict spaceships that crash-land, for the sake of narrative, rather than logic.

A crash forces the characters into a difficult situation, perhaps marooned on a hostile world, or forced to engage with alien inhabitants; it is a widely used trope because it sparks drama.

However, if one assumes that alien life is advanced enough to design vehicles capable of prolonged periods of space travel (or inter-dimensional travel), then why are they crashing like drunk teenagers?

Indeed, why would these vehicles be piloted at all?

Humanity is advanced enough to design automated drones, but we rarely see drones being deployed by aliens in fiction, simply because it would be underwhelming. We want stories in which humanity encounters alien beings in the flesh; it’s just not fun to imagine an automated invasion, even if it might be more logical.

Grusch’s claims rely on the assumption that advanced technology doesn’t really advance at all; crashes occur so frequently that we can collect fallen ships like trading cards, and that some contain bodies, like the space jockey from   Alien .

UFO enthusiasts often assume that our civilization is capable of recognizing unfathomably advanced technology, and attempting to reverse-engineer it. Again, these assumptions echo popular science fiction tropes.

Remember the much-mocked finale of   Independence Day , in which an alien invasion is thwarted by a virus sent from a Mac PowerBook? That was a silly plot twist, based on the idea that the technology of the 90’s was compatible with that of an advanced alien species capable of interstellar travel.

Yet, that goofy blockbuster logic is being credulously repeated by Grusch and other UFO enthusiasts.

Imagine, if you will, a medieval peasant stumbling upon a Mac PowerBook. The device would be completely unfathomable, indistinguishable from magic, even to the best and brightest minds of that time period.

None would even be able to recognize its function, let alone reverse-engineer it. So, why would we assume that we could grasp the complexities of an inter-dimensional spacecraft?

Of course, there’s also the awkward fact that so many people on the planet now carry high-definition cameras in their pockets, and yet, UFO footage is always a grainy, blurry mess.

Lastly, Grusch’s claims of a vast, insidious cover-up, so secret that others have been murdered to protect it, is undermined by the fact he has been given a platform to broadcast these claims.

The legendary astronomer Carl Sagan often said that he would love to see evidence of advanced alien life, but always emphasized the importance of critical thinking. Sagan famously stated, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

Grusch has provided no evidence for his claims, which are suspiciously close to common science fiction tropes, and should be recognized as such.

If the truth really is out there, it is unlikely to follow the logic of fiction.

Also, none of the claims are new. It's the same stuff we've been hearing for decades.

Just sitting here imagining intelligence of the "X" kind! Goodness, where that can take me/us is either "Vulcan" heights or Romelus!  In any case if this has been kept from us for a time now, then we the people of earth have largely been denied its opening gathering for FIRST CONTACT! 

No, I do not believe what he is stating either. But again, to me, it all kind of misses the point!  That is, if we have encountered alien lifeforms on our planet and our military is receiving materials from aliens worthy of reverse engineering:

1. Then we are not alone in our universe.

2.  The aliens have something we highly value.

3. Discussions (and fears) about what any alien wants should be paramount on the minds of us all.

4. Which nation or nations do they 'prefer' out of the populace of Earth?

Again, if we are not alone in the universe. That should be 'broadcast news extraordinare to all places far and wide and to all ships at and under the seas!

That is not what is happening here as the response by congress and those interviewed is 'muted.'

Arvo...they're here!! 😁

No they are not. "First Contact" can not be so controlled. Especially not when we (Earthlings - always wanted to have a reason to use that word ) can't hold 'local' information worth a damn. Also, the fear that some unknown "X" is out-maneuvering us on our own 'turf' is maddening enough for our defense systems to kick into overdrive. They have not done so yet.

there's a base in the outback!

I wonder how long it'll be before someone uses AI to make some really good but fake video evidence. Ships or wreckage in a hanger, bodies in a lab or morgue, even live ETs. There's been lots of stuff like that in the past, notably the alien autopsy video in the 90s, but with newer tech the production values could be so high that they could really cause a stir.

Which begs the question: If genuine evidence of alien visitation actually exists and ever came to light, would it be believed?

What kinds of evidence would actually be believable, when such a fantastical mythology has been developed around UFOs, and when there have been so many hoaxes in the past? 

What kinds of evidence would actuallybebelievable, when such a fantastical mythology has been developed around UFOs, and when there have been so many hoaxes in the past? 

Invasion...

Lol, that would do it.

Lol, that would do it.

If you ever run across the movies Iron Sky 1 or 2, give it 'em a watch (they are currently on Amazon Prime for no additional cost). So stupidly hilarious.

Why wouldnt an alien civilization visiting earth just appear over one or more of our major cities and make their presence known? It is safe to assume, I think, that they dont come here in order to be secretive about it.  Instead we hear accounts of ufo's zipping around in the sky performing aerial maneuvers not known to mankind. Or the aliens turning up in some backwater location instead of in the highest population areas. This doesnt make sense to me. 

Now we have the US Congress giving this credibility with a hearing. 

Why wouldnt an alien civilization visiting earth just appear over one or more of our major cities and make their presence known?

According to those who believe, they have. Including NYC & Mexico City. There have been 929 recorded sightings over Phoenix alone. Like you I continue to remain skeptical.

I think, that they dont come here in order to be secretive about it. 

They want our women, our farts, our water, our gold, our flesh, our planet, to rule us, to explore, to...  Oh hell, no one really knows.

This doesnt make sense to me. 

We have all kinds of cranks with theories, like the ruling class are lizard people. None of it makes any sense. 

Call me a crank but I've seen 2

Our military has advanced holograms of UFOs and other odd phenomenon for battlefield use. The same technology is used at Disneyland on some of the rides. 

Are you certain they are alien space craft? 

Yes. They were too weird not to be. And I wasn't alone when I saw them

There have been 929 recorded sightings over Phoenix alone.

In and of itself, that is ridiculous.  Are these aliens just shy? Why so many visits without communication? 

How can there have been thousands, or even hundreds , or even dozens, of alien visits to earth without a revelation of it, and without concrete physical proof? 

Ever hear of the Prime Directive?

Why wouldnt an alien civilization visiting earth just appear over one or more of our major cities and make their presence known? It is safe to assume, I think, that they dont come here in order to be secretive about it.  Instead we hear accounts of ufo's zipping around in the sky performing aerial maneuvers not known to mankind. Or the aliens turning up in some backwater location instead of in the highest population areas. This doesnt make sense to me.

There have been reports from cities. One I always remember reading about was the Washington flap of 1952. Reports like that, with multiple witnesses, and also show up on radar, are the hardest to dismiss.

One reason there may be more reports from rural areas is that they're easier to see. They stand out more, especially at night.

Not long ago I actually had what I'd have to call a UFO sighting after dark myself, in June of 2019. Two large, very bright red-orange lights that appeared to be a few hundred feet off the ground, slowly moving all the way across the sky from one side to the other. Not at the same time, but one after the other. When the first one caught my eye I thought it was a meteor fireball – that's how bright it was – but it didn't take long to see that it wasn't. I ended up walking all the way out to the open front yard in the middle of the night trying to figure out what it was. It took several minutes for it move out of sight, and when I turned to go back to the house another one showed up and did exactly same thing as the first, following what appeared to be exactly the same track, from south to north. There was no sound, and neither of them made any weird movements, but it was enough to freak me out. I still can't figure out what they were. They were too big and bright to be satellites (also the wrong color), and they couldn't have been airplanes with landing lights on, because the brightness stayed the same all the way across the sky, from both forward and rear perspectives (and again the wrong color). They do fit the bill of what UFO people call orbs, though. Not saying I saw aliens, or even alien tech like drones or something, but they were certainly unidentified flying objects. I almost reported them, lol, but I didn't.

All I know is this: If humans could travel the cosmos, in person and/or with unmanned craft, we would. No doubt about it. And if we found a planet full of life, including intelligent life that had produced a civilization, I'm not so sure we would just plop down in a big city somewhere and jump out and say, "Here we are!" We'd probably want to keep a low profile for quite some time, perhaps a very long time, observing and bringing back samples for scientific study. Less populated areas would likely be preferred for that. We wouldn't want to cause too much havoc and disrupt observations of their natural behavior, and there could also be danger to ourselves.

I have no idea if ETs exist and have been checking us out or not, but I don't feel like I can just dismiss the possibility completely out of hand as if it was some kind of ridiculous, impossible concept, because I don't think it is.

'Weird' is not evidence. It's not that I disbelieve you, it's just that I require more evidence to make declarative statements.

Is that from Star Trek? 

Ok. The first one I saw was silvery and shimmering like it was pulsing. It had the shape of a box kite. My dad saw it, too. The second one I saw I was coming home from a date with my boyfriend. This "vehicle" did a quick pass over his truck and had red and green lights. It disappeared pretty quickly after it buzzed his truck. This was 1980 and drones hadn't been invented yet. It was near an area called Chestnut Ridge. Google it if you want, it has a history of weird stuff

here's a link about the freaky stuff

pennlive

Of course

15 or 20 years ago some people that were having a neighborhood festival here in chicago sent some candle kites like these into the sky.

Soon they were floating over other parts of the city that were not aware of what or why these lights were in the sky. From a distance, which is how most people were seeing them, they looked like a ufo sighting, and dozens of reports were called in on 911. 

I'm sorry I couldn't read your link without creating a login. One of the reasons I'm skeptical is the amount of discrepancy in UFO shapes and sizes from long cigar shapes to boxes, saucers and lights. We are at the ass end of a universe at the ass end of the milky way. Why so much traffic from so many different crafts? Are we hairless apes that interesting? 

Why so many visits without communication? 

Just being the Devil's Advocate here... How often do you try to communicate with ants? 

Your comment pretty much sums things up as far as I see it too. 

How often do you try to communicate with ants? 

If they were ants that ran a planet I would. 

They are well known to Native peoples and have been recorded for centuries with us and are called the ''Sky People''. 

Just to remind you that Mars is known as the ''Red Planet'' that should tell you they exist and are among us. Well among you all since I'm already Red and here. 

These weren't floating candle lanterns. Too big and too bright. They actually cast a little light on things around me. Like I said, they were as bright as a meteor fireball. If you've ever seen one of those outside the city lights, you'd know what I mean. I see them here a few times a year.

For a while I thought they might have been military fighters with afterburners on, but far enough away that they would appear to be moving slowly and with no sound, but then I read that they don't use afterburners for long periods of time like that. Also, I looked at videos of afterburners in use and they weren't nearly as big and bright as these at a distance.

I still can't figure it out. 

We were sitting on our deck one evening with a friend and were probably pretty loud due to mass quantities of alcohol consumed. I think our neighbors decided to mess with us so they lit one of those lanterns and sent it up. We all thought it was a UFO. A few days later I found the spent lantern in my driveway

They are well known to Native peoples and have been recorded for centuries with us and are called the ''Sky People''. 

I've seen the Ancient Aliens episode.

Just to remind you that Mars is known as the ''Red Planet'' that should tell you they exist and are among us.

Hahahaha! 

GASP!

Now, I am concerned enough: Clutching my pearls! 

"Why wouldnt an alien civilization visiting earth just appear over one or more of our major cities and make their presence known?"

They might be walking among us and we don't know it.  Or they're intelligent enough to not make their presence known because they're smart enough to know humans are, as I've said elsewhere, too immature and violent and apt to try to destroy them.

I just started to think about Damon Knight's short SciFi story "To Serve Man" that was broadcast on the Twilight Zone many years ago.  Since that time I've noted from photos that many Americans, many seen in Walmart stores, seem to be getting prepared for the intended outcome.  And maybe due to fast food restaurants that have proliferated in China, many people here who when I first arrived were quite slim seem to be filling out more than necessary.

None of it makes any sense. 

Or it all makes sense.

In my encounter I jumped out of my car naked with a gun in my hand. 

I assume the one over the Temple Mount was fired upon.

Maybe their only defense is being able to outrun bullets.

This is my rifle

This is my gun

This is for fighting

This is for fun

Earth Final Conflict S01E01 Decision

First Contact (formal). Public not private. Of course, the alien is 'welcomed' by undergoing the test by 'fire'! (It is the U.S. A. after all!)  I always loved the theme music for the series. 

Your lack of faith disturbs me

This reminds me of the discussions about God's and the supernatural existence of things - that always has the rejoinder going: "That's nice. Prove it."

I don't know if it's the same guy, but I'm watching the UFO stuff on National Geographic - UFOs: Investigating the Unknown and the one guy on here seems to have a similar background. It's hard to tell as I have the sound down and I'm doing data entry at work so I'm not getting all the details.

EDIT: Nope not the same guy.

There is something else that I find. . . distracting about this story of UFO and UAO (if that is the abbreviation being newly used) and that is this new cable news station (for me anyway) News Nation is crediting itself with having giving this UFO/UAO narrative its 'legs' and getting it a House hearing. The odd thing about it is News Nation has branded itself as a straight-talking centrist outfit working to bring some of the extremists on the left and right back to the center (where centrists are). Yet, this story has many holes in it which can not be easily overlooked, such as: Why the extraordinary step of declaring alien life exist in our universe DEFINITIVELY has not been uttered or written down officially. 

What is happening on this story lacks: Why, what, how, who, when, and where of critical-thinking. Something you would hope to find in a 'balanced' responsible news network. And yet, News Nation is proud of this 'first' and it having achieved historical level with a congressional hearing as is.

What it comes down to as far as I'm concerned is that if you can believe there is a God in heaven you can damn well believe there have been actual UFO's sighted here.  There are a lot of people in this world who believe there is a God in heaven. 

Saw a UFO. Have never seen a god (unless, of course, they're one and the same).

Von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods does make a certain amount of sense.

Chariots of the Gods is one of the most debunked ideas in history. 

There are books, and hours and hours of you tube videos that do nothing but disprove the claims of Chariots Of The Gods and similar. 

I think I would be more inclined to believe in angels than that there are beings from other planets here on earth. 

Pretty sure that YouTube has never convinced me of anything.

Nobody knows, JR, nobody knows.  

YOU might not have seen a "god" on Earth, but there are millions of Americans who believe they have.

Do you believe in angels? About 7 in 10 U.S. adults do, poll shows  LINK-> nbclosangeles .

If it comes down to choosing to believe in the existence of angels as against aliens, I'm putting my money on the aliens.

Oh, I can believe in off-world life somewhere out there. My issue is with this mode of presentation. . .always 'fleeing' as if caught peeking through a window. Besides that God suffers from the same 'problem': Presentation is absent. The. . . thing. . .has been talked about up one side and down the other-back and forth-top and bottom, left and right, high and low, God (otherworldly) and Alien (off-worldly) for centuries. . .at some point all that is left to 'do' or 'say' is come from behind the veil and announce yourself. Confirm yourself!

Then it becomes less of a matter of faith (God) or a hypothesis (Aliens).

Back in the early seventies, I saw a UFO.  It looked like an inverted  V, with on light in front and two on both sides.  I couldn't judge it's size or altitude since I had no reference point.  It was hovering almost directly above me and after a minute or so, it slowly started acceleration until it vanished from my sight.  The two friends that were with me couldn't see it, they didn't have the psychedelic that put me in a higher, more perceptive dimension. 

UFO Crash Sites

Crash sites. Multiple. Apparently, aliens capable of traveling across interstellar space, are like the worst possible pilots. Does that seem likely? Really?

Dogs are non-human biological, right?