Israel's annihilation of Hamas is the proportionate response
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Hamas murdered more than 700 people and wounded many thousands during its invasion of Israel on Saturday. The casualty numbers keep rising. Even for a society that has so long suffered terrorist persecution, this attack was extreme and catastrophic.
Most of the world is disgusted by the terrorist atrocities. Video clips reveal that the barbarians who claim to be freedom fighters stripped and abused civilian women, desecrated their bodies, terrorized screaming children, lined up Holocaust survivors, and dragged them off as captives. The Hamas fighters and their supporters yelped and capered in delight. It was a grotesque and damnable spectacle. The images testify to an enduring truth that the killers are motivated by a fetishistic desire to subjugate and slaughter Jews simply because they are Jews.
Jew hatred is enshrined in the Hamas charter, which declares the group's struggle to be "against the Jews." This is not about freeing land that was never a country — referred to as Palestine. It is about venting murderous hatred against a people. Hamas embraces antisemitic falsehoods, even referring in its charter to the discredited Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Unalloyed hatred undergirds what Hamas did on Saturday and what it has done for decades.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders recognize that the latest mass atrocity has changed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict forever. It made the long-standing and explicit Hamas goal of annihilating the Jewish nation a looming reality. As long as Hamas exists, its reason for being will be to exterminate Jews. This is uniting the divided Israeli polity to wage a defensive war of survival. This war is necessary, unavoidable — a moral and existential necessity.
As night follows day, there will be politicians and activists on the Left who denounce Israeli retaliation. They will suggest, perhaps after three or four days of Israeli military action in Gaza, that the Jewish state's response is "disproportionate." When this moral casuistry comes, as it will, it should be rejected. Israel must have a free hand to destroy Hamas.
This point must be emphasized because it is common (and uncommonly stupid) to decry the supposed excesses of Israeli military action. The insipid clamoring posits that because hundreds of Hamas or Islamic Jihad rocket launches tend to kill only a few Israelis, Israel is unjustified in responding with air strikes that kill larger numbers of Hamas fighters. This ignores the effect rockets have on Israeli civil society, forcing citizens to abandon their lives for bunkers. No credible democratic government can be expected to tolerate such aggression against its citizens.
Hamas has the intention and capacity to rampage even amid Israeli bunkers. This expands the proper limits of Israeli proportionality. A sustained Israeli campaign to annihilate Hamas, not just its leaders but also its soldiers, support structures, and capabilities is proportionate. If the Israelis leave a heap of smoldering ash where Hamas used to be, that would be proportionate. Because Gaza is densely populated and Hamas uses mosques and apartment buildings as bases for its military operations, Israel's campaign will be bloody, and innocent Palestinians will die. But Israel has the right to wage attritional war against an enemy hell-bent on wiping it off the Earth.
Hamas cannot be allowed to manipulate global public relations to its advantage. It is surely banking on a few days of painful conflict, giving way to Israel buckling under international pressure to suspend military action. The United States must ensure that this does not happen. Whether that means United Nations Security Council vetoes or U.S. action to impose costs on those who try to prevent Israel from defending itself, the U.S. must stand firm.
It is not certain that Israel can succeed in eliminating Hamas. But it has the right to try. The more of Hamas's forces, weapons, and structures that Israel can eliminate the safer Israelis will be, and the better the Middle East will be. The more of Hamas's forces, weapons, and structures that survive this war, the greater threat Israelis will continue to face.
Previous conflicts have shown that if Israel imposes sufficient costs on Hamas, its leaders stop the attacks in favor of cease-fires. A far harsher cost must now be imposed to restore deterrence in Israel's favor.
Like those Palestinian terrorists who hijacked airliners and cruise ships in decades past, Hamas claims that its ultimate goal is the liberation of the Palestinian people. We now have proof that Hamas's strategy for freedom is not one of violence pursuant to political negotiation but rather of genocide. For Hamas, a free Palestine is not something to be constructed by peace talks and land swaps but by the construction of a great new Auschwitz.
Having tasted that bitter ambition, Israel has the right to use great force to prevent its further construction.
Let 'em kill a hostage on YouTube. It'll be the Gaza Pit.
Saw a story that Tlaib still has not commented on the Hamas atrocities.
I hear she is still hung over from her celebration of the murder of hundreds of Israelis.
That, and screaming yiyiyiyiyiyiyiyyiyiyiyiyi a thousand times in a screeching voice can be the making of one hell of a hangover.
No, she did finally respond and it's about what you would expect. She grieves for the lives lost but refused to condemn Hamas for their actions. Instead she pointed back at Israel for "causing" all the issues.
Figures.
She is in mourning right now, as is Omar, that Hamas did not cause more damage and wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
Isreal, do what you need to do. We did, so can't say much.
"As long as Hamas exists, its reason for being will be to exterminate Jews."
"As night follows day, there will be politicians and activists on the Left who denounce Israeli retaliation. They will suggest, perhaps after three or four days of Israeli military action in Gaza, that the Jewish state's response is "disproportionate." When this moral casuistry comes, as it will, it should be rejected. Israel must have a free hand to destroy Hamas."
"Because Gaza is densely populated and Hamas uses mosques and apartment buildings as bases for its military operations, Israel's campaign will be bloody, and innocent Palestinians will die."
Some leftist fools still don't understand how the Hamas terrorists hide behind women and children and old people. They don't even care about their own Palestinian people.
This is not the time for criticizing the Democrats, but the time for unity as it was when 9/11 happened.
That seems to be the prevalent attitude on today's Internet-- turning everything into a discussion of American politics, with each side (both left and right) using any opportunity to bash the other side. And yes-- that does dilute focus on the actual topic.
Of course there's nothing wrong with at times focusing on American politics-- but personally, at times I find it a distraction.
Then maybe some people should stop blaming Israel for what happened to them.
Some say that Israel had it coming for decades.
Some say that Hamas is the epitome of evil.
So glad I don't have a dog in this fight.
Both Netanyahu and Hamas are evil in my eyes.
America should stay far away from this war.
We hope that you never have a dog in a fight. Dog fighting is a cruel, blood sport.
That was an expression of disgust.
Did, however, rescue an Akita from the ring at gunpoint one night.
Another story for another day.
The idiom isn’t an expression of disgust but rather of a lack of concern and not affected either way by the outcome of something.
Huh?
The idiom that you used, “I don’t have a dog in the fight” doesn’t express disgust but rather a lack of concern for any outcome.
Lately I haven't been following developments in the Middle East as closely as I used to. But if memory serves, here's something I seem to remember:
Hamas has always made great use of human shields. There is a big, main hospital in Gaza. And Hamas has placed its main headquarters directly underneath. (So obviously Israel would have the choice as to whether to avoid attacking Hamas main HQs in order to creating large casualties-- or attacking there and causing large deaths of innocent people.
Taking into consideration the atrocities Hamas has already committed with the hostages, I wouldn't be surprised if they used them as human shields.
Excuse me. I require medical attention immediately! I just agreed to something Buzz said and my systems aren't taking it well.
Seriously, though, the graphic says it all. Nice job.
BTW, reading that, I imagine most people assume that "Hamas atrocities" means atrocities against the Jews. (And in some cases against indigenous Christians),
However Hamas has a rival-- the PLO ("Palestine Liberation Organization"):
Tensions between the PLO and Hamas came to a head in 2007, and an armed confrontation in the Gaza Strip left Hamas in control of the region. Abbas then dissolved the Hamas-led legislature and set up an emergency cabinet in its stead. The move effectively reestablished the PLO’s dominance in the West Bank, but its loss of the Gaza Strip was lasting.
At the time there was a "war" between the PLO and Hamas. For control of Gaza. (IIRC it only lasted a few days). At the times Hamas committed many absolutely barbaric acts towards their fellow Palestinians (those in PLO).
And Hamas to this day Hamas rules Gaza with an iron fist . . .
Hamas is even more barbaric than ever. They have just announced that for every Gazan civilian that Israel kills in its retaliation, Hamas will kill, and video broadcast to the world, one of the hostages - shades of Daniel Pearl to be carried on by those uncivilized monsters. What first went through my mind was that Israel should answer by saying that for every hostage killed they will kill a hundred Gazan civilians but I know that Israelis, because of the fact that the Talmud says as seen in the movie Schindler's List, engraved on the gold ring presented to Schindler when he was leaving, "Who saves one life saves the world entire", would never carry out that threat because Jews are not savages like Hamas.
If you have not seen it when it was on the Front (Home) Page, this article describes and explains what actually occurred - the vacating of all Jews from Gaza followed by a peaceful Palestinian government not requiring any kind of blockade, but then Hamas defeating the PLO in Gaza, the Hamas openly stated desire to destroy Israel which then required the blockade, which nobody wants to admit is also a blockade by Egypt, because of course to defend themselves only the Jews are bad. (Do I really need to post a "/s" for those last few words?)
LOL. I forgot to post the link to the article:
Hmm. Since I think the Islamic militant's mindset is that anything goes against non-Muslims or even the wrong kind of Muslim, this doesn't seem more barbaric than ever. I have always assumed these guys sit around on their down time thinking of the worst things they can do to others.
As this war goes on and Palestinian casualties begin to multiply, many of the countries now supporting Israel will begin to pressure Israel to stand down. That has always been the history of these incidents. I hope this time will be different.
Over the years I've heard many people criticize "the Israeli Blockade"-- as if Israel totally controlled all of Gaza's borders.
Which shows their ignorance. If they bothered to look at a map. they would see that Gaza borders two countries (the other one is Egypt). So even if Israel made their Gaza borders airtight, it wouldn't matter-- if Egypt opened its borders.
There was a time when Egypt was much more lenient with their border. But then there started to be incidents of Hamas terrorists crossing into Egypt-- and murdering Egyptians!
I'm pretty sure it will be. Or, even if Israeli is pressured they won't give. Because this time Hamas has outdone even itself in terms of the number, and extreme barbarism of there actions.
LOL. I forgot to post the link to the article: thenewstalkers
Thanks for posting that-- I just checked it out, good article.
I also posted a link there (to a really good pictorial-- covering the actual forced withdrawal of Israelis from Gaza.
And BTW< since Israel totally ended its occupation of Gaza, many apologists for the Hamas terror group continual refer to Gaza as "occupied"-- or "occupied by Israel". Another big lie-- Israel left-- there's not a Jew in the entire place.
Which is what happened to American journalist Daniel Pearl. Soon after the barbarians beheaded him only because he was Jewish the image of that gruesome event was on the net, but it's nowhere to be found now.
Unfortunately that's no longer the case.
Fixing to be a whole lot of them...
Far right wing fascism breeds cowards.
I don't know, that's beyond my grade level. I am intolerant of extremism and extremists of any shape, size or colour. As it happens I'm in total agreement on the issue here with many of the NT right-wingers with whom I rarely if ever agreed with before.
Hamas is nothing but trouble, destroy it
How?
If Israel wipes out Hamas (and I hope they do) you still have two million people in Gaza and Israel has said they will govern Gaza and if I remember correctly also the West Bank. Israel gave up Gaza in 2005 after 38 years of occupation and during the time of occupation, things were a powder keg. If Israel does what it says it will do except the same thing as the last occupation.
This is Shimon Peres's comment when Israel gave up Gaza:
It seems that things are going back to a time when it didn't work. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be any alternative since the Palestinians will not accept anything offered to them by Israel no matter how good it is.
In addition to Hamas is Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah both extremely dangerous and IMO you will see them pick up attacks on Israel and possibly with coordinated attacks with Hamas and Iran will be there feeding them.
Morning...I know which side of the border I would rather be on...and it is sure as hell not on Gaza's...
I think that the seed GregTx posted "The Ghosts of Gaza" explains that time best.
Many people assume that there was an independent Arab state (a "Palestine") in Gaza before Israel occupied it. But that was not true. Before Israel occupied Gaza, Egypt did!
IIRC, when Israel ended its occupation of Gaza they first wanted to give it back to Egypt to govern (On the assumption that under Egyptian occupation things would be calmer). But that never happened. Why? Because Egypt didn't want it back!
Yes, I'm aware that there was no independent Arab state and it was controlled by Egypt and before that it was the British and it was divided as Palestine and Transjordan.
Jordon doesn't want the Palestinians nor does any other country in the ME.
Many Americans hate Arabs (called "towel heads") and hate Muslims and Israel has always been used as a proxy for expressing that hate. If Israel was in the South Pacific instead of in the middle of Arab nations we would never hear about it.
Israel cannot incorporate the Palestinians as full fledged citizens , which would be the most logical solution to all this, because Israel is a "Jewish state" by law. Since Palestinians are not Jewish they can never be granted the power to develop as an influential political faction in mainstream Israel. This is part of the reason pro Palestinian groups call Israel and apartheid state.
I dont think the government of Israel , as presently constituted , ever intends to give the Palestinians independence and their own state. Israel doesnt want to give up the control of any land within their borders, which is understandable , but what comes with that is a literally endless cycle of occasional Palestinian uprisings.
The Palestinians aka Hamas don't give shit about having independence, their own state, or no more settlements.
Their only purpose in life appears to be to kill and exterminate every last Jew. The Jews have ancestral claim to that land and every right to claim it as their own now..
I'm not sure that's accurate. That is, I'm not sure Palestinians and Hamas are necessarily the same thing. Palestinians were first under the iron fist of the PLA and Arafat and then, later, Hamas, Hamas probably being the worst because their master was always Iran. I watched an interview of one of our retired Generals, on CNN, I think, and he stated that it was sort of an open secret that there were those in Gaza that actually wanted Israel to come back so that the average Palestinian could get their necks out from under Hamas's boot heel.
I'm hardly an expert in this sort of thing, but I do have sympathy for the Palestinians. It seems to me that all the political powers in that area, except Israel, think of them only as pawns a fodder for their policies toward Israel. I think they have more respect for Israel than they do for the Palestinians. I think they are some of the most crapped upon people on the planet and it's their "Moslem brothers" who are doing most of the crapping.
I suspect Israel knows this, which is why they always put things in terms of "Hamas". I think they have to go into Gaza. I think they have to make maximum effort to take down every last Hamas member they can find. Then, I think they have to stay and do all in their power to provide as much economic opportunity for the average Palestinian as they can. Educate as much as possible. Improve quality of life as much as possible. Give them what no one else has ever given them before. It will take time, but, in the end, I think it provides the most hope.
The American left is joined at the hip with Hamas & the Palestinians. That is the problem.
Reps. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) and Cori Bush (D-Mo.) are facing criticism from fellow Democrats over weekend statements in which they each labeled Israel as an apartheid state and called for the U.S. to end funding to the nation, amid a surprise attack by Hamas that killed hundreds.
Tlaib, Bush criticized by Democrats over statements calling for end to Israel support | The Hill
In the meantime, Americans are also being killed and we have a president talking about "climate."
It is disgusting.
Harvard is aligned with Hamas,
Joint Statement by Harvard Palestine Solidarity Groups on the Situation in Palestine
We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.
Israel is entirely responsible for the rape, torture, kidnapping and murder of its people!
If so, then has the US DOD now officially aligned itself with Putin and against their Commander In Chief, The President of the United States of America, since a drunken DOD spokesperson is allowed to viciously publicly bash and abuse him on US social media sites?
Source?
You got it...
Did you like the CCNY Statement:
""Palestinians standing against Israeli oppression is commendable in the pursuit of justice for the complete freedom of Palestine...While Palestinian resistance fighters in Gaza this week are justifiably prompted in their attacks toward Israel, CCNY SJP wants to acknowledge that the killing of any life is always undignified and heartbreaking."
Parading naked dead bodies "undignified"?
No, but considering that it is unattributed and there is no link to your source I would not attribute that sentiment to New York or New Yorkers in general, any more than I believe that a Palestinian student group speaks for Harvard University or that some tired old ex service members on US social media speak for the US DOD...
Trump's main claim to fame re: Israel is the pending agreement between Israel (Netanyahu) and Saudi Arabia, which was brokered by Jared Kushner. This agreement, which gave no benefit to the Palestinians in Israel at all, is believed to be one of the reasons an attack on Israel happened at this time.
It is more likely Trump caused the attack in Israel than that he would have prevented it.
It was a coalition of 34 student groups at Harvard:
African American Resistance Organization
Bengali Association of Students at Harvard College
Harvard Act on a Dream
Harvard Arab Medical and Dental Student Association
Harvard Chan Muslim Student Association
Harvard Chan Students for Health Equity and Justice in Palestine
Harvard College Pakistan Student Association
Harvard Divinity School Muslim Association
Harvard Middle Eastern and North African Law Student Association
Harvard Graduate School of Education Islamic Society
Harvard Graduate Students for Palestine
Harvard Islamic Society
Harvard Law School Justice for Palestine
Harvard Divinity School Students for Justice in Palestine
Harvard Jews for Liberation
Harvard Kennedy School Bangladesh Caucus
Harvard Kennedy School Muslim Caucus
Harvard Kennedy School Muslim Women’s Caucus
Harvard Kennedy School Palestine Caucus
Harvard Muslim Law School Association
Harvard Pakistan Forum
Harvard Prison Divest Coalition
Harvard South Asian Law Students Association
Harvard South Asians for Forward-Thinking Advocacy and Research
Harvard TPS Coalition
Harvard Undergraduate Arab Women's Collective
Harvard Undergraduate Ghungroo
Harvard Undergraduate Muslim Women’s Medical Alliance
Harvard Undergraduate Nepali Students Association
Harvard Undergraduate Palestine Solidarity Committee
Middle East and North African Graduate School of Design Student Society
Neighbor Program Cambridge
Sikhs and Companions of Harvard Undergraduates
Society of Arab Students
Who has suggested otherwise?
Negotiations are underway. Saudi's are pressing Israel to hand back to the PA% percent of the West Bank. That would be in keeping with the Oslo agreements that Israel recently pledged to uphold. Such a deal could have then restarted Israeli-Palestinian negations. Hamas doesn't want that and nether does Iran.
So normalizing relations with UAE and Qatar don’t count? Plus fuck off palestinians, if Palestine wanted to benefit the worthless fucks would have joined the conversation. 3 years in and the left is still trying to blame trump for Biden being an incompetent fuck up.
I'm going to pretty much walk back the previous post, especially the above portion. That won't work because that will not appeal to how Palestinians think. It's why they say no to every offer, no matter how beneficial to them. We are offering what doesn't motivate them.
Couldn't help but bring somebody who has nothing to do with what is happening into the conversation; a deflection.
Much like 7.3.7.
I saw that this morning.
When Iran attacked or even threatened Americans the response was quick!
They didn't fuck with Trump!
so give that fucktard trump a gun and drop him and a planeload of his sycophants into gaza...
what's stopping him? oh wait, didn't he have to surrender his passport recently? bibi won't care...
The only thing that motivates them is "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free."
For Hamas, a centimeter is too far.
Good luck on that one.
Your commentary shows a lack of ability to distinguish real world differences that exist between a group of people and the bodies that govern those people.
What is more disgusting than a variability of opinion is the blanket demonization of people who belong to a separate group in another country because some members of the group make statements that you do not agree with.
You have lost all sense of proportion and paint with a push broom where you should be using a fine brush.
That's right, you have to be very careful when you seek to attack the person rather than a POV.
Typical leftist lib MO/SOP.
Sounds like experience talking there.
If that is all you have then I know I made my point. I don't attack people anyway. I tell them the truth and give my opinion. I can't help it if your version of the truth is incomplete in a very misleading way.
Truth can sometimes be highly subjective. One person's truth can easily be another's fallacy.
When speaking of opinions and other subjective matters yes. Objectively not so much.
I can't say for sure because there's no proof yet-- but I'm pretty certain this recent attack by Hamas was planned by Iran. In fact, IMO there's a good possibility that the whole thing was both planned and run by Iran.
It was an unusually sophisticated attack-- I don't think Hamas is capable of that.
In addition-- consider the timing. There's a good chance Iran did it now in hopes of preventing the success of ongoing talks re: a deal for peace between Israel and the Saudis.
Granted there is no proof at the moment but as you stated Iran is concerned and wants to stop the proposed peace deal between SA and Israel. It remains to be seen how this attack by Hamas will affect those talks.
Welcome back Krishna.
According to Wall Street Journal and other sources, looks like there is evidence that Iran had a hand in planning this Hamas attack , although U.S officials like Blinken, and even some in the Israeli military, continue to deny that there is any such proof. Certainly Tehran has a vested interest in putting an end to the Peace Accord negotiations between Israel and Saudi Arabia.
It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out. But since it is well known that Iran trains and finances many terrorist groups in the region, even if Israel wipes out Hamas, are they going to be prepared to face other even larger groups like Hezbollah? Looks like there is already a skirmish at the Israeli-Lebanese border .
A Hamas leader just came out and said that neither Hezbollah or Iran were involved. I'm sure that we are going to hearing a lot of this in the coming days, Freewill.
Israel made a big mistake when they ended their occupation of Gaza-- they just left, without demanding any concessions from the Arabs in return.
I agree, that was a big mistake.
As I mentioned, I haven't been keeping up with events in the Middle East as much as I used to. So I could be wrong, but what the Israelis (well, at least Netanyahu) want is a Jewish state on the West Bank. While opinion may be divided, IIRC most of them don't want Gaza back.
And as I remember, the Israelis completely left Gaza. But since they thought that asking Egypt to go back there and to occupy Gaza (before Israel occupied it it was never a Palestinian state-- before Israel it was occupied by Egypt).
You would think the Egyptians would want more territory-- but the refused Israel's offer-- the Egyptians were smart enough to know that there were too many crazies there and it would just end up being a big headache for Egypt!
So since Israel totally left Gaza: the "Palestinians" have their own totally independent, totally self-governing entity-- Gaza.
But they refuse to admit the fact that now they do have a state because then they can't claim that unfairly they don't have a country 'cause the do (its Gaza).
As emotionally satisfying as contemplating the complete destruction of Hamas is, I don't think that's a realistic probability. Even if Israel managed to kill every last Hamas fighter, commander, spokesperson and whatever else, hating Israel is the Palestinian's national religion. The mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers, cousins and sons and daughters will still be left. I can't see it ever ending unless the rest of the Islamic countries get tired of the unceasing crisis after crisis and forcibly remove and absorb the Palestinians into their own countries. THAT won't happen because they don't like the Palestinians any more than anyone else does. It would be like asking them to take in and care for rabid dogs.
Solutions have been suggested - The Jordan solution being the most credible, but for the reasons you stated who wants a rabid dog in their house.
Ain't gonna happen. They already know the majority of Palestinians are trouble makers. And while they tout the "virtues" of the Palestinians-- that's just a way of bashing the Jews. The last thing they need is more Palestinian crazies inside their country!
What are they waiting for? Oh wait, this is the same administration that abandoned American citizens in Afghanistan.
Not exactly a good comparison. We did really fuck up in Afghanistan-- leaving Americans who had no way out.
But Americans in Israel can get out easily.
1. Via Jordan: If commercial flights stop, they can easily cross over into by bordering Jordan (by land). Jordan is a friendly country to U.S. citizens. They used to keep Americans out if they were Jews but I believe that's changed so even Americans who are Jewish can cross their border..
2. Israel has a long land border with Egypt. (When I went to Egypt from Israel it was by plane-- but the route (via Sharm el Sheikh) is far from Gaza terrorists.
3. By boat from Haifa port in northern Israel.
(The more you know . . .)
I walked to Egypt when I was in Eilat I also toured Petra in Jordan when I was in Israel.
I thought I would never agree with an opinion put forth by The Washington Examiner, but this seed certainly changed my mind about that.
Hamas has not and will never change, and even though they revised their original charter which made it clear that their intention was to annihilate Israel from the face of the map, the revision makes little change, as the ADL has pointed our.
LINK ->
A lot of people would be happy with the elimination of Hamas' presence. (And that includes a lot of people who aren't Israelis). But the real problem may be Iran-- if Hamas is eliminated they will train & motivate other proxies in the area!
(Of course Iran can't-- and shouldn't be-- eliminated.)
Dated an Israeli babe once.
She was equally as dangerous as I was.
All Israelis go through military training.
It was hot knowing that she was bad to the bone.
When you see Gal Gadot in movies, remember that she was IDF trained and enjoys doing her own stunts.
Sec of state blinken and the odious tlaib are both advocating for a cease fire, so the Biden administration has lined up with the democratic socialists’ position. I know Biden was too busy partying with a band at a picnic today but I wonder if others from the admin were marching in support of Hamas today?
Hamas having such a good friend as the Iranian spy rob Malley in the admin is still paying dividends.
Are you by any chance referring to this article someone seeded earlier today?
Encouraging Israel to enter into a cease fire 24 hours after the worst terrorist attack in its history is the exact opposite of rock solid support.
If you think Israelis going to change its position (just because they've been "encouraged" by a few foreign politicians-- well, you don't know the Israelis very well!)
And that's not even considering the massive barbarism and cold bloodied murder of innocent Israeli civilians-- inclusdng the elderly and children- in recent days).
Israel-- letting the likes of Blinken and/or Tlaib influencing Israeli policies? A friend of mine has said that most Americans have very little knowledge of the dynamics of Israeli politics. I agree!)
Far right wing fascists in the US would have us dropping nukes on Gaza and killing everybody
Stephen L. miller said it better:
blinken is working with the Turkish foreign minister fadan:
what more could Hamas reasonably ask for?
Not surprising in the least.
Just checked the time of that post-- it was 3 hrs ago. Since then it has been verified that Americans are amongst the hostages in Gaza.
they are working to discover whether Iran played any role in aiding Hamas.
I'm not working on it. At this point not only am I pretty sure Iran played a role in the planning -- but speaking as a typical Quiet Freshman. I believe they may have actually directed it as it happened...
And speaking of Iran-- they've been very active lately. Not only in their role (assumed) in this attack, but internally they are arresting-- even murdering-- young woman who refuse to wear headcoverings-- or who don't wear it the way their ruling government would like.
And IIRC there's a bloody civil war in Yemen-- which would've probably ended by now if Iran hadn't been supplying the rebels.
???
???
“God willing, the cancer of the usurper Zionist regime will be eradicated at the hands of the Palestinian people and the Resistance forces throughout the region. #AlAqsaStorm,” Khamenei posted, along with video footage of the slaughter at the music fest.
Aw c'mon-- what are you laughing at?
Everybody knows: A little pussy never hurt anyone!
That smiley says "good one" referring to calling yourself a Freshman since you've been on thenewstalkers since it started. And the "pussy" was to remind you of your previous avatar.
Oh that's funny! Actually I was thinking of another pussy I have known . . .
And what could the Israelis care less about!
As to my feelings about both Biden and Blinken, and not just on this issue...
Israel has built a successful and prosperous country in spite of being attacked many times, what have the Palestinians accomplished in the same time?
They have made an excellent example of a shit hole.
I totally agree!
And BTW, here's something someone told me about that we never think about: LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION!
Gaza is located with a significant stretch of prime Meditteranean coastline. Which is worth a fortune!
If they would agree to peace they could develop it with resorts and dockages for large Yachts, They would become prosperous!
(And another thing-- the Arab world is YUGE! And many of them have large fortunes from oil. Folks who would pay large sums for Arab run resorts on the Mediteranean).
You are quite right - a while ago I read an valid opinion that Gaza could be a second Riviera.
The Israelis are going to put an end to Hamas.
Let's hope so.
The sooner the better.
The people living in Gaza need to be freed from their Hamas oppressors.
I hope so. And then they need to bomb Iran if they were the ones behind this attack
And then there is the never mentioned question of what the US should do.
This long tweet by Victor Davis Hansen:
Is it the mass mutilations, the rapes, the desecrations of corpses, the beheadings, the murdering of women, the elderly, and children, that so excites them all—as if they were gleefully watching sacrificial victims marched up to the top of an Aztec temple in ancient Tenochtitlán? Or rather is their frenzy due to unspoken terror that Hamas at last has gone too far in its premodern savagery? There are now no more of its patrons with the power to call off the IDF. And so they may finally get the existential war that Hamas always for decades had bragged about and begged for. And the proper response to all this here in the U.S.? All monies to the West Bank and Gaza should be immediately cut off. The Iran transfers, if our State Department’s pleas are correct that they are not yet finalized, should be stopped immediately. Sanctions and embargos should be placed on all Iranian exports.
The alternative would be to keep subsidizing those who provide the wherewithal for murderers, rapists and precivilizational mutilators. If it is true that Hamas killer-masterminds have been residing in Qatar, and, as often has been alleged, enjoying Qatar as a financial clearing-house for terrorist operations, and given Qatar has been blaming Israel for its own murdered, then why do we persist in basing the United States Central Command (USCC) and United State Air Force Central Command (USAFCC) at Qatar government facilities? There are, of course, realist arguments for our relationship with Qatar. But the world in the Middle East has now irrevocably changed and we need to make the necessary adjustments and separate from this de facto Al Jazeerist enemy.
Expect some terrorists to attempt to join the swarm at our open border. And soon “refugees” from Gaza and the West Bank will be likely demanding asylum here in the Great Satan. In reaction, we should not only bar all travel from Palestinian territories into the US, as well as from Iran and Qatar, but yank all visas of any of those nationals who currently reside in the U.S. and send them home to enjoy the advantages now offered on nightly video displays in their own native countries. The national security team of this administration—gifts from the failed Obama administration that is responsible for much of the current Middle East mess— remains confused and inept. And that’s a charitable assessment. It of course starts at the top. Joe Biden is neither physically nor cognitively up to the task of Commander in Chief in a crisis. He has more or less disappeared other than offering an occasionally brief appearance where he mumbles about standing with Israel and then vanishes again. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken recently deleted a tweet calling for an immediate cease-fire–music to the ears of Hamas and Iran. Why? Does he believe it is moral to allow Hamas to murder 900 Jews, beat their chests about such savagery, and then head home with human trophies to be tortured and executed without a response? Blinken noted that he and the Turkish foreign minister had talks that led to such an absurd statement. And what about Turkey, the erstwhile Obama key to the Middle East?
Its intrusive armed drone was shot down recently in Syria by the US Air Force and remains an unapologetic pro-Hamas partisan. And whether long-term it can remain in NATO—long opposing Sweden’s entry, chronic overflights of the Greek islands in the Aegean, supplier of weapons to Russia, threatening to send missiles into Athens, a security risk anytime it receives US weapons—is a real concern, given it has the largest, non-US army in NATO and hosts a nuclear-armed U.S. base. Blinken also blasted critics who deplored his outreach to Iran, disparaging them as misinforming and misinformed. He is petulant because he knows that the Iranian expectation of an upcoming $6 billion US-driven cash transfer (another sick idea to buy back hostages from a murderous Tehran) gives them in the here and now fungible opportunities to send more cash and arms into the hands of anti-Israeli terrorists. As far as Iran’s role in the Hamas orgy of killing, Blinken also declared that there is no evidence of "anything that shows us that Iran was directly involved in this attack, in planning it or in carrying it out.” No one but you, Secretary Blinken, believes that. When one remembers Blinken’s Palestinian Affairs office in the State Department and its even worse ceasefire tweet, which, like Blinken’s, disappeared without comment, the appointment of the Iranian megaphone Robert Malley (currently under investigation by the FBI) as our point man on the bankrupt Iran Deal, and Blinken’s recent brag about all the hundreds of millions of dollars we have sent to the Palestinians, the picture is one of partisan incompetence. That pattern goes all the way back to the 2021 Chinese humiliation in Anchorage of both Blinken and Jake Sullivan. Or perhaps both were suspect even earlier when we recall it was campaign honcho Blinken who on the eve of the 2020 election apparently thought up the nasty idea of calling on ex-interim CIA director Mike Morell to round up 51 intelligence “authorities” to lie to the American people that the Hunter Biden laptop under FBI wraps was somehow a product of “Russian disinformation” and not authentic (a claim even Hunter Biden could not make).
That gambit was designed to fuel Biden in the upcoming debate and indeed warp the election itself. And it did.
National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan has a similar politicized record, as one of the principles seeding the 2016 Clinton-campaign lie that a mythical Trump server was communicating with the Russians and thus proof of “Russian collusion”. Sullivan, remember, just a week before the Hamas slaughter assured us that "The Middle East region is quieter today than it has been in two decades.” So Hamas kills, while we tweet and delete….
Victor Davis Hanson on X: "They Kill, While Our Government Tweets and Deletes…. If wild reports are true that the inhuman Hamas will execute dozens of civilian hostages, and if it is further accurate that there are rumored Americans among them—and if Americans then are to be executed by Hamas—aside from…" / X (twitter.com)
Maybe-- from some other places. But despite the recent "victories" of Hamas, their main goal is to ensure a judenfrei Middle East. And while they've rcently had a few major sucesses, Israel will strike back-- so they'll be occupied with their main goal-- and they don't exactly believe their Holyland is in Texas or Arizona-- or anywhere in the Western hemisphere!
To them the presence of any non-Muslim gov't in the area is a real shonda- - so I don't see them wanting to leave until they achieve a lasting victory.
I disagree they hate the US as much as they hate Israel.
The latest from Biden's open border:
The United States Border Patrol has arrested thousands of “special interest aliens” from the Middle East trying to illegally cross the U.S.-Mexico border, leaked Customs and Border Protection (CBP) documents show, according to Fox News.
“Special interest aliens” are defined as people from foreign countries that have conditions that promote or protect terrorism, or that may pose a threat to U.S. national security.
From Oct. 2021 to Oct. 2023, border agents apprehended 6,386 nationals from Afghanistan, 3,153 from Egypt, 659 from Iran and 538 from Syria, the leaked data shows.
Additionally, agents encountered 12,624 from Uzbekistan, 30,830 from Turkey, 1,613 from Pakistan, 164 from Lebanon, 185 from Jordan, 123 from Iraq and 15,594 from Mauritania.
Leaked: Thousands of Middle Easterners tried crossing US border (americanmilitarynews.com)
I hate to say it, but I think Biden has unleashed future terror here.
You seem better informed on this than I am, so would you mind giving your thoughts on how Hamas or Iran view US support of Israel? Do you think that matters enough to them to target the US?
If wild reports are true that the inhuman Hamas will execute dozens of civilian hostages,
and if it is further accurate that there are rumored Americans among them—and if Americans then are to be executed by Hamas—aside from…" / X (twitter.com)
At this point its been confirmed that they have American hostages, and for that matter that they murdered several Americans. (And it seems that every day those numbers are growing)
...while the American government sleeps. After all, right now Congress is frozen, is it not?
I have no idea what his powers are. I've only seen movies where American troops have rescued their captive brethren, but then they were just movies.
We try to avoid suicide missions.
No, he'll park a couple aircraft carriers off the coast of Gaza in order to "scare" the Gazans into submission. You can expect that the Gazans will come to the beaches to wave at them and take selfies with the ships in the background.
Which is why movies are usually just fiction.
It is sleeping by choice. Joe Biden never mentioned Iran in his speech yesterday. As a matter of fact, this was the Obama policy of strengthening Iran and its hired guns as a way to pressure Israel to making concessions with the Palestinians. Obama really hated the Israeli election of Netanyahu. You may even recall that he tried to interfere with that election.
I just heard that he has.
Jimmy Carter said he wished that he had sent more. We sometimes expect the impossible from the bravest among us.
I still recall the warning Iran got in Jan 2020:
President Trump has warned the US is "targeting" 52 Iranian sites and will strike "very fast and very hard" if Tehran attacks Americans or US assets.
Trump says US ready to strike 52 Iranian sites if Tehran attacks - BBC News
That is the way it's done, but I doubt Joe Biden is going to do anything of the kind.
Candyass handlers leading a candyass PotUS.
Das Leader is still resting up after the big barbecue on Sunday.
Has anyone told him that 11 Americans have also been murdered?
The first plane load of US ammunition arrived in Israel this morning and there isn't much more the old fart can do with no House Speaker to move more funding around.
Not that he would care.
The American confirmed death list is up to 14 now, and the American hostage list is around 20, maybe more. And yes, Biden said "hostage" yesterday in his paltry 9 minute "speech" ... which is the complete opposite of what Kirby, Jake Sullivan, and Blinken said.
Biden could have easily given yesterday's speech on Sunday before his bbq, because it was overly generalized, never mentioned the $60 BILLION, renewing all of the oil sanctions on Iran that he removed, or even the word "Iran".
Biden can freeze the $6 billion he promised to Iran and cut off aid to the Palestinians.
He can direct the support for Ukraine to Israel.
It hasn't been dispersed yet so what's your real issue?
There isn't any concrete evidence to support this talking point. All we have are the parroted, unsubstantiated words of Biden, KJP, Blinken, Kirby, Sullivan, MSM, and The View gals.
Wow...
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Vic - Kirby just said 17 Americans confirmed "missing", 22 confirmed dead. In another sentence he used the words "missing" and "hostage" interchangeably. He also said that the WH expects these numbers to increase.
And what will Biden do about it? Absolutely nothing? Then he will find someone else to blame (probably will somehow try to blame trum
There are idiots already trying to do that.
The POTUS can authorize something like that without official Congressional approval. He cannot authorize a declaration of war.
Even though there isn't currently a speaker of the House, the chairs of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees are still in place. They would be in the loop on any decisions.
That's not who the carriers are intended to scare.
You already rejected credible sources with nothing other than your feelings to say they aren't. So unless YOU come up with credible citations and/or sources to dispute those given you are wasting everyone's time.
Ah, I think I understand. They're there for PREVENTION.
Exactly that.
Many people are also blaming Iran for supporting Hamas. But there's a more accurate was of describing the situation: The current theocratic Islamist government of Iran is supporting Hamas. But most Iranians don't support the current Iranian government.
There still are a lot of wild animals running loose in our world.
The Eastern world, it is explodin'
Violence flarin', bullets loadin'
You're old enough to kill but not for votin'
You don't believe in war, but what's that gun you're totin'?
I'm pretty sure it will be. Or, even if Israeli is pressured they won't give in. Because this time Hamas has outdone even itself in terms of the number, and extreme barbarism of there actions.
(Hamas is doing things like beheading Jewish babies they've captured , brutal rapes of female prisoners. parading captive in the street (including the elderly and even one captive elderly woman who is mentally ill), murdering young children while their mother is forced to watch etc.
These actions are not exceptions-- rather they are the rule. The sheer brutality is not an exception-- rather it is the rule.