The Jewish settlers who want to build homes in Gaza
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Who wouldn't want a house on the beach? For some on Israel's far-right, desirable beachfront now includes the sands of Gaza.
Just ask Daniella Weiss, 78, the grandmother of Israel's settler movement, who says she already has a list of 500 families ready to move to Gaza immediately.
"I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".
She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked.
Mrs Weiss heads a radical settler organisation called Nachala, or homeland. For decades, she has been kickstarting Jewish settlements in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, on Palestinian land captured by Israel in the 1967 Middle East war.
Some in the settler movement have cherished the dream - or pipedream - of returning to Gaza since 2005, when Israel ordered a unilateral pullout, 21 settlements were dismantled and about 9,000 settlers were evacuated by the army. (Reporting from Gaza at the time, I saw many who were literally dragged out.)
Many settlers saw all this as a betrayal by the state, and a strategic mistake.
Opinion polls suggest that most Israelis oppose resettling Gaza, and it is not government policy, but since the Hamas attacks on 7 October it is being talked about out loud - by some of the loudest and most extreme voices in Israel's government.
Mrs Weiss proudly shows me a map of the West Bank with pink dots indicating Jewish settlements. The dots are scattered all over the map, eating away at land where Palestinians hope - or hoped - to build their state.
There are about 700,000 Jewish settlers in these areas now and settler numbers are rising fast.
The vast majority of the international community considers settlements illegal under international law, including the United Nations Security Council. Israel disputes this.
We meet Daniella at her home in the West Bank settlement of Kedumim, where red-roofed houses are spread over hilltops and valleys. She's in constant motion despite having an arm in plaster.
Her vision for the future of Gaza - now home to 2.3 million Palestinians, many of them starving - is that it will be Jewish.
"Gaza Arabs will not stay in the Gaza Strip," she says. "Who will stay? Jews."
She claims that Palestinians want to leave Gaza and that other countries should take them in - although in a lengthy interview, she rarely uses the word "Palestinian".
"The world is wide," she says. "Africa is big. Canada is big. The world will absorb the people of Gaza. How we do it? We encourage it. Palestinians in Gaza, the good ones, will be enabled. I'm not saying forced, I say enabled because they want to go."
There is no evidence that Palestinians want to leave their homeland - although many may now dream of escaping temporarily, to save their lives. For most Palestinians, there is no way out. The borders are tightly controlled by Israel and Egypt, and no foreign countries have offered refuge.
I put it to her that her comments sound like a plan for ethnic cleansing. She does not deny it.
"You can call it ethnic cleansing. I repeat again, the Arabs do not want, normal Arabs do not want to live in Gaza. If you want to call it cleansing, if you want to call it apartheid, you choose your definition. I choose the way to protect the state of Israel. "
A few days later, Daniella Weiss is selling the idea of a return to Gaza over cake and popcorn at a small gathering, hosted by another settler in their living room.
She has a projector, showing a new map of Gaza, complete with settlements, and leaflets entitled "Go back to Gaza".
"People are asking me what the odds are this will happen?" she says.
"What were the odds back then when I came to these dark mountains and made it into this heaven?"
The handful in attendance seem already convinced. "I want to go back immediately," says Sarah Manella. "When they call me, I will go back to Gush Katif [the former Israeli settlement bloc in Gaza]."
What about the people who live there, we ask.
"The area is empty now, "she replies. "Now you don't need to think where to put the settlement, you only need to come back and put a new settlement."
Gaza is far from empty, but much of it has been erased after almost six months of relentless Israeli bombardment.
It is the "greatest open-air graveyard" in the world, in the words of the EU's foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell.
More than 32,000 Palestinians have been killed, according to the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza, most of them women and children. The World Health Organization regards the ministry's data as credible.
For some in the Israeli cabinet, the Palestinian territory - now drenched in blood - is ripe for resettlement. That includes Israel's hard-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir - a settler himself.
In late January, he made his way through a packed conference hall, slowed by embraces and handshakes. He was among friends - about 1,000 ultranationalists pushing for a return to Gaza at the event entitled Settlement Brings Security.
Mr Ben Gvir, who favours "encouraging emigration", was among a dozen cabinet ministers in attendance.
"It's time to go back home," he said from the stage, to loud applause. "It's time to return to the land of Israel. If we don't want another 7 October, we need to return home and control the land."
In the shade of a sprawling tree, Yehuda Shimon is playing with his two young sons, who are in hammocks, hanging from the branches.
He has raised 10 children here in a settler outpost in the West Bank called Havat Gilad, or Gilad's Farm, near the Palestinian city of Nablus.
All around him there are Palestinian villages, the nearest 500m away. There is no contact between them, he says.
Shimon has lived in Gaza in the past and claims a God-given right to return.
"We must do it. It's part of Israel area," he says. "This is the land that God gave us, and you couldn't go to God and tell him, 'OK you gave me, and I gave to other people.' No. I believe in the end we will go back to Gaza."
LINK TO SEEDED ARTICLE: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-jewish-settlers-who-want-to-build-homes-in-gaza/ar-BB1ksABo?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=d39ebb7a6fcb484e837e3fdd778590de&ei=23
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This should not be surprising to anyone who has followed the war/crisis. The Netanyahu government supports it and they have already started the ''Ethnic Cleansing'' in the West Bank.
Netanyahu has refused to allow aid into Gaza and will not stop the attacks, so we have the US building a pier in Gaza to bring in ships with supplies and on the other hand we are supplying Israel with weapons/backing and financial aid. Does anyone see the irony in this macabre play?
I pretty much know how most members feel and or side with but I have a question for you support the continuing bombardment of Gaza and the cutting of supplies. Have any of you seen a 5 or 10-year-old with no legs, no arms, covered in burns with little to no medical aid so bewildered that they have no idea where they are their brains addled by the constant bombing? Sadly, I have it's not pretty at all and once you see it you cannot unsee it. Yes, I also know what Hamas did to Israeli children, and in no way on earth am I cutting them any excuse, they deserve to die, that is not a question in my mind.
The question in my mind is are babies, 5 year old 10 year old my enemy? No not in Gaza or Vietnam they are not, yet the retribution is taking their lives as well as innocent adults, guilty adults, and terrorists.
Having made some trips to Israel, Jordan and Lebanon over the years I have a bit of a history with the area and people, and before anyone says or insinuates that I support Hamas as has been done in the past, don't. You have no idea of my experience with the people or the area.
This is something that I do not quite understand completely .. how can Netanyahu refuse aid when Egypt controls their own border gate into Gaza?
I believe that this is how it is working. Some aid has come through that area but the danger to the drivers of the trucks bringing it is high and just yesterday I read where the Gaza Police have been targeted by Israel and have stopped trying to protect the convoys. I cannot verify any of that except for the fact it was in news reports, Colour.
Here is a link to a good article on that situation.
Is there anyone in the world who WOULDN'T want to have a beachfront home on a beautiful Mediterranean beach, no matter WHERE it was? Or are we going back to the days I remember as a kid when I saw a sign on a ski resort near where I lived that said "NO DOGS OR JEWS ALLOWED", which was the rule at the time for all the private surrounding golf courses that were a little quieter about their method of guaranteeing exclusiveness, causing the Jewish community to create its own golf course. Israel has citizens of all religions, does it not? No religion has been forbidden, but Jews have to be careful where they go or want to live. Nothing wrong with that, eh?
I don't know, are we? Of course that has never happened to Indians, they have been free to roam far and wide. Oh wait, hung from trees, hunted down like vermin, rewards for our scalps or heads the amount based on if the head or scalp was from a male, female or child. Forced onto reservations left to starve to death. Oh, fucking yeah those were the good old days, eh Buzz? Hey, you know at one time you were living on stolen land, no problem with that either.
Israel has citizens of all religions, does it not?
Yes, there are more religions than Judaism in Israel. The vast majority is Jewish.
If you're speaking of the West Bank and Gaza then if moving into the area and forcing out the current peoples (Palestinians) that live there, it's called to be nice, ''Ethnic Cleansing'' and fuck no you don't have the right to do that.
If the topic were about Native Americans I would have talked about Native Americans but I thought the topic was about where Jews live and where they have a right to be or not a right to be and I'm careful to stay on topic. You know damn well I despise the Haradim, the ultra-Orthodox (in fact extremists of EVERY religion) and disagree with them forcing others to move out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem if that has been their lawful residence. But why can't you or I live on the beach in Gaza if we obtained the property legally? Who said that those who want to live there are going to be squatters only?
If, as you did throw out a personal experience regarding Jews or being Jewish than expect one in return that you for the Jewish people are the only ones to suffer at the hands of others. It's not true there has been horrible suffering at the hands of other of many people who survived and are still here.
The article is crystal clear, Buzz the person being interviewed stated in no uncertain terms that they will drive the Palestinians out of Gaza and keep it for Israel. That in polite company is called ''Ethnic Cleansing''.
I don't have a crystal ball, and time will tell what is going to happen. I'm sure there are lots of predictions out there.
Sure, some Israelis would like to own beachfront property--again-- in Gaza. But what people in this discussion are forgetting is that they had that. Israel had occupied Gaza-- and was totally in control.(One reason that this was easier for them that you might think was that Gazans were much better off uder Israeli occupation then they were before Israeli occupation!).
So what happened? Well many Israelis who owned property their wanted to keep it. But the government decided to withdraw. So Israel left Gaza-- completely!
And those Israelis who owned property there and opposed gov't policy (complete withdrawal) were forced out-- by the Israeli government!
I sometimes find it difficult to participate in these discussions with people who, while well meaning-- are unfamiliar with the facts,
Here's one of the best sites that explains what happened-- I highly recommend everyone whp wants to know the actual facts read it!
(And remember-- whatever some people want-- its meaningless unless the government acts).
Exodus From Gaza
The forcible evacuation of August 2005
I'm not sure of the people that don't know the facts but the un occupation of Gaza by Israel seems to be quite well known, Krish.
If people like this woman prevail, Israel wlll be faced with terrorism forever.
Yes, that is true and just with what they are doing in the West Bank is going to come back to bite them in the ass.
This women is supported by the Netanyahu government, that is the part that is really scary.
Then why doesnt she go ?
Interestingly enough, back in the late 1800's and early 1900 at a meeting of the World Jewish Congress Africa was on the agenda as an area to start the new country of Israel. The Brits were pushing it and the land was picked out, of course, it meant uprooting the native Africans who had lived there for thousands of years, but hell why not?
They didn't prevail in 2005 (see article linked to in comment # 1. 2. 5. above).
They are prevailing currently in the West Bank.
Keep the Jews out of Gaza! Racial segregation forever!
Racial segregation has nothing to do with it.
Gaza is not Israeli land. Never has been never will be.
The settlers that want to take over Gaza have no interest in living in peace with the Palestinians. They are going to take the prime land; and once they get a toehold attack Palestinians to force them off more land- with the IDF protecting them every step of the way. Just like they are doing in the West Bank.
Their only goal is to force the Palestinians out of Israel, West Bank, and Gaza.
That's an assumption on your part.
When Israel had occupied Gaza the Gazans were better off than people living in most of the neighbouring Arab states.
Why? Because they had well paying jobs under Israeli rule. At the time the Israelis wanted to keep up a high standard of living-- it was a win-win.
How many Jews were allowed to live in Gaza after the Palestinians took over? How many live in Jordan? What surrounding country allows Jews to live there peacefully? Why aren’t Arab states held to the same standard Israel is?
Did you read the own article you seeded?
These are the same radical settlers that are moving into the West Bank. How are they treating the West Bank Palestinians? Are they making their lives better?
What makes you think they will suddenly change their ways in Gaza?
I happen to know a very large Palestinian family that has members in the West Bank; and formerly Gaza. Think Gazans liked living under Israeli rule? That is what it was. Stop sugar coating what things were like in Gaza under Israeli rule. There is a reason that Gazans rejoiced when Israel forcefully removed their settlers.
Some Gazans had better lives working for Jewish settlements- why was that? The settlements were financed by Israel and indirectly the US.
Kids still threw stones at IDF forces and were killed. There were still IDF raids and arrests of any Palestinian male that was deemed a threat by Israel. Yes, I know when Hamas took over things really went to shit. Remember who backed Hamas? Good old Bibi- he didn't want a unified people under secular PA rule.
Palestinians are truly fucked- they have no one looking out for them. That includes Hamas, Hezbollah, PA, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel, and the US.
I wish the US would stop interfering in the ME completely except where are best interests are at stake. Keeping Iran in check- which Brandon has completely fucked up would be top priority. As for the rest fuck them. They don't need out money- which would be far better served staying in the US.
How many Jews were willing to live under Palestinian rule?
Israel didn't really give them a chance- the forcefully withdrew the settlers- knowing damn well the settlers wouldn't just keep to themselves if they stayed.
As for standards- Israel is the only "democracy" in the ME. It should be held to a higher standard- especially since year in year out they are the number #1 country receiving US financial and military aid. (Unless we are involved in something stupid like Afghanistan or Ukraine).
A pox on all of them. We should be keeping our money at home. We can sell them weapons; but none of this BS where we send them US taxpayer dollars to so they can buy US weapons.
You mean 'From the river to the sea". That's strange. I don't think it's Jews who are chanting that.
I wonder why. Surely there must be a reason. But they DO have UNRWA looking after them, teaching them to hate Israel and Jews, hiding their weapons in mosques and hospitals and schools.
More of your nonsense, Sean. If Israel pushed the Palestinians out of Gaza you'll also have racial segregation forever. Did that occur to you or not?
Sean is obsessed with race.
Certainly seems like a SOS moment.
Jews and Palestinians lived together in Gaza when it Israel controlled it, how many Jews were allowed to live their when they weren’t?
Jews were removed by their own government in 2005. Are you not aware of that?
lol. You are literally arguing to keep Jews out of Gaza and you think I’m obsessed with race, I think Jews should be able to live in Gaza and Arabs in Israel. Your demands to keep Jews out of Gaza makes even the apartheid regime in South Africa seem tolerant.
The settlements were destroyed in the name of peace with a racist state. How’d that work? Muslims live openly in Israel. Why can’t Jews live in Gaza?
Because the Israeli government forced them out in 2005. You should know that, Sean.
You think Muslims have the same rights as Jews living in Israel?
The racism cuts both ways; unfortunately many are too blind to see it.
Yes, Israel disputes it and so do I. Throughout history lands conquered from an attacking nation by a nation defending itself in a war started by the attacker has been considered the lands gained by the defending nation, unless the defending nation happens to be Jewish.
That's a pretty broad statement and not correct at all. If that were true the US would have taken Germany/Italy/Turkey/Japan/Romania/ etc etc.
Oh, you mean ONLY the U.S.A. won the war? Being a Canadian who lost a cousin who was a Royal Canadian Air Force navigator in a bomber that was shot down over Europe in that war I dispute that. Maybe the allies didn't want to assume those lands, maybe had reasons not to, or maybe the terms of surrender required otherwise.
If the US had not entered the war, the outcome would have been much different. I never disputed anything the allies did or the losses that they were subjected to. Many Americans and allies lost their husbands, sons, brothers, sisters, and cousins. Canada was no different than any other country with the exception that there were no battles fought on Canadian land.
The fact remains that we did not take over the vanquished countries, that is a fact. So you're historical claim is incorrect.
Don't slough off the fact that the USA was NOT ALONE in winning that war whether or not it might have been lost had they not been there so the USA did not gain exclusive rights if they had rights. The fact that nobody took possession away from the losers DOES NOT LOGICALLY MEAN they might not have had that right save for the reasons I gave in my previous comment IF they were considered the defending nation.
I didn't slough off anything, what I said was quite clear. We didn't, neither did any other ally except Russia. That is the historical fact.
Kavika-- are you aware of the fact that at the end of WWII_- Germany was..OCCUPIED!
The Germans lost the war--so they did not have self-rule!!!!
The entirety of Germany was occupied and administered by the Allies of World War II from the Berlin Declaration on 5 June 1945 to the establishment of West Germany on 23 May 1949.
Unlike occupied Japan, Germany was stripped of its sovereignty and former state: after Nazi Germany surrendered on 8 May 1945, four countries representing the Allies (the United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, and France) asserted joint authority and sovereignty through the Allied Control Council (ACC).
At first, Allied-occupied Germany was defined as all territories of Germany before the 1938 Nazi annexation of Austria; the Potsdam Agreement on 2 August 1945 defined the new eastern German border by giving Poland and the Soviet Union all regions of Germany east of the Oder–Neisse line (eastern parts of Pomerania, Neumark, Posen-West Prussia, East-Prussia and most of Silesia) . . .
. . . and divided the remaining "Germany as a whole" into four occupation zones, each administered by one of the Allies.[1]
In other words, the defending nations in a war obtained sovereignty over lands previously part of the aggressor nation. EXACTLY what I am saying about Israel obtaining sovereignty over the Golan Heights and the West Bank which they conquered fighting a defensive war, but naturally the world can't allow JEWS that privilege.
See my comment 4.1.4
I'm well aware of that and the four zones and all that went with it. Were you there when we were an occupying force? it was nothing quite like you expect from a victor. We, nor our allies set up shop and took Germany as part of the US/England/France. That is not what Israel is planning as can be seen in the West Bank. And there is one of the huge differences, Krish.