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All the Ways Car Dependency Is Wrecking Us

  

Category:  Environment/Climate

Via:  outis  •  4 months ago  •  35 comments

By:   Ray Delahanty

All the Ways Car Dependency Is Wrecking Us



By popular demand -- a comprehensive review of all the ways car dependency destroys our communities, our health, and our planet. With gratuitous commentary by your host!



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Let's be clear: this is CityNerd . It's a site about CITIES

Wyoming and Montana and Idaho are wonderful places, but they aren't what I'd call "urban". So please, please, please don't give counter-examples that are totally irrelevant. Thank you.


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



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Outis
Freshman Principal
1  seeder  Outis    4 months ago

"What's so terrible about cars??"

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Outis @1    4 months ago

Nothing is terrible about cars as far as I know, but I need one to get around town. So do millions upon millions of other people worldwide.

I have a 2001 Toyota Carolla with about 135,000 miles on it and long ago paid for. I have only the insurance required by state law. I have kept it maintained and it still runs very well and uses little oil. It's lost its luster and shine though.

So what's your mode of transport? Do you have a car, and what kind is it?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    4 months ago

if you're in a big city, for the most part you can get around on public transportation.

or take a cab/uber

out in the suburbs or rural areas that is much more problematic

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1.2  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    4 months ago

I live within a couple miles of downtown Denver; except I never go there. I'm unarmed and have to lug around an oxygen tank thanks to Covid. So my trusty Toyota is essential.

Public transportation is unreliable and mostly unavailable in Denver, which is why most people drive cars here, and in other large cities in the US and all over the world.

Face it, fossil fueled cars and trucks are a necessity to people and their way of life and not going away anytime soon.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.1.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.2    4 months ago
I'm unarmed and have to lug around an oxygen tank thanks to Covid.

Sorry to learn that, Greg. Is your blood oxygen level slowly improving over time?

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
1.1.4  seeder  Outis  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    4 months ago
Do you have a car, and what kind is it?

I'd rather discuss the video.

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
1.1.5  seeder  Outis  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.2    4 months ago
Face it, fossil fueled cars and trucks are a necessity

Why do you insist on "fossil fueled"? The average American's daily drive is 20-30 miles. That's easily managed, even with a "short-range" EV. Is your daily drive so much more?

I agree that cars are (sadly) necessary because we've dug ourselves into a car-centric mess. But "cars are necessary" no longer means "gasoline is necessary".

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
1.1.6  Gazoo  replied to  Outis @1.1.5    4 months ago

The day one can pull into one of the many, many, recharging stations in the country, plug in and a few minutes later be fully recharged and on their way is the day electric vehicles will be start to be accepted by the masses, until then ev proponents can pout and cry all they want, it’s not gonna happen. And even when that time comes it will be a massive mistake to rely on china for our transportation needs. Plus, there are other other major hurdles to overcome that the powers that be don’t seem to ever address.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
1.1.7  Gazoo  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    4 months ago

a 2001 Toyota Carolla with about 135,000 miles on it and long ago paid for. I have only the insurance required by state law. I have kept it maintained and it still runs very well and uses little oil.”

Keep it maintained and you’ve got a bullet proof vehicle that will give you many more miles of economical trouble free driving

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1.8  Greg Jones  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.3    4 months ago

Staying about the same. I had some COPD to begin with probably caused by two decades of smoking when I was way younger.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1.9  Greg Jones  replied to  Outis @1.1.5    4 months ago

I don't think you get it about transportation realities in the real world, not to mention cost/benefit ratio's.

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
1.1.10  seeder  Outis  replied to  Gazoo @1.1.6    4 months ago

So basically... you want nothing to do with EVs because... you want nothing to do with EVs.

OK.

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
1.1.11  seeder  Outis  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.9    4 months ago
I don't think you get it

That's always a possibility. There are many, many things in this universe that I don't get.

So I want to learn. Could you be more precise about what I don't understand?

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
1.1.12  Gazoo  replied to  Outis @1.1.10    4 months ago

I said nothing of the sort, so knock that shit off right now.

I did say i wouldn’t want one because the tech and infrastructure to support one is not there yet. Plus, there are still major hurdles to overcome that ev proponents seem unwilling to discuss.

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
1.1.13  seeder  Outis  replied to  Gazoo @1.1.12    4 months ago

You gave no reason for refusing EVs... while refusing them absolutely.

Same same.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
1.1.14  Gazoo  replied to  Outis @1.1.13    4 months ago

Then you need to read the post again.

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
1.1.15  seeder  Outis  replied to  Gazoo @1.1.14    4 months ago

Say without saying... it's an art.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
1.1.16  Gazoo  replied to  Outis @1.1.15    4 months ago

What do you think this means?

The day one can pull into one of the many, many, recharging stations in the country, plug in and a few minutes later be fully recharged and on their way is the day electric vehicles will be start to be accepted by the masses,”

it should be extremely easy to comprehend but apparently not. It means the current charging infrastructure is extremely inadequate and current charge times are way to long.

what do you think this means.

And even when that time comes it will be a massive mistake to rely on china for our transportation needs.”

does this really need to be explained?

 Plus, there are other other major hurdles to overcome that the powers that be don’t seem to ever address.”

this is about uncomfortable truths ev proponents don’t like to discuss, such as battery performance in temperature extremes. Battery degradation caused by extreme temps and charging habits (charging the battery more than 80 - 90% or letting the charge dip below 10 - 20%. So an owner that is concerned about the health of the very expensive battery of his ev should only use 60 - 80% of the battery. That’s great for range. Charging infrastructure is extremely inadequate for widespread adoption. I have not seen any talk about upgrading the grid, or adding power plants. California, the rolling blackout state is taking nuke plants offline, replacing them with nothing. In fact, last summer california was telling ev owners to not charge their ev’s, lol. That’s ironic. How about the toxic waste and pollution created by mining for the minerals needed to make ev batteries? How about the extra wear ev’s cause to tires, creating more toxic pollution? Ev’s also cause more damage to roads and bridges because of their extra weight. I’m not saying these things cannot be overcome, but it will take time. But hey, let’s pretend these problems don’t exist.

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
1.1.17  seeder  Outis  replied to  Gazoo @1.1.16    4 months ago

Setting inappropriate constraints makes unreasonable refusal seem reasonable.

"I'll buy one of these new horseless carriages when every pharmacy has an outdoor parafin stand!"

Your arguments all come down to a visceral, irrational refusal. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.18  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    4 months ago

Since I have no car, that is exactly how I get around the city - elevated subway, bus, taxi or Uber are no more than a 5 minute walk, and I have no need to go any farther.  If I wanted to travel to another city the super-fast (up to 350 kph) trains on the world's greatest track network in the world are extremely comfortable.  

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
1.1.19  Gazoo  replied to  Outis @1.1.17    4 months ago

Of course, not wanting the inconveniences that go along with ev’s is so inappropriate. Give me a f’ing break.

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
1.1.20  seeder  Outis  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.18    4 months ago

The planet burning is a rather larger inconvenience.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.21  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Outis @1.1.20    4 months ago

Didn't you mean that to be a reply to Gazoo rather than me?  I don't even have a car to contribute to greenhouse gases. 

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
1.1.22  Gazoo  replied to  Outis @1.1.20    4 months ago

Then ev companies better put technology on a fast track because the masses are not willing to give up their ice powered vehicle for an ev using current technology and infrastructure that cannot support mass adoption of ev’s.  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
1.1.23  charger 383  replied to  Outis @1.1.20    4 months ago

Overpopulation not cars is the problem, 

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
1.1.24  seeder  Outis  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.21    4 months ago

Oooops...   jrSmiley_19_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
1.1.25  seeder  Outis  replied to  Gazoo @1.1.22    4 months ago

Not quite. Consumers are being flooded by Big Oil's anti-EV propaganda.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2  Sparty On    4 months ago

Saying that most people only drive 20-30 miles a day is probably true, until it is not.    I’m on the tail end of a trip to Florida to view my Tigers for spring training.    Now in KC to tick Kaufman Stadium off my bucket list of visiting all major league ballparks before I croak.    We are barking on 4000 miles over about three weeks

That trip is basically impossible in a EV without adding massive time and planning to this trip.    We averaged 500-600 miles a day for three days to get there from Michigan.   That would easily double or triple in time in an EV.    That’s both ways.   The inconvenience at play here is palpable and never discussed by the EV crowd.    The other thing that is ignored are conditions.   Ratings for EV’s are based on optimum conditions.    Range is degraded in colder weather due to decreased battery efficiency related to lower temperatures and heater use.

EV’s are a long way from practical in this regard.    Hybrids are the answer.

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
2.1  seeder  Outis  replied to  Sparty On @2    4 months ago

How often do you make this kind of trip? 

If you accept that daily driving is 20-30 miles, then range is significant only for long trips. There is are now lots of EVs that can do 300 miles on a charge, charge in well under half an hour. They would require less than an hour more than an ICE car on your trip.

We're no longer in the 1980s.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Outis @2.1    4 months ago

Trips over 20-30 miles per day are plentiful and 300 miles per charge assumes optimum conditions.    You’ve discounted my comment about performance degradation due to conditions.    Then charging stations need to be located and are no where close to as plentiful as gas stations.    It’s problematic at best.

You’ve consumed too much cool-aid.     We ain’t there yet.    Nope.    Not even in 2024.    No matter what that article told you.

 
 
 
Outis
Freshman Principal
2.1.2  seeder  Outis  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.1    4 months ago
Trips over 20-30 miles per day are plentiful 

OK. What's your daily drive? A fast home charger will give you 200 miles overnight. Do you need more than that?

Modern EVs have sophisticated battery management, so they do not need "optimum conditions".

You're out of date.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.3  Sparty On  replied to  Outis @2.1.2    4 months ago

Nah, I’m just properly informed.    You’d be wise to be so as well as it appears that you are not.

But hey, if you’re happy with your choices, I’m happy for you.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2.2  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Sparty On @2    4 months ago
Saying that most people only drive 20-30 miles a day is probably true, until it is not.

Very true , using that number , thats one trip to town for a beer run for me , even if I live in an outlier state , and thats if i only make one trip per day ,  Some days i make one , some a lot more, some days i make none ,  Averages really dont mean much to most people .

One of the things i factor in is time ,  most folks look at that as well ,  It was posted someone can get a 200 mile range charge over night , ok i can see that , but i can get that 200 mile range currently in less than 5 mins , so it comes down to a convenience factor , with a slight side of instant gratification of not having to wait .

Thats IF the infrastructure is available  in all places one is traveling , 

 
 
 
bccrane
Freshman Silent
2.3  bccrane  replied to  Sparty On @2    4 months ago
most people only drive 20-30 miles a day is probably true, until it is not.

This reminds me of the study done many years ago that found that the majority of traffic accidents happened within 25 miles of home, so the immediate response was that if you took a long trip it was more likely that when you were almost home that is when you were more likely to have an accident.  What the study didn't elaborate on was that most people don't drive more than 25 miles from home and that is why it was more likely for accidents to happen near home.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
3  Mark in Wyoming     4 months ago

I think, for me , and I think some think the same way, personally I will just wait, and let others do the experimentation on the subject and see how it works.

Now if EV is such a benefit to built up urban areas as this article is about, we shall see.

 
 

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