Air Force airman killed by Florida deputies who were at wrong apartment, attorney says
Category: News & Politics
Via: perrie-halpern • 7 months ago • 243 commentsBy: Phil Helsel and John Filippelli
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
An Air Force airman who was fatally shot at his Okaloosa County, Florida, apartment Friday was killed by a deputy after law enforcement burst into the wrong home, civil rights attorney Ben Crump said Wednesday.
A woman said that she was on a FaceTime video call with Senior Airman Roger Fortson, 23, when he was killed and that he was alone and there was no disturbance, which law enforcement said was the reason for the call, Crump said.
The Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office said that Friday afternoon, "our deputy responded to a call of a disturbance in progress where he encountered an armed man," and the deputy shot him.
According to the woman on the FaceTime call, whom Crump did not identify, Fortson heard a knock at his door, asked "Who is it?" got no response and could not see anyone through the peephole, Crump said in a statement.
There was a second, aggressive knock, Crump said, citing the woman's account.
"Concerned, he did what any other law-abiding citizen would do and retrieved his legally-owned gun, but as he was walking back to the living room, police burst through the door. When they saw the gun, they shot Roger six times," Crump said in the statement.
"The witness has said that she saw Roger on the ground stating, 'I can't breathe,' after he was shot," Crump said. "She has also said the police were in the wrong apartment as there was no disturbance in the apartment and he was alone."
A sheriff's spokesperson Friday night did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the claim that police were at the wrong apartment.
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement said it is investigating the shooting at the request of the sheriff's department. It did not provide any additional information, citing the active investigation.
The state attorney's office is also conducting an independent review, the sheriff's office said.
Sheriff Eric Aden said in a statement that "all of us at the Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office are saddened about the fatal officer involved shooting over the weekend."
"At this time, we humbly ask for our community's patience as we work to understand the facts that resulted in this tragic event," he said.
Hurlburt Field, the Air Force base where Fortson was assigned, said in a statement that Fortson entered active duty on Nov. 19, 2019. He was assigned to the 4th Special Operations Squadron.
"The 1st Special Operations Wing's priorities are providing casualty affairs service to the family, supporting the squadron during this tragic time, and ensuring resources are available for all who are impacted," the base said.
Okaloosa County is in the Florida Panhandle, east of Pensacola.
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Another complete travesty.
Awaiting the deplorable victim blaming.
And the never-ending solicitation calls for donations to law-enforcement benevolent funds !
see below
The police department states that it was NOT the wrong apartment. Time will tell hopefully.
The truly damning bit, if you've seen it, is the bodycam footage showing the victim with a gun, but not pointing it or otherwise making threatening gestures. Police officer saw the gun and over reacted. Victim had every right to own and possess the gun on his own property, and he was not menacing the officer or anyone else with it.
What a weasely way to avoid saying "We're sorry our officer shot an innocent man."
The also weasely way to say - don't get angry at our incompetence as sort out how we can get away with it.
incidents like this just lead to more cops getting shot...
And more improperly trained citizens getting shot
Payback?
I didn't renew my ccw years ago, just in case a fascist got elected POTUS...
payback for what? I have active LE in my family. the bell curve of competency applies to all jobs and professions. teachers, lawyers, cops, military service members ...
And you think that somehow protects you from what you fear?
Hilarious!
You tell me, I’m trying to understand you comment 2.2 by asking a question.
I don't fear anything.
Badass man! Really badass!
Wrong apartment, wrong time and wrong color.
It is irresponsible comments like that without any facts that only makes things worse. I suppose Al Sharpton's plane is already fueling up.
Thank you for your input on this shooting, as far as facts go black men are killed at a high rate by LEO so it seems that there are facts involved the only race killed by LEOs at a higher are Native Americans and being a NA I am familiar with those facts and my experience is much different then yours in this type of LEO situation, I take anything that the PD states with a jaundiced view, you know from experience.
I don't know how my comment would make it worse since the airman is dead. Perhaps you should take a look at your own comment re Sharpton.
Yep which is a much more complicated statistic than some might like to admit. For example. Black men are statistically more prone to be involved in activities which brings contact with LEO’s than say white men.
No doubt there is a component of racism there but it’s far from the main cause in my opinion.
Yes, statistics can be complicated to get to the root of why with blacks and NAs they are far more likely to be killed by LEO than whites. That last part is something that many non-minorities do not want to discuss. The black or red experience in dealing with LEO cannot be duplicated by whites, it's unique to itself and drags hundreds of years of history with it.
So there may be factors such as fear of the black or redman mixed with bigotry or racism and the natural reaction of self-preservation by the LEOs that come into play and in some instances, the minority is simply guilty of a crime.
FYI, Benjamin Crump is already on the case. And for further clarity, the man being shot six times (until he was assuredly dead or . . . 'harmless') is the problem here. The fact that he is Black is secondary. The fact that a civil rights attorney has been brought/called in is owing to it being a violation of civil rights to enter the wrong apartment and shooting an otherwise innocent man.
And that makes it the case in this specific instance? Like I said that is irresponsible.
It all still seems to come down to did the police identify them as such.
In your opinion, read and post my whole comment and why would it be irresponsible since history does support it and would not the police statement be irresponsible as well if they went to the wrong address or did not id themselves or are they granted a special dispensation?
There is fear of people whom one chooses to disassociate oneself with or allow 'mystery' to exist concerning. That is, we have too many law enforcement officers who do not know enough about the citizenry they serve-such that they end up thinking that by far and large what can be known about 'others' is what they see manifested on television. Ignoring the obvious that television media leads with stories "that bleed." As in, "if it bleeds; it leads."
Negative news sells more than positive news.
When law enforcement officers (LEO) do not put themselves in situations to wholly better understand the citizens they serve. . .they invariably are anxious—expect the worst.
This is why it makes no sense to me that DEI training is being demonized by conservatives. Do they want a better community or just more of this 'insanity' of doing the same thing over and over again with mere dreams of getting different results.
DEI is a waste of time, money, and resources.
See comment 8
Identity is obvious, once the man's bare skin was looked up. It is a fact hard to hide and easy to discern on sight! What is problematic is something that occurs because people don't value 'others' they have no positive association concerning. That is, there are plenty of Youtube examples of police overreacting with minorities (because they are so definitionally and from observation) and (police) being warm to Whites because of 'close' relationships as themselves. And yes, data has shown that minorities can 'police' themselves and make snap judgements about themselves 'faster' than they would about an unknow white.
Two contrasting cases in point:
Police officer shoots unarmed Black man at South Carolina gas station: raw video
Police Shoot Black Guy With Sword – But Not White Guy With Gun *
* The sword is 'bonus' to the point being made in the two contrast videos of Black man shot with no gun and White man talked down with gun for 40 minutes.
See 3.1.6
First guy reached into vehicle for??? The others had what appeared to be real weapons and were probably brandishing them. Video is misleading
That is bull, unhelpful, and non-explanatory.
Not sure why that 'explanation' is helpful. Please elaborate more.
Do Black LEOs shoot unnecessarily at a lower rate than white LEOs?
The explanation is looking for an excuse to ignore civil rights. The first guy was asked for his license. . . granting him permission to retrieve it from where it 'rests' - inside the car. Thus, it was not a provocation. . . and, so the officer should have been prepared and observant of what would be DEFINITELY in his hand once he returned from the retrieval. The relevant other is not the sword wielding individual (ignore him for our purposes), and focus on the separate incident involving a white man holding a gun and pointing in outward at different times. . . and how he is being talked down and not commanded - it's relative-speaking handling with "kid-gloves."
The difference in techniques are clear: White officers-especially male officers, are familiar when dealing with expectations from people like themselves' in general.
My advice is to not overthink it.
Do your own research on that and share it. The point of this exercise as it stands is the black and red experiences in the news and being captured on video. Moreover, its exacerbation because many who police are non-participatory in/with/through any relationship with the 'others' which they serve. For example, if a black officer is unfamiliar with the 'norms' of a red man's cultural/tribal behaviors it is open and 'ripe' for miscommunication of intent or an action resulting in injury or deadly consequences. There needs to be some involvement or agreement (before contact) with 'service' communities by officers who have the authority and power to arrest, injury, or legally kill those whom they are expected to protect.
That may be the point of this exercise but you made a different point on DEI of which I wanted you to elaborate.
There are numerous native Indian tribes. are the 'norms' the same across them, the same for those on and off reservations?
Do you have a template in mind, what are the essential agreements?
"Overall, officer demographics such as sex and experience were not related to racial disparities in fatal shootings. Although officer race was related to racial disparities, the fact that Black and Hispanic civilians were more likely to be shot by same-race officers was largely explained by similarities between officer and county demographics. Because racial disparities in FOIS do not vary based on officer race, hiring more diverse officers may not reduce racial disparities in FOIS. This is not to say that increasing officer diversity is without merit, as increasing officer diversity may broaden understanding of diverse communities and increase trust in law enforcement. However, these data suggest that increasing racial diversity would not meaningfully reduce racial disparity in fatal shootings (32)."
Do the research and/or ask "AI" for your answers. It's free in some cases. Experience is being shared with you as it is; don't want it—research it yourself.
Next, check common-sense! And, summarize.
I included their summary.
You advocated for DEI in LEO apparently without any research.
you forgot "true".
I advocated for commonsense primarily too.
Prove it. Do more than just your typical dark rhetoric.
The study that I cited doesn’t support your ‘common sense’ as things aren’t always what they seem.
You can continue with your alternative discussion. . . I am not interested. Senior Airman Roger Fortson, 23, is essentially dead and his family is mourning, because trained law enforcement can't double-check, triple-check, and CONFIRM the address to which they are called for checking; and, once they enter the apartment and apparently see a gun they can't 'help' but shoot him (even though in our gun culture it is a conservative's dream to be able to defend himself/herself) and use no other control guideline for stopping besides he is not moving anymore.
Commonsense dictates that there should be solutions to this type of thing repeating: 1. Wrong house. 2. Disarming a resident safely. 3. Taking ownership for shooting the wrong guy 6 times. . . until he collapses from the 'stress' of the bullets or dies. Then, 'discovery' that the innocent have been wronged (victimized).
(May the powers that be save 'us' from becoming just another damn statistics.)
Your explanation ( 3.1.21 ) is not what it seems it turns out:
Retraction for Johnson et al., Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings
Who knows what you think that is.
That’s probably true regardless of the LEO’s color.
I don’t disagree. If they have an officer ride program, you should consider signing up for it or doing some volunteer work with you local LEO.
And you should as well. . . taking commonsense along with on the program. Moreover, I suggest trying to find some empathy for and with injured, dying, and dead innocent civilians would be useful too.
It’s not my explanation. Perhaps you can find a better study if you are really concerned.
Perhaps, you should just STOP at this point. It's not helping to strengthen discussion or your proposed point.
no, YOU prove it!
it's another failed social experiment.
Failed social experiment. Let's read your data on that.
Perhaps, but I haven’t.
I didn’t propose a point. You (in 3.1.8 ) wrote, “This is why it makes no sense to me that DEI training is being demonized by conservatives”.
I inferred from that that you felt that Black officers were less likely than white officers to shoot to kill needlessly. I then asked you about that. You didn’t answer that question or correct my mistake inference.
You asked my to do my own research, and so I did a quick search, perhaps not the best study but the only one I saw.
As I reflect up our exchanges on this thread, I know see some points. I try to be data driven on important topics and not depend on ‘common sense’. Perhaps there isn’t good data and we should demand that police agencies record and make available good data so informed and prioritized recommendations can be made.
As to strengthening a discussion, you seldom care to do that.
What data are you reading?
“Amid growing legal, social and political backlash, American businesses, industry groups and employment professionals are quietly scrubbing DEI from public view — though not necessarily abandoning its practice . As they rebrand programs and hot-button acronyms, they’re reassessing decades-old anti-discrimination strategies and rewriting policies that once emphasized race and gender to prioritize inclusion for all.”
The only thing worth remarking on in that spiel is this: I try to be data driven on important topics and not depend on ‘common sense’.
1. Find data that does not have a banner reading 'retraction' attached as a header.
2. Common-sense is something we all can get behind, because we all have it more or less to some degrees.
3. Data has a proper use in every discussion where it is needed. But, so does other considerations which are not established by data. (For instance, points about matters and issues that have no place in grids, graphs, and charts.)
What data have you found supporting your assertion?
The investigation in the case has barely begun, there is little evidence to apply common sense to.
Are LEO shootings not one that needs data to support analysis?
What are “points about matters and issues”?
What rhetoric?
I haven’t.
When I arrived in our Nations Capital, Blacks were the majority of our police force. They still are. Do you think that the Wash DC police department views Black citizens here as ‘aliens’?
it is in the same place your data is showing what a freaking roaring success it is.
Yep! Dark rhetoric is all you bring for us to digest. Well, I will have you know telling untruths about liberals as being dark and shadowy political 'demons,' and 'warts' on the body politics just proves your undying devotion to a misguided cause.
What "cause"??
I often have no idea what it is you are attempting to convey to me.
Warts? Demons? Shadowy figures?
What ARE you talking about?
"THIS ARTICLE HAS BEEN RETRACTED" ↑
Now on to the video of this incident which has been released:
At the close of the video, take stock of the gun being pointed down to the ground in this man's hand.
That said, I don't understand why young black men appear, present, or address police officers with guns on them. I will probably never understand that. Even so, it is hard to understand why police are so 'fearful' in the company of Blacks and minorities. That is, with support and a constitution that empowers people to "open carry" - it is disturbingly dangerous when police react to a gun's mere presence enough to shoot to kill.
I will indulge this steady stream of questions. . . once to tell you this: This occurred in Florida. Location matter. Focus. And don't bother posting more extraneous red herrings to distract from the Airman, 23 years old laying sprawled on the floor of his apartment from 6 gunshot wounds, thereabouts. I will ignore any more attempts to stray from this topic.
Hardly, you still haven’t answered (indulged) any questions.
Are these shootings more of a pattern in Florida than elsewhere?
Seriously?
Are Black cop killers disproportionate to their population size?
why do you even respond to him? ... 2 comments at a time.
Sometimes I wonder, too.
... wrong state.
"Concerned, he did what any other law-abiding citizen would do and retrieved his legally-owned gun, but as he was walking back to the living room, police burst through the door. When they saw the gun, they shot Roger six times," Crump said in the statement."
As if it actually went down that way. I'd want to see the body cam before assuming any racist intent
Stand Your Ground laws don't just apply to people attacking kids armed with Skittles.
I don't remember anyone claiming stand your ground against a kid armed with Skittles, i do remember someone claiming self-defense after getting attacked by a thug who thought he was tough.
After having chased said "thug" armed with Skittles, despite having been told to stand down by emergency services dispatchers.
which have no authority to tell anybody to do anything, it isn't a crime to follow someone, and if you are stupid enough to attack them.......well, play stupid games win stupid prizes.
So, you're ok with being stalked?
Odd position to take.
Isn't it interesting, despite all of the leftist media hype, that absolutely NO SUCH DEFENSE WAS USED BY ZIMMERMAN?
Do you and Texan remember why Zimmerman wasn't arrested right away?
Do you now remember that Zimmerman never used stand your ground law as a defense, despite your comment in post 4.1?
Can you quote me saying he did?
If that wasn't what you meant, why bring it up at all?
Since it wasn't used, your post actually signifies nothing.
So, the answer you refuse to give is "no".
Your question isn't relevant.
It is when I'm pointing out your strawman fallacy.
That's pretty funny considering your post, which, of course, had nothing to do with anything anyone was discussing!
Stand Your Ground laws don't apply to people legally using firearms to defend themselves when their homes are forcefully entered?
That's an interesting interpretation.
Your question about Zimmerman not being arrested right away is not relevant.
You keep telling yourself that.
This guy did what Florida law allowed him to do, and got killed for it.
I dont need to keep telling myself the truth, i already know.
Some might want to let the investigation continue before snap judgements.
too bad for the airman the trigger happy cop wasn't thinking that...
Yeah, it’s so much easier to simply pass judgement on things one couldn’t possibly understand or appreciate from the comfort of one’s armchair far far away.
So you were there? Tell us, Greg...what happened? /s
What did your vantage point reveal:
I can’t make any judgments on the early and incomplete evidence, how can you?
He answered the door with the gun at his side, completely legal for him to do so in his own home. He was then shot 6 times, killing him.
I watched the video last night for the first time. that goober cop is going to do a stretch in the big house.
Hopefully they had body cams and we will see the footage.
A tragic turn of events.
Sad, very sad!
This young man is stationed at the same base my boy is
interaction with white southern cops = safety off on my 9mm
looking like okaloosa county taxpayers will be saddled with a multi-million dollar wrongful death suit.
Heartbreaking and shameful and the victim blamers are out in force.
So FOS
only way to deal with those cockroaches
Hopefully they were using cams. If they did not identify themselves they deserve whatever happens to them. If they did loudly identify themselves that changes things.
Correct and if they did identify themselves, Ben Crump should be disbarred.
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And if they didn't identify themselves they should be terminated from the force and tried for murder.
And if they were at the wrong address the above applies with the added caveat that their time should be life plus 100 years should be served at ''Devils Island''.
So few syllables for such an expansive word, even Kipling abused it.
The chances of that are very low. Hopefully we'll have some audio evidence other than the woman on the FaceTime call.
Kipling also said never take the bait.
Bait was not needed.
Why, because he has won too many of these types of cases, that's his job and he seems to be damn good at it.
Many here took it.
This slewed story now needs to be taken down.
We can always depend on a some conservative perspective to devalue 'others' - even though as I look around me we've all grown together in this virtual world and in the real world. I see people of all stripes in my daily 'walk' through life. . . and yet I come here and read trash about our interrelationships and mutual existing together from conservatives. It's very sad and disheartening to know some in our country simply are hindered in liking or loving other humans.
And, 'they' wonder why there is a divide in our country. . . .
THIS story isn't 'slewed'
that probably won't help the longevity of it's slewed replacement ...
It's deplorable
Gee, I wonder why no one has decried this story as mere "local news"?
I live in Florida and if it weren't for this leftist whine fest, I would never have heard about it.
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Saw the video, they opened the door and shot him six times.
They or one deputy?
Want to share the link? I hope the 30 seconds before they broke in is also there
And they yelled twice. For some reason you forgot to mention it
The video has been shown on CNN for two days.
As was my post you responded to
I have better things to do that sit here and hit refresh all day long.
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The only way the right cares about people being murdered in the USA if it was done by an illegal...murders like this? They don't care.
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that is one erroneous "conclusion"!
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that's all you post
Either way this was a result of gross negligence on the part of the Sheriff's Department and heads need to roll on this, bottom line. That young Airman, no matter what color he was, had every right to have a firearm in his possession in his own home when those overeager cops broke open his door without identifying themselves as LEO's.
It seems they did identify themselves
Either way, they were still grossly negligent just being at the wrong address!
We are far from done with the ongoing investigation. It may well turn out that the deputy was negligent in this shooting.
Currently, the sheriff is pushing back at the wrong address angle. He said that they received a domestic disturbance report and the caller provided the airman’s apartment address. Upon arrival, the deputy saw a woman outside the complex. Bodycam video released yesterday confirms that she also identified the disturbance as in apartment 1401. Video also substantiates that the officer twice announced law enforcement at the door which the airman acknowledged.
Again, a long way to go to substantiate the facts here. My time in the military taught me that many times, initial reports of serious incidents were wrong. The state police will investigate and if necessary, so will the Feds. They just need time.
Yes.
This is the thing about SYG laws. When cops show up, they need to know that it is legal under those laws for the homeowner to be armed, and to expect that.
He was armed, legally. He did not brandish his weapon. It was not pointed toward the deputy. If he was the only person in the apartment, he was obviously not involved in a domestic dispute.
Wrong. Any properly trained CPL holder can tell you the legal meaning of “brandish” in relation to handguns. It goes as follows:
So legally, he was brandishing. The question becomes, was this shooting righteous. That question is most definitely up in the air.
Ok, I stand corrected.
trump wants to make LE shootings like this exempt from the law.
I want no part of a country where the government can with impunity execute innocent people on the basis of "Somebody said she was in a fight, and I thought she might have a gun." Such exemption would likely lead to more LE getting killed, because people will, with reason, fear that every interaction with LE can lead to their deaths, and behave accordingly.
I really don't think people who hold such views think things through, at all.
So you disagree with....."if you see something, say something".
What in the world does that have to do with my comment?
How absurd to equate opposition to extrajudicial execution with opposition to reporting crime.
as a child of the 60's & 70's I experienced bad cop bullshit first hand. it's a job that attracts some people which may have major issues. I went to high school in a new suburb that hired cops from back east that weren't allowed to be cops in those states anymore. a few of the worst ones received a welcome to colorado experience.
Fair enough, but the gun was at his side, he wasn't aiming it at the cops. He is entitled to have his legally purchased firearm in his hand in his own home. He made no threatening moves, never raised the gun. The cops over reacted plain and simple.
Irrelevant in relation to brandishing. Any good CPL course will emphasize the dangers of simple brandishing and this case just reinforces the potential seriousness of such action. Had he ever taken a CPL course? Unknown.
You open your door with a weapon visible in your hand. Shit like this can happen. Sure it’s legal but what good will that do if you’re dead?
I agree and a thorough investigation will likely come to that conclusion but again. This young man is still needlessly dead.
You are glossing over an important fact (about brandishing a weapon): The officer is the 'outsider' here. The Airman is at home and accordingly is entitled to have his gun present inside of his apartment. He is likely trained to use a firearm since he is Air Force and a weapons specialists, and of course, some conservatives can appreciate that he, like themselves , in the state of Florida especially, has a right to bear arms in his own home. The weapon was never pointed at the deputy .
Senior Airman Roger Fortson, 23, did not appear rude, careless (with his gun), angry, or threatening towards the deputy.
Thus, you are right! This airman is dead for no good reason.
In the video, the cop knocks the first time, he didn't say who he was. 30 seconds later, he knocked again, then announcing who he was. In that intervening 30 seconds, it's assumed he grabbed his sidearm. Should he have opened the door with his gun in his hand if he knew for certain it was law enforcement? Of course not. My guess is he didn't know who was at the door. In the end, he didn't do anything illegal.
I agree that he is needlessly dead.
Have you ever shot a handgun? Have you ever owned one? If yes have ever taken a defense or CPL course.
No to all of the above I bet.
Great advise:
This is not about a concealed weapon, it's plain to see to all who watch the video. And, I repeat. The airman was not brandishing a weapon in violation of Florida law.
The 2023 Florida Statutes
(Including Special Session C)
“In the State of Florida, it is a criminal offense to resist arrest or to use any form of weapon or defense against an officer of the law whilst they carry out their lawful duties. Brandishing, discharging, or otherwise threatening an officer with a firearm carries with it additional, steep legal penalties and sanctions.”
You have opportunity to read the state brandishing statue: Now then, using the timestamp on the video (3.1.47) let us see what "offense" you are seeking to exploit! Please proceed. . . .
(Hint: It has to happen after the door is opened to the outside, so 'rush' the video forward to that point if you want to save time. It will be quick and short because the Airman was 'dropped' in less than thirty seconds thereabouts.)
I haven't tried to exploit! anything. I've consistently said we need to withhold judgement until the investigation is completed.
How dare you be so damn sensible and reasonable!!
Shame, shame!
You have the video submitted for a 'personal' review at 3.1.47 and the Florida brandishing statue at 11.2.14 you can see (and not wait to be told what to think). MAGAs regularly hit others for not thinking for themselves whether rightly or wrongly it is done. . . well, think for yourself! And when any other truths come out we can blend them in to the discussion as "updates."
Holding a weapon pointed at the floor is not Brandishing.
After watching the video and reading commentary about the same, I think that the Airman realized that it was not a home invasion, opened the door when he realized that it was a police officer thinking to himself "oh, it's ok it's just a cop and I am an Airman. We should be cool." and then the police officer totally freaked out and shot him six times.
Is that what happened? Can't say for sure, but the casual way he answered the door seems indicative of it.
I have reviewed it.
Yes, maybe you can predict Floridian juries decisions based on the nuances and this law.
I'm not waiting to be told what to think, I waiting for more evidence to be presented.
I've never been a MAGA, perhaps your retention of my past comments is low.
I don't know what you think this means but I know not to ask.
That will be up to a jury perhaps.
That may be what happened. We also need to know who called in the 911, why and why did the woman who met the cop give him the same room number as the call.
That is a sensible conclusion. Even I would have done so. . .without the gun in my case. . . probably owing to the fact that I have a lifetime of experience watching and reading about these things. A 23 years old Airman-maybe not so much. It's sad 'all-around' what comes next.
Just for shakes and chuckles: we need the deputy who did the shooting identified too. If others are identified that are presently kept out of the news. Then his background can be scrutinized by those who like, 'er love, to look through others documented past for something negative to put out publicly too. /s
I don't see any chuckles in this incident.
That always happens at some point during the investigation.
Like the girlfriend?
A criminal or civil jury will be instructed in the law on brandishing a weapon. They will see the camera footage of an Airman holding a gun in the downward position; an officer in full authority of his position forgetting to tell the Airman to place the weapon on the floor (in case the Airman has forgotten he is holding it in the presence of an 'official,' and then in less than 10 seconds for him to follow an instruction to back up- he was laying on his floor with six bullets from that "authority figure" in his chest and arms.
That is what the jury will see. Brandishing a weapon. . . is not an issue here.
Yes, we do need to know those things also. But the body language when he opens the door says," We are equal. We are both on the same team. How you doing?" Too bad that the officer did not read that. I agree that we still need to know who called the report in initially. But it looks like a case of manslaughter to me, in my totally not-a-professional opinion.
Perhaps you have more experience than I do at predicting Florida juries.
I don't disagree.
Yes, domestic disturbance calls seem to make cops even more wary.
Likely a tragic mistake for the airman to have held bon to the gun and for the deputy to have shot.
See the law on banishing a weapon. It's been provided for consumption here.
Yes, I read it.
This just shows an obtuse understand of the concepts at play. I never said it was about a concealed weapon. CPL training teaches proper gun handling for all situations. Had you taken such a course you would understand.
I see you avoided answering all my questions. Which answers them and just reinforces a lack of knowledge of the concepts at play here.
Your comments simply reveal another know it all who actually knows little to nothing about the topic at hand. Nothing new there considering.
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Then you should have no problem taking your 'ball' off my playground. You've exposed nothing. I long since have had the discussion about military service, being homosexual, and my religious views on NT. And I have memories of you being on NT at the time commenting on various articles with me.
I see no reason to 'trot' those facts about myself out at your beck and call. You command nothing in me. As for what CPL teaches great! You should have stated so much in the first place. . . perhaps you and your cleverness can take the time to explain where the Airman went wrong. So far you have kept it close to your chest!
Moreover, Florida statue states the Airman was not brandishing is gun (in his own home of all places). But do tell us why Florida law gets it wrong. /s
Yes, yes, and yes for me. In my neck of the desert in Arizona we call it a CCP for Concealed Carry Permit, which is interesting because Arizona is a open carry state where a CCP is not required to carry open or concealed.
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Seems you want to make this personal. I have no desire for that folly.
I never said brandishing was a chargeable offense in Fla. it doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t the best move in this situation. Brandishing in this situation was absolutely the wrong tact to take. The video I linked explains this very well to anyone who bothered to watch it.
i find it interesting that people here who are traditionally for more gun control, seem to be arguing for less gun control in this situation. I am not. I’m 100% 2nd amendment rights but unlike others here I understand proper gun handling. Answering the door like he did escalated the situation beyond what it needed to be. And put the LEO on the offensive when he didn’t need to be. Gun ownership carries an awesome responsibility that many here don’t seem to grasp.
I can’t help but think that this is because it was a black man. Had it been a white hillbilly many of you would be saying he deserved what he got. The bias involved is not lost on me.
Not in the least.
Already asked and answered. Yes it is brandishing, by definition.
You went personal, so folly it was.
And I never said the Airman was brandishing a weapon either according to a Florida State statute.
Sure, I can see that the Airman's gun is exposed in his right hand, and dictionary-wise he is "displaying' a gun. And yes, legally brandishing a weapon in Florida under certain restrictions is a chargeable offense.
And yes it got this Airman killed to have the gun in his hand.
And yes, your provided video gun expert stated the obvious: some groups of people, and depending on the person per se, could not walk up to an officer with a gun exposed. I watched the video in its entirety.
And yet so. . .the officer is in trouble, because he never asked the Airman to drop the gun (even though his gun was already out?); and/or, he reached and got his gun after shouting "Stand back!" and the Airman proceeded to FOLLOW THE OFFICER'S STATED DIRECTIVE. Thus, the Airman's gun is now on his far side and AWAY from the officer. Correction: The gun would have been on the Airman's far side away. . .but for the fact that the Airman was on the floor himself from having been shot six times.
As you can see, I grasp many a scenario through discernment moving to the most human of possible scenarios .
Finally, I am pretty sure there are some people who can pass a police academy who really should not be officers with the authority to shoot and kill:
One, if an officer is "fearful" of his life in a situation where he is the "authority figure" who HAS TO STAY CALM or tensions will certain escalate,
Two, if an officer is prone to implicit bias and 'otherization' of certain groups in the population, . . .
. . . probably, ask for a permanent desk assignment.
I will leave the hillbilly remark alone. Because I am sure I have watched a great many hillbilly programming/series in my time.
lol ….. funny ….
Of course, a young Airman is dead, making this a genuine not laughingly funny matter.
I can't prove it. . . but it could appear the deputy asked this 23 years old servicemember, being too close to him, to "stand back" so he could get clean shots into him.
... so all the cops there could get clear shots.
I just realized that I made a "funny" in-spite of myself! Because it was strongly in my mind for days now after watching the video as to "Why, shoot so fast?" (Unless, the deputy saw the gun only after the Airman stepped back, to be fair to the deputy.)
Also, it does appear to be one deputy involved in this story, in my opinion.
It’s good to find the humor in tragedy.
Of course I wasn’t talking about my dead brother and I take umbrage with the allusion you are attempting with that comment. You see, all service members are brothers and sisters to fellow Vets. Tough for non Vets to understand so you get a free pass for making such an obtuse comment.
I was laughing at your comment and your comment only.
I am a veteran, period. So 'brother' get use to it. There, you can stop digging now.
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Bad guys have been known to falsely claim to be police
Oh, for Christ's sake ! To quote [deleted] [✘] Drinker of the Wry, " Is your analysis based on surveys or something else".
Not an analysis, just an observation which most people understand to be true.
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probably even people like that know it too. Heck, I bet even most of the folks who get their "news" from late night comedians know it, too!
Sad that some don't.......
Check to see if your Google is working. Mine brings up examples of folks impersonating cops to murder or rob whenever I type "Cases where people impersonated cops to kill or rob".
It really works!
I believe charger's point was that anybody could have said they were the police. If Fortson even heard them through the door, how did he know they were telling the truth? He wasn't expecting the police to show up, because he hadn't done anything wrong. He had no idea he was being accused of domestic violence, because he was alone.
my cousin's husband used to make a really good living negotiating settlements for LE fuck ups like this.
Not related to a shooting, but there was a police officer back home who had gained the reputation of taking liberties with women he pulled over while on patrol. This was way before bodycams, so it would be his word against hers. A family friend was pulled over years ago by him, and he told her to get out of the car, for a simple speeding ticket. She refused, and told him why. Nothing ever came of her refusal.
I got a speeding ticket in a sundown town in the texas panhandle 3 years ago. I was in a rental car with west coast plates and had the cruise control set at 2mph above the speed limit of 75, which means everybody else is passing me. I wasn't about to argue, since I had my 9mm in my pocket. I spoke to the one cop through the window while the other was at my 2 o'clock 12 feet from me standing there with his hand on his holster. I plea bargained the ticket down over the phone.
There was a serial rapist about 30 years ago in Arkansas who called the Blue LIght Rapist. He would place a blue light on his dash and pull women over and rape them.
I remember hearing about that on the news.
In our case, it was an actual sheriff's deputy, not an impostor.
I'd like to think that his buddies would put a stop to it, but the WV State Police are under investigation for the presence of cameras in a women's locker room, including during a Junior Trooper program attended by minors until 2020. Somehow, I never hear about that anymore. I wonder why /s
I wonder: Is this rapist who used police "effects" the reason why people now 'demand' to pull over in populated lighted areas? Is this the incident that started the national 'trend'?
I believe so. I know women were warned in Arkansas that if they saw a blue light to wait until they could get to a safe spot before stopping
That is a 'throwback' phrase: "Sundown town." Do those places still exist as such? I always thought they had to do with people who wanted their towns "exited" by outsiders at dusk, especially 'undesirables' as determined by locals.
What is interesting and disturbing at the same time is police agencies still do not 'know' how they feel or should process when people don't immediately stop and pull over for them. The practice of delaying pulling over lies in controversy. As I do not get stopped by LEOs (thankfully-I don't drive much at night), I often wonder what I should/would do in such a situation.
I drive mostly during the day and just back and forth to work. On the rare occasion I have to go out of town I try not to speed
Yes, Sundown towns still exist. The bedroom community I currently live in was once a sundown town but it's becoming more diversified.
There's a well known town in Arkansas called Harrison that is a sundown town.
It sorta weird, I have mild concerns about driving while Black (not so much in California-as these occurrences rarely don't make the news here). . .but, life is so different for females. . . . The female perspective has to take into consideration a great number of things that a male takes for granted or is not privy to dealing with ever. And yet, women make it look so normal and routine.
Wow. I guess somehow they keep it legal to be so.
"Diversity" . . . there is that dirty word for MAGAs again. It's good to 'hear' about a community that is positive about diversifying its citizenry!
we had a cop in denver that worked out speeding ticket fines in his cruiser. buster was his name I think. he finally croaked a few decades ago...
there's one in mar-a-lardo florida that stalks the golf courses in a red hat...
CA is the 18th highest state in per capita police killings.
Getting to be data driven.
Interesting how you chose to link to my comment through. . . an alternative technique.
Also, It is not necessary for you to post stats relative to my comment as I was specifically speaking anecdotally about my experiences with officers and news accountings.
Lastly, I do not know what point you are hoping to make: Agreement or disagreement with my comment.
In any case, there is a dead airman that is the larger topic here so . . . .
Of course it's not necessary, but should a topic this important only be discussed anecdotally?
I wasn't trying to make a point, only provide relevant data.
Unfortunately true, but there is an ongoing investigation that folks are reluctant to withhold judgement until it's complete.
I was speaking anecdotally to another member. I am entitled to do so. You don't get to check me on that. You could have kept that two-cents worth of data for someone else without hi-jacking my words for exploitation. I won't be exploited.
Of course you are, and I am entitled to try to bring some data into an important discussion.
I’m sorry that you feel exploited.
And at #1 ? Mississippi. A red state, of course...
The places with the highest gun murder rates in 2021 included the District of Columbia (22.3 per 100,000 people), Mississippi (21.2), Louisiana (18.4), Alabama (13.9) and New Mexico (11.7).
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Yet Mississippi is still majority white and bright MAGA red...
Google couldn’t find this quote, please help.
Wish I still had hair like that.
Current law allows 16 and 17-year-olds to get married with parental consent. So once again you are posting bullshit meaningless memes
Google isn't very good at finding imaginary things.
Try Googling "Intelligent far left radicals"
Par for the course.
Airman Fortson is on the phone with his girlfriend, no one else is in his apartment. Then he hears a knock at the door and sees no one through the peephole. Getting concerned he retrieves his handgun and then the second ''open up Sheriff's Department''. Fortson opens the door with a weapon in his hand pointing at the ground and displaying no hostile behavior the Sheriff's deputy opens fire six shots at point blank range, three hit Fortson in the chest and three others in the arm. Then the Sheriff's Deputy decides to tell him to drop the gun which lies some distance from Fortson who is on the floor dying.
It is not illegal to have a gun in Florida or to have it in your hand in your own home. The Airman did nothing wrong in a criminal sense. His error was to believe that it was OK to open the door. Perhaps he was inexperienced in face-to-face contact with LEOs, too trusting, and sadly knowing that he was innocent of any crime felt that was enough to protect him. A horrible mistake by Airman Fortson that cost him his life.
According to all that is known about the airman he was an outstanding service member with a clean record both in the military and in civilian life. Now, we have a dead airman, a family in shambles, and a brutal time ahead for all involved.
Florida is awash in guns, so I don't see this as the last of this type of shooting. It also seems that the Sheriff dept has had a few questionable incidents in the last years. Lack of training, cowboy department, lack of leadership. At this point who knows but it is generally the civilian that pays the price and more often than not that person is a person from one of the minority groups.
Obviously he was the wrong color. No other explanation needed. It's abhorrent how many are defending the scum who shot this man dead for no reason whatsoever
In today's world it is best to always remember this:
“Protect your spirit, because you are in the place where spirits get eaten.”
I prefer to drink mine. I got a bottle of redemption on my shelf, but you better hurry as rye doesn't last long when I'm saving myself. Good God almighty I'm glory bound.
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