How does this end? With Hamas holding firm and fighting back in Gaza, Israel faces only bad options | AP News
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
The Israeli military said Thursday that its troops continued operating in Gaza's southern city of Rafah, in central Gaza and in Jabaliya.
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JERUSALEM (AP) — Diminished but not deterred, Hamas is still putting up a fight after seven brutal months of war with Israel, regrouping in some of the hardest-hit areas in northern Gaza and resuming rocket attacks into nearby Israeli communities.
Israel initially made tactical advances against Hamas after a devastating aerial bombardment paved the way for its ground troops. But those early gains have given way to a grinding struggle against an adaptable insurgency — and a growing feeling among many Israelis that their military faces only bad options, drawing comparisons with U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
This was the subtext of a rebellion in recent days by two members of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's three-man War Cabinet — Defense Minister Yoav Gallant and Benny Gantz, Netanyahu's main political rival — who demanded that he come up with detailed postwar plans.
They supported Israel's retaliation for Hamas' Oct. 7 attack, including one of the heaviest bombing campaigns in recent history, ground operations that obliterated entire neighborhoods and border restrictions that the U.N.'s World Food Program says pushed parts of the territory into famine.
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But now the two retired generals fear a prolonged, costly re-occupation of Gaza, from which Israel withdrew soldiers and settlers in 2005. They are also opposed to a withdrawal that would leave Hamas in control or lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Instead, they have put forth alternatives that many Israelis see as wildly unrealistic. Hamas, meanwhile, has proposed its own postwar plan.
Here's a look at four ways this war might end.
FULL-SCALE MILITARY OCCUPATION
FILE - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu attends the weekly cabinet meeting in the prime minister's office in Jerusalem, June 25, 2023. (Abir Sultan/Pool Photo via AP, File)
Netanyahu has promised a "total victory" that would remove Hamas from power, dismantle its military capabilities and return the scores of hostages it still holds from the attack that triggered the war.
He has said victory could come within weeks if Israel launches a full-scale invasion of Rafah, which Israel portrays as the last Hamas stronghold.
Amir Avivi, a retired Israeli general and former deputy commander of the Gaza division, says that's only the beginning. He said Israel would need to remain in control to prevent Hamas from regrouping.
"If you don't drain the swamp, you cannot deal with the mosquitoes. And drain the swamp means a complete change in the education system, and dealing with local leadership and not with a terror organization," he said. "This is a generational process. It's not going to happen in a day."
Far-right members of Netanyahu's governing coalition, who hold the key to his remaining in power, have called for permanent occupation, "voluntary emigration" of large numbers of Palestinians to anywhere that will have them, and rebuilding of Jewish settlements in Gaza.
Most Israelis are opposed, pointing to the immense costs of stationing thousands of troops in the territory that is home to 2.3 million Palestinians. As an occupying power, Israel would likely be held responsible for providing health, education and other services. It's unclear to what extent international donors would step in to fund reconstruction amid ongoing hostilities.
There's also no guarantee such an occupation would eliminate Hamas.
Israel was in full control of Gaza when Hamas was established in the late 1980s. Israel's 18-year occupation of southern Lebanon coincided with the rise of Hezbollah, and Israeli troops routinely battle militants in the West Bank, which it has controlled since 1967.
A LIGHTER OCCUPATION, AIDED BY 'UNICORNS'
FILE - Palestinians line up for a meal in Rafah, Gaza Strip, Thursday, Dec. 21, 2023. The United Nations said Tuesday, May 21, 2024, it suspended food distribution in the southern Gaza city of Rafah due to lack of supplies and insecurity. It also said no aid trucks entered in the past two days via a floating pier set up by the U.S. for sea deliveries. (AP Photo/Fatima Shbair, File)
Netanyahu has said Israel will maintain security control over Gaza but delegate civilian administration to local Palestinians unaffiliated with Hamas or the Western-backed Palestinian Authority, which governs parts of the occupied West Bank. He has suggested that Arab and other countries assist with governance and rebuilding.
But so far, none have shown interest.
No Palestinians are known to have offered to cooperate with the Israeli military, perhaps because Hamas has said they would be treated as collaborators, a veiled death threat.
Efforts to reach out to Palestinian businessmen and powerful families "have ended in catastrophe," says Michael Milshtein, an Israeli analyst of Palestinian affairs at Tel Aviv University and a former military intelligence officer.
He says Israelis seeking such allies are searching for "unicorns" — something that does not exist.
Arab states have also roundly rejected this scenario — even the United Arab Emirates, which is one of the few to formally recognize Israel and has close ties with it.
"The UAE refuses to be involved in any plan aimed at providing cover for the Israeli presence in the Gaza Strip," Foreign Minister Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan said this month.
A GRAND BARGAIN
FILE - Benny Gantz, a key member of Israel's War Cabinet and the top political rival of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, leaves a meeting in the office of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., at the Capitol in Washington, on March 4, 2024. (AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite, File)
FILE - Israel Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant makes a joint statement with his U.S. counterpart, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, after their meeting about Israel's military operation in Gaza, in Tel Aviv, Israel, on Dec. 18, 2023. (AP Photo/Maya Alleruzzo, File)
Instead, Arab states have coalesced around a U.S. proposal aimed at resolving the decades-old conflict and transforming the Middle East.
Under this plan, a reformed Palestinian Authority would govern Gaza with the assistance of Arab and Muslim nations, including Saudi Arabia, which would normalize relations with Israel in return for a U.S. defense pact and help in building a civilian nuclear program.
But U.S. and Saudi officials say that hinges on Israel committing to a credible path to eventual Palestinian statehood.
Netanyahu has ruled out such a scenario — as have Gallant and Gantz — saying it would reward Hamas and result in a militant-run state on Israel's borders.
Palestinians say ending Israel's decades-long occupation and creating a fully independent state in Gaza, the West Bank and east Jerusalem — territories Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast war — is the only way to end the cycle of bloodshed.
Hamas has said it would accept a two-state solution on at least an interim basis, but its political program still calls for the "full liberation of Palestine," including what is now Israel. Hamas has also said it must be part of any postwar settlement.
A DEAL WITH HAMAS
Relatives and supporters of Israeli hostages held by Hamas in Gaza hold photos of their loved ones during a performance calling for their return in Tel Aviv, Israel, Thursday, May 23, 2024. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)
Hamas has proposed a very different grand bargain — one that, ironically enough, might be more palatable to Israelis than the U.S.-Saudi deal.
The militant group has proposed a phased agreement in which it would release all of the hostages in return for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners — including senior militants — as well as the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza, a lengthy cease-fire and reconstruction.
That would almost certainly leave Hamas in control of Gaza and potentially allow it to rebuild its military capabilities. Hamas might even claim victory, despite the extensive death and destruction suffered by Palestinian civilians since Oct. 7.
But thousands of Israeli protesters have taken to the streets in recent weeks calling on their leaders to take such a deal, because it's probably the only way to get the hostages back.
They accuse Netanyahu of standing in the way of such an agreement because it could lead his far-right allies to bring down his government, potentially ending his political career and exposing him to prosecution on corruption charges.
Supporters of such a deal say there would be other benefits for Israel, beyond freeing the hostages.
The low-intensity conflict with Lebanon's Hezbollah would likely die down as regional tensions ease, allowing tens of thousands of people on both sides of the border to return to their homes. Israel could finally reckon with the security failures that led to Oct. 7.
And it could prepare for another inevitable round of fighting.
Milshtein says Israel should adopt Hamas' concept of a "hudna" — a prolonged period of strategic calm.
"Hudna doesn't mean a peace agreement," he said. "It's a cease-fire that you will exploit in order to make yourself stronger and then to attack and surprise your enemy." ___
Follow AP's war coverage at https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war
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Heavy fighting in the north of Gaza, again. Increased fighting with Hezbollah and the West Bank is exploding.
Did Egypt sabotage the peace process?
I believe Hamas did that on Oct. 7.
Egypt changed terms of Gaza ceasefire deal presented to Hamas, surprising negotiators, sources say
israel should demand proof of living hostages within 24 hours, or start executing imprisoned militants, top down, until they get that proof. then negotiate the release of 1 hostage for each prisoner or an illegal settlement abandoned intact in the west bank. if the radical religious settlers resist eviction, let the sane members of the IDF take them out feet first. annex a strip of southern lebanon connecting the west bank to the sea and deport all israeli ultra nationalists and their leadership to their new gaza homeland, creating a 3 state solution, solving the bibi problem, and the unsustainable financial burden on israel of religious welfare for those unwilling to work or fight for their country.
failing that solution, all the religious radical trash in that region have been exterminating each other for 3000+ years. we need to help all of them become much more efficient at it, after evacuating the innocent. I'm good with whatever it takes to eliminate radicals from all 3 abrahamic religions until the endless cycle of revenge and retribution is finished, no matter how many religious radicals end up in hypocrite paradise.
Nah, recents history shows non believers whacking and stacking bodies at a much greater volume. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc
Plenty of intolerance to go around …..
Atheists in the 20th century killed more than in all the european wars of religion combined.
Yep, many of my friends on the left have a real issue with that fact.
Doesn't change what I said. They had their chance at peace. They blew it on Oct. 7.
whenever you're ready to talk about the genocidal effects the mackerel snapper church had on the new world...
got anything relevant from this century?
"their chance at peace"? Are you kidding? Hamas doesn't want peace other than that PIECE that is the WHOLE of The Land of Israel. Their constitution demands it, they've made it clear they demand it, their Koran directs them to kill the Jews, their Imams tell them 'The Day of Judgment' will not come until they fight the Jews and kill them. They will not give up, because if they give up they will not be martyrs earning the privilege of deflowering their 72 virgins in The Garden of Allah. Don't presume that those monsters think the way you do or any civilized beings do.
ultra nationalists in israel don't want peace, other than that next piece of stolen palestinian land to build another illegal settlement. let the religious radicals on both sides kill each other off, like they have for centuries, after all the innocent that wish to live in peace are evacuated. this war serves only one purpose, to keep the radical religious relics of the past in power and wealth, at the expense of those with no place left to go, on both sides.
That is what I was getting at. Now that Israel is decimating Hamas fighters they are crying for peace (again).
No-- if anything its to their advantage to have peace.
Why? Because they are a poor country and rely on tourism &Suez Canal tolls for income. Continued fighting may hurt tourism. However ships are avoiding the canal because the Houthis are firing on ships entering the Red Sea (which is the route to the canal).
How does this end?
With a lot more dead Palestinian civilians in both Gaza and the West Bank.
Israel was ramping up expansion of settlements and expulsion of Palestinians in the West Bank well before Oct 7. It has increased the pace after Oct 7; and that will not change regardless of how Gaza plays out.
.
As for Gaza, it really doesn't matter what Israel does. They have already fomented the next generation of Gazan terrorists with their current actions. It is only a matter of how long it takes for the next Hamas (or maybe even Hamas itself) to gain enough strength to again attack Israel directly.
Wash, rinse, and repeat. The stupid cycle of violence in the world's most dysfunctional sand box will continue without end.
the US state department should hold a news conference in jerusalem and announce that the USN has leased all the land those illegal settlements are on, from the rightful palestinian owners, for ordinance testing to begin on 7/4/24.
I bet the Air Force would like a piece of that action
I thought you said the USAF was all thumped out with religious brass.
They still like to blow shit up
well, since they have cruise missiles, okay...
Like any good Christian.
those 10 commandments are for the unforgiven...
jerusalem turns into the world's biggest radioactive punch bowl and all 3 abrahamic religion's radicals standing around with their dicks in their hands for a half a million years during a long nuclear winter. oh wait, all 3 religious sects will become groceries...
That is true, but lets put the blame where it belongs and that is with Evangelical Christians here in the US. They have a very unholy allegiance with the Orthodox fanatics in Israel. You might want to read this:
thank you for that very astute comment. the number of scam xtian charities in the US attempting to fast track armageddon by enabling and encouraging religious unrest in their support of israeli ultra nationalists in the middle east is jaw dropping. this is not lost on those that are their victims in the middle east, and all americans are then seen by them as accomplices. case in point, do you remember the repetitive charity commercials run a few years ago about supporting russian WWII holocaust survivors? it raised millions until it was exposed as bullshit when somebody did the math on their ages. now the scam is starving palestinian children in gaza, that will never see one US dollar that was allegedly raised for them by fake xtian charities.
thumpers don't want muslims to kill the jews, because they think that god given privilege of conversion or death belongs to them.
Oh, that's the reason they want to save Jews. It might be nice if American Jews wanted to save Jews.
whenever you're ready to talk about the catholic religion's history with jews, I'm ready...
with regards to religious karma coming due, the hypocritical mackerel snapper church is top of the hit parade.
That is a totally bigoted, ignorant and incredibly arrogant comment. What would really be nice is if people who aren't Jewish didn't presume to tell Jews what to do regarding Israel or anything else for that matter.
No doubt. I'm sure there are alot of those raised Christians who hold a similar opinion.
There are. I know many, assuming you're referring to Christians who also believe that people who aren't Jewish should not presume to tell Jews what to do.
So, we can talk about Evangelical Christians but not American Jews who put their wokeism over their religion. I think you should think about the way Christians are talked about by non-Christians before you call anyone else bigoted.
in true maga form, way to double down with another willfully ignorant comment.
That is a breathtakingly arrogant, bigoted and ignorant comment.
That comment is a vile slur but it will certainly play well in the Unified Reich.
Furthermore, "wokeism" as used by reactionary propagandists is a hoax.
I think that there are others on this site who are more knowledgeable about how Jews think than you do, Vic, so if I were you I would not make assumptions about how Jews think or feel about issues such as Israel or Muslims or which political party is more attuned to their preferences.
I think I do know.
Then what you have to know is that, same as any other religion or ethnic group or race Jews do not all fit into a single mold. They run the gambit from the ultra-Orthodox Haradim with the black hats or fur hats and earlocks running down their cheeks to self-loathing Jews like Noam Chomsky and I think Bernie Sanders and those who call themselves Christian Jews i.e. Jews for Jesus, and a whole spectrum in between, and their political beliefs and loyalties are every bit as varied. I couldn't possibly guess what each sect's, each movement's, in fact each individual's, political leanings are today - but you do? Although before Trump became POTUS I think it might have been possible to believe that Jews were mostly liberal, considered Democrats to be the most liberal and therefore generally supported them - I've seen polls that suggested that. But I think things started to change when Trump was POTUS, and may well have changed even more with Biden's moves during the present Israel-Hamas war. But without a survey taken by a reputable source, who knows where it all stands today? But you DO know?
Why do you think all the American Jews want Israel destroyed?
In the interests of accuracy, let me re-phrase that:
Why, in your expert opinion-- do you believe that?
like peas in a pod ...
but you do?
Well, consider this: maybe he's just much smarter, much more intelligent, than the rest of us?
So, the consensus hereabouts seems to be that Israel should just declare victory and leave. Let the UN handle it.
That sure makes a lot of sense!
s/
Actually that does seem to be the consensus amongst some people-- but not the consensus amongst others!
Which means its not actually a consensus-- but rather an assumption on your part. (Not that there's anything wrong with that...
)
The only way this works is a two state solution. But both states must be secure from events like October 7th. Otherwise it won’t work. Never has with specters like that hanging over peoples heads.
Follow the money and choke out the folks funding Hamas and Hezbollah. This will need to be the entire world to be effective. That said, Hamas must be completely wiped out unless they honestly change their goals. Hezbollah is not far behind …..
So how do you plan on handling the IDF and Israeli settlers that control the vast majority of the West Bank now? So long as they are in place there can be no two state solution. Once you solve that problem there is still the issue of getting Israel to remove their people from East Jerusalem- which it has already taken as it's capital.
I agree whole heartedly that Hamas and Hezbollah need to be choked off from money. That will end their organizations faster than all of the military hardware Israel has. That still won't solve the problems of those financing Israel and their settlement expansion; and the corrupt PA which is allowing it.
IMO the situation is already past the point of no return. Sooner or later Israel will force the Palestinians out of West Bank, Gaza, and even Israel proper. Which will change the fighting dynamics to Syria, Lebanon, and possibly Jordan and Egypt.
It’s nice to share …..
Seriously, removing the threat of being murdered in your sleep goes a long way. I like to think that cooler heads could still prevail. But we gotta stop the main actors funding this shit, specifically Iran.
As long as they’re pulling the strings ….. no peace in our time.
how much is the US total yearly expenditures for foreign aid and armaments to israel?
how much does israel spend on expanding, supporting, and defending illegal settlements in the west bank?
how much of the israeli budget fully supports a significant population segment of religious ultra nationalists that do not work, but study the torah full time, while breeding like rabbits, and have exempted themselves from mandatory military service?
3 state. evict all the israeli religious extremists into gaza so that muslim religious extremists can focus on them. the haredim won't fight, so it shouldn't take too long, unless they can get their wives to work and join a militia... /s
You tell me. While you’re at maybe you can tell me how many Jewish babies Hamas has cooked in ovens lately.
maybe you can tell me how many palestinian kids starved or buried under the rubble of bombed buildings are worth in comparison. there is plenty of blame to be shared on both sides.
“..,how many palestinian kids starved or buried under the rubble of bombed buildings are worth…”
As long as the players are willing to accept the collateral consequences, which seems tragically likely, the carnage will continue as it has for millennia.
speaking as a US taxpayer, we don't need to be funding it. I'm in favor of a 2 state solution, and until that happens, all foreign aid should stop.
Maybe you can tell me who voted for Hamas in their last election almost two decades ago …..
There have been two states for a while.
While there is a horrendous war going on,the fact is that there is a self governing Palestinian state-- in Gaza!
Before Hamas broke a long standing cease fire (Oct 7) who ruled Gaza? Hamas-- Israel didn't rule Gaza-- there wasn't a single Jew in the entire place.
Hamas was an independent, self governing state (yes, Gaza was a dictatorship-- but the dictators were Palestinians (Hamas).
Self governing doesn't mean only democracies-- the fact is that the duly elected leaders of the Palestinians-- Hamas-- were Palestinians-- who were were ruling Gaza!
Please point Palestine out on any current Western map? Please show where Palestine is seated at the UN? Please show the Palestinian embassy in the US or any country for that matter? Please show the US embassy, or any country embassy for that matter, in Palestine?
Palestinians don't have a state, period. They have Gaza, which Israel has had a complete blockade on since 2007. They have the West Bank- or what is left of it- where the PA is supposed to be in control; but really it is the IDF and settlers running the show. Nothing gets in or out of the West Bank w/o Israel's authorization. Neither control their own air, space, borders, or even water rights. You need all of those things to qualify as a state.
You think Hamas is still in control of Gaza? I would laugh if it wasn't so pitiful- as many other Americans still believe the same damn thing! Israel is the controlling power in Gaza. Always has been. Always will be. Doesn't matter if there are IDF and settlers there or not. Who controls Gaza's borders? Israel- and Egypt who does whatever Israel says regarding what gets into and out of Gaza through the border crossings they operate. Who controls Gaza's air space? Israel, as Gaza doesn't even have an airport- much the less an air force of any type. Who controls the waters off Gaza? Again Israel- nothing gets in or out of Gazan waters w/o Israel's permission. Remember all of the aid ships that were raided in the waters off Gaza by Israel? Remember the Gazan fishermen that were shot at by the Israeli navy for having the temerity to try and fish too far out in their own waters? Remember the families at the beach in Gaza that were shelled by the Israeli Navy? Who controls the water and power in Gaza? Again that is Israel- proven by the very fact they shut off both after Oct 7. Gaza has it's own water source; which Israel freely taps- Israel forces Gazans (or more accurately the rest of the world) to pay for Israeli run desalination plants to provide water for Gaza. Hamas is in control. They are the tyrannical wardens of the largest open air prison in the world. They were put in charge by Israel and Bush Jr.
Last election was in 2006. By the way Hamas didn't win majority control. They were the minority party of what was supposed to be a PA lead collation government. Hamas didn't want to play so killed off and expelled the PA from Gaza. Israel gleefully allowed that to happen. They prevented the PA from moving more security and weapons into Gaza to maintain control. Israel loves the Palestinians killing each other off. And the PA, Hamas, and Hezbollah are more than eager to do so.
You have probably heard this before; but the vast majority of Gazans were even born since the last election in 2006. To state that Gazans elected in Hamas is a fallacy. Iran, and Israel, kept Hamas in power since 2006. Now Israel is seeking a non PA alternative to run the largest open air prison in the world. Funny how no (non PA) Palestinians are stepping forward. You think they would be eager to take over Gaza as Israel's proxy. Israel being a kind, benevolent, and caring democracy and all. The only true Democracy in the ME, or at least that is what we keep getting told.
Different people will tell you different things!
So here's the secret: find a source that tells you what you want to hear-- and keep spreading that POV!
As to your claim that the only thing we hear is that Israel is the only democracy in the middle east I googled it-- and found something different:
According to The Economist Group's Democracy Index 2020 study, Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle East , while Tunisia is the only democracy in North Africa 1 . The Middle Eastern and North African countries with the highest scores in various freedom indices are Israel, Tunisia, Turkey, Lebanon, Morocco, Jordan and Kuwait 1 . Of the five countries that have become a democracy at some point, three have maintained their status as democracies (Iraq, Lebanon, and Tunisia) 2 .
Of course I could've looked further down the page, and found other sources that would tell me something different!
and Egypt who does whatever Israel says
Tell that to the Egyptians-- I'm sure they'd love to hear that!
/sarc
buh-bye bibi...
Iran.
Exactly
There are already two states.
1. The Jewish state (Israel).
2. The Palestinian state (i.e. the area where Palestinians govern it-- i.e. Gaza*).
Yes there's a war going on-- and yes there are "enemy troops" (Israelis) at war in Gaza. But when there were nio Israelis in Gaza, who was governing it? Palestinians! (hamas)
But somehow, it’s all Israel’s fault that the war continues.
Certainly not all Israel's fault, it is the fault of ALL their false religions. Remember the three issues that plague us all, Religion, Bigotry and Greed.
Exactly, atheists are consciousness objectors.
This war isn’t about religion for Israel. Israel is happy to live in peace with neighboring Muslim countries. Muslims serve in the Israeli Knesset. This war is about religion for Hamas, but for Israel, it’s about real estate and the right to exist.
then they should buy it instead of stealing it...
Certainly not all Israel's fault, it is the fault of ALL their false religions.
Israelis have a strong identity-- as Israelis. But religion? It varies. Some have a strong identity as Jews (the religion). many other don't.
I had thopught they were all ultra-religious-- like the ultra orthodox, dressed head to toe in black. The first time I visited the country I was surprised-- the majority of the people I met were not religious at all.
Twenty percent of Israeli citizens are Muslims. But unlike Muslims living in most Muslim countries, Israeli's Muslim citizens get to vote for elected leaders and have rights they wouldn't have in most Arab countries.
I would disagree. Itsabout the right to exist. But many Israelis don't care about having more land.
The current right-wing government does-- but centrist and leftist Israelis don't like their government. They would rather give u the West bank if they could have peace.
They've occupied much more Arab territory in the past, and gave it up for peace.
Many people would agree with you-- compared to the Muslim world-- Israel has too much land!
The Arab world shown in Yellow, Israel in Purple.
Actually the size of Israel isn't accurate-- its actually smaller than the Purple area in that map. (because that map shows Gaza as part of Israel which it is not-- Gaza is a self-governing Moslem country).
Also it shows the West bank as part of Israel-- when actually its status is disputed.
Lebanon and Syria would disagree I am sure. Better avoid asking Jordan and Egypt as well or you might get an earful you really don't want to hear.
.
https://fathomjournal.org/why-dont-the-arabs-of-israel-vote-more/#:~:text=However%2C%20the%20Abraham%20Fund%20report,to%20influence%20national%20decision%2Dmaking .
But thank you for promoting the Israeli myth that Arabs in Israel have any real power.
Really, it is about Israel's right to exist? Are you one of those that believe Israel's existence is really threatened by Hamas and Hezbollah? How much land has Hamas/Hezbollah managed to take and hold from Israel? How many tanks, planes, and military vessels does either have? Hamas took it's best shot on Oct 7th. It was a complete surprise attack. Any real military would have pressed it's advantage and been rolling to Jerusalem. Hamas isn't a real military, not even close. It doesn't have the weaponry, supplies and distribution, or even command structure to take and hold ground- much the less extend an attack. Neither does Hezbollah. Both are terrorist organizations that Israeli actions have had a direct hand in forming and bringing to power. Try asking the Lebanese and Gazans if Hezbollah and Hamas are real militaries and not just terrorists that kill those that don't agree with them.
I would have more sympathy for Israel; but with the way they have treated Palestinians (especially in the West Bank)- they don't deserve it. I have zero sympathy for Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran- none of them care about the Palestinians- only continuing a fight they will never win. They don't care about the collateral damage/destruction/death their actions bring. Maybe one day the PA, which is more concerned about the continued flow of money from the US/Israel to it's coffers, than actually protecting the people under their rule will get what they deserve as well.
The fact that the US is funding Israel and the PA in this never ending shit show in the most dysfunctional sand box on the planet is sickening.
How telling that you think all Arabs are the same people.
Do you think all Asians are the same people?
Do you think all Africans are the same people?
Do you think all Europeans are the same people? (By the way half of Israeli Jews are of European decent- not Arab).
Do you think all South Americans, Central Americans, Americans, and Canadians are the same people?
I mean the ME is tiny as compared to the combined Americas.
Just pick the Palestinians up and plop them anywhere else in the Arab world. It won't cause any problems what-so-ever./S
It's been the homeland of the Jews for 3,000 years.
lots of natives have lost their homelands thru conquest, without any mention in some book of hearsay fables...
Those countries have a history of refusing to recognize Israel and making war on Israel. Some of them still support anti-Israeli terrorist organizations within their borders. By treaty, though, Egypt and Jordan have recognized Israel.
You will find this anywhere in the world. But the crucial point is non-Jews in Israel are not being exterminated and Israel didn’t go to war with Hamas because they’re Muslims. It is literally the stated goal of Hamas to wipe Israel - and Jews generally - from the face of the Earth. It’s all over the Hamas Covenant.
It amazes me that anyone is confused by this.
Just curious-- which of their religions do you consider to be "false'-- and which ones (or which one) do you consider to be the true religion?
Ah, the complexities of the ME, beyond many Westerners to grasp the shaded areas of the history. A while back I did a short series on the different peoples that live in Israel (many are citizens of Israel). Of course the Palestinians, the Druze, the Circassians, and the Bedouins. Each is unique with their culture religion and language, citizens of Israel, and all serve in the IDF. The history of the Bedouins with Israel goes back to the founding of Israel when the Bedouins fought alongside and for Israel. In fact there is a monument, ''The Garden of the Broken Hearts'' on one of the hills of Galilee that honors the Bedouins who fought and died for Israel. They took on the most dangerous of assignments deep behind enemy lines, many did not return.
The largest town in Israel that is predominantly Bedouin is Rahat, by law all town/cities are to have bomb shelters there are very very few in Rahat, much to the consternation of the Bedouins who look at it as they are 2nd class citizens of Israel.
Within the Jewish community are many people of Africa, there are Moroccan Jews, Ethiopian Jews, Somali Jews and from the Balkans, Bosnian, Montenegrin and Macedonian Jews and a very large Kurdish Jewish community.
And yes, there is a two-tier system among the Jewish people, European Jews, African and Balkan Jews.
At the World Jewish Council in the early 1900 there was a proposal to establish a new Jewish state in Africa, the Congo I believe it was and the Brits were strong supporters of this although it never came to be.
Having spent some time in Israel, Jordan and Lebanon over the years it gave me a very good look at the trials and tribulations of the area. I did spend quite a bit of time with the Bedouin people, fascinating their history goes back 30,000 years in one of the most hostile environments on earth.
It is was well worth the time to study the history of the ME and surrounding areas.
Ever heard of antisemitism? It shows up in different ways. and support of those who support EVEN ONE FUCKING BIT those who attack or even just hate the Jews are IMO no better than Eichmann.
Why do you think the government allows Jews to build bomb shelters-- but forbids the Bedouin from building them?
That seems unfair!
Perhaps the number of shelters is based on the numbers of the local population.
There are numerous articles on it, this is just one and yes, it is unfair. As the saying going all men are created equal, some more equal than others.
Israel's Arab community pleads for bomb shelters as war rages
No, sadly that is not the case, Buzz. Read the link I gave Krish. There are thousands of school children that have no protection when the rockets start to fall.
I have to agree with the sentiment indicated in that linked article. The Israeli government needs to do more to provide equal services to ALL its citizens, or it gets damn hard to argue that Israel is not an apartheid state. However, if a bunch of Bedouins go out and pitch their tents somewhere in the desert wilderness they cannot expect the government to go looking for them to connect services to their encampment. Perhaps a little better organization is needed and locations that are more easily connectable.
It's the Israeli government that decides if they are legit towns or not, but with cities like Rahat, there is no excuse not to have the bomb shelters which are required by Israeli law.
Agreed.
Even when it wasn't?
Guess you never heard it takes two to fight?
Oh, as for Jordan and Egypt. Their recognition of Israel was bought and paid for by the US taxpayer. A little fact Israeli apologists tend to leave out. Also Egypt didn't want war with Israel- but Israel had it's sights on Egyptian lands.
What a great neighbor Israel is. I can't understand why they aren't more beloved.
Really? Come again?
So your very, very, very low bar for Israel is that it isn't directly committing genocide? Apartheid is OK, but you draw the line at genocide. No Israel is an equal opportunity apartheid country. If you aren't Jewish and you are on land it deems theirs they are at war with you. Hence the complete blockade on Gaza since 2007; the massive illegal settlements in the Golan Heights and West Bank; and Israeli settlers given free reign to kill any Palestinians they want.
Is as the occupying force in charge of Gaza, West Bank, and Golan Heights has an obligation to protect civilians. To put it simply they are no. Not all Gazans are Hamas- no matter how Israeli apologists want to spin it. Israel is responsible for the safety of Gazan civilians.
It amazes me that anyone doesn't know international law; or thinks Israel isn't subject to it.
My sympathy for Israel is lessening by the day. The only entities I have less sympathy for are Hezbollah, Hamas, and PA.
Yet, here is another perspective...
You're either for the right of Israel to exist, in peace, or against it.
There is no middle ground on this issue.
Me too. I've been saying the same things you did for a while to no avail. My only thought is that since it is so clear and obvious why Jews have no alternative but to defend themselves against the dedication commanded by Islam to murder them, that those who come up with "excuses" are no better than the Nazis who sought to exterminate the Jews. They simply try to hide their antisemitism by supporting those who are dedicated to exterminating the Jews.
Well, you know the olde sayin":
There are no consciousness objectors in foxholes!
No need to ask-- we already know the answer!
When Israel became independent (1948) the four states bordering Israel plus Iraq all attacked Israel with the intent of exterminating the Jews-- to have a judenfrei Middle East.
To summarize-- the Arabs lost the war. And they refused to make peace, refused to recognize Israel's right to exist.
But over time Egypt and Jordan have decided they could trust Israel enough to make peace with Israel-- so they did!
So yes-- we already know the answer-- their actions show it!
But to this day-- since the end of that war in1948-- the other three (Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq-- still refuse to make peace with Israel!)
Please tell us again what the West Bank Palestinians did to earn Israel's spite since before Oct 7; and even more so after Oct 7?
Funny how some people want to consider all Palestinians one people when Hamas or Hezbollah attack Israel; but completely separate entities when Israel does anything against Palestinians in the West Bank. Which was completely ignored by the Western World before Oct 7th; and since Oct 7th been used to justify Israeli actions there.
Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
Ever heard the saying it takes two to fight? The war between Israel and Palestinians has gone on far longer than Oct 7. Neither side is innocent. Only one side gets billions in financial and military aid every year with no strings attached from the US. The other gets a pittance from the US/Israel to keep the Palestinians in the West Bank on a very short leash; and stay out of the way of IDF/settlers. That is unless you count Brandon literally dropping aid packages on the people of Gaza heads; and that completely worthless port he built that aid is now rotting on because it can't be delivered.
How telling that you think all Arabs are the same people.
Do you think all Asians are the same people?
Do you think all Africans are the same people?
Do you think all Europeans are the same people? (By the way half of American Christians are of European decent- not indigenous Americans).
Do you think all South Americans, Central Americans, Americans, and Canadians are the same people?
I mean Gaza is tiny as compared to the combined countries of Africa.
Just pick the Arabs up and plop them anywhere else in the European world. It won't cause any problems what-so-ever./S
The other side gets support from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and others. If that’s who you support, that’s your choice to make.
Israel is a country that is surrounded by countries that want to erase it from the surface of the world. They are wildly outnumbered by genocidal maniacs, and always have been.
In the meantime, people of other ethnicities and religions live freely in Israel. They are part of the government. When there is peace, Israel keeps to itself. When terrorist or neighboring countries move to attack, they defend themselves. In doing so, they take control of land, which they have surrendered multiple times to secure peace treaties. It has not earned them a lasting peace.
Israel has no interest in wiping out other nations, but 2 dozen other countries have that very hope for Israel. I don’t see what is complicated about this.
Israel could do several things better, but you can’t expect them to just ignore the efforts of their neighbors to kill them all.
You know what else gets dropped on them? Leaflets warning of an impending attack. Israel wants to defeat Hamas, not the Palestinian people. So, they do what they can to minimize casualties. Do you think Hamas or Hezbollah has ever done - or would ever do - that? Yeah, right!
I don't know why you wasted your time providing actual facts to a person who has stated that Israel has completely blockaded Gaza since 2007. He ignores the fact that Egypt is part of that accusation, but then Egypt isn't "JOOOISH" eh? What good are facts when a person's opinion totally ignores what was happening up until Oct 7? i.e. the ACTUAL facts of hundreds of trucks of supplies such as food, fuel, medicines and medical equipment, everyday necessities passing through the crossings into Gaza daily, the provision of electricity, gas and water, the thousands of Gazans crossing into Israel daily for jobs that paid them much better than they could get in Gaza, the many Gazans needing more sophisticated medical services (including close relatives of Hamas leaders) allowed to cross the border to access Israel's hospitals and superior medical care. The only thing Israel "blockaded" was the entry of terrorists and weapons and materials that could be assembled into weapons or wartime fortifications, but unfortunately that so-called "blockade" was not able to stop the incendiary kites and balloons, missiles and rockets sent by Hamas and Islamic Jihad from Gaza into Israel. You should not waste your time even BOTHERING to read IGNORANT comments.
Amnesty and Al Jazeera? Why not Stormfront and Mein Kampf?
And, like the Jews, Arab citizens of Israel were also victims of Hamas terrorism on October 7th:
Arab Citizens of Israel Were Not Spared in the Hamas-Led Massacres
The family of Awad Darawsheh spent five agonizing days waiting for news. Mr. Darawsheh, a paramedic in his 20s, had been working at a music festival in southern Israel when Palestinian gunmen stormed in, firing at fleeing attendees and dragging others away as hostages.
On Thursday night, his family received word: Mr. Darawsheh had been shot dead during the attack, said Ashraf Ayoub, who oversaw him in the United Hatzalah emergency medical services organization.
Mr. Darawsheh joined a grim list: He was one of more than 100 killed in what appears to have been one of the worst massacres of the sweeping surprise attack launched by Hamas on Saturday. And his death underscores how the terror did not spare Israel’s Arab citizens.
Do monsters care WHO they murder? The more I see those protesting on behalf of terrorists, those in the UN and ICJ who are supporting the terrorists, those who are REWARDING Hamas' terrorism by supporting their wish for 'from the river to the sea", [deleted,] [✘] including America, did to Dresden in WW2. At least that would have prevented the loss of Israeli soldiers even if it meant sacrificing the hostages - their freedom so far has been a bitter pill to swallow requiring the release of hundreds of convicted terrorists, the women raped and tortured, and so many of them are already dead, probably a lot more than we know.
Impeccable line of logic.
I am not the one that thinks all Arabs are the same people.
I am also not the one that thinks moving people from one geographic area to another won't cause massive problems.
You think Syria and Lebanon have money to support Hezbollah and Hamas?
Lebanon would like nothing more than Hezbollah to disappear. Iran is the one with the money, weapons, and training that keeps Hezbollah in control. Also Israel not allowing the US to sell Lebanon advanced weapons system. Lebanon's military is nothing more than a glorified police force.
.
As for Syria- Assad needs Hezbollah and Iranian support to stay in power. But Syria is in no place to provide Hezbollah with financial or weapons assistance.
Yet Israel is far and away the #1 military power in the ME; no country or militia in the ME can stand against it. Israel helped create Hamas and Hezbollah by their very actions. A fact you continue to ignore. Also, how could they be surrounded by countries that want to erase it from the world when Jordan and Egypt are their bought and paid for US allies?
Does some research- your argument doesn't hold even the slightest water.
Definitely a country that "keeps to itself" when there is peace.
Just ignore the above repeatedly. Israel never has been and never will be at peace. Only their indisputable military might lets them get away with what would be acts of war anywhere else.
Don't tell that to those living in the Golan Heights, Gaza, or West Bank. Think Lebanon might beg to differ as well.
I am trying to decide it you really believe BS you are stating.
Are you trying to state Saudi Arabia and a coalition of Arab states haven't tried to make peace with Israel?
There is just no getting along with those Arabs is there?
Israel isn't even making an effort; so why bother to expect them to do anything. Just keep funding them and the PA. Everything will resolve itself eventually. The battle lines will just change.
Have you followed the war in Gaza at all. Israel tells them to move; and then bombs that area anyways!
There are no safe zones in Gaza. Those leaflets were worthless. Minimalize casualties; what a bad joke. I don't believe Hamas' numbers for dead and wounded; but sure as hell don't believe that Israel gives a shit about Palestinian civilians. The real numbers won't be known until the war is over and rubble is removed.
You want facts? Here are facts.
By the way. Typing in large font and bold doesn't make anything you stated any more correct or important. It doesn't intimidate me either.
Egypt has a closed border with Gaza because it doesn't want Hamas- which Israel helped to bring to power- spilling over into Egypt. Think Israel would tolerate rockets coming into Israel from Egypt? How about just a Hamas presence in Egypt?
Egypt also has a dirty little secret. It has a certain element that it turns a blind eye to that receives money from Iran to build tunnels and transfer weapons and materials that Israel doesn't want Gazans to have.
Here is a complete list of things Israel doesn't want Gazans to have.
Israel also tried to kickout those Gazans in Israel that needed medical attention after Oct 7th.
Yes, Israel did allow a very small number of Gazans to work in Israel before Oct 7. Some 18,000 out of 2.5 million Gazans. A very small drop in a very large bucket.
Can you dispute the facts in the Al Jazeera links I posted?
What problem do you have with Amnesty International? I use their articles to point out the short comings of countries all over the world- including the US.
Not every entity that doesn't share your undying loyalty to Israel is a Nazi.
blah, blah, blah... now speak to the radical religious terrorists within the israeli government, the haredim and all the other ultra nationalists that are aligned with bibi, whose objective is to continue the endless cycle of religious intimidation, revenge, and retribution as a way to attract even more US aid to sustain the yearly financial requirement to fully support those within israeli society that will not work and have exempted themselves from mandatory military service in defense of the country that provides full financial support to them and their families.
my position here seems to be unique. I support the innocent and moderate in the region that wish to live in peace. I want the religious radicals on all sides encouraged and enabled to exterminate each other, and gaza is the perfect vehicle. intern all the radical religious bible thumpers, rug sniffers, and foreskin pruners that cannot and will not live in peace, while their religious enemies still breathe, into gaza until the killing stops and attack any outside faction that attempts to help out the imprisoned combatants with a land, sea, and air kill zone surrounding gaza.
this is an important lesson for those americans that need a demonstration of what rule by radical religious minorities is like.
Ever been to Israel, Ronin2? Rather than what I read I rely on what I've seen with my own eyes, listened to what was said in Isreal by those who said it, and I am not going to say as Pogo did "We have met the enemy, and it is us" but I have met the Muslims in Israel and I have listened to what they told me, "they" including the Muslim doctors and nurses (who were genuinely in tears) in Laniado Hospital in Netanya after I had stood inside the demolished reception room of the Park Hotel a couple of days after the "Passover Massacre". I witnessed a bus bombing in Jerusalem, I have had to run and hide in a bomb shelter on a kibbutz when bomb-bearing kites were flown overhead. I have no reason to doubt my son's story of being knocked out of his bed in Jerusalem when a bomb exploded demolishing the cafe on the main floor of the building in which he was living and tearing the customers to pieces, only by the grace of God not including him where he normally would have been eating breakfast - yes, I didn't see it, but my son does not lie to me and I know him well enough to believe what he tells me. So where have you been in Israel, Ronin, let's hear what YOU have personally witnessed and maybe I'll have reason to give credence to your personal experiences.
Oh, and as to your assumptions as to why I increase the font from 12 point to 14 point when I'm writing, it is so I can read what I am writing a little more easily because at my age my vision is waning, even with glasses. There are actually some members on NT who show the courtesy of increasing the font of their replies to me accordingly. It's not easy to type while I'm holding a magnifying glass.
What it comes down to, Ronin2, is that I disagree with most of what you have to say, and I don't give a damn what media you use for support. ALL the media has turned to shit over the years and Walter Cronkite and Edward R Murrow aren't around any more. I believe what I see with my own eyes.
As much as I have good reason to dislike you, I can't disagree with your comment.
I despise the religious radicals of all 3 abrahamic sects equally, along with their religious sycophants that claim to represent peace and brotherly love while they remain silent as the killing of the innocents continues. their warped versions of religion are destructive businesses and any possible future peace in the middle east involves those religious radicals becoming compost, and by divine coincidence, the sand they're standing on is easy to excavate and it could really use the only redeeming qualities of their fanatical lives, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and the magnesium their otherwise useless corpses would leave behind in the sand as they decompose.
Why do you cut slack to the Hindus and the Buddha's?
AND by the way, I will NEVER take seriously what a person who ignorantly unceasingly insists that Israel has maintained a "complete" blockade of Gaza since 2007, no matter WHAT sources he uses to back up that opinion. Just the same as I won't reply to anyone who continues to childishly call Biden "Brandon" no matter how much I now personally disrespect Biden.
And only one side gets billions in financial and military aid every year with no strings attached from Iran!
Interesting, eh?
That person is either intentionally trying to deceive-- or just ignorant of the facts.
What facts?
Gaza borders two countries-- Israel and Egypt. So even if Israel managed to seal off Gaza so it was "air-tight"--- it wouldn't be effective if Egypt let aid in.
Taht's "fact #1".
Fact #2: Gaza is not self-suffiecient in growing food. So if there was an airtight blockade they's all would've perished long ago.
So where was all the food they had been receiving coming from?
("Food for thought"-- eh?)
IMO, when a person continues his lie even after being corrected, you cannot pay credence to anything he has to say, even if he finds sources that confirm it since sources are all garbage these days anyway. And as well, the person who wrote "blah, blah, blah" should point it at the person who refuses to give up saying what is nothing more than "blah, blah. blah"/
LOL!
Of course not, but their leader is a terrorist.
I'll bet bibi thinks long and hard before getting onto any jet aircraft for flights over large bodies of water...
Since you are trying to keep this piece alive, let me add something meaningful:
Biden decided, without permission, to spend more than $500M building a pier to deliver aid to Gaza. Palestinian terrorists intercepted every ounce of that aid. The US military suffered multiple casualties, which were covered up. That and slowalking Israel is Biden's policy on this war.
oops, some of our cruise missiles accidentally got launched and the patriot missile defense system we gifted bibi didn't recognize them as hostile...
so sorry about those illegal settlements vaporized in the west bank, another tragic accident of war ...
/s
Standard Biden boondoggle. His old boss tried to warn everyone. Some of us already knew.
The Gaza pier blew
And Biden knew
Turk 182
Well, 'this' cannot end until the fate of the hostages are determined. The situation isn't any different than when Iran took Americans hostage in 1979. There can be no hope of peace until the hostages are repatriated alive or dead. Even the dimmest of wits should understand that repatriating the hostages is the lowest possible bar to bring an end to the war.
Once the minimal goal of repatriating the hostages has been achieved, the IDF can withdraw to the Israeli side of the border and await the beginning of the cycle of retaliation. The Palestinians, being the stupid fuckwits they are, will begin firing rockets into Israel again. And Israel can retaliate from the Israeli side of the border with Gaza. That will create a never ending tit for tat cycle of retaliation. So, 'this' ends by never ending. The only thing Israel needs to worry about is defending itself. The future of a Palestinian state is not Israel's problem. In fact, creating a Palestinian state has never been Israel's problem other than as a security threat.
The reality is that Israel is not needed to establish and recognize a Palestinian state. The UN can recognize a Palestinian state anytime someone puts it on the floor for a vote. But here's the problem -- recognizing a Palestinian state means you own it. All these high-minded neoliberal gaslighters are trying to do is shift responsibility for a Palestinian state onto Israel. Israel doesn't need a Palestinian state; Israel needs security assurances. So, the liberal moralizers only need to step up and take responsibility for the actions of the Palestinian state they create. Would the UN vote to condemn the Palestinian state they just created? Will liberal academics protest and demand that a Palestinian state be held accountable for its actions? That exceeds the limit of disbelief.
whatever spares the innocent and puts the most hypocritical religious radicals under the ground the quickest, world wide...
Oh, spare us the sermon of empty platitudes. The aborted may be innocent but they aren't spared. In fact, the aborted innocent have become a commercialized political commodity. Damn the innocence, kill the parasites!
Return the hostages. Bring the terrorists who attacked and killed innocent Israelis to justice. Condemn the Palestinians for dancing the streets over spilled Israeli blood. Why are those unrealistic expectations? The Palestinians have not condemned such uncivilized behavior. In fact the Palestinians openly celebrated the terrorism against Israel so why are they considered innocent? Do the Palestinians not know what they do? Are Palestinians that fucking stupid?
... uh, where did I mention abortion?
These "spare the innocent" also forget that theses same palistenians celebrated on 9-11. Now they are crying because they are feeling the consequences of the actions they celebrated.
They do.
They are.
"whatever spares the innocent" Aren't these your words? There are no humans more innocent than the unborn. If we're going to pick 'n choose who is innocent and who is not then the burden of hypocrisy really can't be avoided.
Denying the unborn their innocence as well as their existence for the sake of self-serving convenience seems all too Palestinian.
What would Muslim Jesus do? The religion of peace does seem to have queer concern for innocence.
A mantra for a new generation ….
Yeah, it used to be sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll. Kids today don't know how good they got it. Sex is free and drugs are legal. And the phony 'get real' crowd wants to ignore that God gave rock 'n roll to you.
(It's kinda weird seeing Kiss without the makeup. Maybe that's too real for the 'get real' crowd.)
It was in another seeded article-- about 1 1/2 weeks ago IIRRC.
(Or maybe it was before that-- maybe 2 weeks ago?)
KISS light … no Ace Frehley
small wonder that the rest of the world paints sane americans with the same broad brush as the maga morons...
Well, which friggin' innocents are YOU talking about? It's easy to toss out catchphrase platitudes like any European liberal. But there's rubber to burn so put in on the road.
Morning...mmmhh..I think you will find the rest of the world really doesn't give a flying fig about American politics..
We just can't believe how..
One.. you tolerate all the crap..
Two... how so many Americans are totally obsessed by it..almost ruling their lives...
All the Americans I have met and worked with were excellent people, sane and some even converted to Vegemite... Can't get any better that that...
Absofuckinglutely...
[✘]
I resent that, we are not sane, never have been and never intend to be, in fact, we put sane people in sanitariums. Remember ''One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"". I loved it when Big Chief threw the toilet through the window and escaped for life. The reason was that instead of a lobotomy they were going to force-feed him Vegemite, and Big Chief said ''Oh Hell No'' and jumped the rez.
This is true, I do not speak with forked tongue.
Oh my, what tribe is he from, looks like he is from the ''Wannabe Tribe'' to me. You can tell by the hair, it's black and a good job on the face paint.
I believe he's from the "Bad Ass Guitarist" tribe
Yes, the Palestinians openly celebrated the terrorism against Israel, JUST THE SAME AS THEY DID OPENLY CELEBRATING THE TERRORISM AGAINST AMERICA ON 9/11. Yes, look at all their cheerleaders around the world, INCLUDING IN AMERICA,[✘]
queer concern?
JESUS WAS GAY?
Peace Be Upon Him!!!!
Indeed.
(You don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows...)
Strewth your rellies in NSW and WA would be appalled..
How can you bag out Vegemite..and you are thinking of being a ridgy didge Aussie..
Fair dinkum, this is more than a koala can bare..🐨
So he's from the BAG Tribe, nice.
LMAO
I doubt even tabasco could help that veggie sludge...
[✘]
Apparently there's a serious problem-- an actual shortage of hot sauce!
Is there a national hot sauce shortage?
(Asking for a friend!)
Morning.. hot sauce shortage?..
No probs, we can fix that..
a unique food that looks the same before and after digestion...
People see Jesus in their own image, don't they? (Is that some sort of self validation?) Queer is as queer does.
not to mention how defective the memories of the willfully ignorant are, and how they think it's all been forgotten...
Unfortunately, social media sites occasionally have that problem: that they attract the dimmest of wits! (Fortunately here on NT we don't have that problem
)
mostly correct ...
Actually they just started up again:
The Israeli military sounded sirens in Tel Aviv for the first time in months on Sunday, warning of possible incoming rockets after Hamas’ military wing announced it had launched a fresh attack on the city.
An NBC News journalist witnessed Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system intercepting at least one rocket.
Earlier, aid trucks entered Gaza through southern Israel as part of a new agreement to bypass the Rafah crossing with Egypt.
How does it end? It is a war, it ends when one side unconditionaly surrenders.
Although it is inevitable that Israel's superior military will eventually win the war, why aren't all those "righteous" nations and organizations like the anti-Semitic United Nations and International Court of Justice who are blaming and demonizing Israel and trying to force it to stop, calling for Hamas to SURRENDER, which would INSTANTLY stop the war, the bloodshed, release the hostages and open all doors to humanitarian aid and start the rebuilding? Can anyone explain it to me, because to me it is damned obvious why Hamas is glorified and supported by protests around the world - WHY? - using the same spelling as I recall seeing on Newsvine - "It's those JOOOOZ!!!"
They can try and spin it anyway they want, it is still antisemitism. Hamas gets a free pass because they are expected to act like barbarians and they are.
Hamas must be wiped off the face of the earth.
And, the sooner the better
[✘]
[✘]
How many badass atheist, internationalist freedom fighters have gotten to the Ukraine?
Right after all the LWNJ antisemite Hamas sucking congress people and protesters go over there to fight with Hamas instead of doing it from a few thousand miles away expecting to be fed because they are poor victims. Or maybe all the LBGTQ whatever stop buy Gaza in the finest rainbow suits to show support for Hamas in person.
but we should wait until the badass xtian nationalist crusaders here can get there first
How many badass atheist, internationalist freedom fighters have gotten to the Ukraine?
I think I see the problem.
The badass xtian nationalist crusaders are spreading themselves too thin!
(Which reduces their effectiveness-- if not their actual visibility!)
What badass xtian nationalist crusaders need to remember-- one thing at a time! There's no rush! Remember: God is on our side!
ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!!!
I have no idea-- heck, that's way above my pay grade!
Maybe we should ask this guy-- he should know!!!
Onward and upward!
Lux et Libertas!
Onward, ever onward...for the true Christian soldier neither rests nor sleeps!
Since we have a fairly good back and forth going, as the seeder of this article I have a few questions to ask of the commentators here.
Who has been to the ME, especially Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Gaza, West Bank or Iran?
Who may have done research on the history of the ME?
Who has a degree in History of the ME either a major or minor?
Who is a dual citizen of the US and Israel or any other country and Israel?
Anyone who has done any of the above please give us your experience, good, bad or indifferent.
Arvo...yes I have been to Israel back in 1985..crickey that seems so long ago now..
I stayed there for 4 weeks and toured from one end of the country to the other.. Australia has WW1 links to Gaza and Palestine especially at Beersheba with the light horse..
I didn't go into Jordan because at the time if you had been to Israel you were barred from entering the country..
I went into Egypt for a week..was only interested in seeing the pyramids and then got out..back into Israel..
Had a ball, felt perfectly safe was by myself but went on a small tour group traveling all through Israel..
Yes the border crossings were abit of a nightmare but had no problems..
At the time there was fighting going on with Lebanon and I was sitting on the beach at Tel Aviv watching the armed helicopters fly up and back which I found rather interesting and you tend to forget a war was going on at the time..
It's not until you shut the motel door you remember as it is not a fire escape map on the back, it was a map to the nearest bomb shelter... plus there were armed soldiers everywhere from out in the middle of the desert and the public would stop give them rides to where ever as they were on leave..or on crowded public buses and just hoped they had the safety on their guns..
There was religious tension at the dome on the rock when I was there and had been stone throwing incidents and also at the wailing wall... soldiers were there in large numbers..
Would I go back to Israel again, absolutely.. Egypt I would pass as nothing else interests me there...
Thank you, shona.
In the past I've traveled a lot--been to all continents except South America. (Well I've never been to the land of the Vegemite Trees-- but is that a continent?)
But I am replying to your comment because it is probably my least favourite country of all I've visited. (I really didn't like the Egyptians...).
But before I am accused of islamophobia, I should add that one of my favourite countries was Morocco! Wonderful people, wonderful culture!
Also really liked Mexico-- been there several times. (But that was also long ago-- hard to believe but it was at a time when drug gangs were pretty much non-existent).
And I fell in love with Paris-- lived there just over a month, attended the Sorbonne. wanted to move there at one point. (but also wanted to live in the U.S.-- at the time I had hopes of becoming wealthy-- having a place in U.S. and a place in Paris.
(Although never wanted to give up my U.S. citizenship, and never had an urge to get French citizenship).
Re: the other (Arab) countries in Kavika's question, I wanted to visit them but at the time,like Shona-- I experienced the fact that having been to Israel they wouldn't have let me in.
P.S; If I could, one of the countries I'd most like to visit is Iran. (Which, BTW, is not an Arab country-- they are Persians)> Their current gov't is horrific and doesn't appeal to me but what does is the people-- the Persian civilization has always fascinated me!)
Indonesia, home to the single largest Muslim population, is a wonderful place to visit.
25 years ago, the country was in danger of splitting up after years of poverty and dictatorial rule. Unlike the Mideast, they not only survived, but thrived and is a stable, democracy with ever expanding wealth.
Great food, people, diversity in all things, it’s a wonderful vacation.
Their biggest problem remains corruption, but they are working on it.
Sounds like an interesting place to visit!
Morning Krishie...yes Australia is a continent...we are the smallest continent but one of the largest countries..
Got the best of both worlds..
No I was not fussed with Egypt.. loved the pyramids as they were totally spectacular but the actual country...was more than relieved when I crossed back into Israel..
... a sand bar set around a big rock.
You said you've been to all continents - so have you ever been to China? I've been to 17 countries, including in all continents except for South and Central America but including a lot of Islands, but not Australia. I too enjoyed Morocco, where I was in Tangier, Tetuan, and a village in the mountains. However, of all the countries I have ever been in, including my own Canada, the most fascinating, the most interesting, the most beautiful, the most overflowing with culture and tradition, has been China.
Sun, sand and surf all to ourselves and our friends.... can't get better than that...
Meanwhile two other countries are stuck with you mob..
Maybe so, but Crocodile Dundee knew how to deal with denizens...
What I said was true, but a bit misleading. (That I had been to all continents except South America). When I realized that a while I found it amusingm that i had not been to South America since its in the same Hemisphere.
Also while its true I've been to Asia, its only one country on that continent (Israel).
The top three countries I'd like to visit (not necessarily in order):
1. France again especially Paris, also other parts I haven't been to especially the South.
2. Yes, China. I've known several Americans who've been there-- all said very positive things. I've also studied a lot of Chinese medicine (Informally-- on my own) and read a little of the ancient history of the country. Also from friends who've been there-- many said the people were amongst the friendliest they've met!
3. Persia! (AKA Iran). The current government is horrendous-- but the people are great! And (like China) the are descended from one of the most amazing ancient empires.
Marrakesh?
I can't remember the name but I think I would have remembered it if it WAS Marrakesh.
Thanks for that information!
I was never sure-- I've heard Australia referred to as a "subcontinent"-- but somehow that doesn't seem to make sense.
I know New Zealand isn't a continent-- so what continent is NZ in? (Asia?)
That was one of the main thigs I wanted to visit, but I didn't stay in Morocco long enough. (And I don't think its actually in the mountains -- of if so more like the foothills?
Years ago I had an aunt who performed in the theatre in Amsterdam. She was a mime (like Chaplin or Marcel Marceau). She went on tour to much of the Dutch-speaking world-- including Indonesia. (Long ago the Netherlands was a major colonial power, so there were many Dutch speaking countries).
Among other places, she performed in Indonesia (this was long ago-- it might even still have been before independence when it was still "The Dutch East Indies"!)
Among other places, she performed in Indonesia (this was long ago-- it might even still have been before independence when it was still "The Dutch East Indies"!)
I remember she liked to cook, foods from many countries she had visited. One of my favourite dishes was called "Nasi Goring". It used a special spice called "Sambal".
I tried to make it myself (I used to be very into cooking-- especially foreign foods). But I could never make it as good as hers.
Sorry, I DID mean the foothills, not the mountains. For some reason I couldn't think of that word - my aging brain I guess.
Well, I think you already know I've been to Israel more than once, Jordon to tour Petra, the West Bank, and I and a couple of friends WALKED to Egypt when we were in Eilat. The last time I was there was 22 years ago. I have written about my experiences and posted photo essays about them on NT previously.
Thanks, Buzz.
I've been to Israel more than once, Jordon to tour Petra, the West Bank, and I and a couple of friends WALKED to Egypt when we were in Eilat.
I almost went to Petra-- sorry I missed it. (Had a choice to go to Egypt or Petra-- decided on Egypt).
And, given the current situation-- he's an interesting story. I also missed a tour of Gaza! (Thinking about it, I wished I had done that).
And, given the current situation-- he's an interesting story. I also missed a tour of Gaza! (Thinking about it, I wished I had done that).
I flew from Israel to Cairo, very short trip by plane. When booking my trip, it was suggested I return by tourist bus-- north from Cairo to the Meditteranean, then East on coastal road to Egypt-Gaza border (Rafah) and sighting -seeing in Gaza, then bus from Gaza border back to Israel.
At the time Gaza was occupied by Israel. And it was a very propserous area. There were settlements, small towns, and a lot of commerce.IIRC there were luxury car dealerships in in Gaza. And very prosperous greenhouses on a large scale, exporting flowers and other products around the world.
Large luxurious homes of the wealthy-- yes, including wealthy Arabs. And luxurious resorts on the sea.
The average Palestinian was pretty well off-- many worked in the settlements and received much better wages than they would've gotten over the border in Egypt!
Petra was actually quite interesting, but what I remember most about it was the young Jordanian kid entrepreneurs who gathered up small rocks from the ground, put them on a table and sold them as souvenirs to the tourists (who could, of course, have picked up the very same rocks from off the ground themselves).
Thanks to UNRWA and Hamas THEY BLEW IT - they could be the stupidest people in the world. Those magnificent greenhouses, many donated by Bill Gates or his foundation were demolished by those ignorant Gazans when the Jews were forcibly vacated from Gaza by the IDF.
wait till you see what happens to the rest of the illegal settlements that aren't abandoned intact...
I don't understand the context of your comment. Who ever said the Jews were living illegally in Gaza?
Which settlements are you referring to? There are no settlements anymore in Gaza-- hasn't been since the Jews all left (2005).
They are all in the West Bank and there are more and more every day with the blessing of Netanyahu and the IDF.
I was aware of that-- actually I was asking devangelical because I was wondering what he was thinking of.
Either Dev's comment was an off topic deflection about the West Bank, or he won't answer you because he has no answer.
I'm thinking 66K draft dodging haredim being marched into gaza to defend the country that fully subsidizes their theocratic lifestyle and agenda would be interesting...
Sadly, there was a ''huge mistake'' when Israel bombed a DP area and 45 were killed and many more wounded.
Only a matter of time. In my view Israel appears to have gone above and beyond to minimize such events. Some would say to the advantage of Hamas.
I would say that!
I would said that of all the people (& countries) that are helping Hamas, there are two that are currently helping Hamas the most: Iran and Israel.
(The good news is that public opinion in Israel is turning against Netanyahu-- the bad news is that its not happening more quickly.)
You forgot third place. The USA. Hamas is putting the five finger discount on much of the humanitarian aid we are sending.
Big time.
I just saw this on the news that that "pier" or dock, whatever its called is out of service:
U.S. aid deliveries to Gaza by sea suspended after damage to temporary pier
TEL AVIV — The United States military has been forced to suspend aid deliveries into the Gaza Strip by sea after its temporary pier system off Gaza's coast suffered damage in bad weather, a United Nations official, a U.S. official and an Israeli official told NBC News.
The damage was to a causeway that is attached to the beach in Gaza, the officials said. Aid is shuttled onto the causeway by small boats after being initially unloaded on the massive floating dock.
An American service member also remains in critical condition in an Israeli hospital after suffering noncombat injuries on the pier last week, a U.S. defense official said. Two other service members suffered minor injuries.
they put jarheads on navy ships to keep the squids from falling off. maybe they should put a few on the pier... /s
In agree-- it is sad. To say the least.
So many "huge mistakes" happen in wartime., For example, as I imagine you know. in WWII there was The Fire Bombing of Dresden:
On the evening of February 13, 1945, a series of Allied firebombing raids begins against the German city of Dresden , reducing the “Florence of the Elbe” to rubble and flames, and killing roughly 25,000 people.
Strange as it may seem, that one killed even more civilians than this one in in Gaza.(Not that any deaths of civilians are justifiable).
And as far as I know The Firebombing of Dresden didn't result in large demonstrations across American (or British!) campuses.
Strange, eh?
Strange as it may seem, that one killed even more civilians than this one in in Gaza.(Not that any deaths of civilians are justifiable).
Actually I'm not generally in favor of killing soldiers either (In fact in the 60's I was a typical "peacenik"-- demonstrating against the War in Vietnam.)
Anyone remember that one?
Note to Buzz: I know you can't view vidoe on YouTube, so here's the info: This is that famous Country Joes and the Fish Song, "I Think I'm Fixin' to Die" rag. I believe it was first played at Woodstock.
Bombing of Tokyo , (March 9–10, 1945), firebombing raid (codenamed “Operation Meetinghouse”) by the United States on the capital of Japan during the final stages of World War II , often cited as one of the most destructive acts of war in history, more destructive than the bombing of Dresden , Hiroshima , or Nagasaki . Although the precise death toll is unknown, conservative estimates suggest that the firestorm caused by incendiary bombs killed at least 80,000 people, and likely more than 100,000, in a single night; some one million people were left homeless. The Japanese later called this the “Night of the Black Snow.”
I know the song well. I played it many times in my home back then, especially when my draft dodger friends were over for a toque.
Were you in Canada or the U.S. back then?
It was before I was married, when I was the senior partner of a law firm in Toronto and owned my own home there, but was a weekend hippie as well. I didn't marry until I was 35 y.o.
The reason I asked was because you mentioned "draft dodger friends". I remember that during the Viet-Nam War, many Americans crossed the border into Canada to avoid the draft.
I was the senior partner of a law firm in Toronto
I've heard it takes a long time from when you are first hired by a law firm 'till you become a partner? How long does it usually take?
(I had vocational counseling in Jr High School and took aptitude tests-- one of the top recomendations was that I go into law. (But I wanted to become a Scientist and do research). I probably would've made a god lawyer-- when I want to my mind works like that of a lawyer.
Interestingly, over the years I've had a fair number of lawyer friends. I also dated a lawyer for a while....
Time to become a partner is an absolute variable - depends on the number of years people have been lawyers, their experience, their competence, their value generally (such as being a rainmaker) and the combination of people who form the firm. I had friends who followed me and wanted to be with me in practice.
I think I told you previously that I had an aptitude test later in life, and it indicated I was best suited to be a farmer. There have been times when I wished it had been my original and permanent lifestyle. But I'm partway there now - I married a farmer's daughter who was brought up on a farm, and she is presently growing lots of great veggies on a plot staked out within walking distance of where we live.
Many people feel that dropping the bomb on Hiroshima-- and Nagasaki-- was also a "huge mistake". Obviously a lot of Japanese civilians were murdered. I used to think that two-- I approved of attacks on Japanese military targets-- but bombing those two cities was a horrendous mistake.
Incidentally I finally researched it, and changed my mind--- probably not a huge mistake at all... I'm not really interested in explaining what I discovered.
(Let's face it--- War is Hell!
)
The ''huge mistake'' was Israel bombing an area that they said was a mistake.
As I have watched the world turn against Israel since Oct 7, now most of it demanding that the Palestinians be rewarded for terrorism, I'm beginning to think that the "big mistake" that Israel made is NOT CARPET-BOMBING ALL OF GAZA ON OCT 8. Yes, it would have cost innocent lives, and yes, it would have meant the death of the hostages, but it would have prevented the deaths of the IDF soldiers since that time, the release of hudreds of terrorists from Israel prisons, the Houthie blockading the Red Sea, the continuous rain of missiles from the Hezbollah, the rapes and torturing of the hostages, notwithstanding it might not have ended the continuous anti-government protests on the streets in Israel, the pain suffered among the families of the hostages, and what difference would it have made for those in the rest of the world who now are crucifying Israel and rewarding the terrorists, like the United Nations, the International Court of Justice and its prosecutors are doing - it would be no different, no better or worse if such had happened than it is now. BUT IT WOULD HAVE ENDED HAMAS AND ISLAMIC JIHAD IN GAZA IMMEDIATELY. Down the road, does anyone even THINK about the Dresden carpetbombing, the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the murdering of 100,000 civilians in Tokyo? No, they justify it. After all, they stopped the war, they saved the lives of others who would die. Well, in all honestiy, who wants to argue about that? An army made up of civilized humans and not monsters would have surrendered by now to stop the bloodshed, but not Hamas. Maybe Israel should have just done what was necessary to stop the war immediately - no humanitarian aid crisis to blame on Israel, no starving civilians to blame on Israel, no screaming out fictional multiples of the actual number of children's and women's deaths to blame on Israel, no more UNRWA teachers training Gazan children to hate Israel and pray for "From the river to the sea", and hey, maybe it might not have become such an issue for an American election.
Actually there'd probably be no difference if the israelis leveled Gaza-- or if they stopped all fighting, withdrew all forces, and gave Hamas all the nland from the river to the sea. And beyond!
The demonstrations vs Israel would continue, Hamas would still keep firing rockets at Israeli civilian targets...
If they gave Hamas "From the river to the sea", what Israeli targets would there be? Hey, that rhymes, so maybe it's true. I think though that people demonstrating against a non-existent Israel would be like demonstrating against the lost continent of Atlantis, would it not? The people might have to express their innate antisemitism in some other ways, maybe restore and start operating the Nazi death camps again? Maybe a new world-wide "Spanish Inquisition"? With its history in that regard it figures that Spain would be a country that would stab Israel in the back these days.
I had read an article that Spain, Ireland, and Norway had just recognized a Palestinian state.
But they are not that well informed because there was this part;
WHAT DID IRELAND, NORWAY SPAIN ANNOUNCE?
The three countries recognised a Palestinian state with its borders to be demarcated as they were prior to 1967, with Jerusalem as the capital of both Israel and Palestine.
Prior to 1967 The West bak was part of Jordan (they annexed it in 1950-- before that Jordan merely 'occupied" the West bank.)
The Arabs will never accept that-- their unyielding position is that Jerusalem be under Arab control and not dhared (or divided) between Arabs and Israel.
Isn't there an expression: "You can't fix stupid"?
I've been kind of hoping that either a Houthie drone bomb or a missile sent by Hamas would find its way to demolishing the Al Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount (that happens to be the ruins of the Temple of David - wasn't David Jewish?). The Al Aqsa Mosque is the only Islamic "Holy Site" that is NOT MENTIONED IN THE KORAN. It's being a "holy site" is just YET ANOTHER of the lies told to and by the Muslims, sort of like the "Israeli" Islamic Jihad bomb that misfired and hit the Gaza Hospital, or the TWICE the number of actual deaths announced by the Hamas Medical staff - They're really good at lying, but they're successful at it because look at all the people, SO MANY PEOPLE, who believe them.
Of course, if Iran were to nuke Israel, they would demolish their "Holy Islamic Al Aqsa Mosque" and earn the outrage of the rest of the world's Islamic "true believers" of the lie. Allah might then punish them and prevent any of them from being able to deflower their 72 virgins and sojourn forever more in "The Garden of Allah" as a reward for killing all the Jews in Israel (and a lot of other people besides, even in the West Bank, Gaza, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon).
There was also a variation of that:
There's no cure for 'stuck on stupid'
So, what is to be done to stop the fighting and killing? You cannot destroy Hamas or any terrorist organization, it's an ideology, period.
Unless both sides come to the understanding that neither will ''win the war'' we'll see this same situation 20, 50, 100 years from now. The Palestinians have to denounce Hamas and all other terrorist organizations and set themselves on a path to freedom from terrorism, (much easier said than done) Israel must play their part and they can start with stopping the illegal settlements in the West Bank. I know the argument is that Israel has agreed to this many times and the Palestinians have not, that was the past, there has never been a killing spree like we've seen by Hamas and Israel in the all past wars with no end in sight. Hamas and the damn terrorist organizations need the leadership to put their people first and not as a subservient group with little future.
A once great warrior and statesman once said with freedom only a few miles away, and one of the great fighting retreats with freedom close by, he knew that they would not make it to the promised land and made the famous quote,
"I will fight no more forever''....
One can only hope that the current leaders follow this course.
"So, what is to be done to stop the fighting and killing?"
What do I think? There are only 2 possibilities:
1. Hamas can surrender (not likely)
2. Israel kills the last standing Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants (more likely)
Not possible and if it was then what about Hezbollah et al?
Since Israel can't tell the difference between a Hamas member and an regular Palestinian, are you advocating the extermination of a whole people here?
Do you think that Hamas should get a pass since they've chosen to obscure their identification and fail to make a visual distinction between combatants and civilians.
I accept the fact that it is your opinion that it is not possible, and I know that your opinion is based on the fact that an ideology will not die. I thought that the 1000 Year Third Reich was an ideology....wasn't it?
As for Hezbollah, once Hamas is done, they're next.
Well, I'm not an evil one, but it's not Israel's fault that civilians are being killed because Hamas hides among them and uses them as human shields. Has anyone protested that Hamas started this war, that their hiding among the civilians, using hospitals, schools, mosques, UN facilities as their bases and hiding places for weapons, using civilians as human shields just might be causing a lot of civilian deaths? Why have we not heard ONE FUCKING PEEP OUT OF ANYBODY ABOUT THAT???? All we hear about are how many children and women are being slaughtered by those "fucking joooz".
It's Israelis on the other end of that gun... As I've said many, many times - Israel has the absolute right to protect and defend it's citizens. When it air bombs and rolls tanks it's long past defense and now on offense.
Again, since one can't tell the difference from a Hamas terrorist and a civilian you seem to be advocating a "kill them all and let Allah sort them out" offensive. I guess you are okay that children and women are being slaughtered as long as they aren't Jews. You can blame it on Hamas and your conscience is clear. All I'm saying is there are no winners here, but the real losers are those dying for being stuck between the two groups.
There are more than a few Jewish people that aren't so comfortable with how Israel is "defending" it's people.
in the meantime, who's going to permanently deal with the radical religious ultra nationalists in israel?
Seems to me you feel that Israel is just murdering every person they see in Gaza. If you really think that is happening then perhaps you should go out and join one of the university anti-Israel protests. Maybe my personal experiences in Israel have had some effect on my attitude, and I assume you've not had similar experiences in Israel. However one doesn't have to have experiences in Israel to feel the way I do. I recall reading that the Governor of New York once said that if Canada were to fire missiles at the USA, there would be no more Canada. But I guess that it would take a lot more than 9/11 to get you to feel the same.
Yes, it is and it is still alive world wide, and it was based on white/Aryan supremacy, and with all of the white nationalist groups active, it still hasn't died.
A lesson more should learn and understand.
How would I know? I've made it clear over and over that even for personal reasons I have absolutely no love for the "radical religious ultra nationalists in israel" or anywhere, but it has always been my opinion that lands conquered by a defending nation from an attacking nation in a war started by the attacking nation should become the sovereign lands of the defending nation.
Well, then Jew hatred is an ideology as well, and IMO it is universal and eternal and is so well displayed all around the world these days.
I didn't say that. I said they are no longer defending, but launching an offensive. I asked you if that was what you were suggesting they do.
Interesting... You also seem to think that if one is pro-Palestinian they must be anti-Israeli. It may be the case for some, but everyone. I think most people are like me and just want peace. I've seem several pro-peace marches by Jews in Israel.
Again this is NOT really about Israel, but about human rights. I support the rights of Israelis and Palestinians equally. Someday they WILL have to learn to live with each other in peace.
That would be a stupid thing to say, and an even stupider stance for the US to take. I apposed the miliary use in the Middle East when Bush, Jr did it. Again that didn't make the US safer.
What I suggested is that if Israel had carpet-bombed Gaza on Oct 8 it would have had no more than the same effect as far as the world's attitude about Israel is today when the IDF is doing its best to preserve civilian life in circumstances much different than they were in WW2 where the enemy did NOT hide among the civilians or use them as human shields or make use of civilian facilities for their bases and weapons. Hardly a peep back then - Israel is being damned to hell for doing much kinder and less today. Anyone would have to have an IQ less than 50 to not know why.
I didn't dream that statement about "no more Canada" and I have a pretty good memory for things like that that are hard to believe someone would ever say, but I also know that it was withdrawn almost immediately and there is no way it can be confirmed now.