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The DNC Day 2 and the Ode to hate.

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  vic-eldred  •  3 months ago  •  149 comments

The DNC Day 2 and the Ode to hate.
“His limited, narrow view of world made him feel threatened by the existence of two hard working, highly-educated, successful people, who happened to be black,” Michelle Obama said of Trump. “Who’s going to tell him the job he’s currently seeking might just be one of those black jobs.”


For anyone paying attention to the DNC, it is quite clear what gets that crowd pumped up. It is not love or empathy or "hope & change." It is hatred and retribution. Simply look at what gets the biggest applause, and it is always the nastiest stuff. On day 1, which was supposed to be about Joe Biden, the various speakers mentioned Donald Trump 134 times, the economy 38 times, the border 8 times and crime 6 times. On the same night, the Governor of Kentucky wished rape on the family of JD Vance when talking about abortion. Incidentally, one can argue for a woman's right to choose an abortion, but on that night, it was celebrated. We aren't hearing much about issues or policies. We are hearing a lot of hate for their opponents.


Last night was another case in point. It was the night when arguably the last man many democrats actually voted for, rather than against someone, was to introduce Kamala Harris as the nominee. He happens to be our best political speaker, and I even like to hear the way he delivers a speech. He didn't come alone. He came with his equally popular wife. They delivered back-to-back speeches. And it was she who gave a racially charged speech that got the biggest applause.

21themorning-nl-Obama-vqtl-jumbo.jpg

She said that Trump would attempt to distort Harris’s “truth,” just as she said Trump tried to make people fear her and her husband when they were in office.

“His limited, narrow view of world made him feel threatened by the existence of two hard working, highly-educated, successful people, who happened to be black,” Michelle Obama said of Trump. “Who’s going to tell him the job he’s currently seeking might just be one of those black jobs.”

Obama Tries to Resurrect ’08 Magic for Kamala Harris in Convention Speech (msn.com)



Earlier in the night, the self-described Socialist Bernie Sanders’s criticized billionaires; the speaker who followed him, Gov. JB Pritzker of Illinois, is one. Stephanie Grisham, the former Trump press secretary who quit a White House job on Jan. 6, endorsed Harris and said Trump “has no empathy, no morals and no fidelity to the truth.”

Harris and Walz were notably nearly 100 miles away from the DNC during Obama's speech, holding a rally in Milwaukee instead. Fox News was told the plan for Harris and Walz to be away from the DNC on Tuesday came together to avoid the optics of Harris appearing alongside one of the figures Biden views as responsible for helping end his re-election bid. 

Obama lauds 'brother' Biden at DNC weeks after reported role ousting him for Kamala Harris | Fox News



How can they be the change agents if they represent the party in power for the past 3 and a half years?

What happened to "joy?"



In other news:

According to a new report from the Inspector General for the Department of Homeland Security, 32,000 unaccompanied migrant children who were released by the Department of Health and Human Services cannot be located.

Israeli and Hamas officials have downplayed the idea that a cease-fire deal is imminent, saying mediators have yet to resolve major disputes.

To meet their need for troops in Ukraine, Russian authorities have crossed borders to find deserters and bolstered a campaign to punish draft dodgers, The Wall Street Journal reports.

Biden approved a classified plan to guard against nuclear threats from China, Russia and North Korea.

Matt Gaetz, the Florida Republican who helped unseat Kevin McCarthy as House speaker, easily beat a McCarthy backed primary challenger.

China and the Philippines traded blame after their ships collided in a disputed area of the south China sea.


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    3 months ago

Good morning.

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 The Democrats are offering free abortions and vasectomies at their convention in Chicago.

They have become the party of abortion.
 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    3 months ago

it's been 1 month since the trump campaign got the rug pulled out from under them, and still no coherent response...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1    3 months ago

Imagine if the Republicans suddenly switched candidates like the dems did?

Of course, the media always helps:

GVgZlXRXAAAV3dJ?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.1.2  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    3 months ago

They gop has a chance, unlikely, if gop nominates Liz Cheney! 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @1.1.2    3 months ago

It's going to be a lot different for Harris after Labor Day.

Enjoy all the nasty rhetoric until then.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.4  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.3    3 months ago
It's going to be a lot different for Harris after Labor Day.

it sure is, right after harris neuters trump on network television in their debate, and then convicted felon trump gets sentenced...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.4    3 months ago

I think every campaign consultant has learned one thing about debates this year.

Rule 1 going forward has to be NO DEBATE BEFORE A CONVENTION.

As for the ABC debate, I still think Trump should have negotiated that Harris gets one debate with her rules & her network and Trump should get one debate with his rules & his network.

There is no way Harris is going into that debate without a lot of help.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.6  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.5    3 months ago
Harris gets one debate with her rules & her network and Trump should get one debate with his rules & his network

prove that harris set the rules for the previously scheduled debate and the chosen network. almost every rwnj media outlet has zero credibility outside the maga bubble after the last election. why is that, vic? 

There is no way Harris is going into that debate without a lot of help.

experienced prosecutor and california AG versus a liar, repeat offender, and convicted felon...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.6    3 months ago
prove that harris set the rules for the previously scheduled debate and the chosen network. almost every rwnj media outlet has zero credibility outside the maga bubble after the last election. why is that, vic? 

The Biden debate was arranged by the Biden campaign. It was their rules and their network.

Four reasons Biden wants to control debate rules - Washington Examiner

Everyone should know that, but as usual I BACK IT UP.



experienced prosecutor and california AG 

She is not trusted to speak without a script by her own campaign. In a month's time since being awarded the democrat nomination, she hasn't done a single interview, and it is very unlikely she will before the election.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.8  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.7    3 months ago
she hasn't done a single interview, and it is very unlikely she will before the election

there's no need to hand the opposition more ammunition for their dumb ass candidate to shoot his feet with...

just let him run the worn out wheels off his victimhood campaign...

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.9  JohnRussell  replied to  devangelical @1.1.8    3 months ago

Half way normal Republicans (I dont think there are any of them that are more than half way normal anymore)  have been begging Trump to "change". Of course any change he actually makes will be for the worse. They are all trapped like rats. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.10  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    3 months ago

Trump's campaign is all negative whereas Harris' campaign is net positive.  

Trump is also a childish, vindictive asshole.   

Those numbers are way to close given the profound differences between the two campaigns.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    3 months ago

Looks even-handed, eh?

Kind of like how niw the WashPo is admitting that the WH lied about Biden's condition but stopped short of admitting that they played a role in that crap, too.

We both know had it been reversed, liberals would be losing their ever-loving minds.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
1.2  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    3 months ago

So your rebuttal to the convention is "Waaaaahhhhh"?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Thomas @1.2    3 months ago
So your rebuttal to the convention is "Waaaaahhhhh"?

Not even a single "Waaaaaahhhhh" in his entire post.

So your rebuttal to his post is something he didn't even mention?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.3  bugsy  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    3 months ago

You know, I am at the point where if every leftist wants to abort their child, then go ahead and do it. 
What that means is there will be far less blue haired freaks and men pretending to be women in the future.

i think we would all be better for it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.1  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @1.3    3 months ago
I am at the point where if every leftist wants to abort their child, then go ahead and do it. 

Freedom to abort is different from having a desire to gratuitously abort.   The desire is to have government NOT stand in the way of making personal decisions about their bodies, their health, and their family planning.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.3.2  devangelical  replied to  bugsy @1.3    3 months ago
there will be far less blue haired freaks and men pretending to be women in the future

I don't think forced birth laws applied to victims of rape and incest in mostly southern states is a very good idea.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.3.3  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.1    3 months ago

My point stands as is. I don’t need anyone explaining anything else to me.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.3.4  bugsy  replied to  devangelical @1.3.2    3 months ago

How about providing TRUE links to thise claims of ‘forced birth’ and those words in whatever you make up.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.5  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @1.3.3    3 months ago

Irrelevant.   If you make a ridiculous comment it will be challenged.   Or, in some cases, information will be provided if appropriate.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.6  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.3.2    3 months ago
I don't think forced birth laws applied to victims of rape and incest in mostly southern states is a very good idea.

Must be why no state allows forced births.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.7  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @1.3.4    3 months ago

I think if it could be done, it would have been done.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.3.8  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.5    3 months ago

Irrelevant. 

Only those who lack coherent rebuttals.

If you make a ridiculous comment it will be challenged.   Or, in some cases, information will be provided if appropriate.

But not in this case.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2  Hal A. Lujah    3 months ago

Simply look at what gets the biggest applause, and it is always the nastiest stuff.

Yes, Trump and Vance are repulsive human beings who are the standard bearers for a party that has gone in a repulsive direction.  They represent the nastiest stuff, for sure.  It is natural for their opponents to emphasize what is so obvious.  Do you think they should pretend they are not running against a party of ogres?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2    3 months ago

I think you made my point.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1    3 months ago

So you do think that they should pretend they are running against normal people.  Then they would be liars.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.1    3 months ago

I stated what I think. Michelle Obama made some nasty racially charged comments and that got the biggest applause from that crowd.

The party seems to be mired in hate for one man and that's all.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.2    3 months ago

What are black jobs, Vic?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.3    3 months ago

Blacks are not confined to certain jobs.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.3    3 months ago

Ask Michelle...............

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.5    3 months ago

I think some are trying to twist the fact that illegal migrants are taking certain jobs from Americans.

Oddly enough, that used to be a complaint of the democrat party.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.7  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.6    3 months ago

Fox Propaganda! original

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @2.1.7    3 months ago

Just like Joe Biden deciding on his own to quit.

I once asked a highly educated person why Kamala Harris hadn't done an interview in all this time since she was picked to replace Biden.

He said he "didn't know."

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.9  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.4    3 months ago

Yet DonOLD Trump is warning that black jobs are threatened by law breaking foreigners who cannot even speak English.  How do you not hear that dog whistle?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.9    3 months ago

Which is far different than saying certain jobs are for blacks.

How did you miss the twisting of his meaning?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.2    3 months ago

Ever heard of birtherism?  Let's just all forget that because you liked Trump's policies?  If there is anyone in this country who should have a grudge against Trump it is the Obamas.  You should be happy they dont attack Trump more often. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.12  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.11    3 months ago
Ever heard of birtherism? 

How many Presidential candidates have had their citizenship questioned?

How many of them were white?

Stop pretending that it's racial.


 Let's just all forget that because you liked Trump's policies? 

Yes, let's do that.


If there is anyone in this country who should have a grudge against Trump it is the Obamas. 

Really? Hillary Clinton's campaign was the first to question Obama's birthplace, yet Obama gave her the green light over Biden in 2016, so I guess Obama wasn't as offended by it as you seem to think.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.13  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.10    3 months ago

What he said was such a wildly ill-advised comment, no matter how it is interpreted.  Just imagine that level of communication on a global stage again.  He is a massive embarrassment for this country and proves it nearly every time he opens his mouth.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.13    3 months ago
What he said was such a wildly ill-advised comment,

Why would that be?

Is it offensive to say that the jobs most vulnerable to illegal immigration are those held by minorities?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.15  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @2.1.7    3 months ago

This was my favorite protest pic:

GVc9RO_XsAAF28y?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.16  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.15    3 months ago

Butt, you should see her husband...

original

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.17  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @2.1.16    3 months ago

Michelle upon arrival:

GVZEAFNaMAIYqw3?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.1.18  Greg Jones  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.1    3 months ago

What's normal about Harris and Walz?  They represent a party of hate, anger, and intolerance.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.19  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.17    3 months ago

I encourage you to continue demeaning all black women...

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.1.20  Greg Jones  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.15    3 months ago

Ewww!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.21  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @2.1.19    3 months ago

I thought I was following the theme of your meme

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.22  JBB  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.18    3 months ago

All America is seeing the genuine love between the Biden, Harris and Walz families as opposed to Trump's fakeass marriage!

original

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.23  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @2.1.22    3 months ago

GVbnj1ZaMAI-AQa?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.24  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.23    3 months ago

Let me encourage you to continue demeaning women's looks!

Do you look like Brad Pitt? Trump? Vance resembles Madonna.

original

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.25  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @2.1.24    3 months ago

You introduced memes on "Weirdness."

You don't like when others do it?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.26  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JBB @2.1.22    3 months ago

256

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.27  JBB  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.26    3 months ago

original

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.28  bugsy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.9    3 months ago

‘Yet DonOLD Trump is warning that black jobs are threatened by law breaking foreigners who cannot even speak English.  How do you not hear that dog whistle?’

Why is it only the left that hears these ‘dog whistles’?

BTW……he is right. You should agree with him or do you think it is Ok to take jobs from black Americans?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.29  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @2.1.28    3 months ago

You do not recognize the racism in Trump's comment?

In his bigoted worldview, 'black jobs' are low-paying, low-skill jobs that can be easily taken by illegals who are desperate for an income.   

Do you recognize the racism??

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.30  devangelical  replied to  bugsy @2.1.28    3 months ago
do you think it is Ok to take jobs from black Americans?

maga is about to find out the answer to that question. it's looking like trump will lose to a mixed race black woman. just the psychological pressure of that realization, the spectacle of appearing in a televised debate against an experienced prosecutor, in addition to the very real possibility of doing prison time in the near future, will cause him to become progressively more unhinged and unrestrained in public.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.31  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.29    3 months ago

You do recognize he is a politician and he panders to certain areas and races of the country just like all politicians. 
There was nothing racist about that comment. If anyone was truly offended then there would be substantial outrage feom those that matter. 
Anonymous posters on a little knownnsite are not those people.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.32  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @2.1.31    3 months ago
You do recognize he is a politician and he panders to certain areas and races of the country just like all politicians. 

Explain how a racist remark is pandering.

There was nothing racist about that comment. 

Un-fucking-believable.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.33  bugsy  replied to  devangelical @2.1.30    3 months ago

She is not black nor is the mixed race black.

Her own bios when she first started running for office said she is Jamaican/Indian. 
Or is she pandering to blacks by claiming now she is half black?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.34  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.32    3 months ago

Explain how a racist remark is pandering.

OK how about Hillary telling a black crowd she carries a bottle of hot sauce everywhere she goes. No different.

Un-fucking-believable.

only to those that see race in everything

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2    3 months ago

This is getting stranger and stranger. Donald Trump tried to dishonestly de-legitimatize the sitting presidency of one of these two black people (which would obviously effect the life of the other) and we are supposed to have sympathy for him?

What in the world is wrong with these Trump people?  

It long ago stopped being only about Trump. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2    3 months ago
It long ago stopped being only about Trump. 

That is my point in a nutshell. Many democrats simply want to punish Trump and his followers.

It isn't about policy or democracy or anything else.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.1    3 months ago

Trump is not mentally, ethically or morally fit to hold office.  Is there something about that sentence you dont understand ? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.2    3 months ago

I don't want to give away Friday's title to my column, but this convention is turning into the triumph of the woke!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.1    3 months ago

I'd describe it more like wanting them to go away , forever. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.4    3 months ago

"Most" of the democrat party only cares about stopping Trump and nothing else and it is becoming clear to everyone.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.2.6  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.5    3 months ago

That is not true...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @2.2.6    3 months ago

You really liked Clinton, Biden and Harris?

You were voting for them?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.2.8  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.7    3 months ago

Yes, for Democrats against lying cheating no good goppers...

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
2.2.9  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.1    3 months ago
Many democrats simply want to punish Trump and his followers.

It isn't about policy or democracy or anything else

No. I want to punish Trump for the mockery he made of the Presidency and the Presidential Oath and the criminal activities he committed. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.10  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.5    3 months ago
"Most" of the democrat party only cares about stopping Trump and nothing else and it is becoming clear to everyone.

Without a doubt.

Biden's whole campaign was "Not Trump" and Harris will probably follow suit because if she starts talking about policy, and a reporter manages to get a question in, she will sound like a freaking idiot.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3  Kavika     3 months ago

So trump gets a taste of his own medicine and the whining starts from the MAGA followers. 
Hilairous.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @3    3 months ago

There is a reason so many democrat candidates resort to nasty attacks.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    3 months ago

Indeed, they are following your bigoted leader example and the whining from the MAGA cult starts right on schedule.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @3.1.1    3 months ago

They are following his example?

I though character mattered?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.3  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.2    3 months ago

A Trump follower talking about character is hilarious.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @3.1.3    3 months ago

Suddenly character doesn't matter anymore.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.5  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.4    3 months ago

When did Trump's utter lack of character ever matter to MAGA?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @3.1.5    3 months ago

You believe that Harris had another engagement on the night Barack Obama was going to introduce her as the democrat presidential nominee.

You really believe that was the reason she wasn't there?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.7  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.2    3 months ago
I though character mattered?

not to maga, it never has ...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @3.1.7    3 months ago

We never had Presidents with character issues?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.9  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.8    3 months ago
We never had Presidents with character issus?

LMAO, OMG the irony of that comment.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @3.1.9    3 months ago

Let's see.....JFK, Richard Nixon and of course Bill Clinton.  And what did democrats teach us about Clinton?   

It was to separate the performance in office from character.

So, yes, there is irony.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.11  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.10    3 months ago
Let's see.....JFK

trump should have stood still at his butler rally if he really wanted to be compared to JFK...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.12  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @3.1.11    3 months ago

Wishing again?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.13  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.12    3 months ago

original original MAGA Weirdos give all of America, "Snakes In Our Boots" cringe!

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
3.1.14  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.6    3 months ago
You believe that Harris had another engagement on the night Barack Obama was going to introduce her as the democrat presidential nominee.

You really believe that was the reason she wasn't there?

No. She wasn't there because she was at another rally only 80 miles away with massive crowd size... LOL

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.15  JBB  replied to  Thomas @3.1.14    3 months ago

Nobody has been able to figure out where he got this bull...

Even Q isn't trying to pass this krazyass conspiracy theory!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.16  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.10    3 months ago
It was to separate the performance in office from character.

Again you attempt to categorize to blur the details.

  • If Trump had merely had a blowjob and then lied about it under oath, he would be equivalent to Clinton.
  • If Trump had merely engaged in extramarital affairs he would be equivalent to Kennedy and Clinton.
  • if Trump had merely used illegal / improper tactics to gain competitive election information he would be equivalent to Nixon.

Trump raised their lapses of character to the next level.

Trump, in case you have ignored it, is the only PotUS in our history who used fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement in an attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power and basically steal a US presidential election.   On top of that, he also engaged in extramarital affairs, paid off porn stars to hide his affair from voters, sexually assaulted women, engaged in fraudulent business practices, stiffed untold business partners and contractors, scammed untold customers, disrespected our veterans as CiC, and is by an order of magnitude the most prolific liar / most dishonest of any PotUS in any of our lifetimes.

When speaking of abysmal character, there is no one to compare Trump with.   He is in a league of his own.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.17  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.16    3 months ago
Trump raised their lapses of character to the next level.

Trump, in case you have ignored it, is the only PotUS in our history who used fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement in an attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power and basically steal a US presidential election.   On top of that, he also engaged in extramarital affairs, paid off porn stars to hide his affair from voters, sexually assaulted women, engaged in fraudulent business practices, stiffed untold business partners and contractors, scammed untold customers, disrespected our veterans as CiC, and is by an order of magnitude the most prolific liar / most dishonest of any PotUS in any of our lifetimes.

When speaking of abysmal character, there is no one to compare Trump with.   He is in a league of his own.

... yeah, ... but his policies were really good...   /s

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4  Sean Treacy    3 months ago

Obama says government isn’t inherently corrupt…

says the guy who never held a full time job for four years before being president whose net worth is now measured in tens of millions and who owns multiple luxury properties while talking about the presidency of another life time “public servant” who took tens of millions from our nation’s enemies in a city that has spent its entire existence perfecting the art of public corruption.

that was almost as funny as his wife, co owner of multiple million dollar luxury houses, saying her Parents told her not to trust people who keep more than they need.  

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
4.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    3 months ago

Ah yes. A visit from the original divider-in-chief spouting the same old bullshit. What would a democratic get together be without the magnanimous shit-stirrer.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1    3 months ago

Yeah, we all needed another sermon filled with vaguely intellectual platitudes that offers no real substance and that demonstrates no self awareness or  relation to how he actually operates as, as you say, a shit stirrer,

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.1    3 months ago

JOY!!!!!!! JOY!!!!!!! JOY!!!!!!! JOY!!!!!!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.3  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.2    3 months ago

DNC is a revival. The RNC was Trump's Memorial Service!

The DNC is a celebration. The RNC was a funeral service...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @4.1.3    3 months ago

The DNC convention is a relief celebration that the party still has a chance to beat Trump.

A relief that Obama & Pelosi were able to push Biden aside.

A relief that the Biden debate wasn't held next month instead of last month.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5  Jeremy Retired in NC    3 months ago
“Who’s going to tell him the job he’s currently seeking might just be one of those black jobs.”

No, that's not racist.  But then again this is the DNC, so it is expected.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6  author  Vic Eldred    3 months ago

Michelle Obama: "No one has a monopoly on what it means to be an American! No one!"

Is that a defense of open borders?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
6.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Vic Eldred @6    3 months ago

Could be taken that way.........and that is probably what was meant.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7  Sean Treacy    3 months ago

democrats have controlled the White House for 12 of the last 16 years, during which our nation has borrowed ungodly amounts of money, our society has fractured worse than at any time in more than half a century, inflation destroyed the working class and our nation has been essentially invaded thanks to an open border. 

and all they do is blame trump.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @7    3 months ago
democrats have controlled the White House for 12 of the last 16 years,

was the country being "essentially invaded " prior to 2009 ?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    3 months ago

I'll give you a hint - according to this chart every year between 2009 and 2016 (Obama years) had less illegal border crossings than ANY of the Bush years (2001-2008)

Border crossing encounters U.S. 1990-2023 | Statista

800

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.1    3 months ago

On the whole, taking 2018 into account, there were slightly less illegal border crossings during the Obama years than the Trump years. 

So that belies your assertion about "16 years". 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.2    3 months ago

The lowest point I see on that graph came in 2017.  

I thought the point about an open border involved the Biden years.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.3    3 months ago

To you it involves what ever you want it to involve. 

Sean tried to make the point that Democrats have been in presidential power for 12 out of the last 16 years and things have deteriorated under that Dem leadership.  It appears there were less border crossings, although slightly, in the Obama years than the Trump years.    That is the point. Glad to help.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.4    3 months ago
To you it involves what ever you want it to involve. 

We had a wide-open border for three years. That is the only thing that needs to be said about the border.


Sean tried to make the point that Democrats have been in presidential power for 12 out of the last 16 years and things have deteriorated under that Dem leadership.  It appears there were less border crossings, although slightly, in the Obama years than the Trump years.    That is the point. Glad to help.

Looking up comparisons between Obama and Trump on the border is trivia. Obama at least tried to secure the border. Trump not only tried but eventually found a great solution via a deal with Mexico.

My pleasure.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.5    3 months ago
Looking up comparisons between Obama and Trump on the border is trivia. Obama at least tried to secure the border. Trump not only tried but eventually found a great solution via a deal with Mexico.

In Trumps last year in office , 2020, there were 405,000 border apprehensions, more than in 3 of Obamas 8 years, and more than in 2 of his own 4 years. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.6    3 months ago

Again John, I am not comparing Trump to Obama or Trump to Trump.

I'm only interested in Biden's first three years.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.8  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.7    3 months ago

Since Trumps border crossings never really went down, in fact his last two years were significantly more than his first two years, i guess he didnt solve shit. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.8    3 months ago

Here's the difference:

Under Trump:

Completed  472 executive actions  on immigration during his presidency.

Built  hundreds of miles of fencing  along the U.S.-Mexico border, although most was installed in areas where smaller barriers already existed. Mexico did not pay for those changes.

Implemented “ Migrant Protection Protocols ,” also known as the “Remain in Mexico” policy, which required certain migrants to wait for U.S. hearings in Mexico.

Invoked  Title 42 , a public health policy that allowed border agents to swiftly expel migrants due to COVID-19.

Temporarily  banned nationals  from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen.

Set a  record-low limit  for new U.S. refugees.


Under Biden:

Monthly migrant encounters at the southern border hit a record-high 302,000  in December 2023.

Reversed several Trump-era policies: Ended “Remain in Mexico” and halted construction on the border wall.

Negotiated  a deal with Mexico  to restart the “Remain in Mexico” program before the Supreme Court ruled the Biden administration had the authority to end the policy.

Approved further  construction of a border wall  in October, citing an “immediate need” for it.

Directed DHS to pause deportations of migrants who pose little or no national security risk, a policy the  Supreme Court upheld .

Launched the  CBP One app  to streamline the processing of migrants before they arrive at the U.S. border. Migrants have  reported issues  with the app.

Biden issued an  executive order  in June 2024 to temporarily close the border and prevent migrants from seeking asylum at the border when a certain number of daily crossings was exceeded.

Also in June 2024, Biden  issued immigration relief  in the form of allowing those in the country illegally who are married to U.S. citizens to live and work here legally.


Trump vs. Biden: How they compare on economy, border, abortion (newsnationnow.com)

WASHINGTON (AP) — Arrests for illegal  border crossings  from Mexico reached an all-time high in December since monthly numbers have been released, authorities said Friday, exposing a growing vulnerability for President Joe Biden in his campaign for a second term.

The Border Patrol tallied 249,785 arrests on the Mexican border in December, up 31% from 191,112 in November and up 13% from 222,018 in December 2022, the previous all-time high.

Arrests fell more than half during the first two weeks of January, “consistent with historical trends and enhanced enforcement,” U.S. Customs and Border Protection  said in a statement . CBP previously said  a crackdown by Mexican authorities  contributed to the January decline.

Mexicans accounted for 56,236 arrests in December, while Venezuelans were second with 46,937, erasing much of the decline that followed the start of  deportation flights to Venezuela  in October. Arrests of Guatemalans surged, with Hondurans and Colombians rounding out the top five nationalities.

Illegal border crossings from Mexico reach highest on record in December before January lull | AP News


You just can't spin it away!

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
7.1.10  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.8    3 months ago
i guess he didnt solve shit. 

Look after 2020 when Biden came in and get back to us.........they saw the weak one coming into office and headed out prior to the election.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.9    3 months ago
Completed  472 executive actions  on immigration during his presidency.

Built  hundreds of miles of fencing  along the U.S.-Mexico border, although most was installed in areas where smaller barriers already existed. Mexico did not pay for those changes.

Implemented “ Migrant Protection Protocols ,” also known as the “Remain in Mexico” policy, which required certain migrants to wait for U.S. hearings in Mexico.

Invoked  Title 42 , a public health policy that allowed border agents to swiftly expel migrants due to COVID-19.

Temporarily  banned nationals  from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen.

Set a  record-low limit  for new U.S. refugees.

Then why didnt he have less border crossings than Obama? 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
7.1.12  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.11    3 months ago
Then why didnt he have less border crossings than Obama? 

During Obama, what was to come for? Coming out of his handling of a recession, there wasn't a whole lot to look forward to here.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.13  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.11    3 months ago

Is that your defense of the open border?

You look for times when there were fewer apprehensions than Trump had?

We had perhaps as many as 20 million unknown migrants enter the country in the past 3 and a half years and all you talk about is Trump. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.12    3 months ago

Obama never gave into the left on the border.

Joe Biden opened it right up. Harris was part of that and if she is elected it will happen again.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.15  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.8    3 months ago
Since Trumps border crossings never really went down, in fact his last two years were significantly more than his first two years, i guess he didnt solve shit. 

I just know you aren't actually trying to compare Trump's record on the border with Pathetic Joe's. That would be absolutely disastrous.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
7.1.16  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.8    3 months ago

Those are border encounters, correct? The ones who get to the border and turn themselves in? Seems you're also missing a piece of the picture during the Trump years when he had the Remain in Mexico policy. Those who turned themselves in had to go back into Mexico and wait for their turn. Under the current administration, it's catch & release into the country.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
7.1.17  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.11    3 months ago

Your link doesn't show crossings, it shows border encounters. Now what happened with those who came to the border and turned themselves in to Border Patrol officers?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Sean Treacy @7    3 months ago
democrats have controlled the White House for 12 of the last 16 years

And not once attempted to do what they are "promising". 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8  JBB    3 months ago

Millions more voters are watching the DNC than tuned into the RNC!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @8    3 months ago

That statement requires a link.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.1.1  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @8.1    3 months ago

You can look. I never lie. Read this and don't be too sad about it...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @8.1.1    3 months ago

I'm not sad about it.

I simply want you to back up what you say.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.1.3  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @8.1.2    3 months ago

Each day DNC is growing. RNC was SMALL smaller smallest!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @8.1.3    3 months ago

You mean the democrat party is growing.

Why do you think the party is growing?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
8.1.5  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Vic Eldred @8.1.4    3 months ago

Wishful thinking??

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @8.1.5    3 months ago

I was hoping for an answer.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
8.1.7  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JBB @8.1.3    3 months ago

And you're basing this off TV ratings?  That's as laughable as saying Biden is 100% competent.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @8.1.7    3 months ago
And you're basing this off TV ratings?  That's as laughable as saying Biden is 100% competent

Remember way back in July when Democrats were busy lying to us, saying Joe was 'just fine' and as active and alert as people decades younger?

And then one little debate showed the nation how badly they all lied. Then they pushed Biden out and anointed Kamala and man, did they all jump aboard the new train quickly or what?

I suspect the 'enthusiasm' over Harris is just a front for the most devout Trump-haters. I don't think it matters who runs against Trump as long as they hate Trump as they do.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
8.1.9  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Texan1211 @8.1.8    3 months ago
Remember way back in July when Democrats were busy lying to us, saying Joe was 'just fine' and as active and alert as people decades younger?

Remember way back?  Shit they did it last night.  The majority of what they were talking about were lies.  

I suspect the 'enthusiasm' over Harris is just a front for the most devout Trump-haters. 

That's a given.  It's not like they can run on their "accomplishments".  Kind of hard to do when there are none.  But is does show how gullible the Trump-haters really are.  They keep regurgitating the same talking points no matter how many times they've been proven false.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
8.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JBB @8    3 months ago

On the night(s) when all the headliners are speaking. Let's see what day 3 and 4 bring.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.2.1  JBB  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @8.2    3 months ago

That is so lame is has fallen and cannot get up. Call ElderLert!

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
8.2.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JBB @8.2.1    3 months ago

Why is that lame? Except for her acceptance speech, all of the hoopla is over.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.2.3  JBB  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @8.2.2    3 months ago

People are tuning into the DNC. The RNC turned them off!

Trump and his poor pitiful lameass MAGA are all in denial.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.2.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @8.2.3    3 months ago

If that is the case, Harris and her "Joy" ride should win in a landslide.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
9  Nerm_L    3 months ago

Perhaps it is easier to go high when starting from such a low place.

There was a subtle but noticeable shift in the theme of the convention on the second night.   The theme for the first night was 'passing the torch'.  That was a necessary step to graciously send Joe Biden to the back of the bus.  Hillary Clinton's evangelical play-acting was about the next generation finishing what her generation started; passing the torch.  And Biden's finale was boasting brags of his generation's accomplishments to prepare for the next generation; passing the torch again.  (Personally I'm happy that the SOBiden is gone for good.)

The theme for the second night was a little more nostalgic.  Aside from the butchers throwing red meat, the theme was set by the main speakers.  Both Michele and Barack Obama delivered a message of 'carrying the torch'.  The tired old grievances of the last one and half centuries persist.  Stay the course, pick up that torch, and carry it forward.  The message was perhaps aspirational but not really forward looking.

One thing is becoming quite plain.  The Democrats' Grand Poobahs may look like they are defining Kamala Harris but, in actual fact, they are boxing in Harris.  Harris won't be allowed to overturn Biden's agenda and replace it with it with California Dreamin' (which is actually older than Kamala).  Harris is going to be expected to carry the torch she has been handed.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @9    3 months ago

I agree with all of that.

The Democrats' Grand Poobahs may look like they are defining Kamala Harris but, in actual fact, they are boxing in Harris.  Harris won't be allowed to overturn Biden's agenda and replace it with it with California Dreamin' (which is actually older than Kamala).  Harris is going to be expected to carry the torch she has been handed.  

I notice that Barack Obama resisted any temptation to explain the Harris price control plan.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
9.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.1    3 months ago
I notice that Barack Obama resisted any temptation to explain the Harris price control plan.

Michelle and Barack were all about racial grievances and how those grievances are really the same for everyone.  What Barack really said is that grievance is more than just a Black thing if you listen.  Barack is actually a Lincoln Republican.  (That's when Republicans had hearts of gold instead of silver souls.)

Bernie Sanders tried to redefine Kamala's price gouging to fit into the standard Democrat playbook.  Several of the other speakers imposed bits and pieces of Democrats' stale old playbook onto expectations for Harris.  Sanders came closest to delivering a unified speech to box in Harris.  Otherwise it's been a bit here and there; subtle but noticeable if you pay attention.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @9.1.1    3 months ago
(That's when Republicans had hearts of gold instead of silver souls.)

That has to be the best line of the day!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
10  author  Vic Eldred    3 months ago

GVf9lDAWwAAsA48?format=jpg&name=large

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
10.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Vic Eldred @10    3 months ago

Walz is very Biden like. He even lies about how he conceived his daughter.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
10.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1    3 months ago

To you, every Democrat is corrupt and rotten, and every Republican is misunderstood and/or irrelevant because the democrats are so rotten.  

The rest of the world is at an impasse with your viewpoint. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
10.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1    3 months ago

He was a huge mistake for Harris, but then again, she instinctively goes to her left on everything.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
10.1.3  Snuffy  replied to  Vic Eldred @10.1.2    3 months ago

Yes, but wasn't Vance a mistake for Trump? He got himself a 'yes' man. IMO there were much better options to choose from who could help bring in voters in a general election.

He still seems to be just campaigning to his base rather than expanding to bring in more Independents and disillusioned Democrats. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
10.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Snuffy @10.1.3    3 months ago

I think Vance is proving to be a good pick. He is articulate and quick on his feet.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
10.1.5  Snuffy  replied to  Vic Eldred @10.1.4    3 months ago

I'll give him that. But IMO he's too much like Trump, I just don't see what new voters he brings in.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
11  Just Jim NC TttH    3 months ago

Here is a reason they don't want her off script...................

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
12  author  Vic Eldred    3 months ago

The Department of Homeland Security's internal watchdog says it has uncovered an "urgent issue" with how  immigration officials  handle cases involving unaccompanied migrant children, warning in a new report that the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency has been unable to keep track of all unaccompanied minors released from government custody.

The interim report, sent to Congress on Tuesday and obtained by ABC News, said that -- in the past five years -- more than 32,000 unaccompanied migrant children failed to appear for their immigration court hearings, and ICE was "not able to account" for all of their locations.

By law, the Department of Health and Human Services is responsible for the care of unaccompanied migrant children, so after they are initially taken into custody by U.S. authorities, it is ICE's role "to ensure [their] timely and safe transfer" to HHS, which then often places them in shelters or qualified sponsors' homes.

DHS watchdog warns of 'urgent issue' after immigration officials allegedly lose track of unaccompanied children - ABC News (go.com)

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
12.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Vic Eldred @12    3 months ago

Joy! 

 
 

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