Elon Musk worked in US illegally in 1995 after quitting school - report | Elon Musk | The Guardian
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Elon Musk briefly worked illegally in the US after abandoning a graduate studies program in California, according to a Washington Post report that contrasted the episode with the South African multibillionaire's anti-immigration views.
The boss of Tesla and SpaceX, who has in recent weeks supported Donald Trump's campaign for a second presidency while promoting the Republican White House nominee's opposition to "open borders" on his X social media site, has previously maintained that his transition from student to entrepreneur was a "legal grey area".
But the Washington Post reported Saturday that the world's wealthiest individual was almost certainly working in the US without correct authorization for a period in 1995 after he dropped out of Stanford University to work on his debut company, Zip2, which sold for about$300m four years later.
Legal experts said foreign students cannot drop out of school to build a company even if they are not getting paid. The Post also noted that - prior to the September 11 terrorist attacks agains the US in 2001 - regulation for student visas was more lax.
"If you do anything that helps to facilitate revenue creation, such as design code or try to make sales in furtherance of revenue creation, then you're in trouble," Leon Fresco, a former US justice department immigration litigator, told the outlet.
But the Post also acknowledged: "While overstaying a student visa is somewhat common and officials have at times turned a blind eye to it, it remains illegal."
Musk has previously said: "I was legally there, but I was meant to be doing student work. I was allowed to do work sort of supporting whatever."
Musk employs 121,000 people at Tesla, about 13,000 at SpaceX and nearly 3,000 at X. The scrutiny of his immigration status after dropping out of Stanford comes after Trump has touted his desire for Musk to play a high-profile role focused on government efficiency in a second Trump administration if voters return him to office at the expense of Kamala Harris in the 5 November election.
Musk in turn has accused the vice-president and her fellow Democrats of "importing voters" through illegal and temporary protected status immigration. During a recent Trump campaign appearance, he compared the US-Mexico border to a "zombie apocalypse" - even as he had also previously described himself as "extremely pro immigrant, being one myself".
Bloomberg News recently published an analysis of more than 53,000 posts sent from Musk's X account, finding that the entrepreneur's output turned increasingly political this election year.
"In 2024, immigration and voter fraud has become Musk's most frequently posted and engaged with policy topic, garnering about 10bn views," the outlet said. "Musk posted more than 1,300 times about the topic overall, with more than 330 posts in the past 2 months alone."
Bloomberg described Musk - who paid $44bn for X, then Twitter, in 2022 - as the platform's single most important influencer and has reportedly ordered site engineers to push his posts into users' feeds. That makes Musk "the most widely read person on the site today", Bloomberg said.
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Republican mantra: Do as I say, not as I do.
They still cannot vote. It's a ridiculous fallacy.
it's still pretty comical to see who repeats that immigrant voting bullshit here tho ...
Not quite. While they cannot directly vote, they can have an impact on how many seats are apportioned in the House. For that purpose, the census is the basis for how many seats are allotted which, according to the Constitution, doesn't take citizenship into account. Only total population. A bill was passed earlier this year that made it illegal to include illegal aliens to be counted for such purposes. However the vote was 206 to 202. Should the house go back to Democratic control, it is likely that bill would be removed, in my opinion, and illegal aliens would once again be a factor in House seat apportionment. As I understand it, most of them congregate in blue urban areas and would only benefit Democrats to do so.
Take it from someone whose Aunts and Uncles on one branch of the family do not have birth certificates, they don't fill out census questionnaires and don't answer the door unless they recognize a relative.
They don't drive, they don't vote - they don't take out loans or use credit cards-
they don't do anything to bring attention to themselves that would raise the risk of being deported.
While I'm sure there's a lot of truth to what you say here, there are apparently enough that do fill them out to be a factor, according to a article.
Nonsense. It's not happening. Just an excuse for the 'right' that illegals are voting in droves for Democrats.
... same with my son's in-laws. 2 legal, 3 in process, after 3 years...
you would think that if a political party is so concerned about house district apportionment, they would simply look within their political funding donor networks in those problem areas and address the employers that are skirting the verification process of finding legal workers and implore them to either reduce their numbers of undocumented workers or at least sponsor them for work visas, green cards, or naturalized citizenship. it seems counterproductive that the party's largest benefactors would be encouraging illegal activities by undocumented workers that would by default, according to the party, progress to illegally voting for an agenda that opposes the party and employers best interests. let's see if together we can assess and identify the problem based upon known republican qualities...
A third of them easily pass for white. The language gives them away.
and prejudice?
Man are they hard on each other over skin color, simply amazing.
Me? I suppose I could learn more than 6 words in Spanish, maybe.
LoL
My MIL did dried flowers, and knitted lace doilies back in the late 40's and early 50's. They lived in rented multi family duplex with Grandmom and an Aunt and their families.
My MIL sent the older boys to the LA freeway exits to sell her goods. FIL, a Mexican National came back from the Pacific missing a finger and got a civil engineering degree on the GI Bill and a job with city of LA.
No one would give them a loan. So she worked a few jobs, cleaned houses and made art and crafts.
When they found a house through a savy Hispanic realtor he made it a 180 day rent to own and they moved in between another Spanish speaking family and a white family led by a BSoA ScoutMaster. $6K cash.
The scoutmaster made their lives a living hell, poured his trash in their yard, screamed at them daily to speak English or turn down the music in the garage where the boys lifted weights; they are convinced he killed their dog but his defense to the PoPo was if he wanted to kill animals, the family would have all disappeared by now. The situation was untenable but the realtor knew this and had a second home available. They moved to the new home, a corner property nearby with small orchards of citrus on either side. The realtor finished that sale and they lived there for 40 years before selling for $400K and followed their kids to TX
Ironically, the oldest son became a minister and a scoutmaster and died in his sleep on a long distance camping trip with the BSoA
Jesus - and scum like that say immigrants are the problem.
As for the seeded article, it is sadly lacking in necessary information for one to make an informed decision concerning wrongdoing on Musk's part. For instance, the portion of the article that states "for a period in 1995" is pretty vague, indicating to me that it probably wasn't very long. Further, that whether it was a week or six months, his status ultimately changed to being here legally again but, apparently, under a different visa. That suggests to me that the period was likely covered by an application of visa status change for which there was probably a time period for which he had in order to make the change. That is speculation on my part, of course, but that is only necessary because this article has no real information contained in it, which I suspect is purpose driven.
Or maybe it’s more incentive to not be booting out everyone because of immigration status. What if Elon had been given the boot at the point in time where he admitted to have lied explicitly to stay in the US? Maybe we would be that much further behind in space exploration and electrification because of it.
Not in my opinion. There is a difference between crossing the border illegally and someone who is here legally on a visa, green card or some other legal means. The article is nearly devoid of information that would answer obvious questions, but presumably, Musk must have done the proper thing and had his student visa legally changed from one kind to another, else I assume we would have heard about it.
On another note, the article seems to imply hypocrisy on Musk's part because of his stance on illegal immigration but I see this simply as simply inserting a preferred narrative for political purposes. One can be pro-immigration but anti-illegal immigration. I think that is Musk's view.
I am unaware of such an admittance by Musk. Are you referring to something in the seeded article or are you referring to something else?
Fuck Musk and his anti-American traitorous pasty white scummy ass.
I am unaware of such an admittance by Musk. Are you referring to something in the seeded article or are you referring to something else?
I read several different articles about this but I can’t find the one that claimed Elon and his brother left the country and came back in for the sale of his company. At the border they claimed they were temporarily entering the country to see the David Letterman show. I think it may have been Daily Beast, but I can’t access it now. If this is accurate it was a deliberate lie.
Perhaps the reason you can't find it is that it wasn't accurate, but that isn't certain. Just a possibility. In any case, no offense against you yourself, if what you say here is what the article said it makes little sense to me. The government was fine with letting him in to see Letterman but had a problem with letting him in to sell his company? Are not foreigners routinely allowed in for just such purposes? Why would Musk have to lie about that? Presumably, the company he was selling met whatever governmental requirements necessary to operate so why would they deny entry for the purpose of selling it? Why would Musk's presence even be necessary, as the whole process is primarily conducted through lawyers? All Musk would have to do is sign paperwork. Not that I expect the answer from you. I'm just asking myself what seem like obvious questions.
I don’t make the rules, they just are what they are and according to what I read Elon and his brother were fully aware of the fact that they weren’t in compliance with them. If any other noncitizen were to enter the country to sell a business for any amount of money while lying about the reason, would that be okay with you? Or is it only okay because it’s Elon Musk and he’s rich?
That's rather the point. You are asking me to offer an opinion based on nothing except your recollection of an article. There are obvious questions associated with your claim. Like, why would Musk and his brother need to lie in the first place. Why would the government wish to prevent entry for the purpose of preventing a sale of a business? Foreigners come in on visas for just such a purpose all the time. You simply present a scenario as fact without any supporting reason or evidence. What rational person would be satisfied with that? To my mind, you read an article and unquestionably accepted what it said. I don't work that way.
Your question assumes I am defending Musk in some way rather than having what I consider obvious questions concerning the subject. That's fine. That's pretty much all that happens here, so I expect it.
I do have admiration for Musk. I love his common sense. I love the fact he resists pressure to conform to ideals not his own. I love that he started with little to nothing and is reaching for the stars. But I also see him as merely a man, with faults like anyone else. I do not agree with everything he says. Still, I believe he is someone to be admired.
I believed it because it makes sense. Immigrants are crossing the border by paying coyotes $5,000 to sneak them in. I guess all they really need to do is to create a business and have somebody in the US buy it from them. That way they can just walk right in, according to you.
I see you have no interest in a rational discussion. Have a nice day.
I have an off topic question for you - how much do your religious beliefs inform your support of Trump ?
As much as it does for any other candidate. Why?
I see you have no interest in a rational discussion.
I am interested. Why are you running away?
Because I asked several obvious questions to the narrative you present but you have made no effort to answer them. Instead, you simply continue as if your narrative is established fact. Then, in your next to last post, you simply resorted to projection as to my position. Those are not the hallmarks of an actual discussion.
Musk “has previously maintained that his transition from student to entrepreneur was a "legal grey area".” You questioned why he shouldn’t just be able to cross the border as a noncitizen to sell his company here. I’m asking you if that same standard should apply to any other noncitizen selling any other company. If he’s being treated as fairly as any other noncitizen then it should be that easy for any noncitizen to cross the border. A Guatemalan would be able to create a company that makes friendship bracelets, then have someone in the US buy the company, and in the process the Guatemalan gets to just cleanly cross the border. If that sounds ridiculous, consider that it’s just taking your defense of Musk to its logical conclusion.
Incorrect. What I questioned was, why would Musk need to lie about entering the country legally in order to sell his company? What legal barrier would make it necessary for him to do so, given that plenty of foreigners obtain legal visas for that very purpose?
Since you have not addressed the questions I've already asked, and asked again in the statement above, answering this question is problematic. It implies that my position is that anyone, let alone Musk, has the right to cross the border legally or illegally in order to conduct business. That is not my position, nor has anything I've said could be construed to indicate such. Therefore, answering your question as asked would only legitimize your strawman. I won't do that.
Instead, I will point out that the United States routinely issues non-immigrant status visas for a variety of reasons. Such reasons include tourism, business, study, medical treatment, or temporary work. Given that, and once again, why would Musk, or anyone else for that matter, need to lie about such a purpose as being here to sell their company? The US routinely issues visas for that very purpose!
Why can you not answer this question? Instead, you just keep right on going with a narrative that makes no sense whatsoever. Why would Musk lie about the purpose of his visa in order to sell his company when there is manifestly no reason to do so???
I'm not going to bother addressing the rest of your post as it simply rests on your unproven and illogical narrative.
I’ve read some of your post but I’m not bothering to read it all because it’s garbage. Musk admits to what I am saying, and you’re throwing out questions to defend him from his own admission. This is stupid. Go gaslight elsewhere.
Musk acknowledged in a 2005 email obtained by the Post he “didn't really care much for the degree,” but “had no money for a lab and no legal right to stay in the country.” Derek Proudian, a Zip2 board member who later became the company’s CEO, told the newspaper Musk and his brother Kimbal’s “immigration status was not what it should be for them to be legally employed running a company in the U.S.”
Great. Then I'll just assume this "discussion" is over.
You may or may not be right about that-- but without positive proof, please realize that that's an assumption on your part.
That suggests to me
Again, that may or may not be correct-- but again, it is an another assumption of your part.
As you realize...
(Personally, for the most part, I'm not a big fan of assumptions..)
I do not understand the point of your post. I pointed out that the article leaves a lot of obvious questions unaddressed, let alone unanswered. I point out what seems most logically probable, using adverbs such as "probably", "likely" and "suggests" to indicate that my view is conjecture, meaning an opinion based on incomplete information. In other words, I went out of my way to make it clear I was not making definite conclusions based on inadequate information. In fact, the only assumption I can see that I made was that at some point Musk must have applied for a change in visa status. For the rest, as I said plainly...
ROUND HIM UP AND INTO A CAMP….
And then deport him. He'd poisoning the blood of our country.
He's vermin.
he's afrikkkaner ...
Ahhhhhhhh, that's the ticket.
Came here to say this.
To say what, Tacos?
What you said
Ha, good and thanks.
AT the end of WWll the US brought in to our country well over 1,000 nazi’s under operation paperclip mostly engineers and scientists, but with the moral authority of a slug we now want to throw out a guy that does hard labor in the US because he broke our laws so he could eat.
The US government brought in Nazi’s that are responsible for the Holocaust but have have a shit fit over people here picking fruit to fill our tables…
Do you really think the issue is that simple? Really?
Yes, I do, if you don’t well that’s on you.
I guess I'm not really surprised, I suppose.
No, you shouldn’t be surprised.
Thanks for that information.
I just googled Werner von Braun and found this:
Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun was a German-American aerospace engineer and space architect. He was a member of the Nazi Party and Allgemeine SS , the leading figure in the development of rocket technology in Nazi Germany, and later a pioneer of rocket and space technology in the United States.
As a young man, von Braun worked in Nazi Germany's rocket development program. He helped design and co-developed the V-2 rocket at Peenemünde during World War II. The V-2 became the first artificial object to travel into space on 20 June 1944.
Following the war, he was secretly moved to the United States, along with about 1,600 other German scientists, engineers, and technicians, as part of Operation Paperclip. He worked for the United States Army on an intermediate-range ballistic missile program, and he developed the rockets that launched the United States' first space satellite Explorer 1 in 1958. He worked with Walt Disney on a series of films, which popularized the idea of human space travel in the U.S. and beyond from 1955 to 1957. [ 7 ]
(Edited for length)
Some time ago there was a prominent satirist and piano player called Tom Lehrer. (Note: it says to sign in but all you have to do is click on the middle picture on the bottom of the screen when it appears below after your first click).
From YouTube:
WERNER VON BRAUN (TOM LEHRER)
From YouTube:
WERNER VON BRAUN (TOM LEHRER)
Often there's an "Easter Egg" ( definition #2 ) in some of his videos. In this video it's in the first few notes he plays after the spoken introduction.
Anyone recognize what tune those first few notes are from?
I guess not.
He's so weird!
People are saying that "weird" is one of the descriptive words for the Republican slate's theme in this years election!