Zelensky just screwed himself
Zelensky evidently thinks he won World War II. He hasn't. He was disrespectful in front of the cameras and this time there is no walking it back.
He did try after being kicked out of the White House:
"Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy reacted publicly for the first time since his Oval Office blowup with President Donald Trump on Friday with a social media post thanking the United States.
"Thank you America, thank you for your support, thank you for this visit," Zelenskyy posted on X. "Thank you @POTUS. Congress, and the American people. Ukraine needs just and lasting peace, and we are working exactly for that."
The post was Zelenskyy's first comment since a meeting with Trump and Vice President JD Vance turned into a shouting match at the White House with the three leaders arguing over what "cards" Ukraine holds and whether Zelenskyy has shown enough gratitude to the United States."
Zelenskyy shares message after explosive Trump meeting | Fox News
Too little too late.
Now he is on his own.
Let's see how tough he is.
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Volodymyr go fuck yourself!
Will that show you how "tough he is"?
What the MAGAites really want is for everyone to kneel before rightwing fascism. As they get down and prostrate themselves before their short weaselly Russian master they have to keep telling themselves this was all they could do, they didn't have a choice. They're just too weak to stand up against rightwing fascism since that would take a backbone and we know they traded that thing in years ago. [Deleted][✘]
How disgusting to side with Trump in his most unpresidential, slimy public display thus far in his presidency.
He is an embarrassment to our nation and its history.
Why? What did he ever do to you?
[Deleted][✘]
no wonder the Ukrainian ambassador was holding her head in her hands.
It was nice to see how an actual man conducts himself in the presence of two lying children who parade around like they are respected leaders. Trump and Vance are a colossal embarrassment for our country.
By fucking up and failing?
By citing the truth. Trump was only upset because Zelensky refused to kneel down and kiss his ring!
If you think Trump acted in a sane and reasonable way, in the oval office in front of the world, you are as bad as he is.
Failing to act like a spineless, pathetic Republican member of Congress.
Is Zelensky brain damaged? He just won a Darwin award for his country. He had one job when he came to Washington and he screwed it up.
I will guarantee his advisors told him not to challenge Trump and try to negotiate in public. Even the biggest idiot in the world know how Trump would react to that . But Zelensky (Trump like) let his pride get in the way and decided to try anyway. Any fool knows Trump takes negotiations personally and doesn't like Zelensky because Zelensky interfered in our election and campaigned for Harris and other Democrats. A titanically stupid move to begin with.
so he had to know Trump's view of him. He can't be stupid enough not to. So his job (since he's the supplicant asking for things) was to come to American say "please" and "thank you" and walk away with billions in aid. That's all he had to do. He couldn't manage it.
He did say please and thank you, several times. Zelensky acted like a normal adult human being. Nobody in the world can watch what occurred and blame the outcome of the press conference on Zelensky. That was a pure takedown of him by Putin lovers.
obody in the world can watch what occurred and blame the outcome of the press conference on Zelensky.
Did he get the deal that his country needs and was already agreed to? No? Then he fucked up.
He's the one who needed the agreement. So his job (since he's the supplicant asking for things) was to come to American say "please" and "thank you" and walk away with billions in aid. That's all he had to do. He couldn't manage it.
He didn't fuck up, unless you mean he did not get down on his knees and grovel.
Trump and company are all about power, not about respect. That is why they get no respect. They don't deserve it.
America will rue this day.
A Soviet acted like a Soviet? And no one saw this coming? Really?
Fuck Trump. He is a sick, sick man.
Wake up America because the clock is ticking and the hour is late.
We did wake up.
We voted out the diseased Democrats that spent 4 years destroying this country.
It will take time to fix it; but Trump was by far the lesser of two evils.
If you love Ukraine so much hop on a flight to Poland. From there it is a short trip to the Ukraine border. They are taking anyone and everyone willing and unwilling to fight these days.
Just don't expect US aid and military equipment to be waiting for you once you arrive.
You know Russia is an enemy of the USA, right?
To rightwing conservatives, their fellow Americans who happen to be Democrats are the enemy and Russian authoritarian dictators who are determined to see the fall of western democracy are their friends. Pretty fucked up world right now.
So embarrassing to see a guest invited to the White House only to be bullied and shouted at by our President and VP. They have done literally nothing for him and they demand that he thank them.
They tried to tell him how things have been going, but their ignorance was staggering. They had no understanding of how long the conflict has been going on. They had no clue that a cease fire had been signed and broken by Putin. They just wanted to make sure that Zelensky and everyone else knows how “tough” they are.
Trump had the nerve to declare that he doesn’t call people names and then negotiate with them (referring to Putin) but he’s sitting right next to a man he just called a dictator.
Just nauseating to watch.
Fuck everyone who is aligned with Trump. All this blowback claiming that he was shouting at Trump is so much ca-ca.
Here is a video of the whole meeting
And as far as nauseating, it was Trump lying and blowing his own horn most of the time.
Trump claimed that he stopped wars, lots of wars, and that he will be remembered as the President of Peace. Too bad Vance had to speak up at 42:19 of this video and start lecturing Zelensky when Zelensky was just trying to keep people aware of how long the conflict had been going on. Zelensky did not lose his cool. If anyone, it was Trump and Vance that had kind of a feedback loop going. They, trump and Vance, are toxic people. They started the argument, not Zelensky, and then they tag-teamed him, right after Vance got done saying...
Came an attack on Zelensky:
Full frontal assault on Zelensky because he was not sniveling like a whiney supplicant. Jd Vance was right about 1 thing, though, you do need to watch the Trump's actions, not his words. People in power can usually either be feared or respected, but not both. Trump and Vance showed the world today that they are not really worth respecting. Not one bit.
What an embarrassment for our nation.
And in Ukraine, everyone is solidifying behind Zelinsky for not losing his cool, for defending his countries right to exist without being attacked by it's neighbor for speaking for both the living and the dead Ukrainians.
If there were a snap election tomorrow Zelinsky would win in a landslide.
The Potus of Peace is still complaining about everyone else who ever got a Nobel Peace Prize, while he hasn't.
The POTUS of Peace just launched a MinuteMan III worth $8 million 4,200.00 miles to flex his muscles
saying that he needed to do so to show the world's leaders that he isn't Joe Biden who had no test launches of nuclear
capable missiles during his term.
An Air Force spokesperson later said the test was a scheduled test of the troubled upgrade program which is now in Pentagon review after going 25% over budget, currently at $131 Billion and rising.
Yay, PoTUS of Peace.
You can say that again.
Really?! Zelenskyy set up all the cameras and media in the oval office prior to the meeting? That doesn't even make sense. If anyone wanted this to play out in front of the American media/public, it certainly wasn't Zelenskyy. And I don't think it went the way they thought it would. Fucking embarrassing for everyone involved!
So how much free money for Ukraine and how many Americans do we sacrifice for this ungrateful comedian?
I have no problem with my tax dollars going to protect our allies and our interests in Europe. [deleted][✘]
So are you of the belief that Zelenski can win if he just hangs in there?
Nobody is bowing to putin, that kind of BS is makes the rest of your comment suspect, the only threat from Russia is nuclear as this adventure by Vlad has proven, the only obvious [deleted] [✘] when it comes to fiscal responsibility, but that is understandable because it's always someone else's money.
I believe in defending our allies and Ukraine should be welcomed into NATO and we should put boots on the ground, my kids included. To just keel over and abandon our ally simply because Putin has nukes is moronic. It's as if some weak losers believe that after amassing the most powerful military and the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons on the planet, now we have to back down when the piss ant rightwing dictator waves his tiny nuclear prick around and demands we back off from helping our ally. I'm sure those bowing to Putin would be ashamed if they had any shame left, but that went out the door the moment they voted for a convicted felon and accused rapist to run our nation.
Yes, Trump and everyone who continues to defend him are bowing to Putin. It's just that simple. They are down on their knees begging for mercy from a vile rightwing authoritarian dictator. It's truly shameful to watch, I can't imagine how embarrassing and shameful it must be to actually be the ones doing it. Truly disgusting.
Do you look closely and clearly at what you write? Putin holds all the cards, Zelensky holds none, Putin has nukes, Zelensky has none. Putting US boots on the ground in Ukraine would lead to WW3
That is what the left wants, their TDS is so severe that they are willing to sacrifice Americas youth to blame Trump for starting WW3.
Yes.
That is clearly what he and his allies want the world to believe.
I guess being an ally and business partner of the world's largest nuclear superpower amounts to nothing now that the superpower is being run by the lapdogs of a Russian dictator.
Well, our allies likely thought we'd stand up for them in a fight, but I guess any friend of the USA can't rely on us to actually stand up and defend them. What a bunch of maroons, trusting us to actually have their backs. /s
Or it would lead to a whiny little piece of shit dictator tucking his tail between his legs and fucking off because he knows we'd blow him into kingdom come if he launched nuclear weapons at a US ally. But we shouldn't test Putin because all the conservatives have already tucked their tails and ran like the little whiny weak pieces of shit they are. Such embarrassing little weak sniveling bitches just capitulating to Putin, his tiny Matryoshka doll must be addictive, after just one lick the rightwing conservative Trump supporters just can't wait to get it back in their mouths like little fascist hungry hungry hippos.
I think the US and NATO have some cards. We spent enough money on them. And they aren’t all military, either.
Comes in two forms, the worst being Trump Devotion Syndrome and that one requires a specialized tongue.
We're not paying for it with your tax dollars. We're paying for it with our great grandchildren's tax dollars.
it's a horrific new twist on taxation without representation.
How many of your own additional dollars are you willing to commit to free weapons for Ukraine?
Glad it was my grandfather and those of his ilk who chose not to kneel to fascist dictators in WWII and not the weaselly whiny Fox News conservatives of today who have apparently given up on western democracy in favor of rightwing fascism.
nothing is stopping you or your family from going to fight Putin right now. Ukraine takes foreign volunteers. Walk the walk.
It's really surprising how few progressives refuse to join the International Brigades in Ukraine despite believing Putin is a Hitleresque threat.
Are they actually allies? Is there a treaty in place? If so, why didn't Biden honor it?
Why do you think we're backing down?
No, it wouldn't. Putin is smarter than that. Donald isn't, but hey, ya can't win em all
It’s not surprising at all that progressives are too cowardly to go serve.
Wow. What a lot of melodramatic crap.
Your grandfather and mine fought a war to protect the sovereignty of our nation after we were attacked on our soil.
You still have yet to explain why you think this amounts to "kneeling to fascist dictators". BTW, just curious, where was your outrage when Obama ceded Crimea?
You never did answer how many of your dollars are you willing to commit to this?
When Ukraine runs out of men (which they will), how many of our sons are you willing to commit?
Why? So a few bleeding hearts can feel a little better in their safe beds on the other side of the world? Seriously, I thought we got over the idea of ideological wars on foreign continents back in 1974.
Possibly, but then one has to consider the future price of inaction and history is full of examples.
What future price is that?
Russia has proven outside of nuclear weapons they are not a threat to Europe much less the world.
Russian weapons sales have plummeted. Who wants their crap when they can't even take out a much smaller, weaker, third world shit hole like Ukraine?
The only future price that will be paid is if we keep poking the Russian bear and Putin decides to take it nuclear. Then the whole planet loses.
Not true.
For example:
Etc. ...
Wait.... Putin is rightwing now? And here all along I thought he was a Communist.
I think you are confusing some people....
Tyrants and Dictators can be left and rightwing simultaneously!
If you go granular on issues, people can be all over the place. But government tends to be less variable. I think that Freewill was actually making a joke. Putin is most definitely right wing and not, by any stretch of the imagination, communist.
This was generated by ChatGPT just now:
Me???
If people think that Putin is a communist, then they haven't studied history, particularly Russian history and Putin's rise to power. He has been and still is decidedly anti-communist. Which makes his more recent slide toward domestic authoritarianism beginning in 2012, through his invasion of Crimea in 2014, and his actions today in Ukraine even more disturbing as it harkens back to the sorts of tactics and characteristics typical of Stalinism.
Well Trump served his country well when he enlisted-- he fought bravely!
So why don't other Americans follow his courageous example?
Who, exactly, do you think is "sacrificing Americas youth?
And how do you think they they are doing it?
Are you serious? Trump has been bowing to Putin for the last 20 years. Trump is fascinated by dictators.
How is he ungrateful? He has said please and thank you many times.
If you want more, he’s a little busy trying to survive an invasion.
Zelensky addressed a joint session of the U.S. Congress on December 21, 2022, and he profusely thanked the U S. and the American people during his speech. Reactionary propagandists and Putinites like Trump, Vance [deleted][✘]
You sound like the guy arrested at the protest saying "what did I do?"
I won’t say what you sound like, but I notice you chose not to actually respond to the content of my question.
That’s not how it works. They get old weapons we weren’t using anyway. American weapons manufacturers get the money, to make fresh ones that we keep for ourselves. It’s going into our economy.
That is very true, and it is the primary reason why much of the money appropriated for assisting Ukraine never leaves the US. Many people, on both sides of this argument, do not understand this.
How much do we send to Israel every year?
Just under $4 billion a year and since its founding about $310 billion total adjusted for inflation.
Exactly.
Maybe he can piss Musk off today to and lose his access to the internet, Since this dumbass has decided to bite the hand that feeds him we might as well go all in.
I just want to see what happens without US aid.
[deleted][✘]
Gleefully anticipating the depravation, suffering and deaths of innocent Ukrainian civilians is Pure D MAGA Deplorablity...
That so many on the left had no problem with three years of depravation, suffering and death of innocent Ukrainian citizens and seem to care only because Trump said enough is enough is Make America Grovel Again deplorable
Where do you come up with that bullshit? Only Putin and his ass kissers have been callous to the suffering Putin has been inflicting on Ukraine and its citizens. Just Quit! It isn't working.
You do realize the war has been going on for three years don't you? You do realize there has been depravation, suffering and death of innocent Ukrainian citizens for three years don't you? You do realize that the US has been doing nothing to actually stop the war, just to give Ukraine enough to continue with the depravation, suffering and death don't you?
Stop with the outrage now, it is way too late.
What always happens when a country's main source of weapons is cutoff-- some other country will be only to glad to supply Ukraine with weapons!
My guess is predominently the UK, but there are others.
My guess is that without U.S. aid, other allies will step in.
Other countries have military equipment manufactuers. And others are not wanting to betray a friend asnd an ally.
Bite it how?
And what has Trump done for Ukraine?
Trump and his useless boot licking followers have done nothing but piss in our allies faces while cozying up to Putin.
How soon leftists forget.
Trump is the one that gave Ukraine weapons- instead of just non lethal aid like Obama.
Trump put sanctions on Russia as well during his first term; which he has increased just recently.
Don't worry, I am sure Trump won't do anything else for Ukraine. I for one am glad. We need to stop wasting our resources on third world shit holes that never give us anything in return.
Trump needs to get us out of Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia as well. No more US troops being used for target practice in the most dysfunctional sand box in the world.
But Ukraine really needs you now. They are taking everyone into military service (except Zelensky of course). Age and sex do no matter. The fascists over there have loads of experience training people how to fight.
First, I’m no leftist. Label someone else.
Second, I happily acknowledge that Trump helped them in his first term. Why don’t you condemn him for it, if it’s so clearly bad policy now?
However, at the time, and multiple times since then, Zelensky already expressed his gratitude. So, logically, if he owes Trump a thank you today, there must be some new thing Trump has done for him. What is it? I would like to know what it is that Trump has done for him in his second term that Vance is demanding thanks today.
You are regularly amusing.
Congress authorized all expenditures to Ukraine.
Trump just bombed Somalia twice in the past month. So much for "pulling out".
He just extended Russian sanctions to protect the American oil industry, period.
Trump wants Ukraine to increase their US exports beyond pig iron, pipes and seed oils to include their
lithium and titanium and innovative drone technologies.
WTF? He didn’t “come into the Oval Office.” You invited him. You also invited the media into the room.
And he’s there to get help with the war. What else is he supposed to talk about?
Trump and Vance created this scene, not Zelensky. And they’re mad at him. That’s insane.
If you looked really closely, Zelensky came in and started insulting Trump. All he had to was keep his mouth shut and pretend he is grateful for the support he has received, and what would have come later. The Ukrainians need to replace him with an adult.
If you looked really closely? I swear. The shit you people tell yourselves to justify cruelty defies belief. Not even a week ago, Trump called Zelensky a dictator and accused him of starting the war. And you’re worried about Trump’s feelings.
This man’s country has been under siege for ten years and he has been nothing gracious and grateful in asking for - and receiving - help from us.
He was outnumbered something like 30 to 1 in that room, and the president and vice president went after him like schoolyard bullies. It has to be the single most disgusting public performance by a president and vp in the history of our country.
OK, here is the whole press conference. Show me where he "came in and started insulting Trump."
His support in the Ukraine is approaching Sainthood at this hour
for showing restraint, defending his country, and living and the deceased countrymen, all murdered by Russians.
The level of disrespect in that room was palpable; imagine that asshole in the blue jacket asking in Zelinsky even owned a suit and tie as if that was somehow disrespectful to the Oval Office where Elon Musk bloviates in a teeshirt and ballcap several times a week.
Meanwhile your hero is still bloviating about past hurt feelings even going so far as to say that accusations against Trump hurt Putin's feelings.
Just when you thought the scene couldn’t get any more embarrassing.
Actually Zelinsky missed a perfect opportunity
or was perfectly retrained from saying
"You mean like President Musk who appears in the Oval Office several times a week in jeans, teeshirt and a ballcap with a "borrowed" blazer? That kind of respect?"
The next Saudi to enter a press conference will probably be called a bearded lady by our new and improved press corps.
'crickets'...
Of course you could also argue that Trump missed an opportunity.
How so?
Because for a while it looked like Trump was going to get Ukraine to give their rare earth minerals to the U.S.-- but Trump blew it!
(Now some other country-- or countries-- will get them. Probably one or more European countries)
I am convinced that Zelensky had no intention of signing over any mineral rights as the current proposal was written.
Rubio knew it and held his breath for the entire meeting.
Trump and Vance already knew it and were pissed as hell
and neither wanted to be embarrassed by the deal not being consummated.
Let's face it, they gave Zelensky the idea he could sell the rights to the highest bidder.
For those interested, Zelensky still has an interview scheduled with Brett Baier at 6 PM EST tonight, before he went off the rails.
That requires dialing into news.
Following in the American tradition of great statesman the Hillbilly and the narcissist gave a performance to the world that will live in infamy.
[deleted][✘]
Morning... didn't think I would see the day a US president would cozy up to the Russians and North Koreans aka rocket man if I recall correctly.... wonder if Iran will be next..
When we start sending pallets of cash to Iran again, be worried.
I don't know what WH event YOU watched but it wasn't Zelinsky who "went off the rails" IMHO
and he did quite well explaining himself to Brett Baier because Brett never interrupted him or talked down to him or over him.
The people on the set also refrained from putting their two cents in, unlike the VP and onlookers in the Oval office.
Despite the splitting headache Marc Rubio appeared to have throughout the WH event
he dutifully kissed Trump's ass afterwards
Baier gave him 3 chances to apologize. Zelensky never got there.
What is Zelensky supposed to apologize for ? Because he didnt accept Trumps insults and kiss his feet?
EVERYONE is always supposed to apologize to Trump. Always. In 10 years in the news every damn day, Trump has never apologized a single time even though he has insulted, by name, hundreds of people on his social media.
When has Trump ever apologized Vic ? Even once.
Our country is in disgrace at this minute, and you want someone to apologize to the piece of human shit we know as Donald Trump?
And you call yourself a patriotic American ?
Apologize for what? Exactly what is he supposed to apologize for?
Vance, most of all, and Trump, should be apologizing to him. On What Planet does behaving like a gangster entitle you to an apology? I watched the whole press conference. Zelensky did nothing untoward. He did thank the president at the beginning of the conversation. He thanked the American people. He thanked all of the countries that have given Ukraine aid. But about 42 minutes in JD Vance comes in from the couch and starts throwing you're not thankful "enough" vibes around, then Trump digs in and they're off on a tag team we are better than you and you are nothing without us... What a fucking pugilistic display. They might as well have been rubbing their crotches on his face in a dominance dance...
But he never lost his cool and composed demeanor. He was the statesman in the room. Not the two thugs who were acting like they just scored all of their pimps cash.
That you are proud of this tasteless display brings me no surprise at all.
I don't care if he apologizes to Trump or not. The fact remains, however, is that he disrespected the American people in the people's house, and he needs to apologize to the American people for doing so.
We all know that if Zelensky did the same to Biden, or, God forbid, Obama, you leftists would be screeching at the top of your lungs that he needs to do a public apology on tv in primetime and that his country put the apology on loop on all of their tv stations 24 hours a day into infinity.
He knows that if we withdraw our support, he won't last more than a month or so.
He needs to come back to the table and accept terms that allow for peace and also what is beneficial to America, since we did almost everything, with the exception of providing troops, to keep Putin from fully taking the country.
How ? Tell us how, specifically, Zelensky disrespected the American people. By defending himself from Trump and Vance's attack on him? The whole thing is on video. What sentence did Zelensky say that disrespected the American people?
Seeing people claim Zelenskyy did nothing wrong is the equivalent of watching the falcons claim they did nothing wrong in blowing a 28-3 halftime lead in the Super Bowl. Zelensky self destructed and blew billions of dollars for his country, End of story,
Whoever advised Zelensky that was how to behave, if anyone did, committed the worst diplomatic screwup in decades. Personally, I think Zelensky went rogue and thought he could play to Europe and left wing media by trying to score points on Vance without attacking trump directly. He FAFO. Guy put his own pride before the welfare of his country.
As Jeff blehar wrote, “if the fate of my country depended on my ability to successfully manage an alcoholic, then that might be unfair to me and my country but you bet I'd work pretty carefully in advance on my strategies. The task is what it is.” Zelensky failed his task.
“During war, everybody has problems, even you, but you have a nice ocean and don’t feel now, but you will feel it in the future."
you got a real nice country here trump….shame when something happens to it,,
When has Trump ever apologized Vic ? Even once.
For a Trump sycophant that would be like demanding an apology from Jesus.
People are getting tired of your "realism" crap. Trump is an evil buffoon, who demanded that Zelensky thank him personally. Thank him for what? Trump has never done anything for Ukraine. He hates Ukraine for reasons mostly associated with far right conspiracy theories related to both of Trumps first two elections. He literally admitted yesterday that he feels personal solidarity with Putin because of "what they have gone through together".
JD Vance and Trump attacked Zelensky, and your advice to him is shut up and take it. How could he face his own people back in Ukraine if he submissively let Trump and Vance insult him?
Nonetheless Zelensky never really raised his voice, all the voice raising was done by Trump, who only proved his mental instability.
I've seen or heard many people not named Zelensky say essentially the same thing, including many Republicans who have since gone belly up in subservience to Trump.
By taking an invitation to the Oval Office and turning it into a shitshow by making demands he knew would not get accepted and arguing with the President of the United States.
The White House is the people's house and the president works for the American people, no matter how much you hate him, therefore, that disrespect calls for an apology to the American people.
I'm sure you would say the same thing about Biden and Obama if they said the exact same thing the exact same way under the exact same circumstances s/
People are getting tired of your "realism" crap
as opposed to your let’s [deleted] [✘] and pretend there’s no such thing as reality and that we can make the world behave how we want just by wishing real hard crap?
Trump has never done anything for Ukraine
Ukraine exists at this moment because trump Armed it after Obama refused.
How could he face his own people back in Ukraine if he submissively let Trump and Vance insult him?
Trump and Vance were playing nice and ignored zelensky digs for the first first half hour. Then Vance extolled diplomacy and ending the war and zelensky went after Vance and the meeting spiraled from there.
regardless, he could have gone home with billions in aid.
Zelensky may have sabotaged the meeting on purpose. He obviously doesn’t want peace and wants to continue the war until he achieved total Victory. Trump sees what the world sees. Ukraine is losing day by day and doesn’t have the manpower to win, absent some sort of miracle.
As that Ukrainian expert pointed out, Ukraine has three options. 1.Win by getting American troops on the ground. 2. Fight until it’s armies are destroyed and Russia conquers the country or 3. Negotiate a settlement and start building up again. 1 is off the table so 3 is the best choice. Trump knows that and is basing all his efforts around that. . Zelensky doesn’t want peace so no deal is possible. He wants war and will get it.
It’s sad to say, but Ukraine is going to regret refusing to negotiate a settlement. Half a loaf of Bread,is better than none,
BEFORE Zelensky came to Washington yesterday, but after the meeting was announced, Zelensky said there would be no agreement on minerals that did not include security guarantees for Ukraine. He said that two or three days ago. Clearly he came to see Trump with the idea in mind that he would convince Trump to give him some sort of security guarantee. I guess he was naive based on everything everyone knows about Trump. Nothing he said in that meeting was untrue from the Ukrainian perspective.
-
And Trump made it clear before that would not happen.
Why come to the White House with the idea you are going to demand something you know damn well you are not going to get it.
Even his ambassador knew he screwed up judging by the viral pictures of her response during the exchange.
Would not surprise me if she resigns.
My bet is Zelensky will be bac in less than a month accepting the terms of the US.
The United States continued support of Ukraine would be a "card" they would be holding in peace negotiations. If the US said "we'll do this for 20 years if we have to" Putin would see no reason to keep attacking. If you cant see that Trump has sided with Russia God help you. As long as Ukraine wants to fight we should be helping them. And peace negotiations could commence regardless.
There was no disrespect. It is ridiculous to say Zelensky disrespected the American people yesterday.
The more I think about it, the more i think zelensky simply refuses to entertain the idea of a diplomatic solution and believes he’s entitled to endless amounts of aid until Russia is somehow defeated.
trumps willing to give Ukraine aid until a compromise Settlement can be reached, but the aid is conditioned on working towards an end to the war. He’s obviously not going to borrow money to finance years of war.
Someone will have to give, and the need is much more pressing on Ukraines part.
Even if we could afford to do that, the limiting factor isn't money. Ukraine doesn't have the manpower. It can't even maintain the territory it does have right now because of the manpower shortage.
Only because it was Trump. If it were Obama or Biden, you would demand Zelensky never return to the US and that the US stop giving all aid.
If there was disrespect by a foreign leader in the Oval Office, it is disrespect to the American people. No way around it.
Then make the claim that it was him that defeated Russia.
"Someone will have to give, and the need is much more pressing on Ukraines part."
Agree. Europe has done very little compared the what they could be doing and Ukraine needs us far more than we need them.
Giving the President of the United States a history lesson on Russia violating treaties.
I'm sure you would stand for fucking Obama being treated that way.
They've been on notice for decades with regards to who Putin is. I'm sure they've been preparing their military to step up for years.
Lol.
Giving the President of the United States a history lesson on Russia violating treaties.
I would, if he were as glaringly inaccurate about history as Trump is.
You still do not understand. Trump showed Americans to be week, to have their principles available for sale to the highest bidder or the strongest Taker. What an epic foreign policy blunder.
Everyone has to accommodate Trump every time all the time. Its like stepping in dog shit you cant get off the bottom of your shoe.
lol. False.
Normally I would laugh at using MSDNC as a source, but let's say this is true.....
The US is one country.
How many countries make up the EU? 27
138 billion divided by 27 equals.....approximately 5.1 billion......on average per country.
My post stands.
Your rebuttal ridiculous.
Hilarious...
Gee I wonder which is more, 2.5% of a multi-billion dollar gdp or .5% of a multi trillion dollar gdp?... /s
lol, again. You’ve just been shown to be completely wrong in the statement you pulled out of your ass with zero research. Another pathetic example of NT conservatism. Btw, Europe is only slightly larger than the US.
and how much is military aid?
Meanwhile your hero buffoon keeps running around claiming numbers three times higher than reality, and demanding repayment of what wasn’t even a loan at four times reality.
LOL. I feel ashamed to have such a moron President in the oval office, but I do not feel disrespected by Zelinsky in the slightest. The only ones who might feel disrespected are those who have their heads shoved so far up their Dear Leaders ass that they thought they were the ones being given a history lesson and having to be corrected like the dumb shit President we have was.
Those who feel disrespected need to have their heads examined because they clearly don't know the meaning of the word.
We should be apologizing to Zelinsky for electing a President that needs a history lesson on Russia and violating treaties. Trump is SOOOOOO fucking stupid it's truly insane that anyone with more than half a brain would continue supporting such a total stupid piece of shit like Trump.
... and there you go.
Apologize for what? Having the temerity to stay in his chair and not walk out?
Having the restraint to not slap Trump's hand away when Trump touched him?
Having the temerity to not tell JD Vance he's just the VP, STFU?
No VP has ever broken protocol like that before, like Rubio they are to be seen and not heard from.
pssst, Bugsy. Look at the graph on the left...
Honestly, I wish Rubio had spoken up and tried to calm everyone down a little. Instead he just sat there like a kid watching his dad slap his mom around.
This is how you calculate generosity?
Try this thought experiment: Who is more generous? The day laborer who gives ten dollars? Or the billionaire who gives fifty?
I say it’s the former because he gives a greater percentage of his wealth. His is a greater sacrifice.
Now look at that graph up there. It’s organized by a percentage of GDP. That is a much fairer approach than just raw dollars per country, as you suggest. On this percentage basis, the US is way down the list at 17.
Uh, actually, you are wrong....again.
The entirety of EU aid is only 18 billion more than what the US has given.
I correctly showed you that each of the 27 EU countries gave an average of 5.5 billion, a drop in the bucket.
[deleted][✘]
Meh....most Americans felt the same about the dementia in chief, but you, et al heralded him as the best president ever.
Delusional at best.
"but I do not feel disrespected by Zelinsky in the slightest."
Only because it was Trump...If it had been Obama being disrespected in the exact same way under the exact same circumstances by the exact same person, you would be screaming at the top of your lungs that Zelensky disrespected your hero (never mind the American people" and demand that all aid be stopped
[deleted][✘]
[deleted][✘]
Good, we occasionally agree.
That comment is delusional. Diplomatic negotiations aren't conducted during meetings in the Oval office in front of member of press including TASS.
No other POTUS would ever have made this stupid diplomatic blunder.
They lasted for a year without material support from the US.
They lasted almost three years under stupid restrictions from US, UK, France and Germany that they could not fire donated missiles at Russia in retaliation or offensive operations.
They lasted almost three years on donated MIGs before they received a trickle of F16s
They chased the Russian Navy out of Kaliber missile range without US help.
They used their own S200 and S300s to largely keep Russia out of Ukraine's airspace
and they invaded the Oblast of Kursk and Russia has had a very hard time dealing with that.
They have advanced the science of drones on land sea and air by leaps and bounds without US help.
he needs to do what is best for Ukrainains
more delusional commentary.
He needs to unite Europe to supply those troops, period.
But then he went full Lindsay afterwards. Just another meat sack.
The first POTUS to ever openly say he trusts Putin over the FBI and the CIA and our allies....a wet dream for Valdimir.
No other POTUS in history would have had such a meeting on public TV with the reporter from TASS in the room. All the more reason to believe that this was an ambush.
By the way your comment was a fine example of "whataboutism".
That's right. And that is why Zelensky was advised by his own staff not to try it.
"No other POTUS would ever have made this stupid diplomatic blunder."
Then we are still at zero presidents making a blunder because it was Zelensky that made the blunder. Most thinking military experts agree. The only ones that are triggered reside on MSDNC and CNN.
"No other POTUS would ever have made this stupid diplomatic blunder."
Barely and thanks to Biden
"hey lasted almost three years under stupid restrictions that they could not fire missiles at Russia in retaliation"
Again, thanks to Biden.
Face it. If they were given weapons they needed from the start, Russia could have had their military decimated far sooner and this war would have ended already...with a Ukraine victory.
Your dementia president refused to allow that to happen.
"he needs to do what is best for Ukrainains"
No argument from me, however, he needs to concede some demands and take some American demands in return.
[deleted]
"[✘] He needs to unite Europe to supply those troops, perio"
Not a US problem. It is a EU problem.
"
Wasn't it members of these intel agencies that said the Hunter laptop was disinformation.
Yea, they should be held at the highest regard for that fuck up s/
Wow. Your mathematical limitations are stifling. Perhaps learn how to apply %gdp to your analyses.
I don't think that can be accomplished simply by removing ones shoes and socks ...
[deleted][✘]
Mmmm, that would show that Americans have given more than any other country. Wouldn't it?
On the chart that MSDNC is trying to pass off, at most, it lists about 10 EU countries. There are 27 countries in the EU. Where does the other 17 or so stand with their GDP offerings?
Hmmmmmmmm
10.2.48 stays as member addressed replied about 3 minutes later, flag by another member dismissed.
Maybe a color diagram will help you and any of our google challenged members.
Apologize for what? He was attacked by Trump and Vance.
Zelensky was cordial whereas Trump and Vance were assholes. It was disgraceful ... an embarrassment for our nation. This is a fine litmus test for blind Trump support.
Your opinion. Others see it the correct way.
Stating a fact seems reasonable to me.
Nor should he, he has nothing to apologize for....but since we are on the subject, when was the last time you saw trump apologize....for anything?
Jesus I bet Reagan is rolling in his grave watching republicans roll over for Putin.
First of all, the USSR and their leaders like Gorbachev whom Reagan dealt with in his time were decidedly communist and vehemently anti-west in terms of political ideology and economic policy. Putin would have been seen as a very welcome contrast to that back in that time.
Second, who says republicans are rolling over for Putin? Do you imagine that the agreement for a cease fire and lasting peace will hand Russia EVERYTHING that they want? Ain't going to happen. Do you imagine that even with US and European financial and weapons support that Ukraine can defeat Russia and get EVERYTHING that they want? Ain't going to happen. So as far as putting an end to this sooner rather than later, saving tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of lives on both sides, what is so wrong with compromise?
What happened in the oval office was fucked up no matter who one might believe was at fault, but let's not lose sight of what really matters here. There are many many lives in the balance should this war drag on.
Please do link such a post from me. Since you can't, because I know I've never said anything close to such a thing, perhaps you can defend your own pick for President without having to try and create some false equivalency and "what-about-ism" because guess what? Biden isn't fucking President anymore and you clinging to Biden bullshit shows how the right can't defend their own Presidents actions on their own because they're clearly unhinged. All they have is an attempt at distraction because they know they fucked us by electing Trump. They know they fucked our country and fucked themselves, but they'll never admit it, they're far too proud to admit the truth.
Wrong. Total bullshit. Putin back was an anti-democracy piece of shit then just like he is now.
Any person with more than half a brain who doesn't have their head stuffed up Donald Trumps ass.
Pretty much. Trump loves Putin and will give them anything they want. If someone doesn't understand that reality, then clearly, they have their head shoved up Trumps ass and can't see anything let alone the truth. Also, there is no deal for "lasting peace" that Trump will be a part of. I really can't imagine how delusional someone would have to be to believe that kind of insanity.
Not just with financial weapons, but if we put our full force into helping our ally Ukraine then Putin would back down. But of course, with apparently half the nation sucking Putin's cock and bowing before their Russian imperial master who their Dear Leader trump is bowing before, I guess it's not a fight we'll be able to win.
Half the nation wants to put Putin on trial for his crimes and see him hung as the vile murderous dictator he is, and we know we have the strongest military in the world and could hold him accountable if we wanted to. The other half want to suck his rightwing conservative white nationalist cock because that's apparently what they love, getting down on their hands and knees and begging Putin to stop, but only if he wants to because his pleasure is clearly all they fucking think about.
Ukraine would have gotten a much better peace deal with the US continuing to stand beside them and behind them than what they're going to get from Trump.
Ukraine doesn't have to "win" the war. They just have to keep Russia from winning it.
Trump has all but openly declared his solidarity with Putin. He said yesterday that he has a bond with Putin because they went through so much together. Anyone who thinks Trump is going to fight for the best possible deal for Ukraine is out of their minds.
Possibly, but were we heading in the direction of a peace deal or simply sending more money and providing longer range weapons creating a deeper hole that was going to be more difficult to negotiate out of?
OK but at what cost? What do you suppose will be left of Ukraine by the time Russia surrenders?
You could be right about Trump perhaps not fighting for the best possible deal for Ukraine. But I don't think folks need to be out of their minds to suggest that some sort of reasonable deal or compromise might be better than a long and dangerous war that takes many thousands of lives and could escalate beyond Ukraine.
I do appreciate you responding to my comments with a more rational and reasonable response and demeanor than some others here might have.
I am waiting to see evidence of an actual peace deal. Thus far I have only seen Trump try to bully the nation who was invaded and parrot Putin's talking points.
I want this war to end but not by giving Putin what he wants and thus justifying his actions.
Understood. Me too.
Yeah that shit show in the oval office was unbelievable. I was hoping we would have gotten a glimpse of a possible road to peace in that meeting, but no, Trump and Vance had to blow that up.
Same here. But I don't think it will result in him getting everything he wants, do you? Ukraine and Europe would still need to agree to it right?
Not wrong. Check the history.
Nice! Can we have an adult conversation here, or is that too much to ask?
And how is he going to be able to do that? Ukraine and Europe will need to agree to the terms and there will need to be clear consequences for Putin with respect to violating those terms and establishing that lasting peace.
What sort of "full force" are you talking about? And what evidence do you have that Putin will back down if that sort of force is applied?
I will refrain from addressing the remainder of your post and apparent fixation on fellatio. Have a great evening.
The operative words here are "back in that time". Putin was seen as something new when he arrived on the scene. It was reported in the US media that he was a low to mid-level KGB employee. But that was in the 90's, not the 1981-89 period when Reagan was PotUS. As not much was known about specific players in the post cold war Russia (at least to the general public), from what I remember a "wait-and-see" attitude was adopted.
Are there really Republicans still? It seems to me that the Republican Party has disintegrated. In my estimation, anyone who still considers themselves a Republican is either a Trumpster or they are lost in time. The party was remade last year in Trump's image.
I don't think that anyone seriously thinks that Russia will be made to pay for all the damage that it has caused Ukraine or give all the territory that it has accumulated since 2014 back to Ukraine. I do think that there has to be a negotiated settlement and some type of system put in place to make sure that the armistice or treaty of peace, whichever is obtained to stop the fighting, is observed by both sides. Putin has proven over and over again that his word is as good as Trump's, which is to say, not at all. So the question that we must all ask ourselves is, "Where do we go from here?"
Family photo?
You couldn't be more wrong. Putin couldn't be more anti-west. The idea that Putin is some sort of "welcome contrast" is total bullshit as anyone with more than half a brain and any knowledge of history will tell you with the only exceptions being those who are in Putin's pocket or simply want to see rightwing white nationalist authoritarians grow in power globally.
Considering one side elected a petulant 5-year-old as President as was shown in this embarrassing display from the oval office, it's hard not to address Trump's defenders with a certain level of disdain and disrespect. To do otherwise would be validating their blatant stupidity and what amounts to rightwing fascist fan fiction which is all I hear these days coming from Trump defenders and those on the right. It's disgusting and I'm frankly sick of it.
You're joking right? And who the fuck is going to enforce any "clear consequences" for Putin when Trump just bent over and spread his cheeks for his favorite Russian dictator giving Putin the green light to do whatever the fuck he wants in Ukraine and the rest of Europe, the guard rails are off now that the US has backed off and shows not only no intention of standing up to Putin but a clear signal of complete and utter capitulation.
Full force as in accepting Ukraine into NATO and declaring that the FULL FUCKING FORCE of the US Military will stand behind our allies. And yes, I do think Putin would back down rather than starting WWIII as so many disgusting Russian apologists have been fucking crying about for the last few days as if it's all up to Putin whether we all live or die. Disgusting traitors.
If you have a problem seeing the analogy that's your problem. It's as fitting a description for what Trump and his allies are doing to Putin as can be described.
Exactly! That was my point! I will concede that Putin has grown more anti-west, or more accurately, distrustful of the west, in recent years, but there is history to that as well. I certainly think it is reasonable to consider him a tyrant given his actions in the last decade but during the cold war he would have been considered more friendly to the west than the communist leaders of the USSR.
Thats a good question too. Might be a few but the party was dead to me the moment they endorsed Trump as their candidate the first time.
The best example I can give you is the expressed belief by the Trump team that Ukraine doesn't hold any "cards" , but you never hear them say that Russia doesn't hold any cards. The US standing on Ukraines side would be a big "card" in their hand, but no one is currently talking about the US sticking with Ukraine. Instead Trump , by all appearances is having the US take the position that both sides are equally guilty of responsibility for the war. A peace negotiation that rewards an invading force will inevitably lead to guerrilla warfare in the Ukrainian territory Russia will get to keep.
Trump wont even admit Russia invaded Ukraine. How is he the person to negotiate a peace?
If the USA pulls out, that will give Putin a major advantage to get what he wants.
The absence of USA might will likely increase the intensity and bloodshed.
Then why for the past three years was there no attempt by the US to end the war?
That would keep the war going. We did that. Ukraine is now losing.
A peace negotiation that rewards an invading force will inevitably lead to guerrilla warfare in the Ukrainian territory Russia will get to keep.
You want to keep fighting, you got it.
Trump wont even admit Russia invaded Ukraine.
He admitted it every time he said that Putin wouldn't have invaded if he was President.
In a way, I could see the USA pulling out as being an seen as a green light to Putin and an instigator of WWIII...
But then again, the possibilities are multiple.
I suspect the strategy was to end the war through force. There is no way for us to know the underlying details of the strategy.
I applaud a diplomatic end to the war. One thing that I thought Trump might be able to pull off positively (when he was elected) was to bring this war to a negotiated end where both sides lost but have terms they can live with.
It is clear that Trump is the opposite of a diplomat and after the Oval office disaster (on top of his prior idiocy when he publicly stated that Ukraine started the war and that Zelensky was a dictator with a 4% approval rating) it is clear that Trump and Vance are either trying to blow up diplomacy or they are both entirely incompetent.
The long-term strategy of the USA serving as leader of the free world is fundamentally compromised by us abandoning Ukraine at this point.
The US pulling out both diplomatically and militarily will most likely cause European neighbors to rally more to Ukraine (it is in their best interest to do so) and this war will be prolonged and expanded. The situation will grow substantial worse.
It is dangerous having Trump as PotUS. He is an incompetent buffoon who is used to bullying and bullshitting his way through real estate transactions. This blowhard either does not comprehend diplomacy or flat out does not care (actually, likely both).
What a fucking mess Trump voters have made.
SO the theory is Putin spending three years and losing a significant portion of his conventional army while struggling to take over less than 25% of Ukraine will see that as a greenlight to launch WWIII?
Okay....
If their theory is to make Trump look bad and blame him for ANYTHING, then yes......that is the theory.
I just read a report that said in 2022, Biden lost his temper to Zelensky in a phone call to give him news that the US would provide 1B in assistance. Then Zelensky started to dictate other items that he needed. That is where Biden told him he needed to be grateful for what he was getting at the time.
This is very similar to the incident the other day, but I can't find any seeds by NT members or any leftists making the claim that Biden was the one that was disrespectful, etc.
I also know that if it were Harris in the White House and the exact same incident happened, the left would be screaming for Zelensky's head and calling him a racist and nazi, much like they did when the was first broke out.
No it is not. A public spectacle in the Oval office (especially one that is shocking) has far more negative impact than a rumored private negotiation gone sour.
Comments like these are like the sickeningly predictable patterns in commercial greeting cards. It is mechanical and thoughtless. It is the result of not having an actual argument.
Thing is, this kind of disaster is so easy to happen with a loose-cannon, celebrity whore like Trump. It is extremely unlikely to occur with Harris. Note that this is the first time in US history where such as terrible display has taken place publicly. All other PotUS understood what it means to be presidential and considered the historical and future roles of the USA. Not Trump. He does not care what he fucks up in terms of tradition, perception, etc. He is out to appeal to his base. He is a narcissistic showman who apparently does not give one shit about the fallout from his words and deeds.
Trump is a disaster. You continue to attempt to defend a buffoon who is damaging our nation.
Of course you think it is a rumor, however, you believed every word Vindman told you of Trump's phone call to Zelensky.
"Comments like these are like the sickeningly predictable patterns in commercial greeting cards. It is mechanical and thoughtless. It is the result of not having an actual argument."
Obviously you missed the point. Let me put it this way...If it were ANY democrat, the same would apply and you, et al, would be having meltdowns over Zelensky being disrespectful. There is no argument. We have seen your side in action with these double standard scenarios.
" It is extremely unlikely to occur with Harris."
Because she has a D.
The rest of your rant is ridiculous.
“ Of course you think it is a rumor,”
i’d say it’s more than just a rumor.
Looks like a pattern with midgetman. No matter what we give it’s never enough. Fuck him.
Another post from you where you make shit up.
As I noted, you are wrong yet again. Your comments seem to be scripted from a very simplistic stereotype. That is why they are so frequently off base.
No, because she is rational and would be presidential ... similar to our historical presidents other than Trump.
Trump is clown. It was irresponsible, irrational, and unpatriotic to vote for the buffoon and it is even worse to continue defending this narcissistic prick no matter what he does.
From your link:
That is what a rumor is. "According to four people familiar with the call."
And even if this happened as described, it was in private and as described is nowhere near the unpresidential disaster in diplomacy that just took place in the Oval office.
Trump is unfit for office and you et. al. keep defending this buffoon no matter what he does or says.
You have your opinion, i have mine.
You can almost feel bad for gullible Zelensky. He probably thinks Democrats like Murphy care about Ukraine. They don't. It's just a tool to "get Trump."
I've seen multiple outlets report on Biden losing his temper during that phone call.
To continue to believe it is simply a rumor is delusional at best.
Nothing made up but you go ahead and believe that.
"As I noted, you are wrong yet again. Your comments seem to be scripted from a very simplistic stereotype. That is why they are so frequently off base."
Nope, not this time either, but this just drips with irony.
"No, because she is rational and would be presidential "
Yes because the constant word salads proved that s/
The rest of your rant is ridiculous.
I can assure you that if the president involved were Biden or Obama, Harris, Murphy would be the first person in front of a camera stating how presidential that person was and every left winger here would be calling Zelensky a racist , nazi, or white supremacist...or all of the above and posts similar to 10.2.89 would look completely different than they do..
You are focusing on one largely irrelevant aspect.
What is important is that Trump engaged in a historically unique public disaster in presidential behavior.
You ignore this, of course, because it is indefensible. But you ignoring reality does not make it go away.
I've seen some of the things that you call Harris word salads and they are nothing of the kind.
MAGA just says things with no basis and relies on their echo chamber to spread the disinformation.
The irony
Partisan fantasy.
Trump has set a new low for a PotUS. No PotUS in recent history (and likely our entire history) has engaged in such a public failure in presidential demeanor and diplomacy. Instead of defending this asshole, he should be criticized.
I cannot even imaging Biden, Obama, or Harris engaging in such a despicable level of unpresidential / undiplomatic behavior with an ally as we saw with Trump and Vance. It is an embarrassment that this buffoon is our president.
The only people that have publicly come out and declare this are left wing nut cases that have no other response, except for...but Truuuuump.
My entire post stands as is.
"You ignore this, of course, because it is indefensible."
Or ore likely, you attack because it is Trump and no other reason.
"But you ignoring reality does not make it go away."
Ditto
Your opinion says a lot, but it is purely fantasy.
Murphy is also the guy who had a secret, illegal meeting with the Iranian foreign minister while Trump was President to buck up Iran's resolve.
Seems like he's making a habit of conducting his own foreign policy to in opposition to the US Government.
Murphy is also the guy that said illegals are “the people we care most about.”
Connecticut must be so proud.... /s
I tend to believe that it likely did happen as described in the NBC report based on multiple other sources at that time, Oct 2022. There were multiple reports of the Biden Administration weighing the distribution of arms to Ukraine very carefully, as they should have, and the impatience of Zelenskyy with the process. It wasn't just Republicans urging caution in the level of military support at that time, but some progressives in Congress as well, as is also covered in the NBC article.
The bolded part of your comment is absolutely correct, and is really the most important part of this particular argument, particularly if the president's stated goal is to come to an agreement ASAP and end the hostilities. The shit show in the oval office will have the exact opposite effect.
Exactly. And thanks for emphasizing my point.
[✘]
Trump just made Zelensky the biggest underdog in world history. The entire world is rallying behind him and Ukraine.
Europe has unfortunately made the mistake that many countries have made after Covid by electing right wing ideologues which is only now being realized as a terrible mistake.
Europe after suffering 2 World Wars has woken up to the threat that Trump has caused with the abandonment of Ukraine and embrace of Russia and other dictatorships.
The rapidly uniting coalition behind Ukraine will only grow larger in the coming days.
Trump just isolated America, and gave up our standing in the world.
Trump just did that and the consequences cannot be blamed on anyone but Trump himself.
Good the rest of the world can go to fight; and waste their military resources and money.
If Trump accomplished that- he is far smarter than I gave him credit for.
Hope the incompetent morons rushing to Ukraine's defense don't start WWIII. Russia still has nukes; and those think Putin is afraid to us them are the same calling for boots on the ground in Ukraine.
Have fun in the New North Korea.
That reminds me of the American Revolution and to a lesser extent The Civil War. Ironic.
It would be an accident, no smarts required, just arrogance.
WWIII has been simmering for 30 years. Russia has nukes and probably won't use them for the same reason that the other countries who don't admit to having nukes, probably won't use them either.
Russia can't fly a plane anywhere near Ukraine. Most of the ground war is static waiting for spring. The Russian Navy with all of it's Kaliber missile launchers are either sunk or hiding far from Ukraine.
Ukraine technology is imminently better and more quickly developed and modified to reach further and further into Russia. The Russians are dying at twice the rate of the Ukrainian's and THAT is unsustainable.
Presently the Ukranian Foreign Legion has 20,000 volunteers from 52 countries fighting on the front lines.
That will probably increase dramatically as spring arrives and the USA disappears... into isolationism.
Geez you have been bleating the last three years about the same crap over and over...
You said at the start the war would be over in days...the glorious Russians would wipe Ukraine off the map...
And here we are 3 years down the road and you are still flapping your gums over it...
If you think Trump is smart them you really do need to lift your intelligence level, it really is most unbecoming for you...
God I love it when you get gloriously indignant!
I had my Vegemite toast this morning...
Hold an election you dictator piece of garbage Zelenskyy.
[deleted]
He would have but some Russian bastard who should have been drowned at birth invaded his country...
The elections should have been held in Spring 2024 but Ukraine was a bit busy at the time...
And there is another countries leader who tends to turn orange when chucking a hissy fit should have followed suit...and done the world a bloody big favour...
Putin is famous for Russia's free and fair elections, right?
Funny (Not Funny) Vlad's opponents fell out of windows...
Yet strangely enough here in America and numerous other countries we fought 2 world wars and several other conflicts and managed to hold elections on time.
A Russian polling booth coming to you soon...
And so did we...America was not attacked on the mainland or with boots on the ground...it's a bit different when it is on your door step and not thousands of ks away...
A bit hard to compare when you have bombs dropping on you and have enemy troops in your country fighting hand to hand..so you are going to stop and go and cast your ballot?
Come on George you can do a bit better than that one...
It's not strange at all. None of those wars were being waged on US soil. Holding elections at that time was no more difficult than it usually is. Ukraine is a battlefield. The logistics of holding an election under those conditions are absurd, and I fully expect that even if they did try to have an election, Russia would just bomb the polling places.
If the electric is on.
If the air raid sirens aren't blaring.
If the polling place is standing and not burning or on the other side of the bridge that was just destroyed.
If you aren't too hungry or too cold to face the gauntlet to even go outside.
Doubtful.
How, exactly? And why is he a piece of garbage?
Also, is Putin not a "dictator piece of garbage?"
Putin hasn’t suspended elections, [deleted,] [✘] America does not! Maybe that’s why they thought they could appoint a candidate.
He hasn’t had to! His whole country isn’t a battlefield like Ukraine is.
Ukraine is under martial law because of the war and elections - both for president and parliament - are suspended by law, as a result.
The people of Ukraine support the suspension of elections.
72% of Ukrainians believe that elections should be held after war - KIIS poll.
You still haven’t explained exactly how Ukraine is supposed to have an election under current conditions.
By the way, almost no one thinks any election in Russia is a legitimate one.
I’m not a democrat and you have presented no evidence that Zelensky is a dictator.
Speaking of dictators, the last serious political opposition to Putin was poisoned and died in prison.
Seriously? Are you fucking with us right now? Do you honestly believe Russia has had any "free and fair" elections in the last two decades?
That's the kind of disgusting scum bag authoritarians that apparently some Trump supporters are siding with. Personally, I think those who are siding with and defending Putin and Russia should stand trial as traitors and when found guilty be given the Navalny treatment. I'm sure a little nerve agent dumped in their underwear wouldn't hurt, right?
I think this is a Tucker Carlson talking point thing. At least, that’s where I first saw it. I saw a clip a couple of days ago of that imbecile talking about this very thing and how we managed to have elections during WWII, so why can’t Zelensky?
And when I saw him say it, I just thought, is he really that stupid? He’s an educated person. He’s got to know better. Are the people who listen to him that stupid? I mean they all know we didn’t fight WWII within the borders of our own country. Surely, I thought, no one is going to buy that bullshit.
And yet, here we are.
No, he needs viewers at any cost to his soul, just like Jones and Bannon.
Unfortunately there are people who we know by self proclaimed professions that would have to have college degrees and state licensing who not only believe it but spread the bullshit by hand.
So you really don't know why he's not holding elections now? Suggestion: You really should try to keep up with the news.
Here's why:
Ukraine parliament affirms no elections during wartime in rebuff to Trump
The resolution passed on Tuesday is a rebuff to Trump and Putin.
KYIV, Ukraine -- Ukraine's parliament has passed a resolution affirming the legitimacy of Volodymyr Zelenskyy as president and confirming that elections are not possible until after the war ends.
The resolution is a rebuff to U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, who have both suggested Zelenskyy is illegitimate because he has not held elections during the war with Russia.
Zelenskyy said on Sunday he would step down if it meant peace for his country, adding he would also do so if it meant Ukraine would be granted NATO membership.
The parliament noted on Tuesday that Zelenskyy was elected in legitimate elections and his mandate is not in doubt. It also said that no elections can be held until the lifting of martial law after the coming of a "just and lasting peace."
Zelenskyy was elected in a landslide in 2019, but his term expired last May. Ukraine is under martial law which under its constitution forbids the holding of elections.
Zelensky did as well as he could without losing his and Ukraine's self respect. Europe is more united than ever as the US fades in respect...
Just watching the recaps, what does Trump have on Lindsey Graham?
SMH!
When You are asked to show proof you are spending Money properly...
[Deleted]
What, if anything, has Melania said about all this?
Russian here and Russian there..Russian bits everywhere...
When you're asked to show proof you are spending the money properly...
Unfortunately not my photo, but I like what I see..
When You are asked to show proof you are spending Money properly...
When you're asked to show proof you are spending the money properly..
Crikey....glad that's not my photo... it's enough to make a person chunder...
It's also a very doctored photo.............
[ deleted ] [ ✘ ] I know just how he feels
And I made 40,000,000,000 by working from home and screwing my country, it's citizens and allies..
Learn how..you have got to be proud..
I am sure everyone has been in Zelensky's position many times during their life although not with the stakes so high. Kiss the ass of someone that has something you want/need in hopes of getting it or act in a way that you know will not get you what you want/need.
Zelensky made his choice.
That being said it is my opinion that what the US and Europe have done to Ukraine border on the criminal. Giving Ukraine just enough to continue the war but not win the war is just cruel. They should have given what Ukraine needed to win or not done anything. Everyone knew Putin didn't care about how many Russian lives were lost and he would eventually win a war of attrition. Many lives and infrastructure would still be there if Ukraine's "allies" just let things happen. Now it seems we will end up in the same place anyway with billions spent, thousands of lives lost and no place to go home to anyway.
The only possible positive coming from this fiasco is Sweden and Finland being given NATO membership.
No, he most certainly didn't. He was put out in front of people and talked over by Trump and Vance. He was not given the chance to state his case but instead was told that he was insufficiently grateful, that he held no cards. He was not given the opportunity to refute the misleading statements, though he clearly wanted to. Through it all, he maintained his composure even though Trump and Vance were tag-teaming him verbally. We could only wish to have such a leader on our side. Instead we get bullies.
I agree fully with the first few sentences. As soon as it became apparent that Ukraine was not going to immediately fold, all of the nations of NATO should have acted decisively. Every delivery of aid seemed to arrive late, and the delays in the US were ridiculously so.
Of course he did. He went there knowing he was not going to get what he wanted.
Personally I have to question the wisdom of the meeting at all.
Everyone knew what Trump wanted (mineral rights) and everyone knew what Zelensky needed ( security guarantees) to give those rights.
Why have the meeting at all? Although I am not going to pretend to know for sure it would not surprise me if Trump thought he could bully submission and Zelinsky thought he could bring his plea straight to the American people and his support there would force Trump to give in.
Zelenskyy is such a poor leader that the Ukrainians only have 2 options, remove him or learn Russian.
Zelensky doesn't want peace, only to persist in the killing and extort the US of all he can. A good person he is not. .
What should he have done different as a leader? Are you like Trump and you think Ukraine started the war?
Why would that be? If Russia left Ukraine, this war would end immediately.
Extortion! Do you even know what extortion is? How exactly is Zelensky engaged in extortion?
[✘] this is what Trump was trying to accomplish. First a cease fire, then negotiations as to terms, since Russia hold all the cards. No membership in NATO for Ukraine, No reclaimed territory. But American miners in Ukraine, acting as a tripwire. There is no way in hell that Ukraine can win this war, their situation is getting worse all the time. No more throwing more American money at a lost cause.[✘]
It’s amazing to me that there are people who think continually announcing this publicly is somehow a smart negotiating tactic. Or if they don’t think that, there is no criticism of it because…cult loyalty?
Just something I noticed.
Anyway, are you ever going to get around to supporting your claims that Zelensky doesn’t want peace and is committing extortion upon the United States?
I disagree. He went there knowing that he had to try to get what he needs. I am more than sure that he knew exactly his position as a supplicant because he has been travelling around asking for help to save his democracy from a dictator for three years now. Vance, on the other hand, had seemingly just one role: To scuttle the whole deal. I can't say for sure if this was planned or not. He started with a bald faced lie and segued into russian talking points. To not expect at least some pushback from Zelensky on this is just foolish, and he was patiently trying to do that in a calm and methodical manner. I am certain that he has probably found himself in similar situations before. That is, situations where people are using lies to try and not give him what he is asking for.
All that does not matter anymore. Donald Trump and JD Vance have shown how little they know and how little they care about anything but themselves. They do not care about people dying, just that the leader of those people show them "proper" deference, which means basically whatever they say goes. They don't want to negotiate, they wish to dictate.
Sad.
That is a foolish comment on the very face of it.[✘]
Do you really believe that?
If the USA supported their allies like we are supposed to, Ukraine could win the war. Personally, I would love to see Russia fall and we turn it into the 51st state...or the "Russian Riviera" has a nice ring to it.
I don't think they really believe that, it's just that they have to stick with the Russian propaganda story they are being fed through rightwing media. I think it's pretty clear most of them stopped thinking for themselves several years ago. Now they just regurgitate rightwing media talking points while pretending to be educated and at the same time ridiculing higher education as liberal "elitism". It's a rather humorous contradiction.
All the more amazing since Sweden has insisted on being a neutral nation for quite a while.
And then there's steadfastly neutral Switzerland. Still neutral, but doing this:
All the more amazing since Sweden has insisted on being a neutral nation for quite a while
And then there's steadfastly neutral Switzerland. Still neutral, but doing this:
On 11 March 2022, the Swiss authorities activated a specific temporary protection status, the protection status S, for refugees from Ukraine. The persons concerned receive an S permit which is granted for one-year (renewable) without having to go through the standard asylum procedure.
If were Trump, he'd say Ukraine should pay them back. But its obvious they're doing it out of their own goodness and compassion for others in need....they're not going to ask to be repaid for their kindness....
Zelensky just screwed himself
Actually it was Trump who just screwed himself.
Remember the "Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld?
No Soup for You!
Well now there's a Rare Earth Metals Nazi ....and he's about to say to Trump:
NO RARE EARTH METALS FOR YOU ASSHOLE!
And some of our resident military equipment experts here on NT apparently believe that the U.S. is the only country that has a large manufacturing capacity-- for advanced weapons. (So if Zelensky can't get U.S. weapons-- there's no other country that can supply them.
Total nonsense!
On the plus side of Zelenski finally being told no is that it forced the EU further into the fray.
Funny how that works out isn't it.