Articles about Native American code talkers removed from military websites
Pages about Native Americans who helped US send messages in world wars removed in Pentagon 'DEI' purge
I know this topic has appeared in Comments, but I'm not sure there's been a seed.
If this is an unnecessary double, I'll take it down.
There are links in the seed.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Navajo ‘code talkers’, signalmen who used a slightly modified version of their native language, send a radio signal during the battle of Bougainville in 1943.
Bettmann/Bettmann Archive
Among those pages was one celebrating Ira Hayes, one of the Marines famously pictured raising the American flag at Iwo Jima in 1945, according to The Washington Post. Hayes, a Native American, was praised in the page as an example of the "contributions and sacrifices Native Americans have made to the United States, not just in the military, but in all walks of life".
Likewise, articles about the Native American code talkers in the second world war appear to have been removed from military websites, with an error page being shown in place of the pages. Internet archive websites show some of the pages were still up in early March before being taken down. The removal of the pages was first reported by Axios.
Native Americans helped the US send messages in the first and second world wars in secret using their tribal language. The use of the Choctaw language in the first world war was so successful that Germany and Japan sent students to the US after the war to study Native American languages.
Navajo code talker who helped allies win second world war dies aged 107Read more
In the second world war, the military enlisted Navajo to communicate messages in their language, which is known to be one of the hardest languages to learn. To further encrypt messages, the Native American code talkers encoded the language with word substitutions. More than 400 Navajo were part of the code talkers program during the war.
In recent weeks, the Pentagon appears to have focused on removing any webpage that it deems to be "DEI". The webpages that it has taken down mostly have to deal with women or decorated service members who were not white.
Often seen within the URLs of the removed webpages on the Native American code talkers are the letters "DEI", suggesting that the department has been removing the webpages in accordance with Donald Trump's presidential orders banning all DEI initiatives within the federal government.
After an outcry from the families of veterans, the Department of Defense restored a webpage celebrating the 442nd regimental combat team, a unit of Japanese American soldiers who fought for the US in the second world war and became the most decorated unit from that war.
Upon restoring the page, the Pentagon said in a statement that it was following guidance from Trump's executive order and Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense.
"The 442nd Regimental Combat team holds an honored place in Army History, and we are pleased to republish an article that highlights the brave soldiers," the Pentagon said in a statement to Hawaii News Now.
A similar pattern of events ensued after the Pentagon removed the webpage of Maj Gen Charles Calvin Rogers, a Black Medal of Honor recipient who had served in Vietnam. The defense department restored the webpage but took on a more defiant tone regarding the website purging project.
The Pentagon has labeled the Iwo flag-raising photograph an "iconic image". It was taken on 23 February 1945 by a photographer for the Associated Press, Joe Rosenthal.
Rosenthal's photograph went on to win the Pulitzer prize and was used as a model for a statue that serves as the centerpiece of the Marine Corps War Memorial in Arlington, Virginia.
In a statement to the Guardian, department spokesperson Sean Parnell said: "I think the president and secretary have been very clear on this - that anybody that says in the Department of Defense that diversity is our strength is, frankly, incorrect."
The statement echoed a sentiment Hegseth voiced in February, when he said: "I think the single dumbest phrase in military history is 'our diversity is our strength'."
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How can any veteran accept this?
I'd really like to hear from our MAGA members here on NT. Are there no vets among them? There are lots of "VETERAN" baseball caps at MAGA rallies. Have we no MAGA vets on NT?
Let's hear from them. I want to know how they feel about betraying their brothers in arms.
Just depends on whether or not the head is shoved up Trumps ass. Those who are shoved up there have their vocal cords suppressed by Trumps tightening balloon knot, while those who are not shoved up there are allowed to speak freely.
Ther are at least a couple or three.
I predict they will say this didnt really happen.
I'm going to start asking each and every MAGA if they're a vet, and if so, what they think about such disrespect. Nothing else, until I get some kind of answer from one of them.
I guess I qualify as a vet. Four years in USAF 1956-1960. Included one year tour at remote 708th AC&W Squadron in Alaska.
I don't trust or believe anything you post here. I don't believe that Trump or Musk have had anything to do with these alleged deletions that were probably done automatically by an app or program to search for examples of DEI.
If complaints are made, I'm sure these pages will be restored
What do you think of the deletions? Regardless of who ordered them?
Does it feel like a betrayal of fellow veterans?
If you don't think Trusk is responsible, you should be even more furious, since the betrayal of nie-blank vets is being associated with Trusk.
No, it’s not “done automatically.” It’s not excusable because some nameless, soulless algorithm did the deed. A human being programmed the computer to do this. I’d like to know his name. I’d like to know how he got this job. I’d like to know who ordered him to write the app or program the way he did.
The MAGA objection to DEI - which, in my opinion is based on prejudice, not fact - is that women, people of color, and LGBT are hired, enrolled, honored, etc. because of their minority status, with no regard for merit. That’s not how DEI actually works in practice, but even if it were, that is no justification for what we are seeing.
To satisfy MAGA’s concerns, that should require an algorithm that screens for both minority status and a lack of qualifications. But that has not been the result. Instead, we are seeing genuine heroes (and even the plane Enola Gay) deleted solely because of their association - in even the most minor way - with the minority part of the algorithm.
The excuses I see here all have the same ring to them. The pages were taken down to satisfy the ego of Trump and his followers.
The Navajo code talkers and the other tribes that became code talkers even though the were forced into “Indian boarding schools” if they spoke their language they were beaten yet the still volunteered.
Another page that was taken down was that of Ira Hayes one of the Marines that raised the flag on Iwo Jima, perhaps they will remove him from the iconic monument to than that’s stands in DC.
i am a veteran and an Indian as is my son, father uncles etc nearly everyone on both sides of my family are vets and currently four are on active duty. I am totally disgusted with this exhibit of racism which some prefer to call DEI.
Dito.
So basically, your excuse is "Hey, if my guys clearly fuck something up, don't get upset, they'll eventually fix it. But if your guys fuck something up, there is no fixing it, the problem was with the ideology to begin with so we should throw all of it out even if the baby is still in the bathwater".
It is racism. And in this case it is without any hope of redemption. This is 'raw' and it strikes a nerve. I am even more offended that the Native Americans were tampered with in disrespectful fashion. . ., and some here are trying to say all is well that ends well. . . but it is not so. If it was done with no attempt at malice or dismissal. . . a notice of changes to come would have 'led' the site speaking of modifications to come and what those would be. That is, preparation given to the public. . . .
We don't want MAGA treatment or MAGA 'purification' of diversity touching 'us' when they have no respect for diversity.
MAGA has over-reached. They have touched too damn much already! We will not sit still and take it.
It's not like they come right out and tell us how they really feel about it. Oh, yes, the "woke" era is gone but it doesn't matter that people of color were honored on an official gov't website. It's like they just don't care that brave men and women made sure that they kept the freedom to say "I don't care"
I'm just now seeing your post.
It's disrespect. It's intentional. We know it because of the callous way it's being conducted. They're not handling this the way they would handle their own stuff and I'll leave it up to to others to determine what I mean by their stuff.
So the game is afoot. Of course they will deny, and shuck and jive, and work to shoo us away through their mocking, belittling, and gaslighting.
Finally they have the power and it will expose them for what they really are and everybody will see it and discern it because it is what it is.
That's the point. No one needs to make a complaint to have the pages replaced and them should have been removed in the first place are tampered with excessively. What the hell does any standard issue politician holding the office of president have to do with a daily planning of archival files and photos?
This is an example of another power grab and meddling in the lives of people, in this case dead people, to prove to an insatiable base, the diversity, equity and inclusion will not live in a diverse and inclusive community.
Shame on the shameless for being so damn stupid, divisive, and reckless with the hearts and minds of this country's citizens.
They're here, Bob. They consider themselves the "rightful" patriots while Kavika, Mr. Frost, me, and a few others who lean left are not. When this issue comes up, they are silent. Except one. That will be the only time he will speak up in defense of this kind of hatred
So... basically, their loyalty to MAGA is greater than their loyalty to their brothers in arms.
President Trusk has no shame, so I guess that's the example for these poor excuses for humans...
Apparently, no law is too sacred to break, no part of the Constitution to important to ignore, so long as allegiance is sworn to the Dear Leader Party.
I wonder how long the time will be before they realize that the Emperor holds nothing dear, except the things that make his head swell.
I believe that I was the first to post a comment about that when the first article about PotUS Trusk's (Trump + Musk) order concerning that was posted. I believe I commented about the Windtalkers and the Tuskagee Airmen. Perhaps poodle Hegseth should also require all movies about them be destroyed as well in order to carry out the wishes of your great leaders.
1st - there is NO SUCH THING as MAGA members on NT or, pretty much, anywhere else, as it is NOT a political party.
If you can find any "Official" party affiliation for MAGA - show your proof.
NT members are Dem/Lib/Repub/Indep/Green/etc - but none of them "belong" to the MAGA party - as there is no MAGA political party
That's what I wear - very proudly - regardless of where I am going. And THIS is what I display on my Harley, cars, and a window or two of our house -
All I am seeing after having lived my life as a Native American - Chickasaw to be exact - for over 70 years and after having worked with/within the Fed government for over 53 years is the Ol' "Smoke Covered Waters" by Deep Purple.
Too damn many dissatisfied folks with nothing else to do other that "muddy the waters".
2nd - yeah, I'm a USMC Vet - Viet Nam 2/66 - 3/67, Viet Nam 10/67 - 9/68 - even got some of them pretty colored things to wear on my uniforms and to put on my wall.
3rd - the antagonism/full hate against this or any administration is/has gotten to be totally pathetic. What happened to when we could "all" walk the hall with our heads up?
Get your hate and animosity out of your heads and start walking back down those halls.
Quit belly aching and start doing something positive.
Your argument is purely one of semantics. While it is true, there is no "MAGA" party, you'd be a monumental fool to not recognize the fact that the Republican party has been hijacked by Trump and Trump is the MAGA brand. So, while it's not a party, it is most certainly a brand. And there are quite a few on NT that are clearly MAGA brand loyalists. They live, breathe and die MAGA as made very clear by their constant abject obeisance to their Dear Leader Donald.
While I recognize you as a conservative, I've never pegged you as being enamored with the MAGA brand and I'm glad you choose your own personal identity through any logos you wear, but you have to admit that others here on NT have in fact expressed their brand loyalty to MAGA.
First letter of the MAGA brand... They all think it's cool until they realize they're all just Trumps livestock. Sadly, most don't realize it till they're already through the doors of the slaughterhouse.
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[✘] Now that that is out of the way - how does your comment address the thread or even my comment? Kinda off topic, don't ya think?
? Not sure where you saw a bunch of "hate" in my comment. Calling MAGA a brand and pointing out their brand loyalty doesn't really seem like very strong "Hater-Aide" but whatever.
I was not aware that one needed to be a cowboy to use visual aids or make a double entendre.
I wear no brand; I just have no patience for stupidity, so I keep my distance from rightwing conservatives who have been pouring a veritable cornucopia of stupidity on the American people ever since they chose Trump as their pussy grabbing mascot.
You argued that MAGA isn't a political party, I pointed out that while that is true, there isn't really any daylight between the Republican party and the MAGA brand. They are interchangeable and mean exactly the same thing these days. And it's the MAGA brand that is attempting to scrub DEI, including the references to the Code Talkers, off anything and everything to do with the government. Why are the American people letting some scum bag's brand erase our American pride in diversity and inclusion which is what we have aspired to for years.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
And equity. There is a lot to be said for a nation that cares for its citizens well-being and has the desire to right -size its upsidedown places. An amend for certain clear abuses of one's own people is not a defeat or a contest that slings one group far out and ahead of another. It is an assist for an appropriate time to right a set of wrongs.
As an Iraq vet I give you mad respect. Nam is probably the second shtiiest war to have fought in (World War 1). SEMPER FI.
And they will be back just like Charles Calvin Rodgers is.
Are you a vet, Jim? What do you think about Trump's erasing of veterans from military history if they aren't White? Does that bother you?
I think perhaps you need to catch up. For reference, see #2.
I am quite sure they are using some sort of algorithm or scanning program to look for possibilities. And, as in #2, once realized, back they come. So, the answer to your question is no. It doesn't bother me. Please explain how it affects you.
It doesn't bother me as I know how this shit works. One goes all Draconian and then backs off when the obvious becomes obvious.
So you're ok with an algorithm that hunts nie-blank vets?
Stand proud!
What they are saying about this is a version of "dont take Trump literally". They always have excuses for him, the excuses for him are in the hundreds by now. They say if someone complains it will be put back. Why should someone have to complain when they are being disrespected? Almost every one of these vets that are being erased are better people than Trump, and I can say that with total confidence without even knowing any of them personally.
Are you a vet, John?
This willful disrespect for people who served the nation is beyond disgusting.
Any vet who doesn't instantly condemn this... who has thus implicitly endorsed it... is a traitor to all veterans.
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The page you are looking for might have been moved, renamed, or may be temporarily unavailable. Use our help center , browse our sitemap , or return to the homepage .
Hey Bob, before voting something up, make sure you read the link...........
That's the whole point of my comment.....the page has been removed....the topic of Bob's article?
Are you going to tell us what you think about the erasure of nie-blank vets? Is that a betrayal? Do nie-blanks have no place in American history, military or otherwise?
Basically already did.
Answer me this, when you clean house, I would hope you move the furniture when "cleaning" out of the way. Once the dirt is eradicated, the furniture will go back in some shape or form. This seems to be a purge, identify, then reinstate said records. Much like this is.
I just think it is too bad the SS administration doesn't do the same with their database. By all indications, it sorely needs it.
We have to trust the 'cleaners' to enter the House in the first place. Frankly, MAGA is a partisan party and should not be touching anything sacred in our "House!" Especially not our dead heroes. This is an insult and it speaks volumes. MAGAs are going to justifiably get checked on this. Our dead heroes don't need and don't want the "MAGA once-over" or the "MAGA treatment" - take your pick of the two!
What we have, though, is cleaners who only move furniture they don’t like the look of.
The same people who approve of all this willy nilly "DEI" removal are the same people who think whites are the main victims of racism.
They won't do any more research to find out WHY that error is being shown (i.e. changed url).
They go straight to "hair on fire" to be offended over something that has no effect on them. Typical liberal behavior.
I'm still trying to figure out why the race of the person is relevant to the action they performed, Is it because they expect less from people of color than they do white people? and if so why?
Agree. After 20 years of service, I never saw race when it came to those I served with. I guess I was always a true conservative and never really liberal.
If there was a page dedicated to only one race, then it was probably better that that page is taken down in favor everybody being treated the same.
Funny thing is.......if these deletions did not occur, very few liberals, if any, that are whining about this would never had known there were pages dedicated to certain races.
It's only relevant to a racist. Look at who has their hair on fire. These are the people who focus on race above all else.
These are the same people that pushed Affirmative Action and DEI, telling people of color that they can't make it in the free world without assistance. Funny enough, these are the same people who supported Jim Crowe laws and segregation.
President Trump describes the people who died in service to the nation as "losers". Do you agree?
President Trump describes the people who died in service to the nation as "losers". Do you agree?
That has been debunked but you knew that.
Assessing Trump’s Denial That He’s Called Veterans ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’
Former President Donald J. Trump has again denied denouncing service members as “losers” and “suckers” after a Biden campaign ad highlighted critical comments he reportedly made of the military.
“Donald Trump doesn’t know a damn thing about service to his country,” President Biden wrote on Friday in a social media post accompanying the ad.
The ad highlights nine derogatory remarks Mr. Trump has made about service members, including calling them “losers” and “suckers.” Most of the reported quotations occurred in private conversations, and other news outlets or people have confirmed many of them.
Still, Mr. Trump disputes ever making them. At a campaign rally on Sunday in Las Vegas and on social media , he called the claims “disinformation” and “made up out of thin air.”
The Biden campaign, in the ad, cited a 2020 article in The Atlantic about Mr. Trump’s remarks for a majority of the quotations. The story relied on anonymous sources, but many of the accounts have been corroborated by outlets, including The New York Times, and by John F. Kelly, a retired four-star Marine general who served as Mr. Trump’s White House chief of staff.
Mr. Trump, for his part, has repeatedly and emphatically denied making those remarks since the article was published in September 2020, telling reporters then : “For somebody to say the things that they say I said is a total lie. It’s fake news. It’s a disgrace.”
Other comments quoted in the campaign ad were audio snippets of Mr. Trump himself or attributed to a Democratic congresswoman. Two of these quotes omitted context that would give a different impression of Mr. Trump’s comments.
Here’s a breakdown of the quotations.
Remarks from The Atlantic are anonymously attributed, but corroborated
Five of the quotations in the Biden campaign ad were reported in The Atlantic in 2020.
The article begins with an account of Mr. Trump’s decision during a 2018 trip to France to forgo a planned visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery , where American soldiers are buried. At the time, Mr. Trump and his aides said that rain had necessitated canceling the helicopter ride to the cemetery, but his absence was criticized at home and abroad.
But according to The Atlantic, that was not true. Rather, Mr. Trump was worried that the weather would mess up his hair and did not think the trip was important. The Atlantic reported that in private conversations, Mr. Trump had said: “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers,” and called the soldiers buried there “suckers” for being killed.
The Atlantic also reported that while standing by the grave of Robert Kelly, Mr. Kelly’s son who was killed in action in Afghanistan in 2010, Mr. Trump had asked: “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?”
And according to The Atlantic, after receiving a briefing from Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Mr. Trump also asked aides: “That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?”
Lastly, The Atlantic reported that when Senator John McCain, one of Mr. Trump’s few Republican critics, died in 2018, Mr. Trump said, “We’re not going to support that loser’s funeral.”
The Washington Post and Jennifer Griffin, the chief national security reporter for Fox News, confirmed that Mr. Trump had privately disparaged veterans and soldiers. The Post reported that Mr. Trump had called people who served in the Vietnam War “losers,” while Ms. Griffin reported that Mr. Trump used the term “sucker” and asked, “What’s in it for them?”
John R. Bolton, Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, told The Times that he did not personally hear Mr. Trump use those words on the 2018 trip but that the reported comments were not out of character.
Mr. Kelly confirmed in 2023 that Mr. Trump had used the terms “suckers” and “losers” to describe wounded soldiers and those who were killed or missing in action.
Mr. Kelly also said that Mr. Trump did not want to stand next to military amputees because “it doesn’t look good for me.” (The Biden ad attributed this particular quote to The Atlantic. The article quotes Mr. Trump saying, while asking his staff to omit wounded veterans from military parades, “Nobody wants to see that.”)
Mr. Trump has publicly called Mr. McCain a “loser” on social media and in a 2015 event . And Miles Taylor, who was chief of staff at the Department of Homeland Security at the time, told The Times that Mr. Trump was unhappy that flags were lowered to half-staff when the senator died. (Mr. Trump was not invited to Mr. McCain’s funeral.)
A Democratic congresswoman’s quotation has also been corroborated
The Biden campaign ad also includes one remark from Representative Frederica S. Wilson, Democrat of Florida.
In October 2017, Mr. Trump spoke on the phone with the widow of Army Sgt. La David T. Johnson, who was killed in Niger. According to Ms. Wilson, who was accompanying the widow, Mr. Trump said to Myeshia Johnson, “ I guess he knew what he was signing up for, but it still hurts.”
The Biden ad omitted the second part of that quote, Mr. Trump’s attempt at empathizing with the widow: “But it still hurts.”
Mr. Trump also denied making this remark , and claimed he had “proof.” His press secretary at the time said that the call was not recorded but confirmed his account.
But Ms. Johnson soon corroborated Ms. Wilson’s account and said that Mr. Trump’s condolence call made her angry and upset her even more, especially as he struggled to remember her husband’s name. Sergeant Johnson’s mother also backed up Ms. Wilson’s account.
Trump’s own words
The Biden campaign ad includes audio of Mr. Trump speaking at several events.
In one widely reported 2015 event, Mr. Trump said of Mr. McCain : “He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured.”
The comments kicked off a storm of criticism, and Mr. Trump defended his remarks at the time by misleadingly claiming that he had agreed four times that Mr. McCain was a hero.
The ad also includes — and omits important context from — audio snippets from a 2016 campaign rally: “He handed me his Purple Heart” and “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.”
In a 2016 rally in Ashburn, Va., Mr. Trump recounted the enthusiasm of his crowds and gave as an example “something very nice” that had “just happened to me.” A man gave him his Purple Heart, Mr. Trump said, and told him, “I have such confidence in you.” His joke about obtaining the Purple Heart, the medal given to soldiers wounded or killed in action, in this easier fashion was met with applause and laughter.
Mr. Trump added that “it was such an honor,” which the Biden campaign ad omitted.
At the time, the comment and Mr. Trump’s acceptance of the medal ignited more controversy. A spokesman for the Military Order of the Purple Heart said recipients are entitled to give them away , but he said that owning one without having earned it was an act of stolen valor.
The recipient of the Purple Heart later said that he gave Mr. Trump the medal because he thought Mr. Trump would make a great commander in chief and he wanted to remind him of “all the people that have fought and died for this country.”
So, you use an ad from the defeated Biden campaign and hearsay from someone else.
If you can provide video or real audio of him saying that, then you might have some credibility.
Also, the Atlantic is a far left wing rag that has been caught several times over the past few years blatantly lying in stories about Trump.
BTW....I am a proud 20 year veteran who served this country with pride and honor.
I am also proud to call Trump my president.
Now, cue up the name calling.
Well George - one reason, and it has nothing to do with "race", is that many minorities outperform in a lot of areas that the "racist" society members can't handle - someone who is better than they are purely because the minorities HAVE to show they're qualified. The members of the "racist" society just can't handle that nor do they have to prove their qualifications.
Loves having arguments with himself - even when he loses the argument.
Actually, that is white liberals saying this....
Happens a lot, doesn't it?
I agree with you 100% minorities dominate in many segments of society, so it would be insulting to recognize a white persons performance simply because he was white. We are all equals, one's race doesn't make them more or less qualified.
Even with video of it, they will deny that's their stance on the situation.
Looks like the leftists are simply mad that there are not pages on the DoD site for every minority group, and it is usually the ones that have never served.
Of course they will. They will just attack the messenger and call it all a setup.
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Show me where I said that, and more importantly, show where that happened.
Why do minority veterans need to be separated from other minorities/whites?
Seems like you approve of segregation.
Wow.
Why do you think race is important in accomplishments Bob, Do you believe they are inferior and deserve special recognition?
John Kelly said, specifically, during the 2024 campaign that Trump did indeed say all these things.
The "debunking" consists of MAGAs calling him a liar.
I don't. I think that some people are prevented from accomplishing what they could. I think that those who break through social barriers to make their accomplishments are more meritorious than those who have easier paths.
Blacks and women have to work harder. Period.
Do you have a video of him saying this or is it just a report from a left wing source?
OK, let's say you are correct (you're not).
If a white person tries to get a job in a black owned and employed business, and that person has impeccable qualifications, does the white have to work harder to get that position or is it OK for the black owner to simply disregard the applicant?
If the white has to work harder, would you consider that racist....?
I stopped reading here. If you don't agree with reality, then there's really no point.
What that tells me is yes, you are perfectly fine with racism against whites.
'If that is not true, prove me wrong...
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Brother Veteran, you have no idea or proof what you wrote there. But nice go at a backhanded compliment!
None of the usual tricks and tactics are new to those of us who remember having experienced them as part of our makeup and have had them in the past in having them drilled into our character makeup rather we wanted them there or not.
So MAGAS got insults ... Nothing new about that! Been there done that got all the t-shirts!
People of color can make it in this country just like you can. Just get out of the way and watch. But it speaks for itself that it is Trump and MAGA that wants to go back to a bygone era when the only power that Be welding power liberally and freely expressing itself was majorly controlled by conservatives.
Whites in a majority while dominated society control the policymaking, institutional, cultural, economical, and majorly psychological makeup of our country and during the bulk of that long storied history spanning centuries minorities were marginalized and even their achievements and furtherances with others were discounted,or not properly credit to them at all.
Thus, it became necessary for people of color in the midst of an unyielding white and majorly conservative majority to make the case for themselves. In hope of some accomplishments being properly attributed and some fame given and aplumb relished. All this leading to greater wealth acquisition for individuals of color.
Yes we are all equals, but some of us got that memo 200 years later and others of us are still trying to receive it, or just outright refuse it. And that's sad. Very sad.
That's easy. Hell no. But that didn't get us anywhere equal and further along with conservatives, in spite of it.
Finally, I have come to a conclusion about Trump. It was plain to me when African-American 'truth' was deleted (and tried deleted and some put back I read), it was evident to me when women were removed from the website, now it is crystal clear (three times the charm) to me Trump and his MAGA are the party for RACISTS and SEPARATISTS. In my opinion, there is no coming back from this insult.
As a veteran myself, this is a 'personal' insult. Why? How the hell does anybody who understands (and shares) the bond between service people (some of the nicest and bravest people you will ever meet) try to SPLIT that bond down its middle?
No coming back from this one. I may one day forgive, but I will never forget this day (in Trump infamy)!
Oh, get over yourself.
Precisely what is being written about in every way possible! MAGA will have its butt handed to it sooner or later. We don't have to take crap from "It" and so we won't! It is observed that a MAGA supporter did not support veterans in any way in his retort!
I'm curious as to why the race of the individual's matter, their accomplishments are noble and worth recognizing, but does their race somehow make it more noteworthy? and is that because a segment of society expect less of them? Does a pilot of African American decent deserve more praise than w white pilot for the same actions? and if you say yes, the only reason would be that you expect less from them based solely on skin color.
So... You favor the erasure of nie-blanks from American history.
That's disgusting.
Sigh.....
If you cannot simply say, "It's wrong to erase these people" then you are agreeing with the erasure.
That's a disgusting betrayal of fellow veterans. Oh, wait... you didn't say you're a vet, did you?
How do you feel about the removal of monuments to Confederate soldiers - men who fought against the United States of America?
Maybe some remember the left screaming about ICE agents entering a chicago elementary school? Or the Tuskegee airmen kerfuffle the left got in a wad about? Maybe they are willing to give it some time to see what happens before lighting their hair on fire?
Are you a vet, Gazoo? What do you think about Trump's erasing of veterans from military history if they aren't White? Does that bother you?
See 4.1.4
So far, none of our MAGAs has said they're a vet. Either they're a statistical anomaly, or they're ashamed.
Or they think it’s none of your business.
You want to know who is a vet then look up their DD214. It's public record.
You wouldn't be proud to be a veteran? I could see if you were awarded a dishonorable discharge. I'd tell people it's none of their business, too
Or they're ashamed
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I don't actually want to know who is a vet. I want to know who is PROUD to be a vet.
I want the people who wear "VETERAN" baseball caps to MAGA rallies to explain how they can support a creature who describes dead heroes as "losers".
Do you call them "losers", too?
Then quit asking. It's none of your business.
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Your point? What's that got to do with "your" thread?
I’m sure you didn’t mean that as a sleazy little insinuation. Anyway, some prefer privacy over giving personal info to people who may be hostile.
take it any way you want to. Everybody knows I'm not a nice person
You are a nice person to nice people.
That comment shows ignorance of the background of this country. Minorities are always leery (and queasy) when certain White male conservatives begin to code-talk and code-act against them. We don't give a damn about what white conservatives think about minorities and women. . . but, we are always observant to watch what actions are taken to blot us out or discount our place in a TRULY DIVERSE society.
By the way, what EXACTLY is the problem MAGA has with Diversity? Is it minorities? Just minorities? Is it women? Is it homosexuals? Is it Others?
Since you are here representing MAGA . . . do share your thought/s on the matter, please.
The problem with what you call "diversity" is that TRUE diversity isn't something that has to be forced. Affirmative Action, DEI and whatever the next iteration the idiots on the left will push is nothing more than telling minorities, women, and gays that they can't make it in society without help. You denigrate the very people that you claim to supposedly "support".
You're an expert, are you?
apparently I understand the concept more than some.
I am just now seeing this and I want you to know that your comment doesn't make any sense. You have lived in this country long enough to know what the hell is going on in its not so distant past and is rearing it's ugly head again.
Do stop the colorblind bull- crap that didn't work for Andrew Jackson and. only a loser would think it works for Trump, his cohorts, and DOGE.
Hell no.
Then that's something for you to work out.
Meaning is important in communication. It is definitely not helped by 'chopping' up and repurposing comments.
Good thing I didn't "chop up' and repurpose a comment.
IF you have to ask, THEN you will never admit the answer, no matter how true it is.
Yes, there is a willingness and intent on some conservatives' part to pretend that minorities, women, homosexuals, and others can be discounted, ignored, even 'forgotten' in plain sight - and there offerings and patriotic contributions transferred to a larger cultural community led by white male conservative majority.
We have seen this occur before and must not let these fools pretend that they can do it and get away with it once more!
The saddest part is being out of power for so long. . . some conservatives have not learnt anything about just letting other people live with them instead of dreading their presence in the 'Community."
Well, I feel that trump aligned people wish to deny there ever was a time where minorities were treated as being less than. They do not wish to remember that there were times when racism was rampant, codified, and systemic. They do not wish to admit it is becoming more-so again today.
I, we, should never accept a literal 'white-washing' of the collective American psyche. Especially since it happened before. . .in the dark history of this country. Then, many "did it" to minorities and when more knowledge came into being apologized for having been so blatant and deliberately cruel and downright brutally evil to try to suppress their fellow countrymen and country-WOMEN. But this 'mob' has no excuse. . . they are doing this right in our faces in the 'enlightenment' era of human existence. Literally telling us to accept OPPRESSION AND SUPPRESSION under their control and supposed superiority rather than us all sharing the country we all love together as a united people advancing TOGETHER.
Minorities, women, homosexuals, and others, for decades, all fought for equal treatment. Well, now there is equal treatment. Your skin color, gender, sexual preference are no longer factors in any thing.
So, now, you are crying because you have that equal treatment?
“Your skin color, gender, sexual preference are no longer factors in any thing.”
An unbelievably ignorant comment.
You believe that?
By law, no longer a factor. Individual opinions may vary..........A LOT.
That's your opinion.[✘]
Since it's now law...
Au contraire. MAGA doe not get to tell us what our story is and how it finishes. That's been tried before in the conservative past. Nor do MAGA get to determine our present outcome. By speaking its fictional idea of us inio the here and now.
We see what Trump wants for Us and it is a detour off the path being traveled and onto a dusty side road back to when in that twisted mind of his people were freer when any number of them were someone's property free and clear.
Ask Trump I am sure he has an executive order that will shortly and rapidly put all of that to a challenge in a court of law.
Well George, there are a number of reasons for the race being shown. In the case of the Navajo code talkers as all other minorities they overcame barriers that were not faced by whites in WWII. First off racism as the armed forces were segregated at the time, everything that minorities got they had to work 10 x as hard for much of the time they did not receive anywhere equal treatment. Native Americans were forced into Indian boarding schools school where their language was beaten out of them and then were asked to use that same language to help win the war. BTW there were 32tribes that had code talkers in the military. When these vets returned home they faced the same description as when they left. Sadly your question is over ruled by our history.
many times they were denied medals for valor because of there skin color.
You cannot be helped.
It matters because white people in America have used the law and violence to control people of different races since before we were an independent country. And even as laws have changed over the years, that does not instantly undo the damage done or suddenly put everyone on an equal playing field.
Consider two events that are similar, but race is not an issue. In this example, Soldier 1, hiding behind good cover, kills several enemy combatants while Soldier 2 is caught in the open and kills the same number of enemies. Isn't Soldier 2's achievement more noteworthy? Context matters, yes?
So yeah, when someone of a minority race does something noteworthy, it can be even more noteworthy because of the racial component and our national history with race. That it not always true for all situations and for all time, of course. Context matters.
That might be the only reason you have been previously willing to acknowledge, but that does not make it logically the only reason. I hope my explanation of the context of these matters has given you something new to think about.
Arvo.. wonder if the six triple eight will disappear as well?
But it doesn't matter Trumpy if you do...you can always blame it on "computer error"...the whole world knows about it now...
What an incredible group of women who in such trying times, out did and out played the white man at his own game and how...
Lest we forget...🌹
valiantly serving the country that oppressed them for not being privileged and now being removed from our history by the privileged.
My local newspaper (which leans decidedly left) had the following this morning.
So if accurate in the reporting and truthful from the spokesperson, this would indicate that the algorithm to find the 'DEI' content also automatically removed it from public view. With all the various reporting that has come out detailing the removal of such from public view only to be returned later does lend credence to the idea that it was a computer program that searched AND removed items.
Having spent the majority of my working life in IT, I can believe this to be true. I've met many younger programmers who built code but only tested their coding to insure it did what they wanted it to do and never really tested for any issues that were outside the planned results.
Every effing week........and I don't know how old they are, they are still incompetent in my opinion.
This has been very interesting seed. The refusal of our MAGAs to take a stand is... remarkable.
Being a veteran is being in a brotherhood (that includes our sisters, of course). Some of us gave parts of our bodies, some (like me) of us risked our lives without ever actually getting hurt, and some never went into combat - but knew that at any moment they might.
Veterans SERVED their country in a way that no non-veteran can really understand.
An insult to any veteran is an insult to all of us. When a trumped-up 4F calls dead soldiers "losers", it makes me both angry and sick. When NT members refuse to take a stand on this... they are simply cowards.
I'll soon be suspended for being unpleasant to people who shit on veterans. Fascists must be protected.
Right?
The code talkers saved thousands upons thousands oif lives in WW2. Many paid the ultimate sacrifice. They did far more than ANY in our current government have ever dreamt of doing.
I suppose the good news in all this is that such webpages and stories on the DoD website have been and are being restored. The disturbing part is why they had been temporarily removed in the first place. Whether done by humans or AI programs/bots created by humans, it makes no difference if the reason was to alter important historical record due to current political animus.
I know that when there is a change in administration, there are often many URL changes across many departments and it takes some time for them to be remapped. But this scenario appears to go beyond that, as explained in the recent AP Article .
My response to Mr. Parnell would be that is correct, "History is not DEI". So, if not part of a routine URL change or restructuring of the websites in question, then it should not have happened at all.
No kidding
They dont want to have their cake and eat it too, they want to have their cake and then deny they ate it
It is an old tactic. Take down materials and ONLY replace the documents and images You choose yourself; the public decrys, and Screen out the rest. The public is being 'used' by MAGA to aid whom they can 'get rid of' or not!
The instance being more will be left out than put back!
I suggest this: These are dead people (heroes and the like) and they have recently been and will be "SCREENED" by MAGA in some form of vindictive swipe at confederate statues being taken down. Dead people mind you! They are not a part or fraction of any activities done after their 'departures' from this life. They continue to have respectable records that got them recognized for the right reason in a graceful nation while causing no harm to their fellows. Having accomplished their records dutifully and truthfully.
And here comes an administration that wishes to 'test' them to see if they can meet ITS questionable policies.
For all these so-called religious people in on this indignity, remember: (your) God does not like 'Ugly.'
The Guardian and many other articles on this topic have highlighted statements like:
While I agree that the reasons why some of the website omissions (temporary or ongoing) due to DEI witch hunt from the top are egregious, I do wonder why these stories never provide the full context of the quotes from Parnell and Hegseth.
Parnell actually said :
Hegseth actually said :
And in the same address he said:
When they answer the question as to why they feel that diversity is not our strength with, "Our shared purpose and unity are our strength", I can see it as possible, from a military standpoint, to have views on this matter that are not necessarily bigoted. Misguided and very poorly applied to policy, indeed, but not necessarily bigoted.
Perhaps the questions they should be asked now are: How does removing historical content involving heroes and notable veterans from our past illustrative of our "shared purpose and unity"? Does THAT policy really make us stronger?
The statement "diversity is our strength" is not an offensive or statement causing harm to any reasonable person or persons.
The statement; "Our strength is our shared purpose, regardless of our background, regardless of how we grew up, regardless of our gender, regardless of our race," he said.
Is high-sounding but low rhetoric.
Here's why!
This administration is "86-ing" active duty participants that it does not wish its ideology to give INCLUSION. This administration does not want their DIVERSITY. And so it unceremoniously compels them to shame their way out of the armed services - if being 'nice' does get the picture sought: shit just kick them out their asses with a threat of less than 'meritorious' discharge and accompanying lack of benefits.
I could go on, but why? We know what 'this' is (high-sounding rhetoric fit for a press letter while the words themselves are plastic and worthless because the spirit they are delivered in is bigotry against: "THEM."
Of course not CB, as long as we are reasonable about what it means when we say that and consider the circumstances to which we apply that statement. For example, does focusing primarily on our differences, or what makes us "diverse", always create a strong bond or sense of community? To be "strong" as a community do we not need a common purpose or goal, and at least a semblance of unity on some level? For diversity to truly be our strength do we not first need to listen to and consider the thoughts of those who might look, act, or think differently and seek a set of commonalities and shared values to rally around and bind us? Or is that all just a bunch of rhetoric? I think that diversity can be our strength if we first endeavor to focus on what we have in common and the goals, values or purpose we share. But I will agree that this administration's policies are not consistent with the words they used to justify them.
Although, it seems odd to me that some who might insist that "diversity is our strength" are also absolutely dismissive of anyone who might have a diverse opinion or view about that or other matters of community importance. When we stand firmly on "I am right and you are wrong", so much for strength in diversity...
I will agree that when they answer the question as to why they feel that diversity is not our strength with, "Our shared purpose and unity are our strength" (which I find to be a reasonable view if indeed their policies were to be consistent with it), then they best be prepared to answer the questions: How does removing historical content involving heroes and notable veterans from our past illustrative of our "shared purpose and unity"? And how does THAT policy really make us stronger? Otherwise this is just another example of ideologs not practicing what they preach.
My friend, let me deal with the above first among your several interesting and thought-provoking statements.
I agree with you that 'empty political warfare' is sapping the energy-maybe even a giant gulp from the lifeblood of our country. It is a sad and utterly wasteful practice.
Just this AM I awoke to find a History Channel show first 'up' on my television screen (I don't generally watch or 'key' in that channel), but it was there for me to see. . . the presentation: "Harlem Hell-fighters" - a trailer for the presentation below:
The Harlem Hellfighters | History
The presentation drives home the point that diversity was hampered in the past by bigots and those who caved in to bigots and so even when advances were granted-the spirit was lacking in full-throated support for diversity.
So sometimes it is hard for us to find where the origination of a single or set of partisan arguments. Sometimes, hell 'arguments' come with their own continuation of resentment' - intent.
All these black men wanted to do was to be that "thing' - a component of the U.S. combat 'fiber' and they caught hell for having shall we call it the "audacity."
We see this today. . . .men and women once again having the audacity to bring themselves as 'offerings' to their nation. . . in good faith. . . being spurned and treated with suspicion. . . and their. . . merit questioned or disrespected on some other ground that has nothing to with real and purposeful service to the country they love.
Alas, the internal foes of the spirit of men and women (minorities) clearly never relent. . . they just 'bury' themselves and like frogs. . . wait for the tap of 'rain' as a call to come out and reattack.
Diverse is what this country is. It lies to itself to think, feel, or state otherwise. If MAGA would just look - long and hard - at us. . .we are all from somewhere else in the world originally. And for history sake, this country once laid out its 'welcome mat' to be trampled (one way or another) for all of us. . . exception our native Brethren and Sisters.
I will take a break here as one of my eyes is straining. . . .
There in red type lies the single answer to all the questions. Peace can't maintain itself when one group of people. . . have it in for the Others. Minorities simply want to belong and treated fairly. Not taken in and put in a box and stowed in the back and that being called our 'place' in this country.
It has been the case for eons that minorities have excelled or been told that their excelling has a ceiling and they should expect no "progress/ive" reinventing of ourselves upward. Over vertical growth is ended. And we must put all our efforts into growing 'sideways.
A one-hand clap has no value since it can not utter praise. When our differences can't be acknowledged for the good and value those differences bring to the fore, then we ought to question why can those differences permitted to bond? What is the cause of the 'breakdown' of the bond between the 'clapping' entities?
I saw that too! I recall reading about the 369th Infantry Regiment in WWI in the Smithsonian Magazine a few years back, and I think I saw a documentary about it as well back just before Covid. Indeed all those men were heroes and should be remembered as such. Even in the face of poor treatment by their superiors and by far too many at home when they returned from fighting for their country they persevered. Even then though the parade and welcome that they received upon returning to New York was uplifting, although far too short-lived. They were a perfect example of how diversity along with a shared purpose and the unity of a common goal are our greatest strength.
Sadly, I will call this out, for my entire life there has always been a conservative of one stripe or another, in one party of the other, that has displayed an active contempt for the advancement of minorities, including women, in this country. It's undeniable.
And now as an older man, I just have to say it. . . I am done with their social 'disturbances.' It's enough already.
There is no world, unless it is one of pure imagination, where Trump, Hegseth, and MAGA want FAIRNESS for transsexuals. So that statement. "Our shared purpose and unity are our strength." Is simply a throwaway line in a speech. It was delivered to a SPECIAL MINORITY of The Trump Administration's deciding at "lethal" and it DIVIDED our strength.
So much so that servicemembers happily serving their country with proper allegiance to its affairs are 'now and later' potentially sent home with nothing worth servicing and with an effed up sense of what FAIRNESS means in our country. Trump arbitrarily decided with his MAGA 'forces' that transsexuals have no value that he should respect. Meritorious work and service was not the problem or issue here, dividing people from people is.
Don't buy into high-sounding rhetoric, make people work hard, really hard, to pass a lie into a fertile mind and cheapen the DEPTHS of your minds.
I don't see it as high-sounding rhetoric, as I think there is some truth to the words, as I explained in my comments above. However, I agree that coming from this administration and considering the policies they have put into place and the actions they have taken, they are making a mockery of those words. There is no fairness in what they have done nor any effort to rally around a shared purpose, nor create any sort of unity. It isn't that the words themselves are not true, it is that this administration doesn't really believe in those words as is evidenced by their actions.
My apologies, my statement: "Don't buy into high-sounding rhetoric" was general in effect, even though it is written to a friend. And yes, where the 'heart' of the administration is coming from is definitely questionable and downright aggressively cruel and indifferent to select groups of citizens!