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Transgender Pictures - Young Trans People, Photography

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  jbb  •  2 weeks ago  •  84 comments

By:   Sara Coughlin (refinery)

Transgender Pictures - Young Trans People, Photography
Photographer Charlotte Hadden is giving transgender children a chance to be their whole selves in front of the camera.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Sara CoughlinNovember 20, 2017, 7:20 PM

Photographed by Charlotte Hadden.From the moment photographer Charlotte Hadden started her project Between, in which she photographs transgender children in the U.K., she knew exactly how she wanted to approach the subject: on the children's own terms. "With all the misunderstanding surrounding young gender-questioning and trans people, I wanted to give them an opportunity to share their stories," Hadden tells Refinery29.She sees transgender children as having to live double lives, "not only adjusting to growing and maturing as a person, but [also] battling to become the person they feel inside and to have the freedom to express that." With that in mind, Hadden aimed to give them a chance to be their whole selves in front of the camera.By setting up in the children's homes and taking plenty of time to get to know them, Hadden makes her process as unobtrusive as possible — and makes sure that the children are part of it. She only takes a photo when it feels right, when the kids are totally comfortable with her.Between doesn't make any grand, sweeping generalizations about the transgender experience. Instead, it highlights the regular, everyday lives of its subjects, from how they talk about their gender identity to how they spend time at home. "I want the viewer to look at the portraits and to just see them for the fun, awkward, amazing kids that they are," Hadden says.Parents can get in direct contact with Hadden (whose project is ongoing) through Mermaids, a U.K.-based organization that provides support for transgender children. She says that their interest in her work — and the kids' willingness to share — has overwhelmed her in the best possible way."I've been really moved by how open they have been with me," Hadden says. "The courage it takes to talk to a loved one about your gender, and how you might be questioning it, I just can't even imagine. [The children] are all incredibly smart and open."Ahead, four of the kids Hadden has photographed talk with their parents about coming out.Gender and sexual orientation are both highly personal and constantly evolving. So, in honor of Transgender Awareness Week, we're talking about the importance of language and raising the voices of the LGBTQIA community. Welcome toGender Nation, where gender is defined by the people who live it. Want to learn more? Check outour Gender Nation glossary. For more stories on our many paths to, through, or away from parenthood, check outMothership.1 of 9Photographed by Charlotte Hadden. Leo
When did the subject of gender identity first come up? Who brought it up? How did that conversation go?
Gemma, Leo's mother: "Leo first brought the topic up. He had always been a 'tomboy,' but it was still a bolt out of the blue for us. He had, however, talked to someone at school about how he fancied girls but 'as a boy' and had been finding out about it online. He said when he discovered the word and meaning of 'transgender' he suddenly felt like this was a description that matched how he felt. Our first conversation about it was late at night and he was really upset. I'm afraid I didn't take it seriously or appreciate the thought he had put into it or the courage he took to bring it up. It's one of my biggest regrets."
Leo: "I was asking my dad of his opinions on transgender people. At the time I really didn't know much about gender identity or anything. I only told him that later on that night why I asked him that."2 of 9Photographed by Charlotte Hadden.Leo
Leo, how do you describe your gender identity now?
"I see myself as a boy. But the word for people like me is transgender, this means I was born in the wrong body and have the mind of the opposite sex."
Gemma, what hopes do you have for Leo as he continues to grow up?
"As Leo grows up and becomes more comfortable with himself, it's clear how much more confident and happy he already is. I think we're all pretty lucky with how our friends, family, and the school have taken it. Everyone has been almost universally supportive. I hope that as he gets older and starts to be able to make the physical changes he needs to make his body match his image of himself this progresses as well as possible (it's still a huge worry, as there are several major procedures he'll have to go through). I also hope he finds a partner that can make him as happy as he deserves to be! I'm so proud of how he has handled everything — he makes my heart burst."3 of 9Photographed by Charlotte Hadden.Rose
When did the subject of gender identity first come up? Who brought it up? How did that conversation go?
Rose's mother: "The subject of gender identity first came up when Rose was about 12. She was thinking she was different but didn't know why. She read a book called This Book is Gay by Juno Dawson, which answered some of her questions. Rose brought up the conversation over several months before we all started taking it seriously and we went to the GP as a family to investigate the process and find out more."4 of 9Photographed by Charlotte Hadden.Rose
What hopes do you have for Rose as she continues to grow up?
"I want Rose to be happy and fulfilled in herself — regardless of gender. I want her to enjoy being herself: a fabulous human being!"5 of 9Photographed by Charlotte Hadden.Ashlynn
When did the subject of gender identity first come up? Who brought it up? How did that conversation go?
Ashlynn: "I knew when I was 3 that something didn't feel right, but I couldn't put it into words. So I kept it to myself for a long time. Then when I was 8, and in the car with my mum and my sister, I told them. I said, 'Can I ask you a question, is there an operation to make me a girl, because I'm not a boy, I'm a girl?' I didn't even know what transgender was, I just knew I didn't feel right.
"I got really emotional, but my mum and my sister were cool with it. My mum later told me, she always knew there was something, she just wasn't sure what. I wasn't a stereotypical boy."6 of 9Photographed by Charlotte Hadden.Ashlynn
What hopes do you have for Ashlynn as she continues to grow up?
Ashlynn's mother: "We want what all parents want for their children — we want her to live a happy, healthy, long life, and achieve her full potential. Being transgender, or gender fluid, or non-binary, isn't an illness. It's just a part of who she is. She's a kid, like any other, who doesn't want to eat her vegetables, do her homework, or tidy her room! And she's creative, kind, and loving."7 of 9Photographed by Charlotte Hadden.Jay
When did the subject of gender identity first come up? Who brought it up? How did that conversation go?
Jay's mother: "When Jay and his twin sister were 2 and a half years old. they were learning to talk more and also starting to sort things — and people, including themselves — into categories; such as having brown or blonde or red hair, having blue or brown eyes, being a boy or a girl, etc.
"Rosie said she was a girl, like mummy and her big sister, Jay said he was a boy like daddy and his big brother. They both said it with exactly the same conviction. We assumed he was just confused, so told him repeatedly he was definitely a girl, although he correctly gendered all of our family and friends without any confusion. But he continued to say he was a boy, and as he got older he became more and more distressed about being misgendered or corrected."8 of 9Photographed by Charlotte Hadden.Jay
What hopes do you have for Jay as he continues to grow up?
"We hope that he continues to feel as accepted as he does at the moment, that he's comfortable enough to explore his gender identity and gender expression, and that he's able to create a life which brings him joy."9 of 9n/a.Related Video


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JBB
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JBB    2 weeks ago

original

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2  seeder  JBB    2 weeks ago

original

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3  seeder  JBB    2 weeks ago

original

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4  seeder  JBB    2 weeks ago

original

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5  seeder  JBB    2 weeks ago

original Why all the hate for these kids?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6  seeder  JBB    2 weeks ago

original

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

In my opinion trans people should be left alone, and when I say that I think it is over promoted by one side and over derided by the other. Just let them be, with full rights such as any other American has. 

 
 
 
Thomas
PhD Guide
7.1  Thomas  replied to  JohnRussell @7    2 weeks ago
In my opinion trans people should be left alone,

Full stop. Get the government out of the picture. It is not the government job nor purview to say one way or the other about children and the choices that they and their parents make. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
7.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Thomas @7.1    2 weeks ago

In many cases the parents are intentionally left out of the discussion as actions are taken on their children without their knowledge or consent. That's why responsible adults have to step in and stop it.

 
 
 
Thomas
PhD Guide
7.1.2  Thomas  replied to  Greg Jones @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

Prove it.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.3  seeder  JBB  replied to  Greg Jones @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

That is not true. You are repeating an untrue urban legend...

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Guide
7.1.4  Drakkonis  replied to  Thomas @7.1.2    2 weeks ago
Prove it.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.5  Tacos!  replied to  Greg Jones @7.1.1    2 weeks ago
In many cases the parents are intentionally left out of the discussion as actions are taken on their children without their knowledge or consent.

You have evidence of this?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  Drakkonis @7.1.4    2 weeks ago

That law covers people 16 and older in Maine. The law allows for hormone treatment, but not surgery. The age of consent in Maine is 16. That is not evidence of “many cases” involving “children.”

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.7  seeder  JBB  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.5    2 weeks ago

Uh hum...

original

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Guide
7.1.8  Drakkonis  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.6    2 weeks ago

The age of consent for hormone therapy is 16. And it is 16 because of the law that made it so specifically to allow hormone therapy without the consent of parents. That is, it is a very specific age of consent, not a general one, as a 16 year old cannot marry without their parent's consent. They can only do that when they turn 18. 

And, no, Mane doesn't consist of 'many cases', within the context of the total number of children wanting to transition, but it is not the only state with similar laws or similar workarounds. I just presented you with one example, and I got what I expected in reply. Basically, 'but that doesn't count because...". Thomas aske for proof. I gave it. You explained it away. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.9  Tacos!  replied to  Drakkonis @7.1.8    2 weeks ago

I think it would be great if people kept a less panicked perspective on this whole topic. Trump is trying to make parents think that their child goes to school as a certain sex, and comes home the same day a totally different person. None of this works like that.

Im also not going to buy that this is as important as the far right likes to claim because they’re so concerned about the children. This is about their sense of morality, and the need to see everyone else think and behave in a way they approve of.

Setting aside the notion that people should mind their own business, I can at least understand why you might be worried about someone else’s kid. After all, we do intervene in cases of abuse, and I’m fine with that. But most trans kids are not going through something that requires that kind of attention from the rest of society. If anything, they have a good chance of being victimized because they are trans.

If they were so concerned about society’s children, conservatives wouldn’t be so offended at the notion of funding food, education, and general medical care for kids. They’ll buy extra bibles for the school before they buy lunch.

Young people who actually transition in any way are not doing it on their own unless their parents are intentionally unsupportive. Some may just present themselves as the other sex. Even fewer are getting any kind of hormone blockers or surgery before puberty. And in spite of laws allowing 16 year olds to get hormones (i.e. after puberty), none of this is happening without lots of counseling from mental health experts and medical doctors. But what do they know, right? Senator Whozit from Wherever is the real authority.

Random, uneducated voters or legislators, who haven’t been through it, and don’t understand how any of it works, should not be getting in the business of people who actually are going through it.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.9    2 weeks ago
Senator Whozit from Wherever is the real authority.

And is from Whoville Arkansas with barely a literate education

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Guide
7.1.11  Drakkonis  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.9    2 weeks ago
I think it would be great if people kept a less panicked perspective on this whole topic. Trump is trying to make parents think that their child goes to school as a certain sex, and comes home the same day a totally different person. None of this works like that.

Even if this were true, which I don't think it is, it's irrelevant. The issue I responded to concerned Greg's point...

In many cases the parents are intentionally left out of the discussion as actions are taken on their children without their knowledge or consent. That's why responsible adults have to step in and stop it. 7.1.1

We have the state taking fundamental parental rights as parents from parents in order to promote an ideologically based agenda. These rights are something parents fundamentally possess as parents and are not rights granted by the state, yet the state believes it has the right to take them. It is difficult to imagine something more evil than this. 

Im also not going to buy that this is as important as the far right likes to claim because they’re so concerned about the children. This is about their sense of morality, and the need to see everyone else think and behave in a way they approve of.

I find it difficult to believe you actually believe what you are saying. I don't even have kids but the idea of the state interfering in such a fundamentally intrusive way in parental rights to raise their children seems so inarguably Orwellian that even a childless person such as myself can understand the issue. Suppose the state created a law that allowed your child to participate in something that promoted Nazi ideals without your knowledge or consent and actively protected that right. That, if you at some point found out, there would be nothing you could legally do about it? 

As usually happens, you're likely to rabbit hole this point with nonsense about how trans issues and Nazi ideology aren't comparable. That is not the point. The point is the state's erroneous belief it has the right to overrule your parental rights in raising your own children in favor of its own ideologically driven agenda. 

But most trans kids are not going through something that requires that kind of attention from the rest of society.

Still misses the point. The kids aren't what I am addressing. Parental rights is. 

That said, since the whole trans issue is about a major break from reality, this does require attention from the rest of society concerning the trans question. Are we going to be a society that operates on objective facts or are we going to be based on feelings and desires? 

If they were so concerned about society’s children, conservatives wouldn’t be so offended at the notion of funding food, education, and general medical care for kids. They’ll buy extra bibles for the school before they buy lunch.

Nonsense. As stated, I have no children, yet I have it set up to where I automatically have money taken out of my bank account to send to the public school system to help disadvantaged kids have lunch. I spend no money that puts Bibles in schools. And you know I am conservative. Many of the people at my church do the same thing because this is a program my church participates in. There are no religious strings attached to it. We just send the money. What do you suppose the odds are that my church is the only one in this city, let alone the country, that does so? 

Random, uneducated voters or legislators, who haven’t been through it, and don’t understand how any of it works, should not be getting in the business of people who actually are going through it.

A part of me is astonished that you don't see the tyranny your overall view on this subject is, while the other part totally expects it of those who think as you do. Where's the tyranny, you might ask? It's in that you seem to find nothing at all wrong with the state (in this case, Mane) interfering with a parent's right to raise their children in accordance with their moral values and best judgement over your persona view expressed in the above quote. That is, it's okay for the state to override the parents because you think they have no right to prevent a child from doing something you find no fault with. That's the tyranny. You approve of interfering with someone else's family because you believe your ideology justifies it. And don't deny that you do approve, or you wouldn't have attempted the justification that you did in 7.1.6

As for random, uneducated voters or legislators. Could you be more elitist? What you actually mean is only those who agree with your point of view are not random or uneducated. Seriously? 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.12  Tacos!  replied to  Drakkonis @7.1.11    2 weeks ago
We have the state taking fundamental parental rights as parents from parents in order to promote an ideologically based agenda.

That "agenda" is simply that young people should have some say in things that impact them personally, particularly their health and well-being. I don't think that's such an unreasonable ideology, nor is it without precedent. For example, here in California, if a couple is getting divorced, children of 14 years have some say in which parent they will live with. Personally, I believe good parenting involves taking the wishes of a child (whatever their age) into serious consideration.

These rights are something parents fundamentally possess as parents

Like all rights, they are limited, not absolute. They also diminish as the children grow older. The age number of 18 is arbitrary. Children, by the way, have fundamental rights just by virtue of being human beings. Anti-abortion advocates insist a fetus has a right to life, but apparently, if you're under 18, your rights end there.

yet the state believes it has the right to take them

The state is not taking parental rights. It is balancing them against the rights of their children. Many rights are subjected to balancing tests.

 the whole trans issue is about a major break from reality

No, it is actually the result of modern education and research revealing a greater understanding of reality. Religious conservatives reject any new understanding of human sexuality and hold fast to Old Testament dogma. Everything they don't understand or that makes them uncomfortable is dismissed as "sin."

That is, it's okay for the state to override the parents

Yes. In many circumstances. Children are human beings with rights. They are not the property of parents. There are many things that a parent is not permitted to force on a child, and there are also many things a parent is not permitted to withhold from a child. Gender affirming care is just another item in a long list.

 
 
 
Thomas
PhD Guide
7.1.13  Thomas  replied to  Drakkonis @7.1.4    2 weeks ago

From the linked article:

The bill,   approved   last month by the Maine Legislature, specifies that minors must first receive an official diagnosis with   gender dysphoria , a condition in which one’s internal gender identity does not match their outward sex, from a qualified health care professional prior to treatment. It also stipulates that health care providers giving gender-altering services to minors must educate them on the possible effects of the treatment. The bill does not apply to surgical procedures.

Sounds alright to me. At 16 one can drop out of school. That is a life altering decision that the parents don't have much say in, either. Usually, by 16 it is too late to totally undo puberty's effects on the physical body. If one knows, then one should start to transition as soon as possible. 

Here are the questions that we should be asking: 

  • Who are they afraid of?
  • Why would they be more receptive of a medical professional's opinion than that of their parents?
  • Why would anybody wish to go through a long process that so many people in this country are adamantly opposed to?

I see people's objections to gender fluidity as just another control move by the patriarchal society in which we live, designed to make the point that men and religion are 1) in control and 2) assholes who will control what people do, the rights of those people be damned. 

I choose not to participate in that particular paradigm.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.14  seeder  JBB  replied to  Drakkonis @7.1.11    2 weeks ago

About one to two percent of children born are born intersex, or with undefinable external sex characteristics. Historically doctors and parents most often made the difficult decision to operate right away in babies and to designate female because that was the only way surgeons knew how to proceed back when. This was usually done privately and was never talked about to protect the children. This approach is no longer the standard. Instead the child now would be given puberty blockers until their legal age of consent...

That is probably what you heard about. It was fairly common...

It was nobody's business except the patient's, parent's and dr's!

Transgender children denied hormone therapy are at huge risk.

Again, none of anyone else's business. Nothing is more private!

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.15  sandy-2021492  replied to  JBB @7.1.14    2 weeks ago

People forget this about gender-affirming care.  I grew up with one of these children.  Genetically male, physically indeterminate assigned and raised as male (more unusual, but it happens).  When health issues forced a transition to female, their family was run out of town by death threats to their children (adopted, of course).

She (as she is known now) has been a recipient of gender-affirming care all her life.  Necessary care, regardless of which gender she was living as.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.16  seeder  JBB  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.15    2 weeks ago

I understand and have personally known three children who were born as "intersexed". You cannot tell by just knowing someone what exactly they are dealing with, in their pants. Calling all childhood sexual surgery "Mutilation" is plain dumb and wrongheaded. Like condemning and legally banning all childhood circumcisions or corrective surgeries for men. Just between you and me, a whole lot of women have been "Modified", and it was no more anyone else's business than with trans children!

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.17  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @7.1.16    2 weeks ago

If you know three kids must  who were  born intersexed, you must know thousands of kids intimately.  Staticially, you'd have to know the intimate details of well over 10,000 kids to know three who are intersexed. 

Moreover, Intersex and transgender  are not the same, at all.  Conflating the two is a common dishonest debating technique to avoid the reality of dealing with people who are fully developed males or females dressing up as the other sex. 

Some males don't have a functioning penis, therefore a male with a fully functioning penis should be able to shower with girls isn't really a compelling argument.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.18  seeder  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.17    2 weeks ago

You are wrong. Intersex was grossly under reported historically because of obvious personal reasons. You probably know kids born with messed up external sex organs and do not know! 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.19  Tacos!  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.17    2 weeks ago
Staticially, you'd have to know the intimate details of well over 10,000 kids to know three who are intersexed.

Do you really need to be told that probabilities are not the whole story of a person’s real life?

Moreover, Intersex and transgender  are not the same, at all.

They are obviously different terms, with distinct definitions, but there can be overlap within individuals. So, if you think a given person is just one or the other, you might be wrong. The real question is why you - or anyone - think this issue in an individual is subject to such extreme control from government so as to outlaw ordinary treatment protocols recommended by doctors.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.20  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @7.1.18    2 weeks ago
tersex was grossly under reported historically because of obvious personal reasons

I'm going to go with the numbers provided by experts and not a guy on the internet. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
7.1.21  Split Personality  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.20    2 weeks ago
and not a guy on the internet. 

Says a guy on the internet.  

Irony?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.22  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.19    2 weeks ago
o you really need to be told that probabilities are not the whole story of a person’s real life?

Nice irrelevant point. 

think this issue in an individual is subject to such extreme control from government so as to outlaw ordinary treatment protocols recommended by doctors.

You sound like the people who get mad their doctor can't prescribe them ivermectin for Covid.  I hate to break it to you but the government regulates treatment protocols and doctors aren't allowed to just do what they recommend. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.23  Tacos!  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.20    2 weeks ago
I'm going to go with the numbers provided by experts and not a guy on the internet.

I suggest you take your numbers and go mind your own business with them. But if you’d like some more numbers on children, I’m here to help.

Number 1 cause of death in children under age 17? Guns! It’s over 2,000 a year. It surpassed the Number 2 cause of death a few years back, which is motor vehicles.

Cancer is Number 3, and the federal government just cut a bunch of funding for cancer research. Next, come things like suffocation, poisoning, drowning.

No sense of emergency from the religious right on any of these issues, but by God, we’re going to do something about those awful transgender kids! Priorities!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.24  seeder  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.20    2 weeks ago

Both my parents were lifelong educators and I have been involved with a national youth group my whole life. So, I've known a lot of kids. My cousin "Jayme" is intersex and has chosen to remain so. Also, a beautiful girl who won many national awards from that youth organization was born with no vagina or uterus. This was a closely guarded secret. The designation of "Intersexed" at birth is not limited merely to full on hermaphrodites...

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.25  Tacos!  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.22    2 weeks ago

Yes, you trying to make a point with statistics was irrelevant. You do get it.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.26  Tacos!  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.22    2 weeks ago
You sound like the people who get mad their doctor can't prescribe them ivermectin for Covid. 

Actually, doctors do prescribe it. Not all, of course. I don’t care. It’s not my body.

I hate to break it to you but the government regulates treatment protocols and doctors aren't allowed to just do what they recommend. 

Yeah, usually because a treatment is both ineffective and dangerous. Gender affirming care is generally safe and effective. Context matters, ya know? When you say “well government regulates this, so it can regulate that,” it just shows you’re either ignorant of the proper context, or you don’t care.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.27  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.23    2 weeks ago

No sense of emergency from the religious right on any of these issu

I didn't realize 2/3 of the country is the religious right now.  Times change I guess. 

When government schools start shooting kids and intentionally  giving them cancer, I'm sure the "religious right" will object to that too. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.28  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @7.1.24    2 weeks ago
nts were lifelong educators and I have been involved with a national youth group my whole life

The number of intersex people is vanishingly small, the actual number of intersex people whose gender is indeterminate is a small percentage of that. Not to mention that the large percentage of intersex people are not transgender. Conflating the two is dishonest. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.29  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.25    2 weeks ago
es, you trying to make a point with statistics was irrelevant. You do get i

I'm sorry you find statistics irrelevant in demonstrating how rare something is. Numbers aren't for everyone. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.30  seeder  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.29    2 weeks ago

Says a guy who falsely believes that 2/3rds of all Americans are rightwing Christian evangelicals. They are not. Not even close!

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.31  Tacos!  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.27    2 weeks ago
I didn't realize 2/3 of the country is the religious right now.

Never said they were. I don’t even know what that means.

When government schools start shooting kids and intentionally  giving them cancer

So government schools are making kids trans? Silly. But government is intentionally withdrawing funding for research into children’s cancer treatments.

My point is these things could be a priority for the Right. And since you like statistics, they should be a priority for you. But instead you want to look away from more prevalent problems that actually kill children so you can harass 1% of 1% of families who aren’t killing kids or allowing them to die needlessly.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.32  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @7.1.30    2 weeks ago

ho falsely believes that 2/3rds of all Americans are rightwing Christian evangelicals. They are not. Not even close!

Might want to read what I wrote again. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.33  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.31    2 weeks ago
o government schools are making kids trans?

They are  (at least in Illinois) making girls share lockers with and change in front of trans boys. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.34  seeder  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.33    2 weeks ago

A trans girl changing into gym shorts is not exhabitionism...

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.35  Tacos!  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.33    2 weeks ago

Yeah, you know that’s not the school making someone trans, right? And I’m sure it’s a lot more awkward for the trans kid than the cis kids.

 
 
 
Thomas
PhD Guide
7.1.36  Thomas  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.33    2 weeks ago
They are  (at least in Illinois) making girls share lockers with and change in front of trans boys. 

No, they are not.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.37  Vic Eldred  replied to  Drakkonis @7.1.4    2 weeks ago

That was easy.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Guide
7.1.38  Drakkonis  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.33    2 weeks ago
They are  (at least in Illinois) making girls share lockers with and change in front of trans boys.

Hate to say it but you're wasting your time. There's no reality they won't excuse away to support their ideology. No matter what you say, they will just come up with whatever sounds good to them and think they're telling you something that means something. They want it to be true so therefor it is. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.39  seeder  JBB  replied to  Drakkonis @7.1.38    2 weeks ago

How odd old white men think they are victims of trans hate...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.40  bugsy  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.23    2 weeks ago

According to one of JBBs post he used to prove my point in another seed, suicide of those that transitioned is rated number 4 death of children. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.41  bugsy  replied to  JBB @7.1.30    2 weeks ago
Says a guy who falsely believes that 2/3rds of all Americans are rightwing Christian evangelicals.

Show where he said that...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.42  bugsy  replied to  JBB @7.1.39    2 weeks ago
How odd old white men think they are victims of trans hate...

What makes you think he is an old white man?

Is it a [] toward old white men?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.43  bugsy  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.35    2 weeks ago

Hiding information about children from their parents is encouraging these kids that what they feel is real and their parents can't do anything about it.

Here is a link to an article that another poster here tried to use to show that suicide in trans kids was a non existent issue. In reality, they are almost 8x more susceptible to suicide than their heterosexual counterparts. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Guide
7.1.44  Drakkonis  replied to  JBB @7.1.39    2 weeks ago
How odd old white men think they are victims of trans hate...

Yes, thanks for the example of what I was talking about in 7.1.38

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
7.1.45  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Thomas @7.1.36    2 weeks ago

Thanks for posting the video that COMPLETLY DESTROYS THE MORONIC RIGHTWING NARRATIVE as it details the FACTS and not just some MAGAite Mom's "story". As the school points out "EACH LOCKER ROOM HAS PRIVATE CHANGING STATIONS". So how the fuck could this bigoted bitch's story be true? It can't and it's not, it's just another case of bullshit manufactured by the religious conservatives.

This bigoted mother is the conservatives Jussie Smollett, just another lying attention seeker.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.46  bugsy  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.1.45    2 weeks ago

Soooooooooo...if one of the real girls has to go to the bathroom in the middle of changing and she puts a towel around her to get there, that makes it OK if the dude is standing outside the changing station.

If you had a daughter, would you be OK with a male watching her, in a towel only.

I suspect you would have a problem with it, but because these girls are not,.....................

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
7.1.47  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  bugsy @7.1.46    2 weeks ago
Soooooooooo...if one of the real girls has to go to the bathroom in the middle of changing

Besides the fact that my 15 year old daughter wouldn't care in the slightest because she has a transgender friend at her high school who she's gone shopping for dresses with, my daughter wouldn't be stupid enough to fall for your non-sensical fictional scenario where a girl simply can't hold it for the minute it takes to finish changing and is forced to leave the changing room half naked to run to a bathroom stall.

So just stop with all the bullshit fantasy about how no matter what schools do to support our children's privacy, that a trans student shouldn't be allowed to exist at schools, otherwise rightwing bigoted conservative Christians will demand their right to bully and abuse them out of existence because of their own shallow selfish fictional religious worldview.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.48  Tacos!  replied to  bugsy @7.1.43    2 weeks ago
In reality, they are almost 8x more susceptible to suicide than their heterosexual counterparts. 

Generally, that can be connected to rejection at home. Trans kids with supportive, affirming families do very well.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Expert
7.1.49  CB  replied to  Drakkonis @7.1.38    2 weeks ago

Well since conservative children will not be having or suffering gender dysphoria ever as children, no problem right?  There is nothing for conservatives to fret over. . . I know that -so do they. They're just here trying to control the systems of this world and make a new political issue and so-called culture war issue.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.50  Tacos!  replied to  bugsy @7.1.46    2 weeks ago

Have been in a locker room? A public bathroom? What do you imagine goes on in there?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.51  bugsy  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.50    2 weeks ago
Have been in a locker room?

I have. Do you know what goes on in them?  Let me assist.

People use locker rooms to shower, change clothes, use the bathroom, etc.

Some locker rooms have open showers where some have individual stalls.

Would you be OK is you had a daughter that had to use an open shower and a dude that claims to be a woman enters and showers at the shower next to her?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.52  Sean Treacy  replied to  bugsy @7.1.51    2 weeks ago

The idea that males should be changing in front of teen aged girls would have been rejected by 99.99% of Americans 25 years ago. It's ludicrous on its face.  But the cult of the perpetually aggrieved needed a new cause after gay marriage to call other people Nazis about. So they moved onto ensuring "trans" boys can play women sports, change in front of girls  and watch girls change in locker rooms.  Thankfully, they didn't move onto make a NAMBLA like organization their cause,  but that's probably next if they ever feel they've won this. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.53  bugsy  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.1.47    2 weeks ago
Besides the fact that my 15 year old daughter wouldn't care in the slightest because she has a transgender friend at her high school who she's gone shopping for dresses with,

How do you know she doesn't care?

Does she know how you vehemently support people like her "friend" and is afraid to tell you she feels uncomfortable trying on dresses together with a guy?

Nobody has said trans kids should not be allowed in schools.

The only argument that is being made that if a guy makes believe he is a girl, he should still use the male bathroom, no matter what his fantasy tells him what he is.  

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.54  bugsy  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.52    2 weeks ago
hankfully, they didn't move onto make a NAMBLA like organization their cause,  but that's probably next if they ever feel they've won this. 

This is very, very true

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.55  seeder  JBB  replied to  bugsy @7.1.53    2 weeks ago

A trans girl is not a guy and nobody is harmed if she changes in a private changing area in the girl's locker room. Though, this child would be in infinitely more danger in the boy's locker room...

original

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.56  bugsy  replied to  JBB @7.1.55    2 weeks ago
A trans girl is not a guy

Yes he is.

There is a such thing as science, ie, XX and XY chromosomes.

You should look up what those mean. 

Why do you continuously post pictures of children on a social site. Did these children or their parents give you permission to do so?

Also, can you prove this child is a trans? Yesterday, one of the pictures you posted claiming the women in the picture were trans were proven to be actual women on a women's rights page. 

Any picture you post with a claim is sketchy.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.57  Tacos!  replied to  bugsy @7.1.51    2 weeks ago
People use locker rooms to shower, change clothes, use the bathroom, etc.

Seems harmless.

Would you be OK is you had a daughter that had to use an open shower and a dude that claims to be a woman enters and showers at the shower next to her?

Details. Examples. What do you think is happening? Do you think some trans girl is raping the cis girls? Forcing themselves on the others? And this assault goes unreported? Why are your panties in such a twist?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.58  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @7.1.55    2 weeks ago

Can you become black just deciding to be a black man or woman today? After all, there’s Less of a biological basis for race, so it seems if a white guy with a dick can declare himself a woman, no reason he can’t be a black woman, 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.59  Sean Treacy  replied to  bugsy @7.1.56    2 weeks ago

Any picture you post with a claim is sketchy.

posting pictures of kids in this discussion is very sketchy.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.60  seeder  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.59    2 weeks ago

They are the children featured in the seeded article...

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
7.1.61  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  bugsy @7.1.53    2 weeks ago
How do you know she doesn't care?

Because we talk about this stuff and she's the one pointing out where I'm still a bit too conservative and stuck in the past having been raised a conservative Christian and had a pastor for a father and became one myself for over a decade. Now my daughter is teaching me to be more honest, humble and accepting of those I once condemned all because I believed some invisible being somewhere said so.

Does she know how you vehemently support people like her "friend" and is afraid to tell you she feels uncomfortable trying on dresses together with a guy?

Like I said, I know because we communicate daily and have a very open dialog about anything and everything.

Nobody has said trans kids should not be allowed in schools.

If rightwing conservative Christians had their way that's exactly what they'd be demanding. For now, they're just demanding that they not be allowed in either of the two gendered restrooms and locker rooms which are the only ones on campus for no fucking reason other than some brainless religious conservative is projecting their own perverted fantasy imagination of themselves being able to sneak into a girls locker room when they were school and what they'd be thinking and doing if only they got that chance.

The only argument that is being made that if a guy makes believe he is a girl, he should still use the male bathroom, no matter what his fantasy tells him what he is.

I guess there are those who go out of their way to take good long looks over the dividers at the men's room stalls, those curious religious conservatives who can't help but stare at someone else going to the bathroom, or those women who just take all their clothes off as they go into a bathroom stall or perhaps think it's just common curtesy to stand on a toilet in the next stall so they can peek over the top at their fellow women heeding natures call, so it just makes soooo much sense to make sure there are no people born with a dangly bit using a women's restroom or vice versa. Interesting point though, doing any of that peeping and invasion of privacy is already illegal whether someone is trans or not so I'm not sure what the problem is here.

Seriously, when was the last time you were in a public restroom and saw someone naked? And if that's not happening, then why is anyone throwing a fit about seeing someone in a towel when they're not bitching about sending their daughters to spring break where they can leave virtually nothing to the imagination of just about any rando that happens to be on the beach that day. 

This whole debate is about the tiny less than 1% minority of trans persons in society but the rightwing religious conservatives are up in arms over it and it's not even a real problem, they're making shit up just like this lying bitch of a mother claiming her daughter was "forced" to change in front of a trans student when the school provides "private changing stations". It's a fucking fake complaint and they know it but it certainly gets a lot of mileage on rightwing media, they'll ride that fake dead horse till the tiny lawn gnome jockey ends up in their ass. It's so fake that some have to make up some bullshit scenario of "But, but, but, but what if...".

I guess if there's one consolation, I know my daughter's generation is going to continue the work of tearing down the white rightwing religious conservative Christo-fascist patriarchy which has sadly had a resurgence under their Dear Leader the Mango Mussolini. Hopefully these are just the death throes of the dying headless snake that America finally realizes they shouldn't have trusted. The pendulum of justice will take some time to swing back after being forced towards rightwing authoritarianism by lovers of Putin and fascism who are too stupid to know their fascists, but it will eventually eradicate those slimy scum bags of putrescence like Donald Trump and any who follow such a reprehensible pile of shit and vomit.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7.1.62  seeder  JBB  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.1.61    2 weeks ago

Thank you and well said...

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1.63  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.58    2 weeks ago

Because ethnicity and gender are practically the same thing, huh?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1.64  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  bugsy @7.1.56    2 weeks ago

Wow bugsy, you sure have good vision.  You can see right into peoples chromosomes.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
7.2  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @7    2 weeks ago

We'd love to let them be themselves. That's great for adults. But we are presented with articles just like this one posted by someone who apparently obsesses over gender pretenders and seems to support them. Most people believe that a large majority of the troubled young people with supposed gender dysphoria eventually grow out of it, and that counseling would be beneficial.

Then there are people who believe "affirming" these feelings is the quick and easy answer, and that hormones. puberty blockers, and surgery is indicated. And then we get into the issue of trampling on the rights of biological females which has brought widespread negative attention to the purveyors of this lie. As stated previously, it curious why the progressives persist in fighting a battle they can't win, what with harming minor children, perhaps for life. They're committing political suicide.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
7.2.1  evilone  replied to  Greg Jones @7.2    2 weeks ago

Sure. It's much better that our society sexualizes young woman for the enjoyment and entertainment of men. And if one of our boys growing up doesn't agree it's a good thing then we tear him down as not a 'real man'. Much of the mental health profession is built on the backs of people who don't conform to a fictionalized standard of beauty, gender roles and stereotypes. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.2.2  Tacos!  replied to  Greg Jones @7.2    2 weeks ago
Most people believe that a large majority of the troubled young people with supposed gender dysphoria eventually grow out of it, and that counseling would be beneficial.

What makes you think people aren’t going through counseling?

Then there are people who believe "affirming" these feelings

It’s not just “feelings.” There is so much more to this than you apparently understand. You judge from ignorance.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
7.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @7.2    2 weeks ago
We'd love to let them be themselves.

Then try it sometime.

But we are presented with articles just like this one posted by someone who apparently obsesses over gender pretenders and seems to support them.

No one forced you to read it, but apparently you did.

Most people believe that a large majority of the troubled young people with supposed gender dysphoria eventually grow out of it, and that counseling would be beneficial.

That doesn't make ignorance any more acceptable.

Then there are people who believe "affirming" these feelings is the quick and easy answer, and that hormones. puberty blockers, and surgery is indicated.

Maybe, but they aren't doctors, counselors or surgeons.  Average time of counseling is five years, average time on hormone therapy is 12 years (1 to 39 range).  While the surgeries are usually less than 5 hours and only take 6 months to recover from, the results are for a lifetime.  Somone else's lifetime.

NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

As stated previously, it curious why the progressives persist in fighting a battle they can't win, what with harming minor children, perhaps for life. They're committing political suicide.

These are your biases.  You believe in a free society only as long as it conforms to your values.  You are wrong.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Expert
7.2.4  CB  replied to  Greg Jones @7.2    2 weeks ago

Well there you go culture warrior 101. Will in a world where we were told there's no perfection. Anyone trying to turn ideology into perfect state of being foolish. And that's probably why there will always be something "new" to come upon humanity to keep us humble and from deceiving to ourselves.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Expert
7.2.5  CB  replied to  Tacos! @7.2.2    2 weeks ago

 We are humans not cyborgs. And I for one will challenge anyone here to prove to me that their feelings don't inform them in their choices in life!

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8  Hal A. Lujah    2 weeks ago

I witnessed my step daughter transition into my step son.  You would not know it if you saw him now.  He has a full beard, a man’s voice, and a loving wife.  If clueless conservatives saw him in a ladies restroom like they think he should be using, they’d hold him down and call the cops.  I watched a full time miserable person transition into a happy, healthy, successful adult.  I don’t pretend to understand why a person would do this to themself, but I don’t need to understand it to know that the outcome was a thousand times better this way.  They need to be treated like any other human and people need to mind their own fucking business.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Expert
8.1  CB  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8    2 weeks ago

I love this message! And I I'm tired of the people who need to put others down and try to keep hatreds, plural, alive!

It's time we put a big SPOTLIGHT on their rhetoric and not let them get away or have any satisfaction from it.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Expert
9  CB    2 weeks ago

Their is room for everybody in this world, and in our country for all its well behaved citizens. We have to protect members of our community that are the least of these, definitely because they don't have a political platform that can aid them in protection from bullies and their sick bull crap!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
9.1  seeder  JBB  replied to  CB @9    2 weeks ago

Talk about punching down! MAGA are picking on young transgender girls. Out of all the real dangers in the world the MAGA have choosen to demonize and dehumanize the very most vulnerable least threatening kids imaginable!

 
 
 
Thomas
PhD Guide
9.1.1  Thomas  replied to  JBB @9.1    2 weeks ago
Out of all the real dangers in the world the MAGA have choosen to demonize and dehumanize the very most vulnerable least threatening kids imaginable!

That goes hand in hand with being bullying and racketeering. In other words, right on the MAGA playbook cover.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Expert
9.1.2  CB  replied to  JBB @9.1    2 weeks ago

We should not extend any understanding or acceptance for type of viciousness. These people would like to perceive themselves as being helpful to the youth of tomorrow. But that notion takes no stock of the fact these kids are hurting... and so are their parents. Nobody's in this for fortune and fame.  Nobody should be in this to objectify the kids or for anything other than the children because that would mean they have missed the point and ought to be ashamed of themselves. 

But back to the children, ....

There are doctors, possibly lawyers and medical professionals up and down the spectrum that are trying to help these kids, and and sadly religious conservative love to fight their cultural wars on somebody else's turf and life decisions. The format goes pick a small group of people on the outside margins, demonize them for political purposes. Now you have your culture war issue to be funded, talked about on television, and voted on by religious types and other conservatives in each and every future election thereafter.

 
 

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