Israel's critics are growing more vocal. What does that mean for Gaza?
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Criticism of Israel is ramping up. What does that mean for the war in Gaza?
byAvishay Artsy
Palestinians clear the rubble of the Azzam family home which was hit in Israeli strikes on central Jabalia in the northern Gaza Strip on May 29, 2025. Bashar Taleb/AFP/Getty ImagesAvishay Artsyis a senior producer of Vox's daily news explainer podcast and radio show Today, Explained.
In Israel, left-wing politician Yair Golan, a retired general, recently stirred controversy when he said in an interview with Israel Radio that "Israel is on the way to becoming a pariah state" and added that "a sane country does not fight against civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not set itself the aim of expelling populations."
In the face of intense criticism, he has since walked back those comments.
But while Golan's comments were condemned across the Israeli political spectrum, they "also sparked a discussion about Israel's conduct and what it is doing and the toll of the war on civilians," said Tia Goldenberg, a correspondent for the Associated Press in Jerusalem.
In an interview with Vox's Today, Explained, Goldenberg said Golan's comments are indicative of the fact that Israelis are increasingly turning against their country's war in Gaza.
That war began on October 7, 2023, when an attack by Hamas fighters left 1,200 dead and 250 captured. Some of those kidnapped have been returned; others have died. There are 58 hostages remaining in Gaza, of which a third are believed to be alive.
Israel's attacks on Gaza have killed more than 50,000 people and have devastated Gaza, leaving much of it uninhabitable. In recent weeks, it has expanded its military offensive, with increased air strikes and a goal of capturing the entire Gaza Strip and moving the population of Gaza to the south of the territory.
That escalation comes amid a dire hunger crisis. Israel began a total humanitarian aid blockade on March 2 in order to increase pressure on Hamas to return the remaining hostages, leading one critic to accuse the country of using aid as a "weapon of war" during an April hearing on Israel's war strategy at the International Court of Justice.
"During these few weeks, or nearly three months actually, no aid was being let into Gaza, no food, no medicine, no fuel, and you had a situation where food experts were warning that nearly 1 million Palestinians barely had enough access to food, and nearly half a million Palestinians were at the risk of possible starvation," Goldenberg said.
The escalating strikes and threat of mass starvation haven't just roiled Israeli politics; they've also drawn worldwide condemnation of Israel and created an unlikely coalition of critics.
MAGA-friendly podcaster and standup comedian Theo Von recently described the ongoing conflict in Gaza as a "genocide" and "one of the sickest things that's ever happened."
Leading children's entertainer and YouTube star Ms. Rachel has used her platform to talk about how the conflict is affecting children in the region.
"It's sad that people try to make it controversial when you speak out for children that are facing immeasurable suffering," she told Zeteo's Mehdi Hasan. "I think it should be controversial to not say anything."
The new pope, Leo XIV, like his predecessor, has appealed for a ceasefire in Gaza, the freeing of the remaining hostages, and called on Israel and Hamas to respect international humanitarian law.
German leaders have made public comments about changing their country's long-running special relationship with Israel, while French President Emmanuel Macron has floated acknowledging Palestine as a state.
Even President Donald Trump, a longtime ally of Israel and of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, has started to suggest he's seen enough. "Israel, we've been talking to them, and we want to see if we can stop that whole situation as quickly as possible," he said last weekend.
All of this suggests an inflection point in Israel's long-running war. It has been made possible in part thanks to aid from allies like the US, Germany, and France. If that support were to deteriorate, continuing its operations could become more difficult.
That is not to say the war's end is necessarily near.
Despite the shift in rhetoric, few of Israel's allies have made any material changes to their relationship with the country. Israel's goal of completely destroying Hamas has not changed. It recently killed Mohammed Sinwar, believed to be the head of Hamas's armed wing.
"It's just been an intense, intense conflict. And yet that hasn't dislodged Hamas from its position. Netanyahu, meanwhile, is under a lot of political pressure from his governing coalition to continue the war," Goldenberg said. "It's hard to see how the sides reconcile and come to an agreement that ends this war."
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As barbaric as Oct 7th was, the killing of tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians was never going to be seen by most of the world as completely justified. Instead of finding or creating off ramps over the past year or so, Israel has doubled down and now it is at the point their friends in the international community are dwindling.
Extremely poor judgement, and misjudgment of world sentiment in my opinion.
Why should they "find or create offramps" until they feel secure that 10/7 won't ever happen again?
And you can blame Hamas for most of that killing also, hiding within civilian areas. Normally a war ends when one side surrenders or a treaty is signed. So if Canada decided to attack the US and the only thing that would make them satisfied is the US no longer existed would you want the US to have a treaty with a country that still says the US doesn't have a right to exist?
Which is why sooner or later Israeli will punch Iran in the face and kick it in the Cahoones. Only then will Hamas slink away to places in Africa where they believe they will be safe.
Hamas will fight and kill Jews to the last militant standing, because the UN and UNWRA has enabled and encouraged them to do so, because the Gazan civilians who danced in the streets and passed around candies when Oct 7 happened celebrated their doing so, because America's "best friend in the world" Iran has provided them with the financial means, arms and psychological method to do so, because the bleeding hearts around the world have been mind-poisoned by the Iranian method of psychological warfare to support those declared terrorists and their supporting civilians, and because the Q'oran COMMANDS them to do it.
I think Entebbe, is proof that is not necessarily true when it comes to Israel.
I think SP meant that Hamas might be safe in Africa, not the Israelis or Jews. Besides Entebbe, South Africa is no friend of Israel.
"During these few weeks, or nearly three months actually, no aid was being let into Gaza, no food, no medicine, no fuel, and you had a situation where food experts were warning that nearly 1 million Palestinians barely had enough access to food, and nearly half a million Palestinians were at the risk of possible starvation," Goldenberg said.
The above is simply not true. It is Hamas who is withholding the food and medical supplies.
"Goldenberg said. "It's hard to see how the sides reconcile and come to an agreement that ends this war.""
The Hamas terrorists don't want to reconcile or have a state of their own, their only goal in life is to kill and exterminate every last Jew.
We've repeatedly been over this issue before. Many on the left are befuddled and confused and believe the Hamas lies and propaganda and support them. Sane and rational people known who is the real villain here.
Because you, comfortable 7,000 miles away know better than a pro Israeli journalist on the ground?
Hamas has kept earlier relief for itself, true.
Like Hezbolah? The Houthi's?
Many on the right blindly follow the GOP goosestep and Israeli propaganda too.
The people supplying Hamas, Houthi's and Hezbollah and Israel with state of the art weapons?
This has been and continues to be a perfect victory for Hamas using the psychological warfare both verbally and on the ground that Iran taught them to do. Those who cannot see that are either weak-minded or antisemitic to start with anyway. It has not only rallied the bleeding hearts around the world, given patent antisemitism a stronger voice and given latent antisemitism an open door, The United Nations, defending its UNRWA workers who have helped Hamas, has also proven that the crimes that the declared terrorist organization Hamas have committed that started the war which Israel has once and for all decided to stop the Hamas terror from happening again are acceptable in comparison to what a nation is forced to do to prevent a repeat of its innocent civilians being slaughtered and kidnapped again and again.
You cant kill 50,000 people in retaliation for the slaughter of 1200 and think all will go well in perpetuity. Israel should have stopped a long long time ago.
And let Hamas rebuild and rearm to strike Israel once again?
Why do you believe those numbers without question. How come you never put any of the blame on Hamas?
Leaving the job half done is insanity, If Hamas doesn't give a shit about their kids and women and the elderly and continue to put them in harm's way, then why should anyone else care?
It is not for retaliation, it is to make sure the people that say Israel has no right to exist are never strong enough to attack again.
In other words, Hamas used a lot of shields. They voted for Hamas.
Maybe creating a new generation of terrorists keeps certain peopl in power and on the take?
When will "we" learn these lessons?
There are still racists, religious extremists and political extremists.
The KKK still exists.
There are still Nazis and a modern Nazi party, ask Putin.
Is Al Queda gone, no. ISIS, no. The Taliban, no.
How did appeasement work out for the Afghans?
Antisemitism still thrives everywhere.
You simply cannot defeat an ideology with guns and bombs or censorship.
The ideology will remain, the ability to do anything with it is what needs to be addressed.
It's genocide.
Then go home.
Lol, I'm glad you could see it.
I'm guessing that she grew up in the Hamptons with a silver spoon in her mouth. She should be dropped right into Gaza.
" Then go home."
and don't come back!
Can't, the modern equivalate of the SS has sealed the Gaza off, but you've known that for months.
The modern equivalent of the SS?
You know that to the left, anything that doesn't fit their idiotic narrative has a Nazi agenda behind it.
They should look in the mirror if the want to see Nazism, hate of Jewish people, think other races are inferior, control of the media and want 1 party rule. they are the blueprint for Nazism.
[deleted] [✘] The utter ridiculousness of your joke was the only thing funny about it.
Ah, the return of Wheel.
If it's genocide, it's caused by Hamas, not by Israel.
I don’t think Israel has gone far enough yet, what Israel’s goal should be is to make the idea of attacking them again so horrifying that when Hamas even thinks about it the people of Palestine kill them on the spot.
I did see that the Gazan civilians had staged a bit of a protest against Hamas, but it did not go far enough. If they truly were good people they would have carried out a real revolution. Therefore, IMO, the Gazan people generally support Hamas. Their UNRWA teachers have done a good job with them.
You got that right!
No. That's untrue and you know it. It's genocide. It's murdering, burning alive really, children, women, innocent people.
This is really pathetic. Just pathetic. Victim blaming written large.
ah, another cheerleader for genocide.
And now the Gazan clans are rising and challenging Hamas leadership. Is that victim blaming?
I'm sad to see that your comments indicate feelings about Israelis haven't changed since I first started reading your comments on Newsvine. I guess the story about a leopard not changing its spots is true.
And what is roasting live babies in front of their parents, raping young girls and then slicing off their breasts before shooting them, gouging out eyes and decapitating people, kidnapping them, parading them nude in the streets?
According to Col. Richard Kemp, The IDF does more to protect the lives of the civilians than any nation has done in history. It's not easy to neutralize the enemy when it hides its weapons and selves in and under hospitals, schools, mosques, UN facilities, refugee camps, among civilians and uses them as human shields. Aren't those war crimes? Even the Nazis and the Japanese didn't do that. Of course to save their wemen, children and elderly from being killed they surrendered. They were being humanitarian when compared to what Hamas has been doing. Stealing the aid and selling it to the impoverished civilians for inflated prices, rather than distributing it. But go ahead, support those really nice guys instead of those who are trying to end forever being attacked out of the blue by those who just want to kill Jews.
It is hard if not impossible to describe people that are trying to make Hamas and the Palestinians the victims in this conflict without using the word antisemite.
What disappoints me is that they're succeeding.
Your argument , such as it is, is that Israel has no choice but to keep killing civilians , including thousands of children. That argument is absurd, and is why Israel is losing friends and previous supporters.
I don't know HOW MANY TIMES I have had to repeat and explain what my "argument" is, and WHY it is what it is. It doesn't require a misdescription like you have posed. It's making me feel that the inability for others to apply just SOME critical thinking ability to the issue instead of bleeding heart emotion, just a little actual comprehension, or else maybe, unfortunately, Right Down the Center is right.
For ever basically, on NT you have called or implied that those who dont totally support Israel are anti-Semitic. Those days are over Buzz.
They have no choice but to keep on killing and degrading Hamas. If Hamas is hiding among the civilian population the civilian deaths are on Hamas, not Israel.
They would like to think so but the truth remains the truth.
I'm sad to see that you still have same blind spots and suffer from a fundamental desire NOT to understand. Nothing has changed except the genocide has accelerated to the point that even you can no longer deny it, but instead try to shift blame to the victims. I guess you spots are indelible eh?
Yet another apologist for genocide.
The deaths are on the ones killing them.
Israel was justified in the beginning, but now they need to just stop and talk about the future of Gaza and the Palestinians. Emphasis on talk.
Luckily hamas was stopped
The root cause is hamas. Anything else is victim blaming
The concept that 40 or 50 thousand civilian deaths are all Hamas fault is pathetic, and just intended to justify continuing the killing. At some point Israel has to accept responsibility, and the time is now.
Was it the allies responsibility so many German civilians does during world war 2, or the Nazi government that started the war?
Was it only a week ago the left was outraged over Trump's misuse of the word genocide? And yet here we are, again.
Maybe if Hamas had sent 200,000 troops into Israel as a full out invasion (as Germany did with the multiple countries it invaded with millions of troops) with the intention to conquer and take over Israel, you might have somewhat of a point.
And maybe if the American public was aware of the dire straits of the German civilians during the waning days of the war there would have been some vocalized concern about it by the American people.
In other words you are comparing apples to umbrellas.
Germany under Hitler had vast ambitions of territorial conquest and had killed many millions of people. That does not apply to Hamas.
What do you imagine Hamas' goal towards Israel is? Besides that, how many civilians in a foreign country does a government get to rape, torture and murder before you forfeit the right to rule in your mind? Just say sorry and it's all good so they can start the rearming process over?
if the American public was aware of the dire straits of the German civilians during the waning days of the war t
The blockade in WWI caused similar mass deprivations among German civilians too. Approximately a half million died from starvation. Did that make the Allies war criminals? Were they committing genocide?
That does not apply to Hamas.
You want to go with arguing Hamas doesn't want to wipe Israel off the map? Good luck with that.
Israel has 10 million people. How many does Hamas get to kill before they are held responsible? Just give them a few thousand here and there and hope for the best? The Sudetenland strategy?
Hamas has never had the capability to be an existential threat to Israel. They dont have the army or air force, and the US military guarantees Israel's existence.
The Hamas -Israel conflict is more anagolous to Native American warriors burning down white settlements and ranches and the the US Army going into a NA village and wiping the place out. The Indians had no ability to wipe the whites out.
Oh. Then they never can be. One thing we know is the world never changes.
Native American warriors burning down white settlements and ranches
So you believe it's the duty of a government to let weaker foes commit the most horrific of atrocities against its own citizens rather than defend itself.
Then Hamas should not have started a war with someone who has the ability to wipe them out. Mess with the bull long enough and you get the horns.
I'm not defending the conduct of Hamas, I'm saying the comparison to Nazi Germany is inapt.
In what way do you think it is wrong?
This is completely meaningless. You are simply trying to deflect from the fact of genocide and excuse it with false comparisons to Germany late in WWll.
There is no "genocide" in Gaza, if you respect the actual meaning of the word. Civilians in Gaza are being killed just like Germans were during WWII. It's a sad fact of what happens when you start wars.
Ah, simple denial of facts. How typical.
and denial of the fact of genocide remains denial.
Just because someone declares something is a fact does not make it an actual fact. If Hamas released all the hostages and gave its weapons I am sure Israel would stop the bombing. Sure does not sound like genocide.
Are you suggesting any Palestinians in Gaza would have been killed if Hamas didn't attack? Do you think Israel would continue the killing if Hamas gave up or were forced out by the Palestinians.
It is time for Hamas to take responsibility and to actually prove they give a shit about the people they rule and surrender.
Maybe some folks just want to be more like Trump.
Genocide by Israel is a fact. Your lying and excuse making doesn't change that.
Saying the same incorrect statement again and again does not make it anymore correct. See 4.2.36
And yet you persist.
Nope
Goebbels believed it to be so, or at least that it would make it true. The posts on this site seem to suggest a couple followers of that belief.
Yeah, you and the guy right above you here.
Welcome back my friend.
Isn't it incredible. Some got what they wanted and it's like a morgue.
Oh well, carry on. I'll be back tomorrow ... maybe.
we're counting the seconds
Response should be, Attack us and when it is done, we won't leave any of that group to attack us again.
That's what makes it genocide. Attack us and we will kill you and your children and your families and everyone you know and destroy your entire culture and we will play victims to all the world. .
If you don't want that to happen then you should not attack those who can totally destroy you.
So genocide is justified then?
Sometimes to keep weeds out of the garden where things are growing good, you have to pull weeds out by the roots.
Isn't that Hama's stated goal for Jews?
A perfect example of how well the psychological warfare THE DECLARED TERRORISTS Hamas has been using that they were taught by their supporters, the Iranians. in order to turn the world against Israel. That is to lie, as they did when a misfired Islamic Jihad rocket killed people outside the Gaza City Hospital, exaggerate the number killed but make sure the number of children and wemen are emphasised and exaggerated while NOT indicating how many militants were killed among them, make sure the civilians are used as human shields in order to make sure the numbers of them that are killed will be considered a "genocide" by weak-minded bleeding hearts around the world, and do not surrender because after all Hamas is very religious and they follow the command in the Q'oran to find and kill the Jews and their Imams tell them The Day of Judgment Will Not Come Until They Fight and Kill the Jews. .
Excuses for genocide don't change the facts at all.
So you're trying to fly another excuse for genocide?
They are the enemy; they lost and there are far more important things to worry about
Losing a war you start isn't genocide.
just finishing the job to ensure the threat is totally gone.
Slaughtering women and children, starving them and stealing their homes is genocide.
Another genocide apologist.
Why do you like them so much?
As opposed to a terrorist apologist.
So, the Palestinians are committing genocide.
Human beings are not weeds, but that is the kind of language used to justify genocide.
They are the enemy, They lost and are stll a danger. Other countries do not want them because they know they will cause problems.
Again why do you like them so much?
Viscous declared terrorists who raped innocent young girls, sliced off their breasts and shot them, roasted live babies in ovens in front of their parents, gouged out eyes, decapitated innocent civilians, kidnapped persons to be hostages and paraded them nude through the streets - calling them "weeds" is quite appropriate. I once had a client who called them animals, but that would be a compliment because animals don't commit such atrocities. .
They have shown how they treat human beings when they have the upper hand for a little bit,
They sure would like to
Jordan, 1970: Black September. Civil war with the PLO. Thousands killed
Lebanon, 1975 - 1990: Palestinian militias helped a 15 year civil war
Kuwait, 1991: Expelled 300,000 Palestinians after the PLO backed Saddam Hussain
Syria, 2011 - Present: Yarmouk camp became warzone, Palestinians fought both sides.
And somehow the palestinians are "victims".
Less of the enemy is better than more of the enemy
RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — At least 31 people were killed and over 150 were wounded on Sunday while on their way to receive food in the Gaza Strip , according to health officials and multiple witnesses. The witnesses said Israeli forces fired on crowds around a kilometer (1,000 yards) from an aid site run by an Israeli-backed foundation.
The army in a brief statement said it was “currently unaware of injuries caused by (Israeli military) fire within the humanitarian aid distribution site. The matter is still under review.”
The foundation — promoted by Israel and the United States — said in a statement it delivered aid “without incident” early Sunday. It has denied previous accounts of chaos and gunfire around its sites, which are in Israeli military zones where independent access is limited.
Gaza’s Health Ministry said 31 people were killed and 170 others were wounded.
“Aid distribution has become a death trap,” the head of the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees , Philippe Lazzarini, said in a statement.
WATCH: GHF proves IDF did not shoot at innocent Gazans at aid distribution sites
News channels such as CNN and BBC still have false reports of 31 killed Gazans by IDF fire as their headlines, despite GHF's video evidence.
By REUTERS , JERUSALEM POST STAFF JUNE 1, 2025 07:48 Updated: JUNE 1, 2025 18:55
LINK -> GHF video proves IDF didn't fire on Gazans at humanitarian aid site - Israel news - The Jerusalem Post
Oh, how EASY it is for Hamas to make the bleeding hearts bleed.
The idea that some people will believe anything a terrorist group says is just mindboggling.
Many people believe what they want to believe. IMO the real question is why do they want to believe a terrorist group.
You believe the people who have the same goals and ideas that you have.
So you are claiming that a 4:41 minute video- of a distribution site that may not even be the one in Rafah- is proof that the IDF didn't fire on civilians? Complete an utter bullshit. No wonder the US/Israel want GHF to handle food distribution- they are willing to foment Israeli lies.
Damn convenient for Israel isn't it? The only video that gets out is controlled by Israel.
Don't believe the journalists that saw the dead and wounded being brought in? The victims old men, women and children- yup, they sound like Hamas all right. Ignore all of testimony from witnesses- must all be Hamas agents.
The IDF controls Gaza completely. Hamas is now the organization that never dies. Funny how an entity with no standing army, tanks or artillery, air force, missiles, or navy can hold out for so long against one of the most powerful militaries on the planet. No matter how many Israel kills there will always be more; even if they have to create them out of thin air.
Where is all of the tunnel fighting the IDF was so damn worried out? Not hearing shit about it. Guess Israel is too busy turning Gaza and the West Bank into unlivable shit holes for the Palestinians to care to find them; or rescue their remaining hostages.
Guess the Palestinians all shot themselves and the rest that ran away grabbed all of the weapons and hid them to hide the evidence. The GHF and IDF claim to have heard/seen nothing. Protecting Palestinian civilians isn't high on their priority list it seems.
The war in Gaza and the West Bank will be over when Bibi accomplishes his goal of no more Palestinians in the region. He doesn't care if they are forced out or killed off; he just wants them gone.
Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthi, PA, Iran, and Israel all share one thing in common. None of them gives a shit about the Palestinians; or have their best interests at heart. If there were any justice the leaders for each would be in the Hague now awaiting judgement.
Given the choice of whether to believe Israel or the DECLARED TERRORIST ORGANIZATION THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN EXPOSED FOR LYING (The Gaza City hospital parking lot bombing) I prefer to believe Israel. I really don't give a shit which side you're on.
You mean the Occupation force, right?
You seem very confused as to who the bad guys are. Why be a terrorist apologist?
You seem very confused as to basic facts. Why be an apologist for genocide?
Please stop posting Hamas disinformation. Last week it was thousands of babies will die from malnutrition in 48 hours, now its invented shootings.
How many times does this have to happen?
Cindy McCain says her people on the ground there said it happened.
If she and AP retract their stories I'll consider deleting the post.
Drone footage shows gunmen in Gaza shooting at civilians going to collect aid. Hamas is doing everything in its power to prevent the successful distribution of food in Gaza.
There is video footage of Hamas gunmen shooting Palestinians at a different location near Khan Younis -
There is video of the distribution site showing no shooting there -
There were some casualties that showed up at Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis - IDF denies any shooting incident near the distribution site.
GHF, the group of American contractors responsible for the site, denies any shooting incident took place near the distribution site.
Another embarrassment for the pro-Hamas leftwing media. But I'm sure they'll count the people killed by Hamas as victims of the "genocide." Of that, there can be no doubt.
Guess you think the International Red Cross is lying as well?
Shrapnel wounds? Doesn't fit the Israel/GHF narrative of masked assailants firing near the distribution site. Also, no way in hell the IDF/GHF would have missed it. The IDF is responsible for the safety of Palestinian civilians as the occupying power. If "masked assailants" are attacking civilians then it is the IDF's responsibility to stop them. Like they have ever missed a chance to take out Hamas before.
Embarrassing that pro Israel lap dogs believing everything they put forward; and denying documentation that proves otherwise.
There is no "good side" in the War in Gaza or the West Bank. It sickens me that the US supports the Israeli government unconditionally; and give aid (even if it is a pittance) to the PA.
Thankfully we don't support Hamas in any way shape or form.
You just made me agree with John. The world may be coming to end.
Of course it does. Do you imagine every person, every where is under video surveillance at all times?
Is Hamas ever responsible for anything they do?
arrassing that pro Israel lap dogs believing everything they put forward
Do you not see the irony in that statement?
denying documentation that proves otherwise.
There is zero documentation proving that the IDF carried out the attacks. Now we are at the stage where the Hamas propagandists claim it's a lie because the IDF can't show conclusive evidence that every single person who was hurt was in fact hurt by Hamas with a signed affidavit from the Hamas member affirming he's a member of Hamas and caused that particular casualty. .
Every time...
Gaza is 25 miles long and 3 to 7 miles wide and is home to 3.1 MILLION people. And not ONE PERSON IN GAZA helped find the hostages.
They are not victims. They are complicit in acts of terrorism.
Not only did they dance in the streets to celebrate and share candy on Oct 7, but that's what they did on 9/11. What kind of American prefers them over Israelis (not counting Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib)?
And now they want to cry victim.
This statement is literal bullshit. But hey, any way to excuse genocide is a good way huh?
Feel free to prove me wrong.
Losing a war you start isn't genocide.
Bombing unarmed and starving men, women, and children is genocide. Try to keep up.
Bombing AFTER warning the people first with emails, phone calls and dropped leaflets to vacate where they intend to bomb is NOT genocide.
Oh bullshit Buzz!! At least be honest and if you can't manage that at least be human.! Where the fuck they gonna go? It's genocide Buzz. It's deliberate, it's been planned for a long time and you are making excuses for literal crimes against humanity and war crimes. That is what you are doing Buzz.
Bullshit? Have you ever been to Israel? I have, and I've witnessed some of the murderous things the Palestinians have done, and they don't give a shit about how many women and children THEY kill. I'm going to post a couple of replies I've made on a different seed, because maybe they need to be seen by more.
I have to admit I'm not so great at math but that 70% figure does make me think it's one hell of an exaggeration, so instead of just accepting it I did a bit of research, and found this. I have quoted some selected paragraphs from the study.
LINK -> Hamas fatality figures for Gaza war are 'clear disinformation,' according to new study | The Times of Israel
You might recall the "infamous Al-Ahli Hospital incident in October 2023 which was when a missile MISFIRED by Islamic Jihad struck the parking lot beside the Gaza City hospital and killed about 500 Gazans who were there. On the reports given by the Gazan press they STILL speak of that tragedy being because of an Israeli bomb, when it has even been ADMITTED that it was not. I would rather trust what has been reported in the study above tnan believe reports by PROVEN lying Hamas who use women and children as human shields, which even a kid would know is using such misinformation to mislead the general public and build up sympathy for their cause and hatred for the Israelis for the bleeding hearts of the world to believe, and as I see from what's been written, they do it very successfully.
Obviously it means nothing to you that Hamas hides its militants, weapons and contol centres in and under hospitals, schools, mosques, UNRWA facilities and refugee camps, using the civillians as human shields. Now why is it that Israel has NO CHOICE but to totally eradicate Hamas, even though you blame Israel for the collateral dsmage that is caused by Hamas? Do you also blame America for HIroshima and Nagasaki?
Here is why Israel has no choice but to continue this war until the last Hamas mlitant is standing.
Bombing enemy combatant locations isn't. Do you also not know that the IDF notifies the population to evacuate the area? My money is that you do know, as it is public knowledge.
You really should
And do you know that is bullshit? They have nowhere to go. You can make all the excuses for genocide that you like, but in the end, you're still supporting genocide.
That's a matter of opinion.
Once again, losing a war you started isn't genocide. It's stupidity.
The morality of IDF maneuvers in Gaza
Article published by Jewish News Syndicate , 5 January 2024.
© Richard Kemp
Other than hardened anti-Israel zealots and supporters of Hamas, few have questioned the need for Israel to take military action to defend its citizens after the depredations of October 7. But the Israel Defense Forces have come under intense criticism about the way it is conducting the war in the Gaza Strip, with allegations of excessive force and even indiscriminate attacks. Some former Western military officers have joined the chorus of condemnation, suggesting the IDF should adopt the tactics of coalition forces in places like Afghanistan and Iraq. Given the outcomes of both campaigns, perhaps neither provides the ideal template for how jihadists can be defeated.
Amid this growing reproof from afar, I have not yet heard one single realistic proposal for an alternative way of operating that would reduce civilian harm while still achieving the necessary objectives. That tells me that the IDF has no choice but to prosecute this conflict along current lines, despite the terrible loss of civilian life. But given the ill-informed accusations and wide-ranging misunderstanding of how the IDF is actually operating in Gaza, it is worth a closer look at what the IDF has been doing to mitigate harm to civilians.
I have been in Israel since the start of this war in the immediate aftermath of the slaughter, rape, torture and kidnapping spree three months ago. During that time, I have been extensively briefed on the conduct of operations by IDF commanders and staff and visited a wide range of IDF air and ground combat units, including inside the Gaza Strip, on a number of occasions, when I have been able to observe military operations firsthand.
During Operation Swords of Iron, the IDF has faced and continues to face one of the most difficult and complex combat environments any armed forces have ever had to deal with. Hamas and its fellow Gaza terrorists has, over several years, been preparing the territory with weapons and ammo caches, booby traps, mines, kill zones, and ambush and sniper positions.
They have an armory that includes sophisticated ground combat systems including thermobaric anti-armor missiles, explosively formed penetrator IEDs, long-range sniper rifles, explosive suicide vests, remote detonation equipment, attack drones, surveillance drones and ground-mounted surveillance cameras. In addition, they have positioned a vast array of mobile rocket launchers that continue to attack Israel’s civilian population, with missile barrages ongoing since the start of the war.
Hamas fighters and their infrastructure are comprehensively embedded in all populated areas of the Gaza Strip, and frequently relocate both above and below ground according to the movements of the IDF and the civilian population. The terrorists have utilized the predominantly urban areas to afford maximum cover and facilitate concealed approach and escape routes.
Hamas has constructed an extensive network of underground tunnels to gain protection for terrorists, to move fighters and equipment, to store weapons, to house command and control facilities, as well as to launch attacks and carry out ambushes. Some of these tunnels have been fitted with heavy blast doors to afford greater protection and frustrate assaulting troops. They are booby-trapped and rigged with explosives, early-warning devices and surveillance cameras. I have been into the tunnels during this conflict and can confirm that this network adds exponentially to the already immense challenges of fighting in urban areas, recognized by military professionals as perhaps the most demanding of all battle environments. Indeed, I am not aware of any comparable purposely built underground complex that any armed forces have had to tackle in any other conflict.
Hamas’s tactics are based on the exploitation of the civilian population of Gaza. Their above-ground infrastructure utilizes protected locations, including a large number of schools, hospitals and mosques for weapons storage, fighting positions, and tunnel access and egress. They have similarly used office and commercial facilities, shops and residential buildings. I have been briefed by combat troops on the ground that in some areas as much as every house and in other areas every other house contains elements of terrorist infrastructure; and I have been shown, for example, children’s bedrooms used to store grenades, anti-tank missiles and other munitions.
It is a standard Hamas tactic for terrorists to move unarmed, in civilian clothing, among the civilian population, collecting weapons stashed in civilian buildings and then carry out attacks against IDF troops. Hamas often compels civilians to remain in positions that the IDF is likely to attack, seeking to either deter an assault or exploit civilian deaths for international propaganda purposes if an attack is carried out. There are examples of Hamas killing civilians who fail to obey.
In addition to all this, Hamas is holding a large number of hostages in the Gaza Strip, which adds significant complications as the IDF seeks to find and rescue them and to avoid inadvertently killing them. Hamas has used the presence of their captives, including simulated and recorded hostage voices and related markings, to lure IDF soldiers into ambushes. Along with the tunnels, this adds yet another unique dimension to this conflict.
This daunting combination of concurrent and conflicting challenges, coupled with the fact that Hamas systematically uses Gazans as human shields, and operates within and beneath civilian infrastructure, means that it is literally not possible to achieve the objectives of defeating Hamas and rescuing the hostages without the tragic consequence of civilian casualties and the regrettable destruction of civilian property from both ground and air. No army in the world would be able to do so, no matter what tactics they employed, and indeed no other army has ever done so in any comparable conflict.
Furthermore, Hamas’s form of operations—most of which directly and intentionally contravene the laws of armed conflict—also explain the necessity for the IDF to act with immense combat power when required and to operate with force across all areas of Gaza. No place in the Strip is devoid of terrorists and their munitions unless and until the IDF has cleared and secured them.
I have been briefed on IDF techniques and training for mitigating harm to civilians by commanders, staff officers and lawyers. I have also spoken to a large number of air and ground combat troops, and all have shown a clear understanding of the IDF rules of engagement and the laws of armed conflict, as well as the personal and unit dedication to adhere to them. For example, I was present recently at a conference of operational commanders inside the Gaza Strip at which they discussed in great detail measures to avoid harm to civilians while attacking enemy positions in the close vicinity of a school that was being used for refuge by civilians. It was clear to me that the determination to protect civilian life was at the forefront of these commanders’ minds, in their planning and in their direction of tactical operations.
Measures that the IDF routinely take include selection of munitions to achieve the necessary effect on enemy targets while reducing the prospects of civilian casualties, especially in air operations where such calibration is more practicable; calculating proportionality; discriminating between combatants and non-combatants; and warning and enabling civilians to leave areas that are to be targeted.
The latter includes, at the time of writing, airdropping 6 million leaflets warning civilians to leave specified areas and indicating places of greater safety. In addition, the IDF has made 14 million pre-recorded phone calls and 72,000 personal calls warning civilians to leave targeted areas. The IDF then extensively monitors target areas from the air and ground to confirm the departure of civilians where possible before striking.
With these and other measures, the IDF has done all they are able to warn civilians of impending attacks. Temporary evacuation of civilians from areas of intense fighting into places of relative safety is the best way to keep civilians as far as possible out of harm’s way when fighting an enemy that has no regard for its own population, and, in fact, actively seeks to cause their deaths in order to bring pressure on Israel to cease its defensive operations inside Gaza. This latter factor may not be unique to this conflict, but for Hamas, it is a top operational priority, which makes it far more challenging for the IDF to minimize the number of civilian casualties. The IDF recognizes this and consequently makes efforts beyond those of any other army. In fact, taken together, the techniques I have described and the IDF’s other civilian harm mitigation measures represent by far the largest scale and most sophisticated efforts ever made to avoid civilian casualties in battle.
The IDF is also working hard to alleviate civilian suffering by facilitating the delivery of humanitarian aid. That includes daily pauses in fighting and the opening of humanitarian corridors and humanitarian relief zones. The IDF enables the supply of hundreds of tons of aid each day, and current constraints on aid delivery are due not to IDF-imposed restrictions but to the capacity of UN aid organizations. The IDF is striving to make the flow of aid more effective than it has been so far, including potentially opening an additional crossing point into Gaza. These efforts show Israel’s commitment to humanitarian assistance, despite its often negative impact on military operations. The fact is that unilateral humanitarian pauses and creation of corridors provide a military advantage to Hamas; additionally, there is no doubt that some of the aid delivered into Gaza is appropriated by terrorists.
Information and intelligence shortcomings, operational mistakes, human error, miscalculations and technical malfunctions occur in all wars, and sometimes tragically lead to loss of civilian life and indeed to fratricide (‘friendly fire’ or ‘blue on blue’). I have witnessed and been involved in several such events in other conflicts. Inevitably, dreadful incidents of this nature have occurred in this war, too. When errors or unlawful activity are suspected, the IDF uses its Fact-Finding Assessment Mechanism (which I have observed in action) to learn lessons, prevent repetition, and, if appropriate, refer cases to the Military Advocate General for further investigation.
Based on my own military experience in similar types of conflict and on my direct observations throughout the first three months of this war, in my opinion, the IDF has taken all reasonable measures to achieve its mission while minimizing harm to the civilian population and maximizing humanitarian relief. Nor are Israel’s military objectives optional or negotiable. To eliminate the potential for a recurrence of another October 7-like massacre, which Hamas’s leaders have repeatedly threatened, Hamas’s fighting capabilities must be destroyed; its ability to continue firing lethal rockets into the Israeli population must be denied; and every possible effort must be made to rescue the hostages.
Who is Colonel Richard Kemp?
LINK -> About Richard Kemp | Colonel Richard Kemp
[deleted] [✘] You can make all the excuses you like and spread all the IOF propaganda that you like. But it's still genocide Buzz. And you know it even if you would literally rather die that admit it.
I think I'll accept Colonel Richard Kemp's opinion about the IDF rather than yours. Somehow I think he's A HELL OF A LOT MORE QUALIFIED to make a judgment of the situation.
Bullshit Buzz.It's genocide. It's genocide. It's genocide. and you are supporting it. And of course an IOF officer is going to spread the official lie.
This is unassailable:
Moreover, the Israeli Defense Forces practice state-of-the-art civilian risk mitigation measures, in full keeping with the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War . If you are trying to commit “genocide,” you do not follow the Geneva Conventions. You just don’t.
If you are trying to commit “genocide,” you do not provide civilians early warning that you are about to strike legitimate military targets in their midst.
If you are trying to commit “genocide,” you do not distribute robust food aid to the alleged targets of your genocide.
If you are trying to commit “genocide,” you do not provide humanitarian medical assistance to the alleged targets of your genocide.
If you are trying to commit “genocide,” you do not evacuate sick and wounded children of the alleged targets of your genocide to hospitals.
If you are trying to commit “genocide,” you do not communicate that all armed conflict will end the moment Hamas lays down its guns and stops indiscriminately shooting rockets at Israeli civilians.
No, if you are trying to commit genocide, you do not fight a just war in keeping with the Geneva Conventions. Instead, you line everybody up against the wall and shoot them in the back of the head . That is genocide, and the war the Israelis are waging in Gaza looks nothing like that.
Alleging that Israel is engaged in “genocide” is the blood libel of the modern era, on par with the claim that Jews season their matzos with the blood of Christian babies.
Bullshit. They have no place to go and they are being starved and shot. It's genocide. Make the all excuses you like. Doesn't change the fact.
II somebody could save the Palestinians, what would they do with them? and how would they support them?
Although I don't know why anybody would want to waste the time, money and effort
By returning their land and property. That would be good place to start.
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