Sorry about the wrong image. Anyway, back in 1948, when Israel declared itself a state, not all the Arabs or other Muslims left. Those that did weren't chased out. The left because they thought the five Muslim countries that were about to attack Israel and would wipe them out. Then they could return and have it all. Didn't happen like they thought it would.
Those Arabs and others who stayed became citizens of Israel and they live much better lives than the majority of Muslims in other countries, let alone Palestine. All those who lost everything lost it because they left, thinking the Muslim world would kill the Jews. They have no right of return, in my view.
I would like to clarify something in your comment.
Anyway, back in 1948, when Israel declared itself a state....
This has been something that people (not you) have twisted over the years. Israel had permission to declare itself a country first by the UN:
On November 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted a Resolution for the establishment of an independent Jewish State in Palestine, and called upon the inhabitants of the country to take such steps as may be necessary on their part to put the plan into effect.
This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their Independent State may not be revoked. It is, moreover, the self-evident right of the Jewish people to be a nation, as all other nations, in its own Sovereign State.
ACCORDINGLY, WE, the members of the National Council, representing the Jewish people in Palestine and the Zionist movement of the world, met together in solemn assembly today, the day of the termination of the British mandate for Palestine, by virtue of the natural and historic right of the Jewish and of the Resolution of the General Assembly of the United Nations,
HEREBY PROCLAIM the establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine, to be called ISRAEL.
WE HEREBY DECLARE that as from the termination of the Mandate at midnight, this night of the 14th and 15th May, 1948, and until the setting up of the duly elected bodies of the State in accordance with a Constitution, to be drawn up by a Constituent Assembly not later than the first day of October, 1948, the present National Council shall act as the provisional administration, shall constitute the Provisional Government of the State of Israel.
THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open to the immigration of Jews from all countries of their dispersion; will promote the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; will be based on the precepts of liberty, justice and peace taught by the Hebrew Prophets; will uphold the full social and political equality of all its citizens, without distinction of race, creed or sex; will guarantee full freedom of conscience, worship, education and culture; will safeguard the sanctity and inviolability of the shrines and Holy Places of all religions; and will dedicate itself to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be ready to cooperate with the organs and representatives of the United Nations in the implementation of the Resolution of the Assembly of November 29, 1947, and will take steps to bring about the Economic Union over the whole of Palestine.
We appeal to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building of its State and to admit Israel into the family of nations.
In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to return to the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, with full and equal citizenship and due representation in its bodies and institutions -- provisional or permanent.
We offer peace and unity to all the neighboring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all.
Our call goes out the Jewish people all over the world to rally to our side in the task of immigration and development and to stand by us in the great struggle for the fulfillment of the dream of generations -- the redemption of Israel.
With trust in Almighty God, we set our hand to this Declaration, at this Session of the Provisional State Council, in the city of Tel Aviv, on this Sabbath eve, the fifth of Iyar, 5708, the fourteenth day of May, 1948.
On that very same day, is when Ben Gurion declared Israel a country and not before and not by himself.
Well, that's true, as far as it goes, as I understand it. That is, everything said in the proclamation is true an factual, but what I had in mind, because I'd recently read about it, was that Britian didn't exactly do what it was supposed to do concerning the mandate.
As I understand it, the Israelis ended up getting rather forceful about it with the British because they weren't doing what they promised or what the mandate called for. In fact, it seems to me the British went out of their way to give Israel the dirty end of the stick. Had they not been forceful, this proclamation may have occurred at a much later date, if at all. In short, I had in mind that Israel might not have come to be if Israel hadn't taken matters into their own hands. That is, while the mandate established the State of Israel, it wasn't handed to them on a silver platter. They bled for it, not just then, but throughout history. In that sense, they declared themselves a State, because no one else seemed to be making it happen and the British, who I think had their thoughts on oil and therefor seemed to favor the Arabs, didn't appear to be making it happen.
Of course, this is all from a lot of hasty reading and I might be getting it wrong. I'd like your opinion.
Strike the oil motive. Apparently it was simply the British making whatever promises necessary to achieve their WWI goals. The oil was a guess on my part. Seems like it's always about the oil.
I think they feel like they are defending their home, much like Indians do here in America. That being said, it still might make for some internal conflict, which is totally understandable.
I don't believe that Americans understand that the IDF isn't all Jews. As the video points out Arabs (Palestinians) and Bedouins have served in the IDF for decades. In fact, the Jew built a monument to the Bedouin soldiers on a hilltop in Galilee and it's called the ''garden of broken hearts''. In addition to these two groups the Druze who are not Muslim but are a separate religion with its own origins and the Circassian who are Christian, both are citizens of Israel and serve in the IDF.
Thanks, Perrie as you know I love history/anthropology etc and the ME the Balkans, and the Med/North Africa are of special interest to me. The complexities/religion/races/history and the people can keep one learning for years.
In fact, the Jew built a monument to the Bedouin soldiers on a hilltop in Galilee and it's called the ''garden of broken hearts''.
Which makes what is being done to them, and others, by the hard right over there all the more awful. I think that, more than the alleged corruption, is what will bring Netanyahu down, or should. Doing that to your own citizens is about as disgraceful as it gets.
Doing that to your own citizens is about as disgraceful as it gets.
There are a bit over 200,000 Bedouins that live in Israel but the ones around 40,000 live in the West Bank and these are the ones that are being attacked by the right-wing Israelis. I'm sure that the Bedouins that live in Israel don't see it as two separate groups. The Bedouins have historically had strong ties that stretch throughout their people.
The Bedouins and Arabs (Palestinians) that live in the West Bank are there legally and what Israel is doing to them is illegal, but that does seem to matter.
The Bedouins and Arabs (Palestinians) that live in the West Bank are there legally and what Israel is doing to them is illegal, but that does seem to matter.
Oh, I misread the other article, I guess. I thought the Bedouins in Israel were suffering this. My bad.
Yeah, and I think, I hope, that most Israelis find it a stain on their honor. I'm afraid, though, that maybe they won't care as much because of all this. I don't know. I can only hope Netanyahu's days are numbered and his successor does something about it.
Sorry about the wrong image. Anyway, back in 1948, when Israel declared itself a state, not all the Arabs or other Muslims left. Those that did weren't chased out. The left because they thought the five Muslim countries that were about to attack Israel and would wipe them out. Then they could return and have it all. Didn't happen like they thought it would.
Those Arabs and others who stayed became citizens of Israel and they live much better lives than the majority of Muslims in other countries, let alone Palestine. All those who lost everything lost it because they left, thinking the Muslim world would kill the Jews. They have no right of return, in my view.
Hi Drakk,
I would like to clarify something in your comment.
This has been something that people (not you) have twisted over the years. Israel had permission to declare itself a country first by the UN:
On that very same day, is when Ben Gurion declared Israel a country and not before and not by himself.
Well, that's true, as far as it goes, as I understand it. That is, everything said in the proclamation is true an factual, but what I had in mind, because I'd recently read about it, was that Britian didn't exactly do what it was supposed to do concerning the mandate.
As I understand it, the Israelis ended up getting rather forceful about it with the British because they weren't doing what they promised or what the mandate called for. In fact, it seems to me the British went out of their way to give Israel the dirty end of the stick. Had they not been forceful, this proclamation may have occurred at a much later date, if at all. In short, I had in mind that Israel might not have come to be if Israel hadn't taken matters into their own hands. That is, while the mandate established the State of Israel, it wasn't handed to them on a silver platter. They bled for it, not just then, but throughout history. In that sense, they declared themselves a State, because no one else seemed to be making it happen and the British, who I think had their thoughts on oil and therefor seemed to favor the Arabs, didn't appear to be making it happen.
Of course, this is all from a lot of hasty reading and I might be getting it wrong. I'd like your opinion.
Strike the oil motive. Apparently it was simply the British making whatever promises necessary to achieve their WWI goals. The oil was a guess on my part. Seems like it's always about the oil.
I wonder if these soldiers feel conflicted sometimes. Doesn't seem like they are from the vid.
I think they feel like they are defending their home, much like Indians do here in America. That being said, it still might make for some internal conflict, which is totally understandable.
Interesting video, Drakk.
I don't believe that Americans understand that the IDF isn't all Jews. As the video points out Arabs (Palestinians) and Bedouins have served in the IDF for decades. In fact, the Jew built a monument to the Bedouin soldiers on a hilltop in Galilee and it's called the ''garden of broken hearts''. In addition to these two groups the Druze who are not Muslim but are a separate religion with its own origins and the Circassian who are Christian, both are citizens of Israel and serve in the IDF.
Your knowledge on Israel and its people is very impressive.
Thanks, Perrie as you know I love history/anthropology etc and the ME the Balkans, and the Med/North Africa are of special interest to me. The complexities/religion/races/history and the people can keep one learning for years.
Which makes what is being done to them, and others, by the hard right over there all the more awful. I think that, more than the alleged corruption, is what will bring Netanyahu down, or should. Doing that to your own citizens is about as disgraceful as it gets.
There are a bit over 200,000 Bedouins that live in Israel but the ones around 40,000 live in the West Bank and these are the ones that are being attacked by the right-wing Israelis. I'm sure that the Bedouins that live in Israel don't see it as two separate groups. The Bedouins have historically had strong ties that stretch throughout their people.
The Bedouins and Arabs (Palestinians) that live in the West Bank are there legally and what Israel is doing to them is illegal, but that does seem to matter.
Oh, I misread the other article, I guess. I thought the Bedouins in Israel were suffering this. My bad.
Yeah, and I think, I hope, that most Israelis find it a stain on their honor. I'm afraid, though, that maybe they won't care as much because of all this. I don't know. I can only hope Netanyahu's days are numbered and his successor does something about it.
I agree 100%...