Veterans turn away from 'disrespectful' Donald Trump
By: Josie Ensor, New York
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
For Wayne Collins, the "last straw" came last week when, in his view, Donald Trump appeared to use a wreath-laying ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery as a political point-scoring stunt.
During the event, held to honour the troops killed during the American withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021, Trump's team recorded campaign footage among graves in a restricted area, to the outrage of many veterans.
"I don't think he was respectful and that's because fundamentally I don't think he has respect for the military," said Collins, who served as a third-class petty officer in the United States navy. "He doesn't value the lives of people he would be sending to the front, and that should in itself be disqualifying."
Collins, 63, from a town in Missouri he describes as "85 per cent conservative", cast his first political ballot for the Republican president Ronald Reagan, but will be voting Democrat in November.
America's 17 million-strong veteran community is traditionally more likely to vote for Republican candidates but polls suggest their enthusiasm for Trump is waning.
The former president won a 61 per cent share of this vote in 2016 but only 54 per cent in 2020. In a Change Research survey released this week, support for Trump among veterans was down to statistical coin toss at 51 per cent.
The military vote is of outsized importance in the five key swing states. There are nearly 800,000 veterans in Pennsylvania, more than 550,000 in Michigan and 283,000 in Wisconsin. Arizona has more than 450,000 and Nevada more than 200,000.
Trump has always been popular among veterans and their families but there has been a "shift"STEPHANIE KEITH/GETTY IMAGES
"There's no question in my mind there's been a shift," said Fred Wellman, a US army combat veteran with VoteVets, a veterans' advocacy group and political action committee.
"The Arlington debacle was different," Wellman said. "Even my non card-carrying vet friends who water-ski on weekends rather than pay attention to politics were deeply offended. Arlington is sacred."
In the days after the incident, Larry Ellis, a retired four-star general who served under George W Bush's administration, came out for the vice-president Kamala Harris.
It was the first time Ellis, who served as the commander of the US Army Forces Command, has endorsed a presidential candidate, writing that "this is not a decision I take lightly, but one I believe necessary".
Kamala Harris has the endorsement of Larry Ellis, who served as commander of the US Army Forces CommandBRENDAN MCDERMID/REUTERS
Jimmy McCain, the son of the late Republican senator John McCain and a first lieutenant in the Arizona National Guard, called the cemetery stunt "extremely triggering" and announced he had decided to join the Democratic Party.
The 78-year-old Republican nominee has a track record that includes calling service members "suckers and losers" and saying McCain, who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam, was "not a war hero" because he was captured. Trump himself received five deferments from the military during the Vietnam War, including one for "bone spurs" in his feet.
In August he said he would rather be awarded the presidential Medal of Freedom than the congressional Medal of Honor because recipients of that award are often badly injured or dead.
When Change Research pollsters asked people who voted for Trump at least once, but do not plan to in November, to explain their choice, 53 per cent said his comments, attitudes and policies towards veterans and service members were part of their decision.
"He certainly doesn't have the temperament to be commander-in-chief," said Collins, who posts on X under the alias Proud Navy Veteran. "At this point he has shown a consistent pattern of disrespect."
David Parke, a former Army Ranger sniper, disagreed, saying Trump should be judged on his actions, not his words.
"Why am I not more offended by Trump's Arlington stunt and his comments about the Medal of Honor?" he asked. "It's because I appreciate that he did more for vets than Biden and Kamala. The stupid stuff he says is temporary, the actual steps he took were important and lasting," he added, pointing to the former president's executive order boosting mental health resources for veterans transitioning from active duty.
Trump and Harris have sparred over who would stand up better for America's armed forces. Both have assembled surrogates with military experience to vouch for them. Trump named his running mate as JD Vance, a senator for Ohio and former marine who served in Iraq. Harris appointed Tim Walz, the Minnesota governor who spent 24 years in the National Guard.
Harris has leant on the Biden administration's record on helping pass the landmark Pact Act, described as the largest expansion of veteran benefits since Vietnam. The law resulted in more than a million new benefits claims approved and more than 300,000 new enrolments in its healthcare programme, according to the department of veteran affairs.
"I have had friends say to me: the Dems hate us, but I really like my VA (veteran affairs) service," said Wellman, who voted Republican until Trump ran in 2016. "I say 'well who do you think made that happen?' It's about getting through to those people. It's a game of margins and if you can pull 3 or 4 per cent away from Trump it could be over."
Wellman said it was "not enough that Republicans wave the flag if they don't back it up with policy". "It's hard to forget the visual of Republican senators killing the Pact Act the first time we tried to pass it, and then fist-bumping and high-fiving in the vestibule when it failed," he said.
Veterans and military families are often concerned about "kitchen table" issues such as healthcare, education and the economy but they are also more concerned with, and directly affected by, national security and foreign policy matters than average voters.
Trump has urged Republicans to block Ukraine funding, suggested Ukraine should cede territory to Russia and threatened to "encourage" Moscow to attack US allies in Nato that do not pay their share.
More recently, he suggested that the Biden-Harris administration's chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan led to the conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza. "The humiliation in Afghanistan set off the collapse of American credibility and respect all around the world," Trump said. "It gave us Russia going into Ukraine. It gave us the October 7 attack on Israel, because it gave us lack of respect."
Harris has warned that Trump would undo the foreign policy progress of the Biden administration and embolden America's enemies. "I will not cosy up to tyrants and dictators like Kim Jong-un who are rooting for Trump," the 59-year-old former attorney-general said at a recent rally. "They know he is easy to manipulate with flattery and favours."
Collins sees a lot more at stake this time around, both at home and abroad. He fears a second Trump term would be a slide towards autocracy. "He's made it clear there is nothing he wouldn't do to retain power, from saying he will cancel future elections to firing 'woke' generals," he said. "If he gets to the White House this vote could be our last."
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One of the stranger mysteries of Trump support is how any veteran could possibly support Trump. The guy obviously looks at soldiers as resources and had no concept of altruism or valor.
I did talk with an old retired career military acquaintance months ago. I asked him why anyone from the military supports Trump (this was when Biden was the nominee). His answer is that military people respect strength and they see Trump as strong and Biden as weak.
I then asked him if military people consider the disregard of veterans shown by Trump in cases such as referring to KIA vets as fools and suckers. He said that he does not believe Trump said that.
At that point I moved to another topic.
John Kelly, who was a marine general, has specifically verified that Trump did say all the things he is accused of saying about the military. There are people who will believe the biggest pathological liar of our times over the word of a four star general.
That is some kind of cult he has going there.
And one can see that even in our small forum. How many claimed vets here are voting for Trump? And for those few who claim they will not vote for Trump, do we ever see condemnation of Trump for his abysmal views of the military?
At some point, it begins to say more about the person doing the supporting of the candidate. What do I mean? Well, when facts are presented repeatedly—nakedly and dressed down, individuals who rely on 'beliefs" (you should appreciate the irony here) signify that they want to believe in their candidate. Oftentimes, they will give him/her candidate a pass or repeated passes. (Benefit of doubts.)
We, all, kind of do it for the candidate we choose to support. We hear something 'foul' rumored about them that turns out to be true and we 'weight' that foulness against the 'holistic' understanding we have about our candidate. We do so, because we really want our 'guy' or 'gal' to stay in our camp.
Clearly, there are veterans whom really want Donald to be their president. Thus, they are willing to look pass his slights, derogatory insults to their branches of service, and accept that somehow Donald's lies are his 'strength.'
Thing is, this gentleman is a very honorable man. A guy who served in combat and has devoted his life to military service for his nation. A patriot by any measure. And he is no dummy either, he knew the facts.
I agree wholeheartedly. These people are not dumb. So. . . what is the 'issue' with them?
Ultimately, it is said we, any of us, wish for a president/leader we would like to think we could sit down and drink a beer with and enjoy his/her 'company.'
This gentleman, and persons of his opinion, is indicative of someone who would love to sit/drink with Donald. Conversely, I would be someone who comes across as enjoying a beer with Kamala. To be clear(er), I am not against Donald just because he is running as a conservative. . .I stand against Donald's depraved intent and 'bent' for our government, its citizenry and culture as a whole.
At least Trump showed up to Arlington. Have not seen anything about Harris or Waltz putting in appearances.
It was a stunt, a photo-op, a campaign stop. Harris and Walz WEREN'T INVITED. There was no ceremony otherwise so why would they be 'putting in appearances'?
Of course it was a staged campaign stunt and now right on cue the Trump apologists will be showing up twisting themselves into mini pretzels to excuse what has actually turned out to be a federal crime. Trump was playing a gotcha game with Harris while abusing our dead heroes and Arlington cemetery as his props. It blew up in his face so MAGA stooges try to mansplain it away...
Sorry, I should have specified that I was referring to the wreath laying ceremony, to which Kamala Harris was more than welcome to attend in her capacity as VP. Looks like, for whatever reason, she just chose not to.
So why wasn't the former 'president' convicted felon and rapist there for the first and second laying of the wreath ceremony?
I was thinking the same thing. Wonder what else that wreath-laying would be called if not a ceremony?
Yup, the former 'president' also pissed all over the veterans with that stunt. And the defense of the indefensible continues.............
I know. Weird huh?
I don't have any idea, as that decision was made from on high way above my pay grade. You'd have to ask the people at Arlington that. But as I said, there was no reason that Harris would not have been allowed to attend. If she had, it would have been her laying the wreath not Trump.
So you do not know why Harris was not there but continue (referring to your collective comments here) imply that she did something wrong.
In the meantime, Trump most definitely engaged in disrespect with the pushing / ignoring of the ANC employee and his grinning thumbs up picture. That is something we actually know. That is bad, right? But you do not comment on that and instead offer that at least he showed up.
Why do people, even those who will not vote for Trump like you, continue to defend this guy? Especially vets! Trump has no respect for our military. He views them as resources and has no concept of altruism or valor.
Why does Trump get defense (e.g. at least he showed up) rather than a rebuke for the disrespect he showed and continues to show?
The answer is because he wasn't campaigning for 'president' then and it wasn't made by Arlington. The former 'president' thinks veterans are suckers and losers and won't be seen with disfigured war heroes because 'it makes him look bad'. It was a campaign stunt.
Please reread post #3.1.2. I stated:
"Looks like, for whatever reason, she just chose not to.".
Nowhere did I imply that she did anything wrong.
In hearing further facts, I have to agree that Trump disrespected vets. As for for the alleged assault of the employee, I'll wait to see what the investigation says. As for my statement that he showed up, that was a personal opinion on my part alone. I make no secret that I do not like Harris and I am just as entitled to state that as others are entitled to do so about Trump, who as I have said on numerous previous occasions that I dislike Trump as well, but it seems those on the left think and expect that I have to verbally villify him with every post about Harris or Biden. That can be a bit tedious.
Why would you think I am defending Trump? Because I happened to make a off the cuff comment? I was not defending anybody and if you and others think that, that is your issue not mine.
What is the point of mentioning that she did not show up if not to criticize her for not showing up?
Maybe you did not mean to defend Trump. Just so you know, I typically do not interject on posts from you where I disagree because I respect you and hold you to be genuine. Thus I prefer to not point these things out. But after about a dozen or so similar posts, I feel obliged to weigh in as I just did.
When someone starts a major thread with this:
That sidesteps the criticism of Trump (the topic of this seed) to a criticism of Harris-Walz.
Breaking it down:
"At least" declares a Trump positive; a defense. The defense goes like this: Even though Trump disrespected the dead veterans, their families, and ANC itself, at least he showed up ("Trump showed up to Arlington").
Your next sentence then explicitly criticizes Harris-Walz: "Have not seen anything about Harris or Waltz putting in appearances." Which plays off of the "At least" to criticize Harris-Walz because they did not even (at least) show up.
Trump's disrespect of dead veterans, their families, and ANC itself is the topic. What Trump did (especially with that grinning, thumbs-up image) clearly shows (yet again) that this is simply a photo op for him. Trump should have been solemn and respectful, not thumbing up and grinning into the camera.
I just do not understand why veterans would NOT use this (or any other) seed to voice their criticism of this disrespect. And I truly do not understand how, instead of Trump criticism, a partial defense is offered. Deadly serious, Ed, I just do not understand this.
Harris has leant on the Biden administration's record on helping pass the landmark Pact Act , described as the largest expansion of veteran benefits since Vietnam. The law resulted in more than a million new benefits claims approved and more than 300,000 new enrolments in its healthcare programme, according to the department of veteran affairs
- from the article above.