The reality is that previous presidents have pardoned people under far shadier circumstances for far more serious crimes.

Trump, for instance, pardoned a number of people who were convicted of crimes in connection with investigations of Russian interference in the 2016 election and his campaign's involvement in it, including Roger Stone, who was convicted of lying to Congress to protect Trump. He also pardoned his 2016 campaign manager Paul Manafort, who was convicted for tax and banking crimes in 2018 and pleaded guilty to "conspiracy against the United States" and witness tampering. He pardoned 2016 campaign aide George Papadopoulos, who admitted that he'd lied to investigators during the Russia probe. He pardoned his former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who he told to "stay strong" during Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation.

Trump also used his pardon power to bestow favor upon his allies and loyalists. He pardoned former GOP Rep. Duncan Hunter and his wife Margaret, who'd misused campaign funds. He pardoned former GOP Rep. Chris Collins, who'd pleaded guilty to securities fraud. Hepardoned Dinesh D'Souza, who violated federal campaign finance laws. He pardoned fellow convicted felon Charles Kushner, the father of his son-in-law Jared Kushner, and recently appointed him ambassador to France. Trump also considered proactively pardoning his own family members. (Biden isn't even the first modern president to pardon a blood relative: Bill Clinton pardoned his half-brother Roger Clinton on the day he left office.)

How many of them pardoned their son where the president themself could be implemented in a crime(s)?

This isnt even a close call.   Given the incoming administration, and the fact that a piece of scum like Kash Patel may well be running American law enforcement,  Biden was totally right to pardon Hunter. 

Given the incoming administration

I do believe that he would not have pardoned Hunter if Harris had won. First, the optics would be horrible for the incoming administration, and he wouldn't have had to fear any potential retribution from a Trump influenced justice department trying to put their thumb on the scales of justice. I don't even think he would have pardoned Hunter if it had been some other Republican candidate who had won.

This pardon was 100% in response to Trump winning the election and all the potential meddling that could happen since even with the sentencing supposed to have occurred before Trump takes office there is no doubt he would have tried to relitigate and further investigate the supposed Ukraine connections and payments supposedly to "the big guy" and Republicans would have been slathering at the mouth as they do anytime there is a possibility of "owning the libs" which is what this is all about. Trying to prove they're not the most corrupt pieces of shit in Washington by outing their oppositions corruption, it's 80% of what our legislature does these days, on both sides. So even if there was no "there" there, we would have spent the next four years bogged down in Republican investigation after investigation all trying to muddy the water and deflect attention off their own corruption onto their opponents which will help them secure more seats and thus increase their political power.

Trying to prove they're not the most corrupt pieces of shit in Washington by outing their oppositions corruption, it's 80% of what our legislature does these days, on both sides.

Let them eat their own. We shall just have to watch as the twisted eat the craven and hope there is something left to clean up when it is over.

He pardoned his son because that's who he's always been.

The guys who brags about putting non-violent crack users who are other people's kids behind bars for five years and then not apply those rules to his kid.   Like so many progressives, a firm believer in "rules for thee, not for me".  

bla bla bla

Trump paroled a rogues gallery of traitorous criminals,  and you want him to be president. 

The media is so spineless they are criticizing Biden for something that was completely prudent. 

and you want him to be president. 

And you use him to  justify pretty much every argument you make.

Biden shows a complete lack of integrity and boldface lies to the American public and what they have is.....Trump? that's a fucked up standard to measure your politicians by if you want to claim to be better. 

[✘]

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Did you read the article?   Kash Patel has repeatedly and specifically said he is going to go after Hunter Biden if given the chance.  Trump wants him to have the chance. 

Patel is not in any way shape or form a reasonable person. He is a QAnon sympathizer and a 2020 election denier. Biden is right to not subject his son to that level of insanity. He should also pardon many other people Patel may want to come after , but it seems that some of them dont want a pardon. 

You mean he was going to treat Hunter like the DOJ has treated those around the trump admin? If Hunter didn't commit any crimes than there isn't a problem right? or are you afraid they will make something up....like say NY did to prosecute a presidential candidate? 

What are you afraid of? that the DoJ will treat keeping secret documents and illegal foreign lobbing the same for democrats as they did for republicans?

The media is so spineless they are criticizing Biden for something that was completely prudent.

Their criticizing because he said HE WOULDN"T DO IT!  All we heard for the past 4 years is "above the law", "above the law", "above the law" guess what, Hunter is above the law!

Hunter is above the law!

It that is just it, illegal selling of access, foreign lobbing without registering, he could have killed his hooker baby momma and joe just wiped it all away, and the left say trump is corrupt. it simple boggles the mind the hypocrisy or disconnect from reality. 

Their criticizing because he said HE WOULDN"T DO IT! 

So what? He changed his mind when Trump started to support unqualified people for law enforcement positions. 

it simple boggles the mind the hypocrisy or disconnect from reality. 

What boggles the mind is people who have supported Trump for nine years getting on some high horse to bitch about this. 

Trump's life story is exponentially more crooked and corrupt than Hunter or Joe Bidens is. 

And once again you have to choose trump to defend Biden, is there no bar to low for you to use to defend Biden, or his crackhead son? 

He changed his mind when Trump started to support unqualified people for law enforcement positions. 

Ummm, wasn't sentencing supposed to be this month? 

What would Trump's picks have to do with it in that case?

e changed his mind when Trump

No, they decided in June to lie about a promise of no pardon because it played better electorally.   

The unintended consequences of this is, even with the pardon it doesn't prevent them from calling Hunter to testify about the "family" business, he can't plead the fifth, and if he lies he goes to prison, so Biden may have to pardon everyone even his violent German Shepherds. 

The WHOLE reason. Re-election hopes.............

getting on some high horse to bitch about this. 

That horse is lame and ready for the glue factory

 Kash Patel has repeatedly and specifically said he is going to go after Hunter Biden if given the chance.

Can you point me to your objection to Bragg literally campaigning on that?

atel is not in any way shape or form a reasonable person.

Patel is not a Judge, nor would he be on jury.   As you said many times, if someone doesn't commit a crime, what's the big deal with them being investigated and prosecuted? 

‘That horse is lame and ready for the glue factory‘

We have been saying the same thing about you (collective you) leftists bitching about Trump and things you can never prove.

unqualified people for law enforcement positions.

Oh, spare me, you don't like them, so you call them unqualified. 

There is this talk about qualified people being put into positions of power based on MERIT. . .scoldings about so-called DEI hires given positions undeserved. . . and then these people are grafted in by the ones making the claim on behalf of merit-sake! Well, merit-less-ness is more like it!

There is this talk about qualified people being put into positions of power based on MERIT.

You mean in the Trump administration, right. 

No, I don't mean whatever it is that thinks it means. 

A federal jury found that Hunter violated laws intended to keep drug addicts from owning guns, but according to legal experts, those charges are rarely brought to trial unless part of some larger crime. Three months later, Hunter pleaded guilty to failing to pay $1.4 million in taxes between 2014 and 2019. (Hunter paid the full tax bill in 2020.) Once again, legal experts confirmed that criminal, rather than civil, prosecutions for such offenses are "very rare."

It's also true that these minimal charges were also the result of the DOJ slow-walking the investigation that the more serious charges timed out due to the statute of limitations. 

The optics of the pardon look bad because they are. A blanket pardon for any and all over a ten year period that coincides with Biden's time as Obama's Vice President also. People can definitely look at that and wonder, and rightfully so.

One other thing to watch for. As the flurry of end-of-term pardons are made (which every President does as they leave office), will any others in the Biden family and circle have their pardons buried in the mix in hopes they are not seen? One definitely can be concerned what how badly this will mutate into with later Presidents.

"While it's true that the charges against Hunter are absurd."

Seriously? They sound pretty legit to a reasonable person. Really bad optics here again for the democrat party, which will be remembered in the 2026 midterms, and in 2828.

Your predictions of what you think people will do invariably turn out to be wrong.

What is likely to happen is that Patel's DOJ and the decontaminated FBI will open investigations into Biden's illegal activities once he's out of office.

riously? They sound pretty legit to a reasonable person

The same people who justify charging Trump using a misdemeanor statute no one has ever been convicted under are now claiming it's absurd to charge someone for gun and tax crimes. I'd say it was unbelievable, but it was always perfectly predictable. 

People who defend Trump have absolutely no credibility. 

People who constantly deflect to Trump to defend leftists have no credibility

People who constantly deflect to Trump to defend leftists have no credibility

Amen

After what, 9 years of watch so many excuse, so much inexcusable, it is beyond reason, and without justification, as we watch those who can defend, deny, or rationalize and justify the never before violations inflicted upon this nation by an inccesant LYING Criminal crime wave consisting of won who lost, and tried to overtake 2020 vision s with his own, stole documents as if he was on a throne, makes rules up as if he could, and the Repub pussies just bite their tongues and enable and allow, while a tempting to call out any and all an infraction invisible and or too small, as when compared to what the

Maniacal mental midget miscreant liar of inflation and immigration, spouts out and upon this nation more Lies and inappropriate behaviors while being backed by those who claim they know their saviors, makes it extremely diffi cult to watch, these hippo critical oaths attempt to be the ethical and moral authority, as if only because the courts were stacked to make justice eluded, and no matter the evdence Mt Killanmanjaroh, they cheer picks like recently released felon, Pete Navaro , need more WHISKEY in the jarro to deal with those the art of was used to make squeal, as he pushes the project he never heard of in 2024, while hiring about 8 or so authors of the project he said never left the floor, cause it was inside your administration heads, as you said I was allowed to steal documents I don't own as I just think about them, and they are declassidfied, cause what a defense that ever changed, but thats normal speak its the Dems to blame, as I watch the water boys carry the pussy grabbers bag [s], have to chuckle at all the wrinkly sags, in the tales that wag and wage a tale and war, disrespectfully stated, cause sick of how all things Dems BAD, while all things Trump, just not admittin, accepting, acknowledhgeing , anything was or ever could be   BAD,    and for US   it be sad, but were glad you little pussies grabbed buyTrump all live in denial, for the acceptance of the truth, might really further defile  

Biden admittedly didn't communicate this well in his December 1 statement announcing Hunter's pardon. He claimed he'd "wrestled" with the decision but now believes "raw politics has infected this process and it led to a miscarriage of justice."

Two things can be right at the same time. Biden 'understood' the methodology of the Right about Hunter when he delivered the sacrificial lamb of his son to the 'jaws' of justice. He did not STIPULATE that any 'hanky-panky' would be a condition that would change his EMPHATIC "No!" to pardoning or commuting his son. This is son was delivered to the jaws of justice (by whomsoever) and then selfishly snatched away. Of course, those on the other side of the 'hungry jaws' of justice will cry that while it is a thing 'do-able' - it is at the same time a thing that is a Lie. 

We must not defend the lie (it is indefensible) and our own validity will be lost on the matter. Joe Biden broke his word. He threw his reputation on the alter for his son. (and the public and historians will have to factor how much credibility he can keep after doing so). That is undeniable. A father saved his son—his son should be ashamed for desperately needing his father to do so.

Now anything other may be: WHATABOUTISM.

Now anything other may be: WHATABOUTISM.

Well, actually, I used a conditional "may-be."  So, have at it with any truth you can share.   Besides, my 'stance' is actually one of both sides having a point. Joe Biden for being president and able to pardon and commute his son under presidential pardon power and his denials of rendering the same as being a lie once he did do so. But, some libertarians can argue 'away' anyhow.

Biden's motivation to pardon his son (after assuring the American people that he had faith in the U.S. justice system and would not give his son a pardon) is really immaterial

The result of his lying to the American people, disproving his confidence in the American justice system and issuing the pardon is that he and the left have now sacrificed the moral high ground when it comes to pardons.

The left t will just have to sit back and swallow hard when Trump starts issuing pardons 

Ironic and a little funny but also tragic because Hunter and those convicted of Jan 6 offenses all belong in jail - but Biden made sure that would not be the case

The result of his lying to the American people, disproving his confidence in the American justice system and issuing the pardon is that he and the left have now sacrificed the moral high ground when it comes to pardons.

horseshit

I actually agree with this, because comment 7 is a sweeping generalization about situational circumstances. In this case, one man's pardon versus a 'dispatch' of pardons. That said, the power of the pardon has always been 'sweeping' in its ability to release. . . well, 'anybody.' Wisdom accounted for or dropped on its head by the president deploying it.

It is what it is.

It is what it is.

unless it isn't....

Not much to make a distinction with there.

i'd have to disagree, as i see them as polar opposites, and am not pro Biden pardon, but i am pro save ones son, when pops position brought much about why he strayed, imo

I am not sure why it is some readers think that I am against Biden saving his son. I am not. I get why he did it. Still, he did so by way of a lie. Biden is 52 years in his political career. He knows the stereotypical nature of politicians to lie for proper purposes and for error purposes. 

I do not say the above lightly. As Biden surely knows that his opponents (and critics) will say that he is a liar because he gave his 'proper' word and when the times got hard for this son. . . he went back on it. 

We would say the same thing about Trump if he said one thing and when the chips were down. . . went back on his word.

We have to be clear! It does not make Biden a bad person for saving his son. . . in the context. But, he saved his son. . . by way of telling a lie and denying the courts its proper role in the matter (Biden did not even wait for the sentencing to post itself.)  

I get it. But a lie is a lie is a lie. Even when one does it for the right rationale. A rationale I agree with by the way.

with Trump winning, and his selections for appointed positions that be just way beyond bazaar, I still can't agree, and as stated, I think it sucks that he 'lied', or changed his mind due to VERY different circumstances. Less not forget,

Hunter had already been sentenced, but the probation offer was rescinded after the 'Law and Order gang that wouldn't convict TRump on REAL threats to our country no matter how much damn evidence, decided it was not severe enuff. At least that is what i recall, as never gave a shit about Bidens' crime spree when the accusers were those who denied ,lied, and out cried nothing, as theyb excused EVERYTHING the scum bag did.

Well that is certainly a well thought out and intellectual response to the issue.

I partly agree with you, Biden's pardon of Hunter was certainly equine feces

Biden PROPERLY pardoned his son because Trump appointees to the justice system cannot be trusted.   Kash Patel spent four years saying he would go after Hunter Biden. 

What do you want, an unending supply of "Burisma" bullshit?   The right has had 5 years to produce EVIDENCE about that and came up empty.  The only reason to keep it going is to give Trump pleasure and subservience. 

Hunter already plead guilty to federal crimes - there is no doubt of his guilt.

There are many in the center and on the right that would say the Biden Justice Dept cannot be trusted, but neither that nor your assertion about the potential Trump justice system is anything but speculation and propaganda.

I said the reason for the pardon was immaterial and that is the FACT in this conversation - a president can pardon whomever he wants to and Biden has shown that it is "proper" to pardon people who have pleaded guilty to or been convicted on federal crimes.

And that process I fear will continue

I personally don't care what Hunter did or did not do with the Ukranian corporations, government officials and mobsters and it seems President Biden and the Democrats don't either.

I am sure the Democrat Dung will continue to be flung and that Republican Retch will be spewed in reply.

That is why

But a lie is a lie is a lie.

Is it a lie, or is it a careful reconsideration given new circumstances? The Reight was going to make hay out of this issue whether he did or not, all of the dirty laundry of their own incoming administration notwithstanding. 

Get your popcorn ready. It is going to be a shit-show, and nobody will leave untainted. 

I said the reason for the pardon was immaterial and that is the FACT in this conversation - a president can pardon whomever he wants to and Biden has shown that it is "proper" to pardon people who have pleaded guilty to or been convicted on federal crimes. And that process I fear will continue

Whom do Presidents pardon if not the above class???

The only reason to keep it going is to give Trump pleasure and subservience. 

Nah, their base eats it up. Just look at the results. More lions for the Christians to slay.

Is it a lie, or is it a careful reconsideration given new circumstances?

Lol.  Biden and his advisors  literally decided in June to keep all  options open about a pardon while they would publicly announce  that they decided not to pardon him. It's the very definition of a lie. 

It's really something to watch his base try and rationalize this and still not realize they are marks. 

still not realize they are marks. 

Most of them know it, they just don’t care and but Trump

LOL. You have no credibility as far as I am concerned. Once in a while your commentary is almost correct, but then you have to pollute the same with misdirection and half truths. 

It's really something to watch his base try and rationalize this and still not realize they are marks.

I am not rationalizing. I am questioning. You ought to try it sometime. It might lead to clear thoughts, or at least a clean nose.

Biden and his advisors  literally decided in June to keep all  options open about a pardon...

I am sure that you have literal documentation to support this claim.

From  Statement from President Joe   Biden

Today, I signed a pardon for my son Hunter. From the day I took office, I said I would not interfere with the Justice Department’s decision-making, and I kept my word even as I have watched my son being selectively, and unfairly, prosecuted. Without aggravating factors like use in a crime, multiple purchases, or buying a weapon as a straw purchaser, people are almost never brought to trial on felony charges solely for how they filled out a gun form. Those who were late paying their taxes because of serious addictions, but paid them back subsequently with interest and penalties, are typically given non-criminal resolutions. It is clear that Hunter was treated differently. 
 
The charges in his cases came about only after several of my political opponents in Congress instigated them to attack me and oppose my election. Then, a carefully negotiated plea deal, agreed to by the Department of Justice, unraveled in the court room – with a number of my political opponents in Congress taking credit for bringing political pressure on the process. Had the plea deal held, it would have been a fair, reasonable resolution of Hunter’s cases.   
 
No reasonable person who looks at the facts of Hunter’s cases can reach any other conclusion than Hunter was singled out only because he is my son – and that is wrong. There has been an effort to break Hunter – who has been five and a half years sober, even in the face of unrelenting attacks and selective prosecution. In trying to break Hunter, they’ve tried to break me – and there’s no reason to believe it will stop here. Enough is enough. 
 
For my entire career I have followed a simple principle: just tell the American people the truth. They’ll be fair-minded. Here’s the truth: I believe in the justice system, but as I have wrestled with this, I also believe raw politics has infected this process and it led to a miscarriage of justice – and once I made this decision this weekend, there was no sense in delaying it further. I hope Americans will understand why a father and a President would come to this decision. 

ou have no credibility as far as I am concerned

I don't parrot progressive talking points  so that's not a surprise.  

m sure that you have literal documentation to support this claim.

It was reported almost immediately  by NBC. I posted a link to it on numerous occasions. Let's just agree you'll refuse to accept it's validity because it's unhelpful to what you need to believe. .  

or my entire career I have followed a simple principle: just tell the American people the truth. 

do you believe this too?

I don't parrot progressive talking points  so that's not a surprise.  

No, you parrot the Reight and other reactionary sources. 

 It was reported almost immediately  by NBC. I posted a link to it on numerous occasions.

Then you should not have any difficulty posting it again. 

Let's just agree you'll refuse to accept it's validity because it's unhelpful to what you need to believe

I will accept as valid most of what the legacy media provides as news, as long as it is factual and not opinion masquerading as news. Most true news departments tend to get things correct most of the time.

or my entire career I have followed a simple principle: just tell the American people the truth.  do you believe this too?

He's a politician, so not absolutely. In this case, I do believe that the largest reason for the prosecution of Hunter Biden was a desire to make him a political liability for the President and to give the internet rumor mill some grist. While the quoted statement might not be literally true, I believe that it was not deceitfully duplicitous but more a statement of intent.

I believe Biden is a much better person than Trump could ever hope to be, but that phrase implies that he wishes to be someone else, and that does not fit into the Trump POV at all. 

I believe Biden is a much better person than Trump could ever hope to be ...

It is amazing that any functioning adult cannot see that.

I get it. For my part, I am tired of them all. It's already a 'sh-t-show' as one side is basically saying 'eff' the rule of law, 'eff' appearances, 'eff' ethics and the other side is being dragged down into the muck and mire doing proverbial kicking and screaming and committing immoral acts required to break even. We're all doomed. As "we" played ourselves and the CONFIDENT MEN ("Madmen" are coming to power in a big way. . . for now.)

He's a politician, so not absolutely. In this case, I do believe that the largest reason for the prosecution of Hunter Biden was a desire to make him a political liability for the President and to give the internet rumor mill some grist. While the quoted statement might not be literally true, I believe that it was not deceitfully duplicitous but more a statement of intent

Here's the thing. Biden is a life-long politician. That said, being so does not make him a fool. He accepts the 'hit' of being a liar (since his opposition surely won't let him alone about it), but at the end of the day . . . his son is at 'rest'. . .an Biden plans to go home to his wife. . .his children. . . and Hunter.

Biden's motivation to pardon his son (after assuring the American people that he had faith in the U.S. justice system and would not give his son a pardon) is really immaterial

How is it immaterial when Trump has continuously threatened any and all thatv e feels aren't submissive surrendering frantic sychophantic suck ups, as demonstrated by his picks so far bazaar, as his AG nominee has stated as much, she will be prosecuting the prosecutors. That is not American yet she is applauded and as Trump previiously stated, he screwed himself with Sessions, and then even the lowered Barr, after he said the stolen election claims were 'BULLSHit'!

His whole clown show of nominees, half who just recently got out of the klink , is such a joke, that i think i'll have a drink, to drive, my point home. A fatherattempting to protect his son for problems his family name did play part in, is certainly not without sin, but with Trumps track record of crimes, who the fck wishes to leave his only remaining sons fate, in the hands of a convicted felon who without the activated Supreme Court, would and should, right now, be behind bars. There is know comparing these two presidents,and if you weren't crying and denouncing Trumps actions, and also pardons brought aboutprevious, to cry about this, is a tad disingenuous, but if you were, you certainly have more right to, butvthat doesn't make a father protecting his son all that much worse, imho. 

I have no argument with most of what you say - Trump has and will make ridiculous decisions about pardoning criminals who belong in jail and going after people without reason because he does not like them.

He has done such things before and will surely do them again.

You mention the Trump clown show and again I agree, but this pardon after a pledge to the American people that he would not pardon his son and would let the justice system take its course makes Biden a dues paying member of that clown show.

You mention the Trump clown show and again I agree, but this pardon after a pledge to the American people that he would not pardon his son and would let the justice system take its course makes Biden a dues paying member of that clown show.

No, Bidens' ears are not large enuff, & his Nose doesn't stink, enuff , and by the time The Circus leaves Town ,Trump will be needing A Freighty CaT Train wrecked from the wear and tare a scratched surface where sand bags the elderly, that will continue to itch, and irregardless of what younger Biden might testify to, how exactly would it affect the Trump never needed B 4 immunity dealings, cause it is , the powers that beez just ridiculous and as the activatedSupreme Quart has given Joe an electric election via cross dressin further inspection polyunsaturated Ester, who Trump did tri, undressin and a messin wit, causewhen certain winds shift, as they blow harder than Trump trying to put out who will look out for him in. His nominees for another term , a slow and constant burn, are making stomachs churn up the bottom, churn up the bottom, , where Trump would go to in the swamp, to find the best, brightest, and furtherest from one who might unite US. The situation has changed from when Biden did declare. If i due overtly recall correctly, Biden was originally senteced for delinquent taxes and for lying on a gun application, real end of US as we know US charges, unlike Trumps charges that never came about to fruition cause of an activated taco Supremely disappointing quart action and unfirling. But after the flailing and wailing buy the bought and brought forth wishes of a Republican House and Senate,there was to be new sentencing due to overusage of questions and the marks they leave. Many legal minds believe the probation offer previously accepted was apropos, now they are saying this new sentencing is a tad bazaar and wouldn't have normally gone this far unless one was Biden their time potentially prescribed...for one who was a son  of say a Potus.After listening to all Trumps threats, after the Repubs consistently playe down and wrote of the Jerk, off to just hyperbolic boloviating, but apparently he does very much follow through on his threats and hedges all bets, with outlandish department head picks who've all stated their blind loyalty to the fealty disfigured Orange won who lost.He and his mutant choices are scary voices that again, I think could change ones minjd when it comes to ones own only last kin.

This is just the culmination of Bidenomics, the circle is now complete.

Then why has he gone on record, several times, that he wasn’t going to pardon Hunter?

Some people are convinced Biden was just being altruistic in pardoning Hunter. I don't believe so. Biden was covering his own behind to make sure what Hunter did and might say abput Joe's dealings stays "in the family".

I disagree

Hunter can now be called as a witness and with full immunity be forced to testify about anything and everything concerning accusations of presidential involvement in any number of circumstances that he found himself.

He can no longer plead the fifth as he has blanket immunity

But he can say he cannot clearly remember do to drug abuse which he was pardoned for

What I believe we will see is if any DA, state or federal, files charges against Biden for criminal activity, the left will scream that it is cruel and unusual to go after an 82 year old man, but will have zero problem with the leftist DAs CONTINUING to go after Trump, who will be about the same age, after he leaves office. 

He can no longer plead the fifth as he has blanket immunity

People keep bringing this up. First what in the pardon pertains to family business and second what legal precedence overrides anyone's rights?

we will see is if any DA, state or federal, files charges against Biden for criminal activity,

Right. Hillary will be indicted any day now... What do you think a DA can find that 2 Congressional investigation committees didn't find after over 2 years of digging?

People keep bringing this up. First what in the pardon pertains to family business and second what legal precedence overrides anyone's rights?

The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees that an individual cannot be compelled by the government to provide incriminating information about herself – the so-called “right to remain silent.”  When an individual “takes the Fifth,” she invokes that right and refuses to answer questions or provide information that might incriminate her.

The Fifth Amendment can be invoked only in certain situations.

• An individual can only invoke the Fifth Amendment in response to a communication that is   compelled , such as through a subpoena or other legal process.
• The communication must also be   testimonial   in nature. In other words, it must relate to either express or implied assertions of fact or belief.  For example, a nod would be considered a testimonial communication for purposes of the Fifth Amendment.  So would the act of producing documents or any other piece of evidence; the act of production communicates an implied assertion that the individual possessed the evidence.
• Finally, the testimony must be   self-incriminating , such that the information would provide a link in the chain of evidence needed to prosecute the individual for a crime. Thus, the information itself need not be incriminating; it suffices that the information would lead to the discovery of incriminating evidence.

Because the communication must be self-incriminating, an individual who has received immunity cannot invoke the Fifth Amendment as a basis for refusing to answer questions; any statements would not be incriminating because the immunity prevents the government from using those statements (or any evidence derived from them) in a criminal prosecution against the individual.  Likewise, an individual who has received a pardon may not have any basis for invoking the Fifth Amendment.  Finally, an individual who has been convicted of a crime and sentenced cannot invoke the Fifth Amendment.

What Does It Really Mean To “Take the Fifth”?: MoloLamken LLP (ML) Law Firm / Attorneys

Because the communication must be self-incriminating, an individual who has received immunity cannot invoke the Fifth Amendment as a basis for refusing to answer questions;

He could just refuse to answer, but okay I'll concede the point. Now show me where his pardon has anything to do with anything it concerns Joe himself.

He could just refuse to answer

Then he goes to jail for contempt of court. 

Now show me where his pardon has anything to do with anything it concerns Joe himself.

See 10.2.1.  There was no direct evidence that Joe himself received any of the millions that came into the family but there is the suspicion.

There was no direct evidence that Joe himself received any of the millions that came into the family but there is the suspicion.

Where do people think they can find the evidence 2 Congressional investigations couldn't find? 

up their butts

Then he goes to jail for contempt of court. 

Maybe he does. Trump never did when he was considered in contempt.  It's up to the judge. What twisted logic do you used to get Hunter on the stand in the first place?

“up their butts”

A jim jordan shocker. 

lol

I didn't consider that when I wrote it

Where do people think they can find the evidence 2 Congressional investigations couldn't find? 

The point may be that Trumpster investigators wont need evidence. They wont get convictions, but they will get the joy of harassing people and forcing them to spend a large part of their lives hiring lawyers. 

By the way, before Trump fans say he was "harassed ", he has lost every single court case against him that was allowed to proceed to the end.  (EJean Carroll, the financial fraud case, and the 2016 election payment to Stormy Daniels case). 

Trump never did when he was considered in contempt.  It's up to the judge.

When was Trump ever held in contempt by a court? 

You realize criminal investigations are much different beast than congressional ones, right? Equating them is foolish. 

hey wont get convictions, 

Lol.

efore Trump fans say he was "harassed ", he has lost every single court case against him that was allowed to proceed to the end

And all the times it didn't proceed to the "end"?

they will get the joy of harassing people and forcing them to spend a large part of their lives hiring lawyers. 

A practice you defended."If he's not guilty, what's he got to hide?"  Remember that? 

Are you for real? Never heard of Google huh? cnn

And all the times it didn't proceed to the "end"?

Are you serious? The reason they didnt "proceed to the end" is because Trump successfully stalled and stalled.  He is guilty as hell in all of them and everyone knows it, especially Trump himself. 

That's not for refusing to answer questions, is it? 

he reason they didnt "proceed to the end"

Really? what crimes did he commit conspiring with Russia? 

Project Lincoln

The transition into another Trump term is already an unmitigated disaster

The grift keeps grifting. 

, the Lincoln Project paid around $7 million to consulting firms led by senior Lincoln Project operatives

gazette

How else are they going to keep the money flowing in? Hysteria sells.

When was Trump ever held in contempt by a court? 

When he continued to tweet about court staff during his trial. He was fined several times for contempt. Legally he could have been jailed during the trial, but because he was an ex-President with a Secret Service detail it's understandable he wasn't. 

You realize criminal investigations are much different beast than congressional ones, right? Equating them is foolish. 

You're evading the question. Where do you think criminal investigators can go to find evidence that Congress couldn't? 

Okay, but we were talking about Hunter Biden being held  in contempt for refusing to answer questions. You can't just refuse to answer questions in a criminal investigation if you don't have the 5th Amendment to protect you. 

He was fined several times for contempt.

I think it was 10+ times, fucking idiot should have been in a holding cell somewhere.

Where do you think criminal investigators can go to find evidence that Congress couldn't? 

You can start at the same place with many more tools at your disposal. Congressional investigators don't have that much power.

And frankly, with the FARA charges, there doesn't even need to be more investigation. There was plenty of evidence in public to charge Hunter and start the ball rolling. 

You must think that every single bit of right wing broadcast media are grifters then. 

must think that every single bit of right wing broadcast media are grifters then.

Any company that takes donations and funnels the donations to the founders' for profit companies are grifting, yes.

How do you take the Lincoln Project seriously?  Their entire business model requires this sort of performative outrage to get the marks to give them money. 

charger

That is what every mob father wants, a son that will lie under oath for him

bugsy

Be assured that Trump will issue a total pardon for himself for all previous, current and future crimes before he leaves office.  

You can't just refuse to answer questions in a criminal investigation if you don't have the 5th Amendment to protect you. 

We've already established you can, but there are consequences. Since then we've moved on to - under what pretext can you get Hunter in the seat to have him testify? Let's see if you can once more circle around to another deflection...

You can start at the same place with many more tools at your disposal. Congressional investigators don't have that much power.

Yeah... good luck with that fishing expedition. 

And frankly, with the FARA charges, there doesn't even need to be more investigation.

Hunter's pardon covered any crimes he committed or may have committed. That makes this pretty much moot unless there is new evidence linking Joe. Which there is not.

And when/if Hunter does testify (whatever) and he says his father did nothing. . . some conservatives will be back to their 'nothing-burger' with nothing sauce on it.

Jeff Sessions: ‘I Have No Idea’ How Many Times I’ve Said I Can’t Recall Things

Where Is Innocent Until Proven Guilty Found in the Constitution?

constitutionus

Frivolous Lawsuit: Legal Consequences for Plaintiffs

Filing a frivolous lawsuit can lead to significant legal consequences for the plaintiff. Courts have the authority to dismiss these claims outright, and in some cases, they may impose sanctions against the plaintiff.

Sanctions can include monetary penalties, required payment of the defendant’s legal fees, or even restrictions on future filings. These consequences serve as a deterrent against the misuse of the legal system for frivolous purposes.

• Potential Consequences :
  • Dismissal of the lawsuit
  • Monetary penalties for the plaintiff
  • Requirement to pay the defendant’s legal costs

Understanding these repercussions can dissuade individuals from pursuing frivolous claims and promote a more responsible approach to litigation.

The Impact of Frivolous Lawsuits on the Legal System

Frivolous lawsuits have a detrimental impact on the legal system as a whole. They contribute to court congestion, diverting resources away from legitimate cases that require judicial attention. This can lead to longer wait times for trials and increased costs for all parties involved.

Moreover, frivolouslawsuits can undermine public trust in the legal system. When individuals witness or hear about absurd legal claims making it to court, it can diminish confidence in the integrity and efficacy of the judiciary.

The presence of frivolouslawsuits may also prompt lawmakers to consider stricter regulations or reforms aimed at discouraging such actions. This ongoing battle against frivolous claims is crucial for maintaining the credibility and functionality of the legal system.

How to Identify a Frivolous Lawsuit

Identifying a  frivolous lawsuit  involves assessing the claims made and the evidence provided. Key indicators include:

1. Absurd Claims : Lawsuits that make unreasonable assertions or demand excessive damages without justification.
2. Lack of Evidence : Cases that do not present any credible evidence to support the allegations.
3. Poor Legal Arguments : Claims that rely on outdated or irrelevant legal theories.

Understanding these indicators can help individuals and legal professionals determine whether a lawsuit is worth pursuing or if it should be challenged in court.

lawjudicial

Biden was covering his own behind to make sure what Hunter did and might say abput Joe's dealings stays "in the family".

Why? The pardon does not cover any of that. Furthermore 2 Congressional committees couldn't find evidence of criminal activity in over 2 years of investigations, how does anyone think further flogging of the carcass will produce new results?

The pardon covers a ten year period including when Joe Biden was the VP. As far as criminal activity don't forget the money trail that the committee does have. They showed millions of dollars coming to the family from foreign actors and nations. They just didn't find a direct link to Joe getting the money himself.

The pardon covers a ten year period including when Joe Biden was the VP.

How is that relevant?

As far as criminal activity don't forget the money trail that the committee does have. 

Where they conceded in their report they could find no activity that rises to the level of criminality.

They showed millions of dollars coming to the family from foreign actors and nations.

If this were the basis of indicting people most of Congress would be in deep shit. 

They just didn't find a direct link to Joe getting the money himself.

And MAGA sycophants want to beat that dead horse some more? I don't understand any pretext one can use to pull Hunter into court to testify against his father. 

This sounds more like when everyone was claiming they would indict Obama and Clinton 'any day now' all over again.

The pardon covers a ten year period including when Joe Biden was the VP.

How is that relevant?

It seems that you are ignoring the elephant in the room. Would you honestly feel the same way if the family name was Trump?

As far as criminal activity don't forget the money trail that the committee does have. 

Where they conceded in their report they could find no activity that rises to the level of criminality.

They were investigating Joe Biden and did not find proof of criminality for Joe. They did recommend I believe that the DOJ look at Hunter for failure to register as required under FARA (Foreign Agent Registration Act).

They showed millions of dollars coming to the family from foreign actors and nations.

If this were the basis of indicting people most of Congress would be in deep shit. 

You almost seem ok with this. IMO anybody who takes money from a foreign actor or nation should be indicted. That IMO is a clear conflict of interest.

They just didn't find a direct link to Joe getting the money himself.

And MAGA sycophants want to beat that dead horse some more? I don't understand any pretext one can use to pull Hunter into court to testify against his father. 

This sounds more like when everyone was claiming they would indict Obama and Clinton 'any day now' all over again.

Seems like a straw man fallacy to me. All I said was the committee did not find any direct link to Joe getting any of the money himself. I never took it anywhere else.

It seems that you are ignoring the elephant in the room. Would you honestly feel the same way if the family name was Trump?

If Congress investigated for over 2 years and released their report saying they couldn't find a link then yes. 

They were investigating Joe Biden and did not find proof of criminality for Joe. They did recommend I believe that the DOJ look at Hunter for failure to register as required under FARA (Foreign Agent Registration Act).

So nothing on Joe, but a reason for Joe to pardon Hunter on? Got it.

You almost seem ok with this. IMO anybody who takes money from a foreign actor or nation should be indicted. That IMO is a clear conflict of interest.

No, I'm definitely not ok with how Congress does oversight of itself. We live in a global economy whether we like it or not. Congress and their family members own businesses that often deal with foreigners. At this point it's almost a given. Yes, it is a clear conflict of interest and the laws should reflect it, but who writes those laws? That doesn't mean it's okay to partisanly pursue one guy's family over all the others. 

Seems like a straw man fallacy to me. All I said was the committee did not find any direct link to Joe getting any of the money himself. I never took it anywhere else.

I don't consider you a MAGA sycophant so I was not directing that comment at you. You can look at other posts here salivating at the possibility that a Trump DOJ would chase retribution on Uncle Joe.

Also, as I have posted here several times in these conversations, had they found any evidence of criminality I supported impeachment and criminal charges. 

Would you honestly feel the same way if the family name was Trump?

A question about a question. Irrelevant and circular.

IMO anybody who takes money from a foreign actor or nation should be indicted. That IMO is a clear conflict of interest.

We will look for consistency of this libertarian opinion when January 20, 2025 onward begins from some conservatives. 

That is not the proper way to question someone's motivation. BTW, pardons are not subjected to motivation. . . they can be done solely based on passion. (We simply have to hope that they done with a sense of decency and/or for the good, nevertheless.

And they call Trump a liar.     Hilarious!

And they call Trump a liar.     Hilarious!

It is a tried and true strategy.  "It is OK if Biden lies because.........Trump!"

It is OK if Biden lies because.........Trump!"

Wrong. I wish ALL Pols would not lie, but that isn't going to get them elected now is it. I do not like the fact that Biden chose to pardon Hunter, gatherers of why however make a succinct and plausible reason as to why Biden would as he should suspect that the infect potus in wait, could further harass his son and entire family, by rehashing what has already been overused and abused. That was the best they could and is the worst things they could find on Biden and his family ? WTF Republicans, take a closer look at the criminal crime wave you have again allowed to pollute our White Power House of ill repute, where Trump kiss asses will be a nation disaster in no time, as look at the unrest this mess of a 'man' has already brought about, and all because peoples refused to, or were denied the chance, to take a closer look, at now our 47th president elect, because if one were to inspect what is in the bottom of  two year olds' underpants and maga chants, the shit would be the same, and insane just a decade ago it would have been considered, the acceptance of, the behaviors from our elected leaders that have fallen into the abyss, all while our elected leader Trump, waits for another shower of piss if he doesn't stop the aid to Ukraine, as the amount of frustration from sheep, with a normal president and his cabinet, was insane, 

but the normalization of sanity is making it difficult for me to go easy on thee, but I again bite my proverbial tongue, cause I see myself as better than the moral malaise creeping back to attack our traditional higher offices, as they strip them of decency, all to pander to ignorance told that which they oh so needed to hear, about it was and is not their fault, that our country is fizzin and fading away, like a seagull who just sucked up a few tablets of alka seltzer, I've got a feeling there are going to be some explosions, and not just from Putin in Dons face, Trump is set on tearing US apart, and so far the tears have caused only minor tears, but the culmination will prove to cause far more tears and far more tears than the short sided tiny minded GOP could have ever had the vision to sea, 

the depths this dislodged nugget of gold toilet feces  lowers our own species as he is backed up and backed by a clogged sewer, making US clogged Sewer Grate Again, asz the trucks he stole the documents in, again  back on and up to our old out White House,

as in an

out housing of the largest piece of SHIT never convicted by the stench of a Republican Senate Hell bent on retaining their power over this nation, over doing what was Right, to properly preserve this Nation, and the lies told to rationalize the ration of lies spread by he and thee, is difficult for some of US to witness so many who blatantly refuse and choose, along with so many mis or under informed, to see, or be able to see what this is, was, and will be doing to our once United,while now Divided, States many, along with me,

Cause from where we were , to where we are and are headed to be, just is not where we are supposed to, and for so many to be in denial, it puts our entire country on trial

and if we end up with a jury verdict,

lets hope it is  well and a Jury of not what it a peers

cause if it's not, and instead it is a well hung jury of pro-noun sportin queers who've consumed far too many beers, the tears and the tears, down all four cheeks of red, are going to be the blood sweat and tears, of maga malignancies gone wild on a country seriously FCKD over buy a bought country wrought with leaders who achieve power via cheaters that enable them to see glasses that fogged reality, and left morality to be determined by the vermin that will allow the varmint Trump back into our White Power House where he spouts and is about things un American and then acts out on them like not an actor, but that actual thing, as he is 

Un American 

And they call Trump a liar.     Hilarious!

Trump IS a LIAR, why would you not call him one ? 

Trump is someone who wins (by any means necessary). It is what some conservatives want to do for themselves. . .be free to win (without any (damn) rule of law to hold them back from doing so. Finally, some conservatives do not value 99.99 percent of 'rules' or values that liberals value-specifically when they are not some conservative values.

The above is why Trump's lying (which is against Right-wing Christian values) does not count against him with some conservatives. He supports their worldview (i.e., their morality/values) and is against liberal morality and values. That makes it 'proper' and acceptable to them to have him as their #1.

Splat …. Right over your head!

Rhetorical nonsense.

Says people who can't be bothered to say why! Because it is true. We'll take the silence of interacting with the comment with any detail as evidence and affirmation.

Be happy to respond to anything that isn’t butthurt nonsense, oxymorons, half truths, lies and/or misrepresentations.

The forum is always open for such realities.

“Be happy to respond to anything that isn’t butthurt nonsense, half truths, lies and/or misrepresentations.”

Oh no, sparty…you feel compelled to respond to anything, anytime…always in a willingness to distort, distract, and defend the indefensible. Carry on in your quixotic quest.

We know what to expect, in expecting nothing of substance. 

Personal insults will get you nowhere with me.    Mainly because I could care less what your opinion is.

Sorry not sorry ……

I could care less

You use this phrase all the time; stating the opposite of what you are trying to express.    I have ignored it dozens of times, but I will now offer this once.   The phrase is "I could NOT care less".

”I could care less what your opinion is.”

Opinions do vary…no?

You use this phrase all the time;

All the time eh?    How times is that?    Twice?    Thrice?    

The point is made and this isn’t a term paper.    That said any spelling or punctuations corrections while you’re hot?

Welcome to the internet tig …..

One things for sure, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Thx man, you’re the best

Rhetorical nonsense. Do it (already). Engage. Interact. Discuss with us a few substantive moral issues and or values that some conservatives agree on with some liberals (including in this Biden/Biden pardon case). 

“Flattery is a kind of bad money, to which our vanity gives us currency.”

~ Francois de la Rochefocauld

Some find themselves overdrawn…

Some need to dig way back to a 17th century French moralist for back up.    To which I circle back to …… opinions do vary.

Mine is unchanged by frenchie …….

I gave you the info.   Ignore it, I could not care less.

Ignore it, I could not care less.

That explains why you felt the need to comment on it. 

Cool, we agree on something.    Neither of us give a shit about the others opinion.    Works for me.

In my case regarding a nitpicker of grammar on the internet.    Bad form for most but I do know the type that choses to go there.    Never had much use for any of those.

As stated. Some conservatives are not interested in two-way discussions, positive interactions, or 'team-building' with some liberals; just negativity for negativity sake and 'poisoning' the discussion pool (by  commenting against and only against some liberals).

Evidence of the point made at 11.2.1!

Nope but feel free to take another swing.

Saw this and felt it applied to this discussion

Before pardoning his son, Biden had repeatedly pledged not to do so. He said in a statement explaining his reversal that the prosecution had been poisoned by politics. The decision prompted criminal justice advocates and lawmakers to put additional public pressure on the administration to use that same power for everyday Americans.  It wasn’t a very popular move ; only about 2 in 10 Americans approved of his decision, according to a poll from  The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research .

Biden commutes sentences of 1,500 prisoners, offers 39 pardons | wkyc.com