The policies the Trump administration is attacking are very much the American values advanced, albeit imperfectly, over the past 60 years
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
(excerpt)
The policies the Trump administration is attacking are very much the American values advanced, albeit imperfectly, over the past 60 years — including when former president George H.W. Bush signed the Americans with Disabilities Act into law.
Here’s how a 2024 federal report from the U.S. Government Accountability Office put it:
There should be nothing controversial about any of this. If certain policies or programs go too far, review them and fix them, but the fundamental basis for and nature of these policies began with the Civil War Amendments and were forged into modern America’s laws in the Civil Rights Era and the time since.
But now, with a handful of orders in his first two days in office, Donald Trump wants to hobble that legacy — and eliminate any ongoing efforts to help ensure a diverse workforce.
As Trump sits in the Oval Office signing these orders, he is sitting in the room where then-president Franklin D. Roosevelt was told more than 80 years ago that an executive order was needed to stop military contractors from discriminating against Black people seeking jobs.
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MAGA doesnt want a multi-cultural society. That impulse is what is behind all of what is going on now under trump.
Fucking hilarious if it wasn't so stupid
I am married to an Filipina woman who has a full blooded Filipino son from her first marriage. I took him in at 11 when I met his mom. He now is married to a Japanese woman and they have 2 Japanese/Filipino sons.
My neighbor is full blooded conservative who is married to a Vietnmaese woman, his second marriage to that nationality. He has 2 daughters from his first marriage and one from the current one.
I know of several more white Americans married to other cultures, eve, gasp, black women.
I could be mistaken (I'm not) but it looks like conservatives are far more in favor of multiculturism that most leftists.
There is a sizable portion of conservative whites who believe whites are the "real" victim of racism.
No there is not. That is delusional.
What is true however, is a sizeable number of white liberals who despise ANY minority that jumps ship from D to R.
A wise man once said everyone should be judged by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin.
That said, programs like Affirmative Action totally ignore this wise concept
Want to explain then why 'conservatives' trash people like Liz Cheney who not only has NOT jumped ship, but has retained the core conservative principles of the GOP even when the GOP itself has abandoned its roots.
No no no. You're doing it wrong.
True multiculturalism is about feeling sorry for people to whom you believe yourself superior, and then stroking your emotions by "protecting" them from people who refuse to acknowledge that superiority.
Please adjust your behavior accordingly. We will expect so see you at the next March for Diversity with your hair dyed an appropriate shade of blue.
Yeah, a true model of integrity, who went from sponsoring a federal bill that would have outlawed abortion from the moment of conception to attacking Dobbs as too extreme when Harris asked her to. Such a principled stalwart.
If that was a prominent belief Trump wouldnt be president.
Neither would have a racist plagiarizer who took showers with his daughter, and yet here we are.
A person who was willing to compromise her political career rather than kowtow to a traitor. She gave up real value to her on principle - on doing what she believed was best for the nation even at her own expense. That is integrity.
Further, Cheney remains pro-life and in support of removing Roe v Wade. (I totally disagree with her.) Her criticism of Dobbs was regarding the extreme measures that some states (e.g. Texas) have gone to as a consequence.
Your criticism is overly simplistic and basically wrong.
I don't believe those are core conservative principles. Why would anyone think they were?
I think it's an example of her completely lacking principle. She's anti-abortion when pandering to her conservative base in Wyoming, anti-Dobbs to help Harris.
Why would anyone think they were?
The stated position of the conservative party for the last 50 years or so was to overturn Roe vs Wade. Hard to argue it wasn't.
Do you think that Cheney is against the overturn of Roe v Wade?
Looks like you are just refusing to acknowledge that Cheney is pro-Dobbs but is against the extreme measures states like Texas took in the aftermath.
I have no idea what she actually thinks.
st the extreme measures states like Texas took in the aftermath.
She proposed a total ban on abortion from the moment of conception for the entire country. That's nowhere near as "extreme" as the Texas law.
Yet you ignore her putting her political career on the line to hold true to her belief that Trump is unfit for office and should be held accountable. She risked and lost her political career because of that stance after having a voting record where she supported Trump 9x% of the time.
What is it about Trump that causes 'conservatives' to toss out those who hold true to conservative principles (and integrity)? How is it that people like Cheney are the outcasts ... what the fuck has happened to the GOP with its Trump infection?
Details matter:
Cheney remains pro-life but she objects to laws that deny important care to women and intrusion into their medical records.
Yes, she went from calling for a national abortion ban from the moment of conception to getting on stage to campaign with a candidate who supports unrestricted abortion and attacked states for laws that were less restrictive than the one she proposed to help Harris out.
And yet again you dishonestly gloss over all the details to paint an inaccurate overly simplistic picture of Cheney.
Fine, Sean, you are going to ignore all facts. And everyone reading this exchange will see that clearly.
Well, I guess I can see how some people might get such a backwards delusion about the thinking that goes into empathy for those less fortunate than oneself, but that's a sad and very misguided false delusion to cling to.
The reality is, those who support multi-culturalism or, in this context specifically DEI, aren't those who feel superior towards anyone, they see themselves in the shoes of those who are being denied an equal space and equal voice in our society. Since they are able to see themselves in such circumstances, they want to help support those folk in their endeavors to feed their families, make sure they and their kids have access to the same kind of healthcare, education and job market that they have. And then you have the bitter fools who ridicule higher education, grumble at anyone else getting something they don't have and questioning anyone getting something they don't want but think they must be paying for somehow because, you know, lizard people and Jewish space lasers.
Well, it is wise and Trump is POTUS. Thus displaying the problem with the entire Trump TDS belief system.
Thank you for proving the point.
You do realize we're talking about the same folks who argue that black people are too stupid to work out how to get a photo ID.
Do they now? They see themselves in the shoes of poor white families in places like West Virginia or Oklahoma with terrible educational systems and generational poverty? What if those families are evangelical Christians? Do they still see themselves in those shoes? No?
Nonsense. If any of that were remotely true, we'd hear them talking about steps to make these people more competitive in the workplace instead of imposing artificial controls.
Well, while you were busy off not feeling superior to anyone, someone must have hacked your account and added this to your post.
it was hers to do as she wished . She took the risk and lost . I call it an underestimation of the voters she needed to remain in elected office .
2.5 yrs AFTER her loss , and people are still banging their head against the wall about her loss?
It is notable to me individually , that in all this time , she has not ran for office again , anywhere .
Correct. She knew that she was putting her political career on the line and chose to do what she believed was best for the nation even though it sucked for her personally.
That is the point.
that may be the point to you , others opinion of course vary, to some the point is she lost the election and her job and is now a footnote in history , of both the nation and the state .
ADD: mostly on the state level actually , here we dont even discuss her .
It was the point that I made in this thread!
unfortunately , yours is not the only point out there . nor can it be restricted solely to that point or any point for that matter .
if that were the case , one might as well be playing checkers or chess against a pidgeon that craps all over the board , knocks over all the pieces , and declares themself the winner while strutting around .
I made a point in this thread that Cheney demonstrated integrity by knowingly compromising her political career to do what she believed was best for the nation. She had something real to lose personally by trying to hold Trump accountable for his wrongdoing.
You agree that she knowingly risked her political career.
Do you see her risking her political career as an act of integrity or not?
You left out one of her main reasons. She’s a never Trumper. A Bush era chickenhawk and never Trumper. Ever since Trump dissed poor Jeb.
But hey, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.
if she wished to remain in elected office , i think she was stupid , so the answer would be no .
As for her doing so is not a point , it is merely an opinion really one i don't necessarily agree with of being proof or a demonstration of integrity . maybe that is why she ultimately lost her seat in congress .
a real point of fact is the voters of the state eligible , by an order of magnitude , rejected her and her actions, in the republican primary , which was their option .
Do you think people judged Trump by the content of his character ?
Cheney voted for Trump in 2020. She voted in favor of his agenda 92.9% of the time.
That is not how a "never Trumper" would behave.
“She’s a never Trumper.”
I agree. She despised trump long before 1-6. She saw the 1-6 investigation as a way to hurt trump and be the hero in the process, nothing noble about that. jmo.
You believe it was stupid for her to risk her office (her political career actually). Fine, I did not ask you if you thought she was stupid to risk her career. Her being stupid (if so) has nothing to do with integrity.
I asked you if it was an act of integrity to knowingly put her political career at risk to do what she believed was right for the nation.
What?? It is a fact that she risked her political career. It is not opinion.
Cheney voted for Trump in 2016 and in 2020. She voted in favor of his agenda 92.9% of the time.
How on Earth do you define 'never Trumper'? What makes someone a 'never Trumper' in your mind?
Cheney was gop establishment to the core. That group despised trump. Cheney was one of them. How do you know she voted for trump in ‘16 and ‘20? Is that what she said? She might have said that to stay on the good side of her constituents. How a senator votes is public knowledge. wyoming went big for trump in both elections. It makes sense she would vote with him 92.9% of the time if she wished to keep her seat.
So, she's a never Trumper who supported Trump way more often than she didn't?
Tell us how that works, exactly.
Apparently, her disguise worked so well that it even fooled her.
You’d have ask them.
That is exactly what you asked , i will simplify my answer to yes or no .
NO i do not see it that way .
Why would she publicly announce that she voted for Trump if she did not vote for Trump? What is the value to make such a statement if she was a never Trumper? What is the logic of voting 92.9% of the time with Trump if she was a never Trumper?
The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that she supported Trump until his Big Lie con job. You have nothing whatsoever to suggest otherwise. So instead, you just deny.
It is the same level of absurd denial we seem to see nowadays from Trump supporters: forget facts, forget evidence, forget logic ... just make ridiculous, irrational claims.
Why not?
Let's look at Rusty Bowers then. He was the Speaker of the Arizona House. He knowingly compromised his career to testify that Trump tried to coerce him to appoint an alternate slate of false electors for Trump. That did indeed kill his career. Was his refusal to violate the law an act of integrity? Was his testifying about this attempt to violate the law an act of integrity given the personal consequence to him?
Or does this simply mean that Speaker Bowers is a stupid man and does not reflect his personal integrity?
already answered , you just didnt like the answer or outcome . But thats not my problem is it ?
i dont follow AZ politics so dont know the man from adam , frankly , dont care either .
I would take the word of someone who actually lives in her state, follows that state’s politics, than someone who may or may not use google to declare their points and opinions the only correct ones
See 2.1.34
See 2.1.34.
apparently you have a higher opinion of establishment gop than i do.
The GoP prior to Trump had its problems but it was vastly superior to the Trump cult that has infected the GoP and turned it into a party of acute bigotry, narcissism, irresponsibility, and outrageous dishonesty.
You have to remember that MAGAites absolutely demand that American society include them, be accessible to them and fair to them. The only part of this they really have an issue with is the "diversity" part. They want it all to themselves, they don't want an America that also includes, is accessible by and tries to be fair to minorities, liberals and lgbtq Americans. MAGAites love it when they get a hand up, they love white Christian affirmative action, they love it when the government bails them out or comes to their rescue after some natural disaster washes their home down the river. The problem is when they see some person or family that doesn't look like them, speak like them, worship like they do or love like they do getting bailed out or a hand up. That's when they feel like that resource was ripped out of their pocket, that food was taken from their child's mouth, that job was supposed to go to them or someone that resembles themselves.
MAGAites are, by their very nature, monumentally selfish and self-absorbed since they worship one of the most selfish self-absorbed humans on our planet. Getting rid of DEI is all about getting rid of the "diversity" part which, to bigoted MAGAites, feels like inviting in their sworn enemies to share a meal with them and with such small brains MAGAites simply can't understand the benefits of diversity in a society. Hell, some of them are still cruising family reunions to pick up dates, diversity is not something that has been historically appreciated by certain segments of American society.
As Sheldon Cooper would say "Malarky".
I don't know where you get your information from but I have to wonder if it isn't a case of accusing others of what they believe themselves.
I stopped reading your rant after this.
In truth, it is leftists that demand society accepts off the norm groups like trannies, forcing acceptance of men in women's sports, demand not only acceptance, but embracing the gay lifestyle, and demand that we accept someone in the workforce simply because they are of a color, gender or sexual identity, and not by merit, etc.
Conservatives, or MAGAs that you try and use insultingly, have nothing on "forcing" than leftists have demanded over the past decades.
I agree. MAGAts, Trumps, and those in their camp always accuse others of the sh!t they believe and practice themselves.
As I said, MAGAites consider themselves the "norm groups" and believe society should be catering to "norm groups" instead of those they apparently consider abnormal.
All any of the minorities have ever been asking for is to be treated the SAME as a Christian conservative. gay Americans wanted to marry and enjoy all the benefits of said union under State and Federal law, just like Christian conservatives can, yet conservatives fought that with tooth and nail and would clearly roll back those protections if they could.
That's the real issue here, it's not about any group demanding MORE than any other group, it's just those groups that have been historically discriminated against asking for the same access and respect that conservatives expect. And at the moment to correct the egregious legacy of discrimination American society needed training wheel in the form of affirmative action and specific benefit programs for specific groups who have been, without a doubt, harmed for decades if not centuries from a long history of systemic discrimination. At some point we could and should have the discussion about taking the training wheels off, but that would only be appropriate when we can show that real equity has become a reality.
Idaho legislature passed a resolution last Friday calling on the Supreme Court to overturn Obergefell v. Hodges.
We have a long, hard road ahead
And all those Log Cabin Republicans that voted for him may actually have their eyes open
SOCIETY determines what is considered a normal group, not random people on the internet that think everyone who thinks they are ducks are a normal group.
"All any of the minorities have ever been asking for is to be treated the SAME as a Christian conservative. gay Americans wanted to marry and enjoy all the benefits of said union under State and Federal law, just like Christian conservatives can"
Absolutely no one is saying these people cannot do what you listed. What society does NOT want is a very small minority of people demanding that we not only accept their lifestyle, but that we embrace it and celebrate it. That is a recipe for these groups to be shunned and ridiculed.
"yet conservatives fought that with tooth and nail and would clearly roll back those protections if they could."
Wrong
The rest just reiterates what I posted above. No one is trying to keep people from being who they are. Ot is about demands that a "normal" society does not agree with.
It could change over time, but to insist people change their beliefs overnight will get them no where.
If MAGA was a majority of the American people Trump would have won by a lot more than 1 percent.
Dems lost the house, they lost the senate and they lost the executive. A clean sweep.
Republicans ran the table thanks to the clusterfuck that was last four years and the people that supported it.
They did more to get Trump elected than the people who voted for him.
Congrats.
It is always amusing when progressives try to explain what another group wants or thinks. 95% of the time they are flat out wrong. This is one of those times,
Then illustrate where they are wrong instead of just declaring as if your declarations alone are to be taken as fact. Make your case.
Once they prove the claim they made.
The truth is, many if not most of the conservatives on this site are unprepared and borderline incompetent.
Any other assessment is a farce.
Rarely do I see most Trump supporters actually defend their claims. Mostly the response is deflection, a nuh-uh, or some equally lame and thoughtless tactic.
While this is understandable in a sense since they are trying to defend Trump ... defending the indefensible ... it seems to me that it would be better to NOT say anything rather than make a ridiculous 'argument'.
Then I am sure you can support your claim. Or are you just doing what you accuse others of doing?
We defend our claims with every post you make, however, we can't help it when some declare their OPINIONS as facts and call our OPINIONS delusional and ridiculous.
Yep, it’s Groundhog Day in here, every day.
Your kid digs up a cat turd in the sandbox and some of our friends on the left will try to convince them it’s a Tootsie-Roll.
SOSDD
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And they will repeat that it is a tootsie roll over and over, and when you show them definitive proof that it is cat shit, they will insult you and then eat it to prove they are right, and then blame trump for making tootsie rolls taste like shit.
Isn't what would be referred to as narcissist.
I could swear there is someone that claims Trump is that. Self awareness is nil.
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A color-blind society of shared beliefs would be an American value.
Multi-culturalism is not.
What are you afraid of?
Why isn’t multi-culturalism not a American value, cuz it’s not all white folks running around bragging about themselves?
Must be scary for you.
It is nothing less than an effort to erase as much progress as possible achieved in making workplaces safer and more equitable for people of color; for women; for LGBTQ people; and, somehow, for people with accessibility needs required under federal law."
It is no such thing, and you can't provide any credible facts to the contrary. Show some real evidence instead of expressing your feelings. From what I have seen the workplace and society as a whole are about as diverse as they have ever been, despite the progressives attempts to make parents and women irrelevant. Merit and hard work are still the way to get ahead, not lowering standards for those of lesser talents and skills.
I think you are missing the point of DEIA, as well as the Acts and laws enacted in the past.
If things were truly merit and hard-work based, there would not have been need for Civil Rights Act, Affirmative Action, utilizing Plessy for desegregating schools, the Dred Scott case... In all of these instances, the acts, actions, suits were needed to end the so-called "separate but equal", "not good enough, not smart enough" notions of the white, privileged class against all non-whites and women.
And you will find in most instances, the non-white was not only just as if not more qualified but harder working, more disciplined and took on and completed more tasks than their white counterpart, all while making less pay and putting up with uncalled for abuses.
But you keep believing Trump, the MAGAts, Proud Boys and other anti-non-white propagandists.
And you keep believing the racists. democrats and klansmen that segments of our society are inferior based on no other criteria than the color of their skin.
No, I think for myself, so don't assume I listen to any of the groups...,or Trump.
At one time the need for these laws and programs and Acts was necessary.
That's not true today, and there is no credible evidence to the contrary.
DEI is systematic racism. Either you believe the government should discriminate on the basis of race or you don't. If, like Jim Crow Democrats, you believe race should dictate how laws and government programs operate, than DEI is for you.
It seems like 80 years ago or so FDR mandated that blacks be given jobs with war production contractors. Was that racism ? According to your definition it was.
80 years ago or so, Democrats ran the Clan. Yep, having fun with going back decades ….
What was the order John, I'm not familiar with it. Did FDR order that contractors should not discriminate against blacks when hiring, or that contractors should only hire blacks?
Was it this one?
Very anti-DEI. It's Trumpian.
You said that giving preference to blacks and other minorities is racism.
What if only whites merited those jobs? Wasn't Roosevelt being racist? When he said all ethnicities must be represented in war production industries he was sabotaging the argument of merit only.
id that giving preference to blacks and other minorities is racism.
Where's the preference? The order requires equality. "There shall be no discrimination in the employment of workers in defense industries and in Government, because of race, creed, color, or national origin." is the opposite of DEI.
It wasn't only just Democrats. Jim Crow, just like that Ku Klux Klan, was of, by and for/enjoyed/enforced by Dems and Repubs alike.
So, there's been no progress in 60 years? Seems like the lawfare lawyers have failed to do their jobs. Maybe it's time to fire 'em.
The whole DEI nonsense seems like a Hail Mary effort to save something that society doesn't need any longer. Social activism has devolved into a bizarre search for divisive issues that can be blown out of proportion.
In today's America, a Black individual is much safer in an all white neighborhood than an all Black neighborhood. That's what civil rights lawfare gave society. Lawyers crying over the loss of easy money doesn't justify continuing civil rights lawfare.
In today's America, a Black individual is much safer in an all white neighborhood than an all Black neighborhood
That's some of the funniest sh!t I'd read today.
Can you dispute it or refute it.
[✘] race is NOT a job qualification, Gender is NOT a job qualification and sexual orientation is NOT a job qualification. I can't make it any simpler than that,[✘]