Trump wants $500B in mineral rights to help Ukraine. Give it to him
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Trump wants $500B in mineral rights to help Ukraine. Give it to him
by kosDaily Kos Staff 3-3 minutes
Vladimir Putin had a golden opportunity with President Donald Trump back in the White House, but for whatever reason (maybe he didn’t kiss Trump’s ass enough?) things have gone awry. That doesn’t mean that Ukraine is out of the woods, however,
But it almost is.
“I told [Ukraine] that I want the equivalent like $500B worth of rare earth,” Trump said in an interview with Fox News . “And they've essentially agreed to do that so at least we don’t feel stupid. Otherwise, we're stupid. I said to them we have to—we have to get something. We can’t continue to pay this money.”
This is morally repugnant—like everything else coming out of Trump’s mouth—but it’s an easy “yes” for Ukraine. And that’s because, if Trump wants access to these minerals, he’ll have to give Ukraine the means to get their land back.
Check out this map of Ukraine’s mineral reserves:
Compare that to the current map of Russian-controlled territory:
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As you can see, the areas richest in mineral deposits—the Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine (Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts) and Crimea—are held by Russia. That’s no accident. It is literally the reason Russia invaded those regions in 2014. And it’s also no coincidence that the 2022 invasion was aimed at taking the rest of Eastern Ukraine, which is also rich in mineral deposits—Zaporizhzhia, Kharkiv, and Sumi—while leaving a rump and relatively mineral-free Ukrainian state in the West.
There is around $15 trillion of mineral wealth to exploit post war, and Ukraine will need it to rebuild and develop. Trump just needs to provide $500 billion in weapons, as well as permission to wage the war as Ukraine sees fit, without all of the hobbling restrictions with which the Biden administration saddled Ukraine.
So send Ukraine all of the Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, Abrams tanks, F-16s, and Tomahawk cruise missiles. Plus, Trump is crazy enough that Putin really has to be careful with his usual nuclear bluster. It worked on the over-cautious Joe Biden, but Trump is immune to any logic or reason.
Promise Trump a big statue in the middle of Kyiv and the rights to $500 billion in mineral wealth, and Ukraine will have itself an open weapons spigot.
Then Ukraine can renege on all of that once it wins the war. After all, that’s the Trump way of doing business.
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I like that. Promise Trump something and then later deny ever saying it.
Not the Daily Kos!
I will simply say i was wondering when the fact that Ukraine has a good deposit of rare earth minerals would come out .
seems to me to actually reset the world order of things in a way , and explains a lot of things if one thinks outside the box .
and frankly , i didnt know just how much was in Ukraine myself until about 2 months ago .
It does explain a lot. I never bought the bullshit that Putin invaded Ukraine because the people are Russian.
My thought ? ukraine was once part of the old USSR, think moscow didnt know what was were ?
the level of tech at that time , maybe made it like , what do we do with this ? now they know what can be done with it because of advancements .
and thats just on the surface looking at it .
The ignorance of the public is astounding. The mineral reserves of Ukraine are miniscule compared to those of the US. There is nothing Ukraine has that the US needs. Rare earth minerals ain't rare, folks. They're dilute but found almost everywhere. New York City could set up a desalination plant and recover rare earth minerals and lithium. The problem with extracting and refining dilute minerals is that the process is energy intensive. But that industrial use of energy would produce something of value for society and would actually be less energy hungry than cryptocurrency mining that produces absolutely nothing of any value. The choice should be a no-brainer but the financial wizards in the US always make the wrong choices.
Too bad Al Gore and Newt Gingrich dismantled and eliminated the Federal governments infrastructure to support mining and heavy industry in the US. Now we are dependent on the likes of Ukraine to save our commercial asses. That's correct, Bill Clinton killed any chance the US had for competing in the global marketplace. The wet dreams held dear by green geeks and social liberals are coming to fruition. Savor the moment because this is the best of times, everything goes downhill from here.
Odd that you did not phrase this as the ignorance of Trump is astounding since this is his idea.
Trump is unnecessarily growing a serious trade war with China before we have viable alternatives. This is the second reason you should be criticizing the buffoon in chief rather than the American public.
We are highly dependent on China for rare Earth elements BECAUSE we have no current means to extract them. So until we have the means, it does not matter what is potentially available to us domestically. Similarly, there is no extraction infrastructure in Ukraine so we would need to develop that there.
It is ridiculous for you to presume that the average citizen will be aware of the details of rare Earth minerals and the extraction process. So there is nothing on which to be astounded. However, the PotUS has plenty of resources and before he pursues mineral rights all the way over in Ukraine he should have known what it would take to extract and ship them and the availability of same in the USA.
Criticize Trump, not the average Joe running his own life.
We did have the means. Al Gore and Newt Gingrich dismantled the government infrastructure to support those industries. A majority aspect of the Clinton policies was to create a regulatory environment that increased the difficulty of mining and manufacturing in the United States. We were all going to live on stock dividends.
When heavy industry played a larger role in the US economy, providing jobs and products, the people weren't as ignorant of mining, refining, and manufacturing activities. The industrial aspects of our society received considerable attention in elementary school books of that time. When heavy industry was the lifeblood of communities, the population was naturally more informed about the details because their livelihoods depended upon it. All of that was dismantled after Ronald Reagan was inaugurated.
Trump is trying to find something of value in Ukraine to justify US support. Not long ago, people would have understood that owning mineral rights doesn't have any real value, only potential value. Ukraine wouldn't allow the US to develop those mineral rights without decades of litigation because it would be infringing upon Ukraine's sovereignty. That seems to be a big deal.
Trump is not the idiot here. Trump is trying to justify continuing US support for Ukraine. But the US public is too ignorant to realize that Trump is actually trading the support for nothing of value.
Irrelevant. I stated that we do not currently have the means. That is true.
The average citizen does not and likely will never be knowledgeable about this subject matter. Good grief man do you not pay attention? Trump was just elected largely because he was going to lower prices while promising to wield tariffs. If the average citizen does not even understand something as basic as how prices are established in our market, why would you expect them to be so knowledgeable about rare Earth elements?
Yeah, we know. Good for him. I agree that Ukraine should be paying back the USA over time when it is able to do so.
You called the American people ignorant (astoundingly). No way you can justify that and exclude Trump who has near infinite resources compared to the average citizen and whose job it is to know about these matters before he makes a deal.
Wasn't that long ago the public understood 'mineral rights'. Wasn't that long ago the public was well informed about industrial underpinnings of the economy and was ignorant of financial maneuvering. Shutting down regional and state run stock exchanges was justified by public ignorance. Thomas Edison was a public hero, J.P. Morgan only aroused jealousy.
Trump's big promise was to secure the border and put an end to favoritism of illegal immigration. Trump promised to end DEI and CRT. Trump promised to clean out the swamp of the 'Deep State'. Trump promised to end free trade and support fair trade; tariffs were a highly visible and important part of that promise. Trump promised to remove the parasites on the US taxpayer by shrinking or eliminating foreign aid that entangled the US in brush wars and political fights that the US could not control.
I've always contended that Trump was a clown, a buffoon who could not string three words together into a coherent thought. Trump displays a child-like mastery of transactional skills. Trump bargains like a child. And that's why the US must always get something out of any deal. A four or five year old child is not altruist or benevolent and often complain about being cheated.
Complaining about a true fact won't alter its import. No more proof is need of people's ignorance than the flying of Ukrainian flags or wearing of Palestinian keffiyeh. When the American people elevate the human rights of terrorists above the human rights of their own unborn then how else should they be described?
You have an unrealistic expectation of what the average citizen does and should know.
Rightly so.
The astounding ignorance would be Trump's. Again, your expectation of the detailed knowledge held by the average American is off base.
The pubic elected Trump. So, your argument calls the pubic ignorant in a passive aggressive manner. Some have plainly stated they have been astounded that the pubic was so ignorant that they elected Trump.
Doesn't Trump's 2nd term prove, beyond doubt, that the American public is ignorant? That's the argument you are making. How else to explain why a knowledgeable public would elect Trump?
The public is much less informed about mining and industry than they were informed about Trump. As I stated that wasn't true in the not-so-distant past when mining and industry played a much larger role in the US economy.
A plurality of the public elected Trump. We have over 230 million eligible voters. Trump got 77.3 million votes. He was elected because of the acts of about 33% of the eligible voters.
So, you are wrong. Also, I do not hold that all Trump voters are ignorant. (My best friend likely voted for Trump and I happen to know he is an informed, intelligent person.) Rather, I hold that voting for Trump was an irresponsible, irrational and unpatriotic act.
Finally, you are deflecting. Why?
No. See above. Also, you continue to deflect.
How did you calculate that? Let's see your math.
There is a common misconception that the U.S. has no Rare Earth Mineral deposits. But actualy we do have some.
As a stock market trader I discovered that a while ago. Although there are problems with extraction, and at the time I discovered that I bought just a little of the stock as a speculation:
MP Materials Corp. , together with its subsidiaries, produces rare earth materials. The company owns and operates the Mountain Pass Rare Earth mine and processing facility in North America. It holds the mineral rights to the Mountain Pass mine and surrounding areas, as well as intellectual property rights related to the processing and development of rare earth minerals. The company was founded in 2017 and is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada.
At the time I bought the stock the mine was not yet operating.
I recently bought a little more, and to manage the risk (and generate a little income as well) I sold covered calls.
A bit off topic perhaps but I just mentioned it as it seemed somewhat relevant.
P.S: Just because I mentioned the stock (stock symbol MP) does not mean I recommend buying any. In fact IMO if anyone has any money to invest there are several much better places to put money. But that's another topic.
What bothers me is that Trump overplays his hand with China. China is a critical supplier of actual rare Earth elements that we cannot realistically source elsewhere at the levels we consume them. It is not as though China is unaware of this fact.
They are the world's 2nd largest supplier of manganese, have the 9th largest reserves of iron ore, are the largest producer of titanium in Europe, hold 20% of global graphite production, and have huge reserves of lithium.
It's not exactly insignificant.
Trump stated: “I told [Ukraine] that I want the equivalent like $500B worth of rare earth,”
Manganese, iron ore, titanium, graphite, and lithium are not rare Earth elements.
These are valuable so I think we would be better served if Trump had actually demanded raw materials of value to us — especially those that Ukraine has extant infrastructure to deliver.
Surely we haven't started taking Trump literally.
Faux obtuseness again.
I am not taking Trump literally, I noted what he said. You can invent your own fantasy about what he 'really meant to say' and talk about that, but that is rather pointless.
The actual 'agreement' (if one emerges) will likely be more sensible since there is a halfway decent chance it will be drawn up by people who know more than Trump.
But what Trump said just shows again that he does not know what he is talking about.
Conceding already, I see.
You just did.
Using the literal words he said and then complaining that he didn't use other words.
Look, I'm not really interested in 300 posts of you denying you've done this thing we've all just obviously seen you do while you insult people, move the goalposts, desperately try to exclude enough topics that the point becomes narrow enough for you to claim victory, refuse to admit you agree even when you've just stated your agreement, and campaign that you hyper-idealistic view is valid.
You constantly say that no one should take Trump literally. Is he mentally a child that everyone has to cater to and make excuses for? I thought he was supposed to be the president of the United States.
Again with the faux obtuseness.
Real simple. Trump made a statement. That statement was stupid.
You have no rebuttal so you engage in juvenile games. And on top of that you do a fine job of projection ... accusing me of the dishonest tactics you have been employing.
Trump stated: “I told [Ukraine] that I want the equivalent like $500B worth of rare earth,”
Manganese, iron ore, titanium, graphite, and lithium are not rare Earth elements.
These are valuable so I think we would be better served if Trump had actually demanded raw materials of value to us — especially those that Ukraine has extant infrastructure to deliver.
Instead of dealing with my point, you resort to obnoxious tactics.
Correct. Not sure how we can possibly disagree about that, given the thousands of times you've called him a liar. He is not a man you take at his word, and most certainly not a man you should take literally.
There is possibly an argument to be made there. Personally, I'd probably go with "he's a spoiled rich brat who has never experience consequences for what he says, so he has no filters and spouts shite all the time."
That's who we elected.
Personally, I voted for the gay libertarian.
Again with the inability to hold a civil discussion.
Which you took literally enough to dissect.
Probably. And taking him literally is stupid. You should stop that.
You're now highlighting specific words.... while claiming you're not taking him literally.....
When I say he's a liar I mean he's a liar when you say he's a liar you mean don't take him literally
Why should the US supply our treasure to Ukraine and not expect something in return?
You are perpetuating juvenile rhetoric rather than deal with what I wrote. You apparently would rather engage in a slap fight instead of respond logically and honestly to my posts.
Take breath. Compose yourself. Formulate a thoughtful rebuttal.
Not at all.
Those are two separate things with a common symptom.
He absolutely lies. No question. He also just runs off at the mouth with anything from mildly inaccurate statements to complete nonsense. That's different from lying. He does that in addition to, not instead of.... lying.
Regardless, anybody who believes him literally is a moron.
That's a valid question, and I think there are points on both sides. We're basically talking about whether we should be giving them aid or selling them weapons, or some combination of the two, or staying out of it completely.
I'm not sure I have a firm view on that. It would seem like there are a lot of important factors at work here (US national security implications, etc.), and I don't claim to understand them all well enough to get committed in one direction or the other.
I'm dealing with exactly what you wrote. Get happy with it or move on.
First of all, that is not entirely true. When Trump says he wants to impose more tariffs, that is certainly believable. Considering that to be a realistic likelihood is not the reasoning of a moron. On the flip side, you might be thinking of examples such as believing that Trump was going to lower our prices, cut energy costs by 50%, stop the Ukraine war with a phone call, etc.
Also, being critical of things that Trump says is not the same as believing what he says. Your comments seem to not make this distinction.
Correct.
And of course neither Gold nor Silver are "Rare Earth Minerals"?
And of course one thing a smart investor/trader would do before investing (in anything) is consider not only possible rewards but also risks. I personally would be quite hesitant to invest in anything in an active war zone!
(For example you might be able to get the same minerals, etc from less risky areas...)
And IMO possible investments to avoid would be investing in anything in the Ukraine and surrounding areas, as well as lookijg for investments in building luxury hotels in Gaza.
(But that's just me . . . )
Neither does printing paper money-- you can't survive by eating $100 bills!
So what actually determines the values of...anything? In a capitalist society, the real value of anything is the price that a seller and buyer agree upon.
(And it fluctuates constantly....)
Correct. Simply printing paper money does not produce anything of value.
For a medium of exchange with floating value (unbacked paper money), the value is determined by competition between buyers for goods in a marketplace. A supplier setting an arbitrary price (based on cost factors) can be overwhelmed by competition between buyers in a marketplace. For necessities the buyer can also find alternatives or resort to simple theft. (That's why monopolies have an adverse impact on the stability of society. Price gouging results in more crime. As an example, that can be seen with pirated copies of copyrighted material as a lower price alternative.)
Government can step in and regulate the marketplace. But that is actually regulation of competition between buyers. Price controls, as an example, reduces inflation when there are shortages. But, as we have seen, those price controls don't address the shortages and impedes investments to increase supply.
Consumers are the regulating influence in a market based economy. In an open market, consumers set prices for goods and services through competition (the same way the stock market works). And that competition also determines the value of a medium of exchange that is not backed by anything of intrinsic value, like a metal reserve.
Didn't the mental midgets of geopolitical planning understand that Donbas was where the heavy industry of Ukraine was located? Didn't these intellectual idiots understand that Russia was the largest and most important trading partner for the Donbas region of Ukraine? The steel produced in Mariupol could be shipped a few hundred miles to Russia - or - a few thousand miles to European markets. Why is preferring to trade with the EU such an obvious choice?
Ukraine joining the EU would be stupid since Ukraine is located on the ass-end of Europe. Ukraine's access to global markets is controlled by Turkey (who, no doubt, would hold Ukraine hostage politically). We've already seen how the EU responded to Ukraine flooding it's exports into Europe. The military brasshats are pushing for accession of Ukraine to defend against a closet monster that scares the epaulettes off them. A defense against the Russian bogeyman is the only thing Ukraine can offer the west.
Ukraine has never been and will never be an ally of the United States. US support for Ukraine is just another way to give the EU and Europe access to US taxpayers. We don't need these parasites to run up our national debt.
It can be a de facto ally without having to be an actual member of NATO. (if its interests coincide with our interests.....)
Trump got impeached once already for trying to blackmail Ukraine...