Who was the first to live in what is now Israel, Jews or Arabs?
Who was the first to live in what is now Israel, Jews or Arabs?
On the face it, that’s a ridiculous question. Let’s not mince words here.
Not a single human being who has studied history, historical time sequences, the evolution of languages, or religious traditions has a moments hesitation in answering that. It is in no way disputed, or disputable in any serious academic debate.
Disputes arise solely from animosity toward Israel and the Jewish people. There is an industry, well funded to perpetuate and spread myths, half truths, outrageous unfounded accusations. Sometimes even remanufactured, updated classic antiSemitic canards, such as the blood libel. Or updated versions of of the “protocol of the learned elders of Zion”.
Here would be an example of a more relevant question in my opinion, in determining international rights, indigenous peoples determination, and the various questions arising from the League of Nations first legally binding international treaty.
Effectively altering the population demographic of the region, in an inalterable internationally reconciled legal perspective.
Israel, the Jewish people were last.
Whoever was first, they no longer exist. so what does it matter? What does it even mean?
Being last, is what really matters. Israel, and the Jewish people, they are the “Last” surviving remnants of the numerous, individual ancient peoples cultural groupings. Who have not perished, who in fact flourished. They continue to do so. The Jewish peoples are the only ones who have a real valid historical claim . Archeology does not dispute it. In any way at all. In point of fact, It confirms it.
Then there is Israel’s historically well documented presence in that land. Easily confirmed from independent sources spanning various historical time frames, written in Assyrian, Persian, Babylonian, Greek and Roman sources.
What does any other competition, or claimant have to the land ? Other than the ever popular and widely accepted delusions? I mean really!
The Israeli’s have out lasted them all. The other peoples cultures vanished, swallowed whole by more successful cultural traditions marching over them, replacing them. By either obliterating them completely, or assimilating them totally into a new peoples group.
Arabs/Islam have been trying to claim Jewish religious traditions, Prophets, dietary habits and now the land. Tell them to…how do I put this gently…. “Bugger off with dumb that shit why don’t ya?
Claiming evidence is not the same has being able to actually produce evidence. Then mention that in a thousand years or so, you, my “Arab” cousins may very well become non-existent too. Because you are a religious construct. Not a naturally occurring, indigenous peoples spontaneous culturally altering one.
Somebody with a knowledge of Islam, may be so unkind, as to point out the words of your prophet, actually did in fact predict it.
- It is narrated on the authority of Ibn 'Umar ('Abdullah b. 'Umar) that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) observed:
- Verily Islam started as something strange and it would again revert (to its old position) of being strange just as it started, and it would recede between the two mosques just as the serpent crawls back into its hole.
Something to seriously consider. Where it not for the indigenous Jewish peoples religious traditions arising from, and within that area. First Christians and then Islamic religious beliefs would not exist in any way that we as modern humans could understand them. If they existed now at all. It’s far more likely they, neither of them could have been formed at all. I’m not a theologian, I don’t have a clue about that. But I’d love to see an attempt at a serious answer to that question. Among many of the questions that should be asked. Such as …..How did North Africa, become Arab North Africa?
Assyrians, are not Arab, or they never were considered that, before Islam’s arrival. Ask a “Coptic” Christian in Egypt, if he is an Arab. Iraqi’s / Babylonian’s were never historically Arabs either.
But Jews have been Jews for thousands of years. No matter where they were forced to live. They managed to maintained their cultural traditions, as well as their religious heritage. When it was made legal by international authorities, League of Nations, United Nations, to return and claim their ancestral homeland, they did, as soon as feasible.
Tell your Arab cousins you understand reality is a hard pill to swallow, deleted ToS and CoC [ph]
But till they got a shred of real evidence. Anything at all, that will pass even the simplest cursory examination….tell them to just go away, your delusions are tiresome.
Nothing else has worked in well over seventy years. (Longer if we include allah’s misogynistic messenger boy’s Theocratic delusions) You might try the admittedly harsh, unforgiving reality of the situation. Perhaps the truthful, admittedly unkind, often times purposefully offensive, argumentative reasoning of an Irish Cynic? Who knows it may help?
What do ya got to lose? Really, Israel has faced terrorism, anti-Semitism, irrational hot blooded hatred, and ice clod academic antipathy toward teaching the irrefutable historical truth of humanity’s shared common reality. It’s an easily verifiable historical reality at that!
Disputes arise solely from animosity toward Israel and the Jewish people. There is an industry, well funded to perpetuate and spread myths, half truths, outrageous unfounded accusations.
True.
And much of the Big Money funding anti-Israel propaganda is Big Oil.
WHY?
Because they want to stay in the good graces of the world's major producing countries-- many of whom are Arab countries!
Hey, good to see ya. Thank you for the comment. Some people with claimed PhD degrees and history degrees, are pissing me off. I want to see them try to refute me. Or how they try. I figured down voting it was easier!
We don't have down votes here. No worries.
Sorry I saved it for the other forum I on my first two attempts at challenging things were deleted. I did not know how to keep them. I’m still figuring out how things work around there. I know its going to pass over there. Even with the part you removed. Ya can’t believe what the antisemite get away with. What I said about urine is well within their rules. Sorry if I knew I would have deleted it myself.
Kpr,
I do remember what the antisemite got away with on NV. I was there right along with you. They would hide their hate in their hatred of Israel and would twist the facts to their own liking. I mean that is what BDS is, right?
The past history is all there for all to seek if they are interested. Sadly most people do not look past a dogma that has appealed to them. Much of it cleverly coming out of radicalization in the Muslim world.
Israel, with all its faults, is a tiny country that has had continuous Jewish community. It is also the only state that has both Arab Muslims and Jews in its government. In every other middle eastern country, Jews have been killed or removed. Only recently are there Arab nations that are willing to have relations with Israel. As long as it is beneficial to them, that allegiance will continue.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Old Arab saying.
Only recently are there Arab nations that are willing to have relations with Israel. As long as it is beneficial to them, that allegiance will continue.
In Arab culture, there always has to be an "enemy". For some time, the preferred scapegoat for the terrible state of Arab countries (and Iran) was Israel. The only "politically correct" thing that Arab leaders could say about Israel was negative.
But then the current totalitarian rulers of Iran (Shia) stepped up the rhetoric against Arab countries (Sunni).
One result was that Sunni Arab Gulf states started to fear an attack by Iran's nutso rulers! In fact, they started realizing that they had something in common with Israel-- the fear of being attacked by Iran.
Yes, it very much like the old bad newsvine.
The rules are strange, I have had comments that in no way thought objectionable, removed. Then other comments that I made very objectionable approved. The fake history I read all the time there, is unbelievably stupid and poorly done.
That is ok. I mean its more ridiculous than many of the things I’ve written trying to be ridiculous.
I thought that’s my last try to play somewhat fair. up here at newstalkers
I’m thinking of delving into producing my own fake history.
Phillestines text and writing. There is a gold mind there. I’ve had it in the back of my head from back on the newsvine.
It’s a great premise. But real difficult to pull off easily. I thought about it recently more than a sane human should.
But there’s way less to do in the winter here , and it sure will challenge my intellect to get random people with an IQ over sixty to believe it long enough, to be interested where all that effort is going.
The nonsensical offensive cultural traditions they will have are easy.
Greek pagan gods are not a problem. Cronus sun of Gaia, castrater of his father Uranus.
will work well from the perspective of innersectional concepts exploring trans- gender oppression, relating with the oppression of modern Arabs. Through critical theory. I’m going to tell them to embrace their heritage it nothing to be ashamed of! thats just the start.
how to get there is my problem. LOL
That is the way I see it. I guess prosperity and money win out for now.
I read an article that a lot of people from Israel vacation in Dubai.
It's true and for quite a while now. The UAE is not as fundie as many other countries in the ME so they have had unofficial relations with Israel, as does even Saudi Arabia.
They all have one thing in common. They all fear and hate Iran.
The US did the world no favor when we took out Sadam. It ruined the balance of power there.
kpr37: In addition to the issues you've raised, there's something else about this site that's useful to know. If you seed an article, there's one thing you have to do to make sure people actually notice it!
Its pretty simple-- after seeding it, post at least one comment.
I was try to have nobody notice it. I just wanted to resubmit it when humans are moderating. I had some good responses vanish because I did know how it operates. I’m doing this just cause a dude claiming a PhD in history keep saying my source from MIT And Stanford, and Boston university were no good. Called them Zionist hasbta? Spelling. Called me a pagan religious extremist
I forgot who told me on newsvine when I complained about nonsense, to fight fire with fire.
I blame them for my obviously absurd Nabaka narratives and “super secret Zionist scientists” cartoonish stories. among many others.
Hasbara. Public relations campaign attempting to counter anti_Israel propaganda.
This Iphone is killing me. I got no spellcheck, no gramerly thing. And auto correct can produce surreal combinations of words. I can not what I typing now. This happens some time.
when I hit done I saw it was pretty close to what I thought was there. I’m terrible at technology. I left it as it was
You can always correct anything after you post it, up to 1 hour, so keep that in mind.
Thank you I had forgotten that.
Been reading the things I will be competing with. It’s real discouraging, there is no effort at all. I just read an Answer that Abraham had to get permission from the Canaanite Palestinian king in 5000bc to settle there with the Israeli people. It got lots of votes and compliments. Not single question asked where that came from.lol
Intellectual curiosity can be lacking. I have never understood that.
I do have some help, one of the navy veterans I fish with all the time volunteered to help. He’s going to join the site and confirm remembering a museum exhibit. Or pbs special. He is sure now Yankees are crazy, can’t believe I talked about it all throughout our morning tea. And am putting real effort into it. He said he would join an yell at them and call em names if that’s what I want. Lol
I knew how difficult it was. That’s why I never tried it at newsvine. Lol.
This is strange. I thought I posted a comment here a little while ago, and now it's gone. Of course I realize that all the original comments have been deleted, the ones from years ago. In fact the original article has been reposted to be up to date. Mysterious happenings.
Hi Buzz, great to see somebody here that I know and they know me. !!!
I just read that you have the article that was here. Then got deletedI by my mistake? O sure hope so.
ive been trying to retrieve that article since I hit the wrong thing and puff, gone just like that. I can’t tell you how long that one
took. I’ll just say longer than I’ll ever admit. Lol
if you do have the “my intellectual pimp hand” article please keep it safe. I’ve still got crazy problems with this iPhone. The more places I ask for help, the worse it seems to get. If I didn’t know better I’d swear it’s some type of torture for old articles of mine coming back to haunt me. This is the craziest shit I’ve ever experienced and it doesn’t seem like it is going to end anytime soon.
honesty, the constant death threats and personal attacks from back in the newsvine time it’s way preferable to this, what ever this is. I been saying it’s got to go away sooner or later, but it doesn’t?!?
I would love for one of them tec boys to try to decipher one of my articles written in an early prosaic style using modal logic! But I’m not that cruel, lol
Modal Type Theory
it’s ok Buzz you’re not alone. I see the most confusing things myself constantly.